Thatcher is dead

[Lina]

I do believe that much of the vitriol leveled at her is because she was a woman. Society expects much more from women. Thatcher was compared to the words and (in)actions of Churchill a saint! and he is upheld as some form of legend.

The media is predominately singing her praises and today we have a recall of parliament for which the taxpayer will be billed. All for what? some more undue nauseating praise.

 

[lhancock90]

I do believe that much of the vitriol leveled at her is because she was a woman. Society expects much more from women. Thatcher was compared to the words and (in)actions of Churchill a saint! and he is upheld as some form of legend.

The media is predominately singing her praises and today we have a recall of parliament for which the taxpayer will be billed. All for what? some more undue nauseating praise.

This.
I think people expected a female priminister to take a softly softly approach, because she was a woman and they are expected to be kinder, softer, unable to be cruel.
I truly believe if Thatcher had been a man, like Blair or Cameron the hate would be so much less.

 

[Piper84]

Thatcher's support of Pinochet is just one of the many things to add to the list of reasons I despise her. She showed support for a man who was wanted for thousands of murders, including dropping pregnant women and young children out of helicopters into the sea, at a time when international justice was going to bring him to account. He was allowed to die a free man thanks to her intervention.

I don't care if he allowed the Royal Navy to use Chilean ports during the Falklands war. She made a mockery of international law and democracy and that monster's victims as well as bringing shame on our country.

 

[Pearls18]

I do believe that much of the vitriol leveled at her is because she was a woman. Society expects much more from women. Thatcher was compared to the words and (in)actions of Churchill a saint! and he is upheld as some form of legend.

The media is predominately singing her praises and today we have a recall of parliament for which the taxpayer will be billed. All for what? some more undue nauseating praise.

Yes I was saying this to DH yesterday, not to excuse her policies or anything, but I wonder if people took everything more personally because she was a woman, because they expected her to be a bit more...maternal I guess? Empathetic? That maybe it seemed crueler because she was defying her gender as well as her position? I don't know, but it seems to me when male politicians make decisions (although not as big as hers granted) people get annoyed at the decision, and don't personally attack in quite the same way.

 

[Piper84]

There's no basis for comparison because we've never had another female PM.

In my opinion she hardened herself because she expected to be attacked in a male-dominated world. She was constantly trying to show the world she had "balls" and everyone suffered more as a result. Her nickname "Iron Lady" doesn't just apply to her conviction (some might call it stubbornness), but also to her inhumanity.

 

[Lina]

Or conversely one could argue that because we've never had a woman in the highest office before, the expectations were different and perhaps higher. We are all aware of how horrible gender equality is in politics and misogynistic the commons is. It's not surprising she exuded toughness, she had to be!

But I don't believe this defined who she was as an individual. From listening to personal stories of her constituents in Finchley and people who knew her over the years she was a caring and considerate woman who knew people by their first names.

I'm in no way defending her but she wasn't all devil.

 

[Piper84]

Or conversely one could argue that because we've never had a woman in the highest office before, the expectations were different and perhaps higher. We are all aware of how horrible gender equality is in politics and misogynistic the commons is. It's not surprising she exuded toughness.

But I don't believe this defined who she was as an individual. From listening to personal stories of her constituents in Finchley and people who knew her over the years she was a caring and considerate woman who knew people by their first names.

I'm in no way defending her but she wasn't all devil.

I don't believe in "good" and "evil" in such simple terms either, but I don't think it's relevant what she was like in private. Her conduct in public is what affected us.

 

[lhancock90]

Or conversely one could argue that because we've never had a woman in the highest office before, the expectations were different and perhaps higher. We are all aware of how horrible gender equality is in politics and misogynistic the commons is. It's not surprising she exuded toughness, she had to be!

But I don't believe this defined who she was as an individual. From listening to personal stories of her constituents in Finchley and people who knew her over the years she was a caring and considerate woman who knew people by their first names.

I'm in no way defending her but she wasn't all devil.

 

[Missy86]

There's no basis for comparison because we've never had another female PM.

In my opinion she hardened herself because she expected to be attacked in a male-dominated world. She was constantly trying to show the world she had "balls" and everyone suffered more as a result. Her nickname "Iron Lady" doesn't just apply to her conviction (some might call it stubbornness), but also to her inhumanity.

I dont think its fair to call her inhuman, she wasnt a monster
she had a husband and kids

 

[Peanut78]

Or conversely one could argue that because we've never had a woman in the highest office before, the expectations were different and perhaps higher. We are all aware of how horrible gender equality is in politics and misogynistic the commons is. It's not surprising she exuded toughness.

But I don't believe this defined who she was as an individual. From listening to personal stories of her constituents in Finchley and people who knew her over the years she was a caring and considerate woman who knew people by their first names.

I'm in no way defending her but she wasn't all devil.

I don't believe in "good" and "evil" in such simple terms either, but I don't think it's relevant what she was like in private. Her conduct in public is what affected us.

