The ROyal Family

[Piper84]

Not many 65 year olds do that, let alone people more than 20 years their senior!

That's because they have earned their right to retire after having worked all their lives, scraping together money for a mortgage, family and food and bills, and not even a pension is guaranteed these days. Yet still the retirement age is being put up.

When you've been pampered and had your every need attended to your entire life it's no wonder you're still pretty sprightly at her age.

Besides, they have to justify their outrageous privileges somehow. If they weren't seen to be "working" all the time the public would rightly start to ask what exactly their purpose is, though a little louder than they do at the moment.

 

[Lina]

They exemplify the illusion that is social mobility.

 

[midori1999]

Not many 65 year olds do that, let alone people more than 20 years their senior!

That's because they have earned their right to retire after having worked all their lives, scraping together money for a mortgage, family and food and bills, and not even a pension is guaranteed these days. Yet still the retirement age is being put up.

When you've been pampered and had your every need attended to your entire life it's no wonder you're still pretty sprightly at her age.

Besides, they have to justify their outrageous privileges somehow. If they weren't seen to be "working" all the time the public would rightly start to ask what exactly their purpose is, though a little louder than they do at the moment.

Yes, and of course, soldiers who fight/fought for our country in wars haven't earned anything...

I cannot imagine never having a life of your own, never really being able to make your own choices, never really even being able to (publicly at least) have your own opinion. It's not something I would want regardless of 'privelege' or finances.

 

[dgirllamius]

I'm not a fan but they don't bother me.

I do get a bit annoyed with Germans asking me about them and if I've met the queen blah blah blah. I also get fed up with being asked if I'm related to Camilla (as my last name is Parker). Um, no...we are not related (I hope not anyway)

 

[Piper84]

Not many 65 year olds do that, let alone people more than 20 years their senior!

That's because they have earned their right to retire after having worked all their lives, scraping together money for a mortgage, family and food and bills, and not even a pension is guaranteed these days. Yet still the retirement age is being put up.

When you've been pampered and had your every need attended to your entire life it's no wonder you're still pretty sprightly at her age.

Besides, they have to justify their outrageous privileges somehow. If they weren't seen to be "working" all the time the public would rightly start to ask what exactly their purpose is, though a little louder than they do at the moment.

Yes, and of course, soldiers who fight/fought for our country in wars haven't earned anything...

I cannot imagine never having a life of your own, never really being able to make your own choices, never really even being able to (publicly at least) have your own opinion. It's not something I would want regardless of 'privelege' or finances.

Another example of their outrageous privilege. Ex-servicemen in the UK represent the single largest occupation in our prison population. They suffer a dispropotionately high rate of post-traumatic stress disorder and other mental illnesses. Many end up in prison, as mentioned, or sleeping rough and unable to readjust to everyday life.

Do you think that fate awaits Harry? While he gallavants around Las Vegas and attends polo matches with his privileged friends when he's finished a tour, his colleagues are fighting to survive the reality of life being supported by mental health charities because the state does not support them enough.

Prince Andrew apparently served in the Falklands. That doesn't make him any less redundant or useless in my eyes.

As for your feeling sorry for the Royal Family, there's a simple way to remedy that...

 

[Pearls18]

I think you'll find a large proportion of the military community are very pro the Royals and that is because there is a lot of mutual respect, not only do they VOLUNTEER (they don't get paid) to be in the military and do great jobs but they are a really important voice for the troops in fighting for our cause, the families as well as the troops themselves, so if the majority of the military community aren't bitter about their wealth I don't see why they should be used as an excuse to disregard the royals' work. I am a royalist through and through, I think they do a brilliant job for tourism, the military, charities- who ever thinks they are bone idle is very naive, I wouldn't want their jobs for all the tea in china. It is not a case of popping around being 'pampered' and shaking people's hands it embodies their entire lives. I'm just not one to be resentful tbh, there are rich people in this world and tbh I think they're some of the nicer people with money in this country! As for is being tax money, there are other things I would much rather my money wasn't spent on, I recon they probably make more money for this country than people realise.

 

[Pearls18]

Not many 65 year olds do that, let alone people more than 20 years their senior!

