The 12 year old boy imprisoned for 25 years after being tried as an adult

[Piper84]

I was NOT trying to shut her down I was giving my opinion , if you don't live here how can you go by a newspaper? There is bribery everywhere in the world ( Referring to your post) . I sit here as an American and listen to people criticize my country and our way of life to guns to this topic and so on and I can't defend it? And I never said for her NOT to comment I used the word JUDGING, read my post again...., again presuming what i meant.. I can't debate, but everyone else can and my post is ripped apart and you sit here and type what you think I mean from a comment to a flower smiley... please..

Enough with the victimisation complex. There are loads of topics on here which aren't about the US if you look down the list. I'm defending members' right to provide opinions on here without being told they know nothing, so please stop making the whole thing about you.

 

[Andypanda6570]

I was NOT trying to shut her down I was giving my opinion , if you don't live here how can you go by a newspaper? There is bribery everywhere in the world ( Referring to your post) . I sit here as an American and listen to people criticize my country and our way of life to guns to this topic and so on and I can't defend it? And I never said for her NOT to comment I used the word JUDGING, read my post again...., again presuming what i meant.. I can't debate, but everyone else can and my post is ripped apart and you sit here and type what you think I mean from a comment to a flower smiley... please..

Enough with the victimisation complex. There are loads of topics on here which aren't about the US if you look down the list. I'm defending members' right to provide opinions on here without being told they know nothing, so please stop making the whole thing about you.

Have a nice day, Piper 84. Me a victim, making it about me? Wow, you know a lot about me.. Poor me..LOL never ever portrayed myself like that.. You are wrong and judging me..I am done now But have a nice day..............

 

[Piper84]

I was NOT trying to shut her down I was giving my opinion , if you don't live here how can you go by a newspaper? There is bribery everywhere in the world ( Referring to your post) . I sit here as an American and listen to people criticize my country and our way of life to guns to this topic and so on and I can't defend it? And I never said for her NOT to comment I used the word JUDGING, read my post again...., again presuming what i meant.. I can't debate, but everyone else can and my post is ripped apart and you sit here and type what you think I mean from a comment to a flower smiley... please..

Enough with the victimisation complex. There are loads of topics on here which aren't about the US if you look down the list. I'm defending members' right to provide opinions on here without being told they know nothing, so please stop making the whole thing about you.

Have a nice day, Piper 84. Me a victim, making it about me? Wow, you know a lot about me.. Poor me..LOL never ever portrayed myself like that.. You are wrong and judging me..I am done now But have a nice day..............

Thanks for your very meaningful contribution to the topic

 

[Andypanda6570]

I was NOT trying to shut her down I was giving my opinion , if you don't live here how can you go by a newspaper? There is bribery everywhere in the world ( Referring to your post) . I sit here as an American and listen to people criticize my country and our way of life to guns to this topic and so on and I can't defend it? And I never said for her NOT to comment I used the word JUDGING, read my post again...., again presuming what i meant.. I can't debate, but everyone else can and my post is ripped apart and you sit here and type what you think I mean from a comment to a flower smiley... please..

Enough with the victimisation complex. There are loads of topics on here which aren't about the US if you look down the list. I'm defending members' right to provide opinions on here without being told they know nothing, so please stop making the whole thing about you.

Have a nice day, Piper 84. Me a victim, making it about me? Wow, you know a lot about me.. Poor me..LOL never ever portrayed myself like that.. You are wrong and judging me..I am done now But have a nice day..............

Thanks for your very meaningful contribution to the topic

Aww your welcome

 

[steph.]

Ladies....come on. I have seen andypanda on this forum a lot over the past couple of years and can honestly say I have never seen her be rude to anyone. From her posts i think she is a lovely person and think this post was taken the wrong way. Thats the problem with the internet, the tone can be misinterpreted. Can we stop critising the use of smileys and move back to the original topic?

 

[Natsku]

I think its stupid - he's going to be released at 37 and then what? He will have no clue how to cope and something spectacularly wrong could happen. I mean this in the least offensive way possible but American prisons are not exactly famed for their rehabilitation of criminals.

And what are the laws in the UK, ? There is indeed rehabilitation for young offenders and yes I know this first hand . Do I think he should be imprisoned that long no, but don't judge what you really know nothing about..

I am getting really annoyed at people judging America and its inner workings by people who don't even live here..

The USA is renowned for contracting prison services out to private companies which are run for profit. Some judges have even been convicted for taking bribes to send juveniles to privately-run prisons: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/19/us/19brfs-Judge.html?ref=markaciavarella

You don't need to live in a country to pick up a newspaper, and the argument that people shouldn't criticise the workings of countries they don't live in is pretty weak.

Also, telling someone they obviously know "nothing about" a topic is kind of rude and not made any better with a smiley flowery emoticon.

Interesting that the source makes a lot of noise any theme James Bulgers killers so much as fart in the wrong place nowadays, the feeling is, they should have had a life sentence.

Exactly.

