Thatcher is dead

[Missy86]

Which government brought in the grants for people to go to uni and they didn't have to pay it back

 

[Piper84]

The Macmillan government in 1962, I think: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/10-11/12/enacted

 

[Missy86]

And he was Tory?

 

[Piper84]

Harold Macmillan on Thatcher's handling of the miner's strike:

It breaks my heart to see—and I cannot interfere—what is happening in our country today. This terrible strike, by the best men in the world, who beat the Kaiser's and Hitler's armies and never gave in. It is pointless and we cannot afford that kind of thing. Then there is the growing division of Conservative prosperity in the south and the ailing north and Midlands. We used to have battles and rows but they were quarrels. Now there is a new kind of wicked hatred that has been brought in by different types of people.

 

[Peanut78]

Thatchers "BFF's"

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/04/10/margaret-thatcher-funeral_n_3053015.html#slide=2321371

 

[Missy86]

I am a bit confused

My dad was brought up in a working class family, his dad worked in the pit
My dad was able to go to uni in the early 80s all paid for with a grant and he never had to pay it back

How can people say there was no opitunites

 

[mumoffive]

There were no jobs quite simply. Unemployment was high and there were few opportunities. Not everyone was academic but i dont know when the grant system was replaced. She also introduce the 'poll tax' in scotland in which there was a major rebellion. We were used as guinea pigs for an incredibly unfair tax.

 

[Piper84]

She didn't enable people to go to university especially, but she definitely set in motion the changes that have led to universities being more like businesses instead of first and foremost being places of learning.

The poll tax riots in London were notorious in that police used horse charges against demonstrators (when a minority of "anarchists" were causing trouble) and even trampled over some. Just one of the many times Thatcher used the police as her personal army. The police in Britain are still heavily politicised to this day and it will take a long time for them to recover from it.

 

[lhancock90]

Anyone watching the funeral?

(Christ i can't believe its actually televised and Terry Wogan is there...)

 

[Missy86]

There were no jobs quite simply. Unemployment was high and there were few opportunities. Not everyone was academic but i dont know when the grant system was replaced. She also introduce the 'poll tax' in scotland in which there was a major rebellion. We were used as guinea pigs for an incredibly unfair tax.

I think Tony Blair replaced it

 

[Foogirl]

Regardless of your politics, celebrating the death of another individual is disrespectful, in my opinion. And making excuses for that by saying she showed no respect is ridiculous.

One of my Facebookers commented "celebrating her death does not change what she did, it just makes you look like an idiot"

Even Billy Bragg, one of her biggest opponents, decried those celebrating and felt it was distasteful. I'm watching her funeral at the moment and seeing her family and wondering how I would have felt if my grandmother or mother had died and people were throwing a party.

There were no jobs quite simply. Unemployment was high and there were few opportunities. Not everyone was academic but i dont know when the grant system was replaced. She also introduce the 'poll tax' in scotland in which there was a major rebellion. We were used as guinea pigs for an incredibly unfair tax.

No we weren't. If that had been the case, given how badly it was received, how much controversy there was about it and how many people refused to pay, surely they would have not then introduced it in the rest of the UK.

The reason Poll tax came to Scotland early was because there had just been a wholly unpopular rates re-evaluation which people were very, very unhappy about. George Younger who was the Scottish Secretary along with his ministers in the Scottish Office, pushed and pushed for the Poll Tax to be introduced to remove the problem with the rates.

This is my problem with much of the rejoicing at her death. So many myths surround what she actually did, the truth of her leadership is muddied with party politics, hatred and emotion. In my opinion, some of the stuff she actually did was bad enough, without having to add lies to it.

But she also did some very good stuff, she turned around a country which was on its knees by making wholly unpopular decisions and doing what needed to be done. Had she not taken the decision to cut back on our heavy industry, does anyone really believe it would still be running and doing so very successfully? The reason it went was because it was sucking the tax payer dry and the reality was it was not making enough money to support the large numbers of people working in it. Of course that is sad for those who lost those jobs, for communities which lost an industry, but is it up to the tax payer to keep those communities afloat. In the reports after Thatcher's death, I kept seeing reports from old mining communities "left devastated by Thatcher" Comment after comment from locals there saying "she" had put them on the scrapheap, and had put their children on the scrapheap, and their children's children. I find it incredible to think that three generations have been unable to find meaningful employment, through two major booms. That a community cannot diversify, that a local council was unable to attract new business to the area, as so many others have. And frankly, if in 3 generations you lived in an area with no opportunity, wouldn't you just move? What it comes down to, is the very people Thatcher was against were those who would not make the effort to help themselves. In my experience of the Thatcher years, if you met it half way, the Government would help you along.

 

[Missy86]

I have said before Arthur Scargill was a big reason why mining finished in Wales

 

[dani_tinks]

I watched part of the funeral with Jacob. Mainly because it's an important part of our countries history and quite educational. Jacob was fascinated and asked a lot of questions. He doesn't understand death, but he enjoyed learning about the famous people on the television and the sights of London. He's asked if we can ''go see''.

