Thoughts on this....??

[hot tea]

Formula has its place, for sure! I just believe that supply issues usually stem from a lack of education. Even midwives push bottles earlier than they should, it is a shame.

 

[cerrie311]

Well I obviously don't know what I'm talking about because a supply issue happened to me... so I'm off this thread

 

[midori1999]

Hot tea, whilst I would agree that most women who think they have supply problems don't, (its usually a support/lack of correct information issue) there are a minority of women who do have genuine supply problems and will never be able to EBF their baby, no matter what help or support they get.

That said, IMO, Donor milk is really the next best option to being able to BF yourself, but it's not for everyone.

 

[MizzDeeDee]

I really cannot fathom these supply issues. This will absolutely never happen to me.

The base to a good supply is:

Constant skin to skin
Constant suckling
Introducing no bottles
Leave soothers for after 6 weeks if possible
Use absolutely no substitutes such as formula
Do not try to express if it just doesnt work for you
Keep in mind if you do express, it does not reflect the amount of milk you have
Encapsulate your placenta and take ASAP

I think that a lot of women have supply issues because they make a mistakevery early on. The mistake usually involves a bottle.

That's not very nice of you to say and certainly not the case with me and I know others on here. Unless you can predict the future I wouldn't say such things to people either... and please let's not make this thread anti-formula.

EDIT: I saw your response.. fair enough- it certainly has it place... I don't think anyone can argue that BM isn't best.. but things happen.. I cried when I was told to ff her and I did everything right... and had a mother that BF us all.. very fustrating. I felt like such a failure.

 

[hot tea]

Hot tea, whilst I would agree that most women who think they have supply problems don't, (its usually a support/lack of correct information issue) there are a minority of women who do have genuine supply problems and will never be able to EBF their baby, no matter what help or support they get.

That said, IMO, Donor milk is really the next best option to being able to BF yourself, but it's not for everyone.

I agree, but it is a definite minority. I would also consider spending a small fortune on breastmilk instead of formula, if for some reason my supply failed.

I think a big issue is women do not realize that expressing and pumping does nothing to build a supply. Only the suckle of their baby will.

 

[midori1999]

Tell that last bit to my breasts, which produced copious amounts of milk in increasing quantities when I had to exclusively express last year! As a result of building my supply so fast then I ended up with massive oversupply this time.

 

[hot tea]

See, I could never express whatsoever.

I just meant in the first six weeks the thing that is going to really establish your supply will be your baby on the boob, not a machine. I am sure there are some lucky mamas out there who can pump out no matter what though!

From what I know that if struggling with your supply, stick the babe right on there and don't take them off, lol

 

[MizzDeeDee]

Tell that last bit to my breasts, which produced copious amounts of milk in increasing quantities when I had to exclusively express last year! As a result of building my supply so fast then I ended up with massive oversupply this time.

It doesn't always work that though.. I'll admit. My Endo(diabetes Doctor) when I was pregnant discussed this with me because all of her friends that BF could only BF to about two to three months and they would dry up. They all expressed exclusively and that's pretty hard to keep up a supply and I think to do.. I have to hand it to mothers.. like Aliss I think, that do this, I don't know how they do it.

Of course, I generally put her to breast 99.9% of the time but it was just a comedy of errors that conspired against me. It certainly upset me that I couldn't exclusively BF for as long as I wanted.. I first wanted to do only 6 months.. then I changed my mind to a year.. who knows how long I would have gone if I had been able to.

 

[lisaf]

lol, I got massive oversupply from pumping too... but I know women who couldn't get enough pumping. And my friend truly tried everything to get her supply up and couldn't. Her daughter still hadn't regained her birth weight at 3 weeks old and her ribs were sticking out so she got formula.. she tried combo feeding and pumping every 2-3 hours even through the night for another 2 months. It CAN happen.