My opinion and I am entitled to it.. I didn't say she knew nothing of the topic but not living here you don't know our way of life. And I put a smiley as my opinion not being sarcastic, stop quoting my posts and trying to make me look like I am doing something wrong, my opinion is just as important as yours............I have never been rude to anyone I always put a smiley to let people know just cause I disagree it doesn't mean I am upset with them . You don't even know me your being RUDE to presume I mean anything more in my post than i do............

It's pretty clear what you meant and I haven't put any words in anyone's mouth. You tried to shut down someone's argument by saying they don't live where you do so they don't know anything about the topic or your "way of life", so therefore shouldn't comment.

I was NOT trying to shut her down I was giving my opinion , if you don't live here how can you go by a newspaper? There is bribery everywhere in the world ( Referring to your post) . I sit here as an American and listen to people criticize my country and our way of life to guns to this topic and so on and I can't defend it? And I never said for her NOT to comment I used the word JUDGING, read my post again...., again presuming what i meant.. I can't debate, but everyone else can and my post is ripped apart and you sit here and type what you think I mean from a comment to a flower smiley... please..

Of course you can defend against criticisms but you can't tell someone that they know nothing just because they don't live in your country. People aren't ignorant, they can find out about places they don't live and being outside of the country brings the benefit of less bias (usually).

 

[Andypanda6570]

Ladies....come on. I have seen andypanda on this forum a lot over the past couple of years and can honestly say I have never seen her be rude to anyone. From her posts i think she is a lovely person and think this post was taken the wrong way. Thats the problem with the internet, the tone can be misinterpreted. Can we stop critising the use of smileys and move back to the original topic?

Thank you. I will just leave the conversation now, I don't want to ruin it for anyone. I am sorry I did that to you all.. XO

 

[LoraLoo]

My immediate reaction was to compare it to the James Bulger killers. You are right, most people would argue that they should have got life sentences, and yet here we are arguing that this boy shouldn't. I think the James Bulger case was viewed as worse because he was just a baby, but it is right that murder is murder regardless of the victims age.

I dont think you can say each child over 12 should be tried as an adult because there is such a variation of maturity and understanding of consequences at that age. I do think more money should be put into rehabilitation (in both UK and US) rather than longer sentences- I dont really see how a longer sentence is going to benefit anybody? Who is it benefiting?

 

[bumpy_j]

I think its stupid - he's going to be released at 37 and then what? He will have no clue how to cope and something spectacularly wrong could happen. I mean this in the least offensive way possible but American prisons are not exactly famed for their rehabilitation of criminals.

And what are the laws in the UK, ? There is indeed rehabilitation for young offenders and yes I know this first hand . Do I think he should be imprisoned that long no, but don't judge what you really know nothing about..

I am getting really annoyed at people judging America and its inner workings by people who don't even live here..

I didn't say the UK had it right, we have huge flaws in our system and a rife, proud prison culture culture amongst our youths. Look at Scandinavia if you want to see a better comparison of an area with a low reoffending rate. I think before I could personally decide on what the boys deserved, I'd want to hear more of their defence; why they wanted to run away so much being quite a key component although would probably not change much. I would be inclined to say Juvie until they are too old to stay any longer and 5 years of real prison with protection and counselling to have a taster of that life. That in my opinion would be more like rehabilitation and there would be less danger of becoming institutionalized.

 

[Andypanda6570]

I think its stupid - he's going to be released at 37 and then what? He will have no clue how to cope and something spectacularly wrong could happen. I mean this in the least offensive way possible but American prisons are not exactly famed for their rehabilitation of criminals.

And what are the laws in the UK, ? There is indeed rehabilitation for young offenders and yes I know this first hand . Do I think he should be imprisoned that long no, but don't judge what you really know nothing about..

I am getting really annoyed at people judging America and its inner workings by people who don't even live here..

I didn't say the UK had it right, we have huge flaws in our system and a rife, proud prison culture culture amongst our youths. Look at Scandinavia if you want to see a better comparison of an area with a low reoffending rate. I think before I could personally decide on what the boys deserved, I'd want to hear more of their defence; why they wanted to run away so much being quite a key component.

I wanted to just apologize, I gave an opinion and maybe it didn't come out right. But then my post was taken even further by someone else and made out to be worse than it was meant , then of course my character was judged and what i meant to say and what a smiley flower was meant to mean. I just want you to know I didn't mean it that way and the smiley was genuine.. Thank You..

 

[Piper84]

I think its stupid - he's going to be released at 37 and then what? He will have no clue how to cope and something spectacularly wrong could happen. I mean this in the least offensive way possible but American prisons are not exactly famed for their rehabilitation of criminals.

And what are the laws in the UK, ? There is indeed rehabilitation for young offenders and yes I know this first hand . Do I think he should be imprisoned that long no, but don't judge what you really know nothing about..

I am getting really annoyed at people judging America and its inner workings by people who don't even live here..

