Swine Flu Vaccine - Pandemrix or Celvapan Jab - yes or no?

[Luella123]

I appear to be going against the grain here but personally I am grateful that these companies are producing seasonal flu vaccines every year that save thousands of lives. Of course they make money from it, they are businesses after all. Maybe if over the decades there had been major side effects from these vaccines I would think differently. I think sometimes we forget how serious flu can be, not being patronising, I didn't realise until recently just how deadly the past flu pandemics were and I welcome any advances in medicine that can prevent that from happening again. However, for those who are anti- vaccines I respect your views, just trying to provide some balance and a different angle.

 

[EternalRose]

I appear to be going against the grain here but personally I am grateful that these companies are producing seasonal flu vaccines every year that save thousands of lives. Of course they make money from it, they are businesses after all. Maybe if over the decades there had been major side effects from these vaccines I would think differently. I think sometimes we forget how serious flu can be, not being patronising, I didn't realise until recently just how deadly the past flu pandemics were and I welcome any advances in medicine that can prevent that from happening again. However, for those who are anti- vaccines I respect your views, just trying to provide some balance and a different angle.

I agree with your comments hun, I never said I was anti - vaccines though. I am sceptical about this one though but im worried like everyone else. I was just offering a few different standpoints it is a public forum after all.

 

[Mervs Mum]

You're not going against the grain Luella. If you read further back in the thread, it's been pretty balanced for and against I'm pro vaccination but wont be having this one for my own reasons. I've weighed things up and it's not worth it to be for various reasons. I took my 1 yr old to have her 12 month vax last week and my 15 yr old DD just had the HPV jab this week. I think you can see both sides if you're open minded and you sound pretty sensible It's business but they save lives.

 

[Mervs Mum]

2bananas

 

[StirCrazy]

Thread re-opened.

Lets keep it civil

 

[Bee26]

Personally Im not having the jab...My reason is that lots of people die from the normal flu every year, we just dont hear about them much. There was expected to be 750,000 deaths from swine flu this winter...and we are nowhere near heading for that amount and apparantly its slowing. I know when it gets colder things may change but i dont think its the pandemic everyone was expecting. I work with people and prob am at higher risk but i just dont feel I want to put something in my body that im not fully aware of the implications in the future for my child. Will we have the opportunity to have it further down the line should we chage our minds does anyone know?? If the pandemic does happen?

 

[CocoaOne]

I appear to be going against the grain here but personally I am grateful that these companies are producing seasonal flu vaccines every year that save thousands of lives. Of course they make money from it, they are businesses after all......and I welcome any advances in medicine that can prevent that from happening again. However, for those who are anti- vaccines I respect your views, just trying to provide some balance and a different angle.

Good point Luella. What worries me about these companies are how they can hold the government to ransom. With certain drugs they produce it can be like a licence to print money. Take the Liver Cancer drug for example..... it costs £3000 a week per patient, so NICE have said it's to expensive to approve on the NHS. I agree with this decision (don't want to start a row over this though!) but when drug companies make profits into the billions, how can they jusify charging such an insane amount? It's because they've got a patent on a drug and they know noone else can make it.

Not really related to swine flu vacs, but the drug companies make me mad!

 

[CocoaOne]

Will we have the opportunity to have it further down the line should we chage our minds does anyone know?? If the pandemic does happen?

I worry about this. Theoretically the government have got enough to vaccinate everyone - so why have they said we should get it sooner rather than later in case stocks run out?
personally, I'd like to wait a bit longer to see how the virus spreads in the colder months, but what if it gets to January and they stop the vaccinations? So many questions!

 

[Luella123]

It does appear surgeries are getting deliveries in batches and all at different times. Some haven't even recieved any yet. I think they have ordered enough for everyone but the issue is when the deliveries are. I see under 5's are next in line but they are saying it will be the end of Dec before they are called. So if people do change their minds there may be a delay in getting the vaccine? I agree it would be good if the government would clarify this!