That's because they have earned their right to retire after having worked all their lives, scraping together money for a mortgage, family and food and bills, and not even a pension is guaranteed these days. Yet still the retirement age is being put up.

When you've been pampered and had your every need attended to your entire life it's no wonder you're still pretty sprightly at her age.

Besides, they have to justify their outrageous privileges somehow. If they weren't seen to be "working" all the time the public would rightly start to ask what exactly their purpose is, though a little louder than they do at the moment.

Yes, and of course, soldiers who fight/fought for our country in wars haven't earned anything...

I cannot imagine never having a life of your own, never really being able to make your own choices, never really even being able to (publicly at least) have your own opinion. It's not something I would want regardless of 'privelege' or finances.

Another example of their outrageous privilege. Ex-servicemen in the UK represent the single largest occupation in our prison population. They suffer a dispropotionately high rate of post-traumatic stress disorder and other mental illnesses. Many end up in prison, as mentioned, or sleeping rough and unable to readjust to everyday life.

Do you think that fate awaits Harry? While he gallavants around Las Vegas and attends polo matches with his privileged friends when he's finished a tour, his colleagues are fighting to survive the reality of life being supported by mental health charities because the state does not support them enough.

Prince Andrew apparently served in the Falklands. That doesn't make him any less redundant or useless in my eyes.

As for your feeling sorry for the Royal Family, there's a simple way to remedy that...

To say many ex-servicemen end up in prison is absolute bull shit excuse my French lol! Don't get me wrong I am fully aware of the prevalence of PTSD and am a firm supporter of Healing the Wounded but you are making a massive sweeping statement, I would also like to see the evidence where you state ex servicemen make up the majority of the prison population because I am finding that hard to believe.

 

[Piper84]

To say many ex-servicemen end up in prison is absolute bull shit excuse my French lol! Don't get me wrong I am fully aware of the prevalence of PTSD and am a firm supporter of Healing the Wounded but you are making a massive sweeping statement, I would also like to see the evidence where you state ex servicemen make up the majority of the prison population because I am finding that hard to believe.

Read my post again. I said they make up the single largest occupational group in the prison population, meaning ex-servicemen make up a bigger group than any other profession behind bars.

Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...gs-land-exservicemen-behind-bars-2083314.html from a report carried out by the Howard League:

"The Government study estimates that 3.5 per cent, nearly 3,000 inmates, of the total prison population are military veterans, many of whom served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and now represent the largest single occupational group held behind bars in England and Wales."

 

[Piper84]

I think you'll find a large proportion of the military community are very pro the Royals and that is because there is a lot of mutual respect, not only do they VOLUNTEER (they don't get paid) to be in the military and do great jobs but they are a really important voice for the troops in fighting for our cause, the families as well as the troops themselves, so if the majority of the military community aren't bitter about their wealth I don't see why they should be used as an excuse to disregard the royals' work. I am a royalist through and through, I think they do a brilliant job for tourism, the military, charities- who ever thinks they are bone idle is very naive, I wouldn't want their jobs for all the tea in china. It is not a case of popping around being 'pampered' and shaking people's hands it embodies their entire lives. I'm just not one to be resentful tbh, there are rich people in this world and tbh I think they're some of the nicer people with money in this country! As for is being tax money, there are other things I would much rather my money wasn't spent on, I recon they probably make more money for this country than people realise.

I think you're right about the support among the armed forces, but Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan does not make me change my view that the monarchy in general makes a mockery of modern democracy.

They're "nice" because if they weren't, they would be out on their arses. I'm surprised how quickly people forget Prince Philip's crass comments after the Dunblane massacre and in Lockerbie, or on PTSD: “We didn’t have counsellors rushing around every time somebody let off a gun. You just got on with it!” and the fact the Queen mum was a pretty nasty piece of work. Yet Philip's been made out to be a bumbling old grandad figure and the Queen Mum a kind little old lady. The PR they've done to hide the fact Philip is 100% German is also hilarious (not that I have a problem with his nationality, but the fact they hide it is pathetic).

 

[Pearls18]

To say many ex-servicemen end up in prison is absolute bull shit excuse my French lol! Don't get me wrong I am fully aware of the prevalence of PTSD and am a firm supporter of Healing the Wounded but you are making a massive sweeping statement, I would also like to see the evidence where you state ex servicemen make up the majority of the prison population because I am finding that hard to believe.