This

 

[lhancock90]

There's no basis for comparison because we've never had another female PM.

In my opinion she hardened herself because she expected to be attacked in a male-dominated world. She was constantly trying to show the world she had "balls" and everyone suffered more as a result. Her nickname "Iron Lady" doesn't just apply to her conviction (some might call it stubbornness), but also to her inhumanity.

I dont think its fair to call her inhuman, she wasnt a monster
she had a husband and kids

I personally don't think she was inhuman.
But Hitler had a dog, he was a vegatarian and he was very much in love and loved in return by Eva Braun, would you say he was?
What do we base inhumanity on?

 

[Lina]

Yeah sure, but then also you cannot please all people. Even those who loathed her policies admire her conviction as a politician, something which we will never see again in politics.

 

[Peanut78]

There's no basis for comparison because we've never had another female PM.

In my opinion she hardened herself because she expected to be attacked in a male-dominated world. She was constantly trying to show the world she had "balls" and everyone suffered more as a result. Her nickname "Iron Lady" doesn't just apply to her conviction (some might call it stubbornness), but also to her inhumanity.

I dont think its fair to call her inhuman, she wasnt a monster
she had a husband and kids

Inhumanity in terms of politics and policies she pursued and enforced.

The fact that she has a husband and children is irrelevant (which by the way many of the so-called dictators and tyrants that have been raised in this thread had as well)...

 

[Natsku]

There's no basis for comparison because we've never had another female PM.

In my opinion she hardened herself because she expected to be attacked in a male-dominated world. She was constantly trying to show the world she had "balls" and everyone suffered more as a result. Her nickname "Iron Lady" doesn't just apply to her conviction (some might call it stubbornness), but also to her inhumanity.

I dont think its fair to call her inhuman, she wasnt a monster
she had a husband and kids

I dunno, I think you have to be a bit of a monster to be friends with one.

 

[Piper84]

There's no basis for comparison because we've never had another female PM.

In my opinion she hardened herself because she expected to be attacked in a male-dominated world. She was constantly trying to show the world she had "balls" and everyone suffered more as a result. Her nickname "Iron Lady" doesn't just apply to her conviction (some might call it stubbornness), but also to her inhumanity.

I dont think its fair to call her inhuman, she wasnt a monster
she had a husband and kids

The fact that she married and reproduced doesn't mean anything. So did Stalin and any other number of monsters (your word not mine).

It is telling that her only son grew up to be an arms dealer and her daughter didn't particularly like her though.

Someone who intervenes on the behalf of mass murderers is lacking in humanity. Take any number of the acts she committed while in office and you can apply the same statement.

 

[Tasha]

I dunno if this has been shared. Interesting article on people's houghts on her fro both side of the argument.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/what-did-margaret-thatcher-do-britain

 

[Pearls18]

Arms dealer?! I seriously need to start reading up on this family!!

 

[Piper84]

Yeah sure, but then also you cannot please all people. Even those who loathed her policies admire her conviction as a politician, something which we will never see again in politics.

But her "conviction" meant steamrollering consensus politics, commonplace after WWII and far less divisive. It is Thatcher's "conviction" that made British (especially English) politics so tribal.

 

[Lina]

Yeah sure, but then also you cannot please all people. Even those who loathed her policies admire her conviction as a politician, something which we will never see again in politics.

But her "conviction" meant steamrollering consensus politics, commonplace after WWII and far less divisive. It is Thatcher's "conviction" that made British (especially English) politics so tribal.

I agree. I do think her foresight was brilliant on Britain moving from predominately manufacturing to financial and professional services. I only wonder if she regretted the speed.

I think this is a brilliant article, which offers some balance. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance...ays-problems-is-to-misunderstand-history.html

 

[Piper84]

Yeah sure, but then also you cannot please all people. Even those who loathed her policies admire her conviction as a politician, something which we will never see again in politics.

But her "conviction" meant steamrollering consensus politics, commonplace after WWII and far less divisive. It is Thatcher's "conviction" that made British (especially English) politics so tribal.

I agree. I do think her foresight was brilliant on Britain moving from predominately manufacturing to financial and professional services. I only wonder if she regretted the speed.

I think this is a brilliant article, which offers some balance. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance...ays-problems-is-to-misunderstand-history.html

Thanks for the link!

I disagree with a lot of it, especially the statement that British made goods were of "notoriously poor" quality. Britain was a top exporter for a number of good products, including steel, tractors, ships and cars. British machinery and know-how was sold abroad during and after the decline, which wouldn't have happened if what the author writes were true.

In truth, it wasn't her foresight to notice and embrace the trend. Britain was already moving in that direction shortly after WWII, although it didn't necessarily have to be the case (compare Germany for example).

It was the glee she seemed to take in it and the utter lack of contingency plans and regard for social repercussions that was disturbing.