 

[JessiHD]

You're not going against the grain Luella. If you read further back in the thread, it's been pretty balanced for and against I'm pro vaccination but wont be having this one for my own reasons. I've weighed things up and it's not worth it to be for various reasons. I took my 1 yr old to have her 12 month vax last week and my 15 yr old DD just had the HPV jab this week. I think you can see both sides if you're open minded and you sound pretty sensible It's business but they save lives.

We are singing from the same hymn sheet!

 

[AimeeM]

I would think that the shortage originally was caused by the short time scale they had to mass produce the jab before a pandemic took hold which leads to priority groups given it first.
Time is moving on, more time to produce more jabs so the problem of there 'not being enough' should be solved.
Just because some people want to turn it down now should not mean they can not request it is the future as i'd have thought more supplies will be being produced, enough to cover everyone and more.

 

[gem_]

It does seem positive that the number of new swine flu cases are falling and I don't think anyone should feel pressured into having the jab now incase supplies run out. Just because you refuse it now doesn't mean you can't change your mind later if the number of cases start rising again. You would think they would have enough vaccines if they are extending the vaccine programme to under fives. My only concern about doing that is that it does take a few weeks after having the vaccine (Pandemrix) for full immunity to be reached and longer for Celvapan (around 6 weeks) as you have to have 2 doses of that one. I think everyone just has to weigh up how likely they are to catch swine flu. As I work in a pharmacy with ill people coughing and sneezing coming in every day I think for me having the Pandemrix jab now was the right decision. I may have felt differently though if I didn't think I was likely to come into contact with the virus and I didn't have a 2 year old to think about at home.

Some people have asked how can Baxter apply for a patent for their swine flu jab Celvapan a year before swine flu was even an issue. Experts have been predicting a flu pandemic for a while now so I read somewhere that they developed a jab with an existing strain of flu and applied for a patent on that. Then when a new flu strain emerged they wanted a vaccine for, in this case swine flu, they substituted the old strain of flu for the swine flu strain. The rest of the vaccine make-up is the same. They then ran clinical trials on the new swine flu jab. No doubt they will make a lot of money from their vaccine, but on the other hand they must have spent a lot of money on developing a vaccine a while ago for a flu pandemic that may never have come. Also I read the yield of Celvapan has been quite poor, so they must be quite disappointed with that!

I agree with other comments that one of the reasons (as well as looking after people's health) the government is pushing the vaccination programme is money but nothing more sinister than that. People hospitalised with swine flu will cost them a lot of money as will high amounts of people unable to attend work because they are ill.

Just wanted to let everyone know that I had the Pandemrix jab on Tuesday. A few hours later I developed a heavy, sore arm and a slight temperature that eased with paracetamol. The next morning I was sick and I felt pretty rotten all day, but nothing too troublesome at all. Symptoms were like a mild cold. The next day I felt absolutely fine again!

Good luck all with your decisions x

 

[callmepoppy]

I have heard a few people say on here that they will be waiting on the celvapan jab as they believe this is safer (in the uk). But i think its important to realise there are risks with this too (as well as the pandemrix, which is the one i had). Celvapan is the only vaccine OF ITS KIND to be licensed by the European Medical Associaton (ie the very first non adjuvanted vaccine produced using vero cell technology). Vero cell technology uses the african green monkey to culture the vaccine as opposed to hen eggs. African green monkeys are well known for producing vaccine contaminating virus's (for example HIV).

Baxter (celvapan producers) do not have a great track record when it comes to vaccines. Anyone who has done there research (and its not difficult to find) will have found that Baxter have 'botched up' vaccines in the past leading to live virus's being used in vaccines and in some cases people contractng HIV (as mentioned before via vero cell technology)! The HIV contaminated vaccines were actually still distributed even after the contamination was discovered. can you trust this company? Its very hard to find the faith. I am not sayng this vaccine IS unsafe but that it isnt guaranteed to be safe as people may be thinkng (this may be why people are holdng off for the celvapan). Vero cell technology is relatively new which is why personally i dont think celvapan is the holy grail here. People shouldnt hold out for a vaccine which has its own risks too - if that makes sense.