Read my post again. I said they make up the single largest occupational group in the prison population, meaning ex-servicemen make up a bigger group than any other profession behind bars.

Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...gs-land-exservicemen-behind-bars-2083314.html from a report carried out by the Howard League:

"The Government study estimates that 3.5 per cent, nearly 3,000 inmates, of the total prison population are military veterans, many of whom served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and now represent the largest single occupational group held behind bars in England and Wales."

Thank you for this sorry for misreading, I find the article not totally helpful though because let's face it how many prison inmates do have occupations in the first place I imagine (although this is speculation not from a study!!) that the biggest group would in fact be unemployed, due the large amount of people who have been in the forces, the variety in jobs and the ease in getting a job it's not all the surprising alongside the difficulties of the job. But I understand this is not the point and it demonstrates the difficulty in assimilation to civilian life for some people...although I don't really relate this to the Royal family. But just because they make up the largest occupational group it is a mistake to go onto make the conclusion that "Many end up in prison, as mentioned, or sleeping rough and unable to readjust to everyday life" especially when the article also says this "These figures suggest veterans are less likely to appear in the prison system than the general population " even if you were just talking about PTSD this would be a generalisation- especially when you consider how many of the roles are infantry or front line. Harry has an incredibly demanding job, personally locking in on a person and killing them- that has to stay with you. But anyways, not saying any of this should make you like the Royal family lol just saying why I don't think many of the military community would be anti-Royalist from my experience, as they were brought into this.

I just think they're human and not out to make a mockery of anything, as far as they are concerned personally it is their duty, they have inherited this role and they aren't going to destroy hundreds of years of history because some left wing people find their presense offensive, the monarchy has gone through much worse- even if they didn't fully see the point of their role anymore which I am sure they do anyway. I think Philip represents more people of his age than his standing, my Grandad who was in the RAF would have said the exact same thing about PTSD I am sure- but then my Grandad didn't have a platform, Philip should be more careful with what his says but it's his humanity I think people choose to love or hate him for.

 

[Piper84]

Thank you for this sorry for misreading, I find the article not totally helpful though because let's face it how many prison inmates do have occupations in the first place I imagine (although this is speculation not from a study!!) that the biggest group would in fact be unemployed, due the large amount of people who have been in the forces, the variety in jobs and the ease in getting a job it's not all the surprising alongside the difficulties of the job. But I understand this is not the point and it demonstrates the difficulty in assimilation to civilian life for some people...although I don't really relate this to the Royal family. But just because they make up the largest occupational group it is a mistake to go onto make the conclusion that "Many end up in prison, as mentioned, or sleeping rough and unable to readjust to everyday life" especially when the article also says this "These figures suggest veterans are less likely to appear in the prison system than the general population " even if you were just talking about PTSD this would be a generalisation- especially when you consider how many of the roles are infantry or front line. Harry has an incredibly demanding job, personally locking in on a person and killing them- that has to stay with you. But anyways, not saying any of this should make you like the Royal family lol just saying why I don't think many of the military community would be anti-Royalist from my experience, as they were brought into this.

I just think they're human and not out to make a mockery of anything, as far as they are concerned personally it is their duty, they have inherited this role and they aren't going to destroy hundreds of years of history because some left wing people find their presense offensive, the monarchy has gone through much worse- even if they didn't fully see the point of their role anymore which I am sure they do anyway. I think Philip represents more people of his age than his standing, my Grandad who was in the RAF would have said the exact same thing about PTSD I am sure- but then my Grandad didn't have a platform, Philip should be more careful with what his says but it's his humanity I think people choose to love or hate him for.

I think you'll find republicanism is found across the political spectrum and can't just be put down to "some left wing people".

The article highlights the lack of support soldiers are given when returning from active duty. It's a disgrace that they have to rely on charities and that the state does not know what to do with them. These charities should not be necessary, the government should not use them as a crutch and the Royal Family should not have to highlight the cause. Prince Harry is a drop in the ocean and he will get no extra respect from me because he's in the army. I'd rather save that for the people who won't be parachuted into a cushy job after a couple of years and have all their needs seen to for the rest of their lives.