While I am not trying to criticize anyone for extended BFing (and don't know how long I'll go myself), all the discussion here made me think. I am curious why 'self-weaning' is ideal for BFing... we don't let kids self-potty train, kids who use pacifiers don't always wean themselves and have to be weaned, kids who have a lovie often have to learn how to cope without it, etc. I'm not comparing the value/benefit/downside of any of these things (obviously pacifiers can cause harm after prolonged use), just that the urge to self-wean may not be there at the appropriate time and we have no problem pushing our child to stop other habits that are in the 'baby' category before they might be ready.

 

[bababas]

I think a big issue is women do not realize that expressing and pumping does nothing to build a supply. Only the suckle of their baby will.

did not work for me. even if i put him on every 30 minutes for 1 week. even if i ate like a pig and drunk water like an elephant.

dont forget that NOT all women or human bodies are the same.

about what the OP said. i dont mind the 4 year old BF. i find the old woman being rude to her friend. this again is because people wont accept that everybody is different. everywhere are different cultures and norms. everybody is different. can we do anything about that? we cannot change ourselves for everybody, the best thing is to accept who we are.

 

[hot tea]

I totally support self potty training!! Actually, my son just did this! One day he just told me he wanted to stop wearing diapers and poo and pee on the potty. Tha was one week, give or takea day, ago. He is now fully potty trained. I take zerocredit.

There is no innappropriate time for self weaning, in my opinion. Unless the mother is really really not okay with it, then why stop? I do things at my sons pace. I do not force him to do anything he isnt ready for.

And you know what? He is a very intelligent, vocal, wise child. He speaks up for his needs because he knows they will be met, or explained. Child led parenting all the way.

I am not saying I let him run wild btw... He knows the bounderies. I give him fair warnings for his actions, but I do not stop him from making mistakes (unless he will be dealt great physical harm).

 

[aliss]

I do agree that the majority of supply issues are down to lack of education and not actual supply. There are, of course, women who have very real supply issues no matter what they do (I can think of a few women on here who are still BF + supplementing at 1+ year for real need), but most girls simply don't understand
- You can't just give a bottle of formula
- Cluster feeding (honestly, how many threads are there of this? Soooo many girls don't understand why their newborns feed constantly, they think something is "wrong", I know I sure did!), it seems like people keep going on about 4 hour feeds this, 4 hour feeds that, where did that arbitrary number even come from?? A sleep training book?
- They don't get the concept of stimulating further milk production
And so on....

They just don't know. Hell, when I had to pump out of medical necessity as my son was injured in labour and couldn't breastfeed, I didn't understand how to pump. I thought every 6 hours was okay. I thought adding a bottle of formula (making it 12 hours!!) was okay. I was cluuuuuuuuuuueless. And the lactation nurse gave me bad information anyways

 

[freckleonear]

While I am not trying to criticize anyone for extended BFing (and don't know how long I'll go myself), all the discussion here made me think. I am curious why 'self-weaning' is ideal for BFing... we don't let kids self-potty train, kids who use pacifiers don't always wean themselves and have to be weaned, kids who have a lovie often have to learn how to cope without it, etc. I'm not comparing the value/benefit/downside of any of these things (obviously pacifiers can cause harm after prolonged use), just that the urge to self-wean may not be there at the appropriate time and we have no problem pushing our child to stop other habits that are in the 'baby' category before they might be ready.

I guess for me it boils down to the fact that nature normally knows best. Anthropological evidence shows that the natural weaning age for humans is any time up to about 7 years, whereas weaning babies from the breast at about one year is a very modern and Western idea. Just as there's no point trying to potty train a child who is not physically ready, weaning readiness is a developmental milestone and some children reach it before others. Psychological research has suggested that weaning before a child is ready can have a negative effect and that "Meeting a child’s dependency needs, according to that child’s unique timetable, is the key to helping that child achieve independence. Children who achieve independence at their own pace are more secure in that independence then children forced into independence prematurely." Of course it's not always that simple and sometimes as parents we have to make decisions that might not be the most natural way, because the benefits outweigh the risks (such as weaning from a dummy because of the dental risks). I do agree that there is an attitude in our society of pushing children into or out of behaviour before they might be ready, but I certainly don't think that's a positive thing.