I am not saying this to scare anyone but think that given people know the risks of pandemrix its only fair to even the keel and give some info on the risks of the celvapan.

My point is there are risks with both vaccines and with not vaccinating at all. People should weigh up these risks and make an informed choice and not listen to accusations and speculation about the government wanting to save money etc.... The risks of not vaccinating or waiting for the celvepan outweighed those of the pandemrix so i got this one - but thats just me! Swine flu is already showing resistance to tamiflu which is a scary thought. This decision is too important. Its about your health and your babies and thats it. x

Not the most reliable source but first one I came across:
https://www.newsmax.com/health/vaccine_swine_flu/2009/07/07/232717.html

 

[gem_]

I have heard a few people say on here that they will be waiting on the celvapan jab as they believe this is safer (in the uk). But i think its important to realise there are risks with this too (as well as the pandemrix, which is the one i had). Celvapan is the only vaccine OF ITS KIND to be licensed by the European Medical Associaton (ie the very first non adjuvanted vaccine produced using vero cell technology). Vero cell technology uses the african green monkey to culture the vaccine as opposed to hen eggs. African green monkeys are well known for producing vaccine contaminating virus's (for example HIV).

Baxter (celvapan producers) do not have a great track record when it comes to vaccines. Anyone who has done there research (and its not difficult to find) will have found that Baxter have 'botched up' vaccines in the past leading to live virus's being used in vaccines and in some cases people contractng HIV (as mentioned before via vero cell technology)! The HIV contaminated vaccines were actually still distributed even after the contamination was discovered. can you trust this company? Its very hard to find the faith. I am not sayng this vaccine IS unsafe but that it isnt guaranteed to be safe as people may be thinkng (this may be why people are holdng off for the celvapan). Vero cell technology is relatively new which is why personally i dont think celvapan is the holy grail here. People shouldnt hold out for a vaccine which has its own risks too - if that makes sense.

I am not saying this to scare anyone but think that given people know the risks of pandemrix its only fair to even the keel and give some info on the risks of the celvapan.

My point is there are risks with both vaccines and with not vaccinating at all. People should weigh up these risks and make an informed choice and not listen to accusations and speculation about the government wanting to save money etc.... The risks of not vaccinating or waiting for the celvepan outweighed those of the pandemrix so i got this one - but thats just me! Swine flu is already showing resistance to tamiflu which is a scary thought. This decision is too important. Its about your health and your babies and thats it. x

Not the most reliable source but first one I came across:
https://www.newsmax.com/health/vaccine_swine_flu/2009/07/07/232717.html

I just wanted to add to Callmepoppy's post that there is also another advantage to having an adjuvanted vaccine such as Pandemrix over an unadjuvanted vaccine such as Celvapan. Experts believe that the use of an adjuvant is more likely to protect you from similar mutated strains of the swine flu virus as well. Up to now this hasn't really been a concern but yesterday it was announced that the first mutated strain of swine flu that is resistant to Tamiflu had been passed from person to person in the whole world. And where was this? - Cardiff! Guess where I live . They are hoping to contain this strain within the hospital but as we all know there are no guarantees!

 

[AimeeM]

I have heard a few people say on here that they will be waiting on the celvapan jab as they believe this is safer (in the uk). But i think its important to realise there are risks with this too (as well as the pandemrix, which is the one i had). Celvapan is the only vaccine OF ITS KIND to be licensed by the European Medical Associaton (ie the very first non adjuvanted vaccine produced using vero cell technology). Vero cell technology uses the african green monkey to culture the vaccine as opposed to hen eggs. African green monkeys are well known for producing vaccine contaminating virus's (for example HIV).