I don't have a personal problem with the Queen, but what the whole institution represents and that for people with such moronic views, their opinions are given far too much weight and they are afforded far too much respect.

 

[Pearls18]

Ok yes you can pick at my one flippant comment, I am just grateful republicanism is a very small minority in the UK because I think the Royal Family does a lot for this country, whether you agree or not. And do not think for a moment the army would let Harry be apache pilot if he wasn’t capable, I assure you he will have gone through all the training and would not have gone through an easy ride, yes he was lucky to be able to be an apache pilot so quickly in terms of waiting lists *a very popular military job* but he will have gone through all the training like anybody else- it is far from a cushy job, it’s a bloody awesome job with a limited number and Harry was no doubt able to get the opportunity despite popularity for the job because of his position I do not doubt, but it is damn hard work and I would bet he is as good as any other pilot because they simply would not let him have the job just because he’s a prince- it is not 1750 anymore. If my husband whose dream job is to be an apache pilot isn’t resentful I don’t see why others are. You don’t have to like the Royals, you can resent them for whatever reason, but don’t for one minute discredit their duties in the military our military is not so soft as to let people fight with our soldiers if they didn’t have the skills, not when it comes to active duty. You don’t need to preach to me about PTSD, I know plenty thank you, but it has nothing to do with this argument.

I for one would rather see the Royal family get our respect and respect their opinions more than the mindless celebrity culture reported in the media.

 

[Piper84]

Ok yes you can pick at my one flippant comment, I am just grateful republicanism is a very small minority in the UK because I think the Royal Family does a lot for this country, whether you agree or not. And do not think for a moment the army would let Harry be apache pilot if he wasn’t capable, I assure you he will have gone through all the training and would not have gone through an easy ride, yes he was lucky to be able to be an apache pilot so quickly in terms of waiting lists *a very popular military job* but he will have gone through all the training like anybody else- it is far from a cushy job, it’s a bloody awesome job with a limited number and Harry was no doubt able to get the opportunity despite popularity for the job because of his position I do not doubt, but it is damn hard work and I would bet he is as good as any other pilot because they simply would not let him have the job just because he’s a prince- it is not 1750 anymore. If my husband whose dream job is to be an apache pilot isn’t resentful I don’t see why others are. You don’t have to like the Royals, you can resent them for whatever reason, but don’t for one minute discredit their duties in the military our military is not so soft as to let people fight with our soldiers if they didn’t have the skills, not when it comes to active duty. You don’t need to preach to me about PTSD, I know plenty thank you, but it has nothing to do with this argument.

I for one would rather see the Royal family get our respect and respect their opinions more than the mindless celebrity culture reported in the media.

Are you deliberately not reading my posts properly? I'm talking about when Prince Harry's has finished his army career, which, believe me, will be soon. Then he'll be given a cushy job with a nice comfortable office and have no problem adjusting to life again.

Sadly, they are all just a part of the sick tabloid celebrity culture as Darren Day and Rylan Clark.

You can bring up personal anecdotes and talk about the work the Royal Family does for the armed forces until you're blue in the face. It seems you're one of a lot of people happy to be a loyal pleb - good for you - but it does not change my opinion, nor that of many others, that the monarchy is a joke and not welcome in modern Britain. The more you shout it down as a "small minority", the stronger support for a republic gets without your knowledge (https://www.republic.org.uk/What we want/In depth/Public Opinion/index.php)

 

[Pearls18]

Loyal pleb....cute thanks. I assure you I am well educated and my loyalty does not just stem from my family background but from my time as a history student, monarchy has always been a fascinating topic to me and having one person patronisingly try to tell me I am just being a sheep isn’t going to change my mind, no matter how much you try to talk down to me. And if Republicanism comes into place before we die, you are more than welcome to come back and say I told you so, but how many people turned up to see the ‘protests’ compared to watching, visiting and celebrating the Royal wedding and Diamond jubilee?......but what do we know?! We are all loyal plebs, just in it for the bank holidays, mindlessly following the elite as they get richer and we get poorer, but we’re so uneducated we don’t care! Anyways, neither of us are clearly going to change our minds, but thanks for calling me a pleb- made my day!