 

[hot tea]

Yep, I am just so very thankful I was surrounded by well educated, crunchy midwives. They helped me a lot. Every mom is absolutly clueless in the very beginning (how can you know these things ?) it is so difficult when there is conflicting information.

 

[MizzDeeDee]

I do agree that the majority of supply issues are down to lack of education and not actual supply. There are, of course, women who have very real supply issues no matter what they do (I can think of a few women on here who are still BF + supplementing at 1+ year for real need), but most girls simply don't understand
- You can't just give a bottle of formula
- Cluster feeding (honestly, how many threads are there of this? Soooo many girls don't understand why their newborns feed constantly, they think something is "wrong", I know I sure did!), it seems like people keep going on about 4 hour feeds this, 4 hour feeds that, where did that arbitrary number even come from?? A sleep training book?
- They don't get the concept of stimulating further milk production
And so on....

They just don't know. Hell, when I had to pump out of medical necessity as my son was injured in labour and couldn't breastfeed, I didn't understand how to pump. I thought every 6 hours was okay. I thought adding a bottle of formula (making it 12 hours!!) was okay. I was cluuuuuuuuuuueless. And the lactation nurse gave me bad information anyways

^^^This. I agree.. there isn't a lot of correct information sometimes. When I was in the Hospital I couldn't get Corrine to latch on one breast correctly and they put me on a nipple shield.... I think that caused me to have issues with supply on that breast because they don't explain it should be used short term.

No one tells you about the constant feeding either.I was lucky because I tried to educate myself and I knew about the cluster feedings but I actually had a friend who put.. and I can't believe she did this... rice in her son's bottle at 2 weeks because all he wanted to do was eat and she thought he was starving.

 

[Ashley8806]

I just find it sad that you are not allowed to have a different view or opinion on something around here without you being wrong. Just because I, and some others, have different views on things, does not mean our views are wrong. I stated my opinion, as others have done. I am 100% for breastfeeding, and said that in my OP. All I said is that I personally would not BF a 4 year old, and I would feel uncomfortable if my 3 year old daughter saw it in public. That is my view. You all have your view. I just find this sad that it seems everyone is supposed to feel the same exact way on everything or get spoke to like I'm an uneducated devil woman because I have different view on things. Very sad

It does make me sad too that she has stopped breastfeeding because of the comments made to her. I know I would never actually say anything to anyone I saw breastfeeding, at any age. It's not my place to do so.

 

[Wantingbbbump]

I breastfeed my son until he was almost 6. He stopped on his own and I still had a ton of milk. I nursed him while out but not at 5 I might have at 4 though. If he got hurt or wasn't feeling well. I don't think your friend was doing anything wrong!! The lady the yelled at her was wrong though. It's your friends breasts and her child there for her choice. Just like it was mine to allow my son to nurse as long as he wanted to. I will also let this baby nurse as long as it wants to. I am a self weaning mommy. It's the baby's choice not mine. After I had my son I would also pump out BM for my girls too. My fridge was full of BM..By the gallons!! We don't buy cows milk when I am bf'ing because my body makes so much..NJ I make a ton..lol

 

[Wantingbbbump]

He would always grab at my opposite boob, and twist my nipple then pull it as hard as he could... Then stare at me with huge starry eyes. He KNEW it annoyed me, haha!! I always kept a poker face but he saw riiiight through me.

OMG my son did the same thing, from the day he was born, the first time I ever latched him on he would twist/pull on the other nipple. I never understood what he was doing or why because my girls never did that. Is it a boy thing?

 

[lisaf]

I guess I don't see self-weaning as inherently natural... mammals in the wild often stop nursing their babies before the babies choose to.. quite often actually.

I think another reason why I would stop before the age of 4 is that I would want to teach my child about personal space and respecting others.. cuddles are one thing, but the demands of a nursing toddler (lifting shirt up in public etc) can be teaching something I wouldn't want them to.

Again.. not criticising, here, just discussing the parenting philosophy behind not waiting for a child to self-wean.

 

[venusrockstar]

I would have told the lady to mind her own &#%&%^& business. Nosy cow.

I personally wouldn't feed my daughter that long, but it's really no one else's business.