Baxter (celvapan producers) do not have a great track record when it comes to vaccines. Anyone who has done there research (and its not difficult to find) will have found that Baxter have 'botched up' vaccines in the past leading to live virus's being used in vaccines and in some cases people contractng HIV (as mentioned before via vero cell technology)! The HIV contaminated vaccines were actually still distributed even after the contamination was discovered. can you trust this company? Its very hard to find the faith. I am not sayng this vaccine IS unsafe but that it isnt guaranteed to be safe as people may be thinkng (this may be why people are holdng off for the celvapan). Vero cell technology is relatively new which is why personally i dont think celvapan is the holy grail here. People shouldnt hold out for a vaccine which has its own risks too - if that makes sense.

I am not saying this to scare anyone but think that given people know the risks of pandemrix its only fair to even the keel and give some info on the risks of the celvapan.

My point is there are risks with both vaccines and with not vaccinating at all. People should weigh up these risks and make an informed choice and not listen to accusations and speculation about the government wanting to save money etc.... The risks of not vaccinating or waiting for the celvepan outweighed those of the pandemrix so i got this one - but thats just me! Swine flu is already showing resistance to tamiflu which is a scary thought. This decision is too important. Its about your health and your babies and thats it. x

Not the most reliable source but first one I came across:
https://www.newsmax.com/health/vaccine_swine_flu/2009/07/07/232717.html

I just wanted to add to Callmepoppy's post that there is also another advantage to having an adjuvanted vaccine such as Pandemrix over an unadjuvanted vaccine such as Celvapan. Experts believe that the use of an adjuvant is more likely to protect you from similar mutated strains of the swine flu virus as well. Up to now this hasn't really been a concern but yesterday it was announced that the first mutated strain of swine flu that is resistant to Tamiflu had been passed from person to person in the whole world. And where was this? - Cardiff! Guess where I live . They are hoping to contain this strain within the hospital but as we all know there are no guarantees!

I saw this on the 10 o'clock news they said, it had been kept it enclosed to a hospital ward? And that they all had serious underlying conditions.

 

[AimeeM]

Yeah i just had another look, it basically says that as people who have weaker immune systems than others eg hiv patients, the virus is more likely to be resistant to tamiflu and still show up on test but i suppose this is understandable as they don't have tamiflu and a normal immune system to fight it off, just the tamiflu if you understand wheat i mean?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8370859.stm

 

[gem_]

For those of you that want Celvapan found this link on another website from the Department of Health. Page 3 basically says that they recommend pregnant women receive Pandemrix but, as to be vaccinated is better than no vaccination at all any pregnant women who are only happy to receive Celvapan should not be refused it.

https://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_d.../@dh/@en/documents/digitalasset/dh_108855.pdf

 

[JessiHD]

For those of you that want Celvapan found this link on another website from the Department of Health. Page 3 basically says that they recommend pregnant women receive Pandemrix but, as to be vaccinated is better than no vaccination at all any pregnant women who are only happy to receive Celvapan should not be refused it.

https://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_d.../@dh/@en/documents/digitalasset/dh_108855.pdf

Although the jury is still out on whether the vaccine is going to work at all which is a bit annoying.

https://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/333/7574/912

Imagine going through all the stress of whether to take the vaccine or not, finally having it done and then three months later catching it! I must admit I have my doubts about Celvapan too. I wonder why they can't just make it identical to seasonal flu vaccine?

 

[icklelaura]

I have just been an had the Cevlapan injection. I wasnt planning on having the seasonal flu jab or the swine flu after having a bad rection 9yrs ago to the seasonal flu jab. But after recently having an asthma attack (for which i was admitted to hospital) and the fact that since i found out i was pregnant i havent been well my doctors did a lot of research and referred me to a specialist and my asthma nurse looked into it all for me and they all advised that i went and had it. So i have done so and went for the slow acting but apparently more effective one!! (not so many chemicals in it as the other one has apparently!?)

This is also my 1st baby so not really sure what i should expect from it all xx

 

[24/7]

I'm not pregnant, but have had the swine flu vaccine, and had the pandemrix one. I had a sore arm for a couple of days and the aches of a cold the next morning, but apart from that was fine. I was very worried about having it, but decided to have it in the end.