 

[Piper84]

Hey, I'm a pleb too. Just not a loyal one when it comes to the monarchy.

For a student of history you don't seem that well acquainted with the difference between fact and opinion, nor do you have much respect for well-researched studies. You're also pretty quick to feel like people are "preaching" at you or "talking down" to you. This is a forum for debate and if you feel patronised when someone disagrees with you or counters your claims of "bullshit" with actual facts, maybe it's the wrong place for you.

 

[Pearls18]

You talked down to me over-stating my misreading of your comments, I am now being patronised by saying how I am disregarding “well-respected studies” when I did not disregard it I disputed some of the inferences made from it...what is uneducated about that? That is exactly what we are taught to do as a students, trying to tell me what I should know as a history graduate, when you first made your claim you did not back it up with evidence, I pulled you up on it and claimed your sweeping statement was bullshit (which it was- there is no study to say “most will end up in prison” –which as a forces’ spouse I admit I jumped on because it’s hard not to take a little offense-I thanked you for stating where you got the information about the largest occupational group in prison) I am on an internet forum not writing a dissertation, so yeah I said bullshit, deary me. I have debated my opinion, I have stated my opinion is not from studies but from my own experiences. If you want to re-read your comments and tell me they are not patronising than that is fine, but it is one thing disagreeing with someone and another to question my abilities. I don’t like where this is going because you have made this personal? I disagree with you, and so do a lot of the country, there is more to the Royal Family than facts and figures in terms of finances, they do a lot for the morale of this country and no maybe this isn’t measureable for an article in The Independent, but hey I don’t care, it isn’t changing any time soon!

 

[Piper84]

You talked down to me over-stating my misreading of your comments, I am now being patronised by saying how I am disregarding “well-respected studies” when I did not disregard it I disputed some of the inferences made from it...what is uneducated about that?

It's hard to believe that it's possible to misunderstand three posts in a row and I think you're underestimating how frustrating it is when someone does that to you repeatedly. Now we have more of you putting words in my mouth. Where did I say you were "uneducated"?

That is exactly what we are taught to do as a students, trying to tell me what I should know as a history graduate, when you first made your claim you did not back it up with evidence, I pulled you up on it and claimed your sweeping statement was bullshit (which it was- there is no study to say “most will end up in prison” –which as a forces’ spouse I admit I jumped on because it’s hard not to take a little offense

Again, where did I say this? You even have the cheek to put quotation marks around it. Breathtaking. It just comes across as more (deliberate?) misunderstanding from someone who is obviously spoiling for a fight whenever someone dares to mention the armed forces.

I am on an internet forum not writing a dissertation, so yeah I said bullshit, deary me. I have debated my opinion, I have stated my opinion is not from studies but from my own experiences.

You're on an internet forum specially for debates. If you wanted to put your history degree to use you could use some of the skills you picked up on your course. Instead you come across as someone with an axe to grind who is very eager to misintepret what other people have to say and extremely easily offended. If you use "personal experience" instead of proper sources in your coursework you'll be failed quicker than you can imagine, so if a topic is so important to you, why weaken your argument by coming across as emotional and badly-informed?

If you want to re-read your comments and tell me they are not patronising than that is fine, but it is one thing disagreeing with someone and another to question my abilities. I don’t like where this is going because you have made this personal? I disagree with you, and so do a lot of the country, there is more to the Royal Family than facts and figures in terms of finances, they do a lot for the morale of this country and no maybe this isn’t measureable for an article in The Independent, but hey I don’t care, it isn’t changing any time soon!

I made this personal? I'm not the one talking about my academic qualifications and my husband's career aspirations. I am just surprised at how often you are misreading and misprepresenting what I wrote for your own ends. I don't think I was unclear in anything I said.

 

[Pearls18]

You talked down to me over-stating my misreading of your comments, I am now being patronised by saying how I am disregarding “well-respected studies” when I did not disregard it I disputed some of the inferences made from it...what is uneducated about that?

It's hard to believe that it's possible to misunderstand three posts in a row and I think you're underestimating how frustrating it is when someone does that to you repeatedly. Now we have more of you putting words in my mouth. Where did I say you were "uneducated"?