 

[Pearls18]

Regardless of your politics, celebrating the death of another individual is disrespectful, in my opinion. And making excuses for that by saying she showed no respect is ridiculous.

One of my Facebookers commented "celebrating her death does not change what she did, it just makes you look like an idiot"

Even Billy Bragg, one of her biggest opponents, decried those celebrating and felt it was distasteful. I'm watching her funeral at the moment and seeing her family and wondering how I would have felt if my grandmother or mother had died and people were throwing a party.

There were no jobs quite simply. Unemployment was high and there were few opportunities. Not everyone was academic but i dont know when the grant system was replaced. She also introduce the 'poll tax' in scotland in which there was a major rebellion. We were used as guinea pigs for an incredibly unfair tax.

No we weren't. If that had been the case, given how badly it was received, how much controversy there was about it and how many people refused to pay, surely they would have not then introduced it in the rest of the UK.

The reason Poll tax came to Scotland early was because there had just been a wholly unpopular rates re-evaluation which people were very, very unhappy about. George Younger who was the Scottish Secretary along with his ministers in the Scottish Office, pushed and pushed for the Poll Tax to be introduced to remove the problem with the rates.

This is my problem with much of the rejoicing at her death. So many myths surround what she actually did, the truth of her leadership is muddied with party politics, hatred and emotion. In my opinion, some of the stuff she actually did was bad enough, without having to add lies to it.

But she also did some very good stuff, she turned around a country which was on its knees by making wholly unpopular decisions and doing what needed to be done. Had she not taken the decision to cut back on our heavy industry, does anyone really believe it would still be running and doing so very successfully? The reason it went was because it was sucking the tax payer dry and the reality was it was not making enough money to support the large numbers of people working in it. Of course that is sad for those who lost those jobs, for communities which lost an industry, but is it up to the tax payer to keep those communities afloat. In the reports after Thatcher's death, I kept seeing reports from old mining communities "left devastated by Thatcher" Comment after comment from locals there saying "she" had put them on the scrapheap, and had put their children on the scrapheap, and their children's children. I find it incredible to think that three generations have been unable to find meaningful employment, through two major booms. That a community cannot diversify, that a local council was unable to attract new business to the area, as so many others have. And frankly, if in 3 generations you lived in an area with no opportunity, wouldn't you just move? What it comes down to, is the very people Thatcher was against were those who would not make the effort to help themselves. In my experience of the Thatcher years, if you met it half way, the Government would help you along.[/QUOTE]

This is the problem I have with a lot of the anti-Thatcher sentiment, I'm not saying she didn't make it difficult, but I am so bored of people's lack of personal responsibility, in the 1980s and today, too many people are quick to blame somebody else, my god the 1980s sounded difficult but to say "there were no jobs" is just such a sweeping statement. Both my parents left school with barely any qualifications in the 80s and had decent careers (and moved 150+ miles to improve their lives). My aunties and uncles took whatever they could get, my auntie has had the most colourful CV I could imagine with the range! I'm not denying unemployment, but I think there are too many people out there that like to blame someone or something, think it is somebody else's job to fix, we all have to adapt and make the most out of a situation. People take Thatcher so personally, like she woke up one morning and thought "oh I would love to make 3.3 million people unemployed today, wouldn't that be bloody hilarious!". I genuinely think she thought she was causing damage to a few to improve life for the majority- in the long term (and yes smaller sections of society would benefit more). I'm not a raging Thatcher fan, I really don't know enough, but just from seeing how people today react to politics she's an easy target, and it's tiresome.

 

[Pearls18]

Oh and I watched it to look out for my husband and brother in law working it lol.

 

[TennisGal]

There are plenty of things Thatcher did that make me fume. Then again, that extends to Blair, Brown, Major, Cameron...et al.

Foogirl, had a big reply ready to go...but in my most eloquent of words...what you say.

 

[Foogirl]

There are plenty of things Thatcher did that make me fume. Then again, that extends to Blair, Brown, Major, Cameron...et al.

Foogirl, had a big reply ready to go...but in my most eloquent of words...what you say.

I really should start a professional post writer business!

I have said before Arthur Scargill was a big reason why mining finished in Wales

Totally agree. As do many within the mining community. He picked the wrong fight with the wrong leader.

 

[Missy86]

There was a program on about North Korea on Monday night, it really does put the whole MT government I to context

 

[Pearls18]

There was a program on about North Korea on Monday night, it really does put the whole MT government I to context

Lol yes I watched that and thought exactly the same!

 

[Foogirl]

There was a program on about North Korea on Monday night, it really does put the whole MT government I to context

Lol yes I watched that and thought exactly the same!

So very true.

It also occurred to me Lloyd George was voted the third greatest Prime Minister of all time. Winston Churchill was named the greatest Briton of all time. Between them they were responsible for the deaths of almost two million British people in the two world wars for arguable benefit for the British People. Perhaps there was a threat of german invasion in WW2, we can't be sure. Certainly the reasons for our involvement in WW1 were questionable. Thatcher put some people out of work and tried to fix our economy and is voted the most hated politician ever. What a strange world we live in!