I didn't say the UK had it right, we have huge flaws in our system and a rife, proud prison culture culture amongst our youths. Look at Scandinavia if you want to see a better comparison of an area with a low reoffending rate. I think before I could personally decide on what the boys deserved, I'd want to hear more of their defence; why they wanted to run away so much being quite a key component although would probably not change much. I would be inclined to say Juvie until they are too old to stay any longer and 5 years of real prison with protection and counselling to have a taster of that life. That in my opinion would be more like rehabilitation and there would be less danger of becoming institutionalized.

Apparently the stepfather was abusive, not that it excuses murder, but surely it should be taken into account in sentencing, and the fact he was arguably put up to it by an older boy.

 

[bumpy_j]

Interesting. I suppose we would have to understand the extent of the abuse if this is true.

 

[bumpy_j]

The 15 year old got 30 years by the way. He was the one that pulled the trigger apparently

 

[Piper84]

In answer to a question earlier on in the thread, apparently the guns belonged to the victim and the boys just took them.

I think there were a few shots fired, and Gingerich fired after the first had hit.

It's hard to find a good source on what actually supposedly happened though.

ETA: I've just read something else to say there was no evidence of abuse, so discount my last comment on that!

 

[xemmax]

This is a biased source (Paul Henry Gingerich Trust Fund) but this is obviously the defense's version of events:
https://www.paulhenrygingerichtrustfund.org/background02.html

This claims he didn't even fire the fatal shot.

 

[Tiff]

I don't even know how it is in the States when it comes to the justice system as every state is different, so it can be hard to read a generalization about the entire country when every state has its different means of doing things. Woah, was about to put the flower smilie You'd think I would have a decent idea considering I live about 5 or 6 hours from both the NY and Michigan borders but no such luck.

That's what I interpreted Andypanda to be saying. But I can see how things can come across too, tone is so hard to gauge over text.

In other stuff, do people really think the smilie is annoying? Holy hell, I use it in almost every post.

As for the topic, I can also see looking as a parent how horrific it'd be to have your kiddo jailed for that long. But then I try to think of it from the victim's family standpoint, and that's where I would get upset as at least he has his life. Dead is dead and there's no coming back from it. Even if he didn't pull the trigger, again at 12 years of age you know right from wrong. JMO though.

 

[Andypanda6570]

I don't even know how it is in the States when it comes to the justice system as every state is different, so it can be hard to read a generalization about the entire country when every state has its different means of doing things. Woah, was about to put the flower smilie You'd think I would have a decent idea considering I live about 5 or 6 hours from both the NY and Michigan borders but no such luck.

That's what I interpreted Andypanda to be saying. But I can see how things can come across too, tone is so hard to gauge over text.

In other stuff, do people really think the smilie is annoying? Holy hell, I use it in almost every post.

As for the topic, I can also see looking as a parent how horrific it'd be to have your kiddo jailed for that long. But then I try to think of it from the victim's family standpoint, and that's where I would get upset as at least he has his life. Dead is dead and there's no coming back from it. Even if he didn't pull the trigger, again at 12 years of age you know right from wrong. JMO though.

LOL. I always use it and I swear I mean it in a positive way especially when disagreeing with a person. I don't care I am still going to use it, I know what I mean by it, and I know I mean it genuinely

 

[Piper84]

I don't even know how it is in the States when it comes to the justice system as every state is different, so it can be hard to read a generalization about the entire country when every state has its different means of doing things. Woah, was about to put the flower smilie You'd think I would have a decent idea considering I live about 5 or 6 hours from both the NY and Michigan borders but no such luck.

That's what I interpreted Andypanda to be saying. But I can see how things can come across too, tone is so hard to gauge over text.

In other stuff, do people really think the smilie is annoying? Holy hell, I use it in almost every post.

As for the topic, I can also see looking as a parent how horrific it'd be to have your kiddo jailed for that long. But then I try to think of it from the victim's family standpoint, and that's where I would get upset as at least he has his life. Dead is dead and there's no coming back from it. Even if he didn't pull the trigger, again at 12 years of age you know right from wrong. JMO though.

I think the smiley is annoying if it's used in a passive aggressive way, which I still think was the case here:

don't judge what you really know nothing about..

 

[zanDark]

I don't think this case is comparable to the James Bulger case...that poor child was killed brutally while in this case the kids were trying to get rid of a man who was abusive.

That obviously doesn't excuse murder...but I don't think that the kids should get that long in jail. I do believe tho that it's a sentence that will be shortened along the way due to good behavior etc. Or at least I hope it is because those kids will only know prison by the time they get out!

It really upsets me when kids do things like this...who knows what happened to turn that innocent child into someone willing to take a life?

 

[Piper84]

This is a biased source (Paul Henry Gingerich Trust Fund) but this is obviously the defense's version of events:
https://www.paulhenrygingerichtrustfund.org/background02.html

This claims he didn't even fire the fatal shot.

Surely there should have been a retrial because of the procedural errors? His lawyer wasn't given enough time to prepare and he was improperly questioned by the police (without a lawyer, judging by the photos).