That is exactly what we are taught to do as a students, trying to tell me what I should know as a history graduate, when you first made your claim you did not back it up with evidence, I pulled you up on it and claimed your sweeping statement was bullshit (which it was- there is no study to say “most will end up in prison” –which as a forces’ spouse I admit I jumped on because it’s hard not to take a little offense

Again, where did I say this? You even have the cheek to put quotation marks around it. Breathtaking. It just comes across as more (deliberate?) misunderstanding from someone who is obviously spoiling for a fight whenever someone dares to mention the armed forces.

I am on an internet forum not writing a dissertation, so yeah I said bullshit, deary me. I have debated my opinion, I have stated my opinion is not from studies but from my own experiences.

You're on an internet forum specially for debates. If you wanted to put your history degree to use you could use some of the skills you picked up on your course. Instead you come across as someone with an axe to grind who is very eager to misintepret what other people have to say and extremely easily offended. If you use "personal experience" instead of proper sources in your coursework you'll be failed quicker than you can imagine, so if a topic is so important to you, why weaken your argument by coming across as emotional and badly-informed?

If you want to re-read your comments and tell me they are not patronising than that is fine, but it is one thing disagreeing with someone and another to question my abilities. I don’t like where this is going because you have made this personal? I disagree with you, and so do a lot of the country, there is more to the Royal Family than facts and figures in terms of finances, they do a lot for the morale of this country and no maybe this isn’t measureable for an article in The Independent, but hey I don’t care, it isn’t changing any time soon!

I made this personal? I'm not the one talking about my academic qualifications and my husband's career aspirations. I am just surprised at how often you are misreading and misprepresenting what I wrote for your own ends. I don't think I was unclear in anything I said.

Right, I was at work I wasn't reading your posts with a lot of care, I didn't like what you had to say, I didn't have a lot of time to to write as eloquently as you to say why I disagree with you but I still stand by everything I have said. You made it personal by making me feel shit about my ability to formulate an argument to me that was personal not my circumstances which I chose to bring into the argument to explain why I felt the way I did about the topic- I don't think the OP was asking for an academic break down on monarchy in the UK with only studies and statistics for arguments, rather I mentioned my degree to explain my interest and nostalgia for the subject of monarchy not because I was trying to show off and put myself and my abilities up for ridicule. You're right I take things too personally for the debate section, I won't bother in future I've had enough of it today, you've put me in my place.

 

[Andypanda6570]

You talked down to me over-stating my misreading of your comments, I am now being patronised by saying how I am disregarding “well-respected studies” when I did not disregard it I disputed some of the inferences made from it...what is uneducated about that?

It's hard to believe that it's possible to misunderstand three posts in a row and I think you're underestimating how frustrating it is when someone does that to you repeatedly. Now we have more of you putting words in my mouth. Where did I say you were "uneducated"?

That is exactly what we are taught to do as a students, trying to tell me what I should know as a history graduate, when you first made your claim you did not back it up with evidence, I pulled you up on it and claimed your sweeping statement was bullshit (which it was- there is no study to say “most will end up in prison” –which as a forces’ spouse I admit I jumped on because it’s hard not to take a little offense

Again, where did I say this? You even have the cheek to put quotation marks around it. Breathtaking. It just comes across as more (deliberate?) misunderstanding from someone who is obviously spoiling for a fight whenever someone dares to mention the armed forces.

I am on an internet forum not writing a dissertation, so yeah I said bullshit, deary me. I have debated my opinion, I have stated my opinion is not from studies but from my own experiences.

You're on an internet forum specially for debates. If you wanted to put your history degree to use you could use some of the skills you picked up on your course. Instead you come across as someone with an axe to grind who is very eager to misintepret what other people have to say and extremely easily offended. If you use "personal experience" instead of proper sources in your coursework you'll be failed quicker than you can imagine, so if a topic is so important to you, why weaken your argument by coming across as emotional and badly-informed?

If you want to re-read your comments and tell me they are not patronising than that is fine, but it is one thing disagreeing with someone and another to question my abilities. I don’t like where this is going because you have made this personal? I disagree with you, and so do a lot of the country, there is more to the Royal Family than facts and figures in terms of finances, they do a lot for the morale of this country and no maybe this isn’t measureable for an article in The Independent, but hey I don’t care, it isn’t changing any time soon!

I made this personal? I'm not the one talking about my academic qualifications and my husband's career aspirations. I am just surprised at how often you are misreading and misprepresenting what I wrote for your own ends. I don't think I was unclear in anything I said.

Right, I was at work I wasn't reading your posts with a lot of care, I didn't like what you had to say, I didn't have a lot of time to to write as eloquently as you to say why I disagree with you but I still stand by everything I have said. You made it personal by making me feel shit about my ability to formulate an argument to me that was personal not my circumstances which I chose to bring into the argument to explain why I felt the way I did about the topic- I don't think the OP was asking for an academic break down on monarchy in the UK with only studies and statistics for arguments, rather I mentioned my degree to explain my interest and nostalgia for the subject of monarchy not because I was trying to show off and put myself and my abilities up for ridicule. You're right I take things too personally for the debate section, I won't bother in future I've had enough of it today, you've put me in my place.

I like you in the debate section and I like learning . I have a hard time expressing myself and opinions and you do it so eloquently as others . Please bother in the future, don't let one disagreement sway you..

 

[Piper84]

You talked down to me over-stating my misreading of your comments, I am now being patronised by saying how I am disregarding “well-respected studies” when I did not disregard it I disputed some of the inferences made from it...what is uneducated about that?

It's hard to believe that it's possible to misunderstand three posts in a row and I think you're underestimating how frustrating it is when someone does that to you repeatedly. Now we have more of you putting words in my mouth. Where did I say you were "uneducated"?

That is exactly what we are taught to do as a students, trying to tell me what I should know as a history graduate, when you first made your claim you did not back it up with evidence, I pulled you up on it and claimed your sweeping statement was bullshit (which it was- there is no study to say “most will end up in prison” –which as a forces’ spouse I admit I jumped on because it’s hard not to take a little offense

Again, where did I say this? You even have the cheek to put quotation marks around it. Breathtaking. It just comes across as more (deliberate?) misunderstanding from someone who is obviously spoiling for a fight whenever someone dares to mention the armed forces.

I am on an internet forum not writing a dissertation, so yeah I said bullshit, deary me. I have debated my opinion, I have stated my opinion is not from studies but from my own experiences.

You're on an internet forum specially for debates. If you wanted to put your history degree to use you could use some of the skills you picked up on your course. Instead you come across as someone with an axe to grind who is very eager to misintepret what other people have to say and extremely easily offended. If you use "personal experience" instead of proper sources in your coursework you'll be failed quicker than you can imagine, so if a topic is so important to you, why weaken your argument by coming across as emotional and badly-informed?

If you want to re-read your comments and tell me they are not patronising than that is fine, but it is one thing disagreeing with someone and another to question my abilities. I don’t like where this is going because you have made this personal? I disagree with you, and so do a lot of the country, there is more to the Royal Family than facts and figures in terms of finances, they do a lot for the morale of this country and no maybe this isn’t measureable for an article in The Independent, but hey I don’t care, it isn’t changing any time soon!

I made this personal? I'm not the one talking about my academic qualifications and my husband's career aspirations. I am just surprised at how often you are misreading and misprepresenting what I wrote for your own ends. I don't think I was unclear in anything I said.

Right, I was at work I wasn't reading your posts with a lot of care, I didn't like what you had to say, I didn't have a lot of time to to write as eloquently as you to say why I disagree with you but I still stand by everything I have said. You made it personal by making me feel shit about my ability to formulate an argument to me that was personal not my circumstances which I chose to bring into the argument to explain why I felt the way I did about the topic- I don't think the OP was asking for an academic break down on monarchy in the UK with only studies and statistics for arguments, rather I mentioned my degree to explain my interest and nostalgia for the subject of monarchy not because I was trying to show off and put myself and my abilities up for ridicule. You're right I take things too personally for the debate section, I won't bother in future I've had enough of it today, you've put me in my place.

Your "place"? It's called debate, in a section for the forum where people are allowed to get into heated discussions. Your posts came across as dismissive and an attempt to shout down any differing opinions. It happens. I'm not gonna get upset about it and don't see it as any reason to be defeatist.