Time Outs to be banned In Australian Childcare

[Ashley8806]

In my daughters daycare they have their pictures on the floor. If they are naughty, they have to go sit on their picture. My daughter once said to me that she doesn't want to have to sit on her picture anymore because it's not fun to watch the other kids play while she can't. She hasn't been back on the picture in a long time. She learned her lesson not to pinch other children.

 

[Nibblenic]

I think we have to be open to the fact that every child and parent is different.
People be they children or adults react to different triggers. Some people have very little regard for others health/happiness so explaining or understanding that someone else was hurt has little effect.
Some kids you only need to look at to stop them doing something undesirable, some you just need to talk to them in a certain tone, some need physically removing before they'll stop.
I think they key in adjusting undesirable behavior is finding what triggers you own individual child has.

Although time outs/spanking are not for me and Zoe right now I cannot rule out other forms of discipline in the future depending on how her behavior or personalty may change

 

[Lightworker]

I'll explain what I do with my DD1 to illustrate.

If she walks into a puddle without wellies on, I will say, we shouldn't walk into puddles without wellies on as it makes your socks wet, and your feet cold. She will do it several more times granted, but after a while, it will sink in. One day, she avoided the puddle and said "you see Mommy, I am not walking into the puddle, because I don't want my feet wet".

That is a mild example..really but it shows she has learnt cause and effect. Children, LIKE ADULTS, take time to learn things, sometimes more than others.

We have adults who will be rude to someone, because they are sleep-deprived, and they'll turn around and say "oh gosh I am so sorry, I am just so tired"..and they will be forgiven, no problems. Why do you expect a child to learn everything once and instantly.

It is human to err. Why are we wanting our children to be perfect?

Even with spanking, parents who spank regularly, for the most part, will tell you they never spanked "once" and the behaviour automatically improved. They had to spank and spank and spank.

Children are learning, and some of that "negative behaviour" is them learning, yet we are quick to punish them for learning

Anyway, the point I am trying to illustrate is that you don't need time-outs or more severe punishment. In fact, I struggle to accept the assertion that some personalities don't respond to gentle guidance.

If gentle guidance is used from the offset, and everything else is "normal"..why wouldn't an innocent child, who has not learnt malice, not respond? If they don't respond it is not due to malice, it is due to perhaps higher levels of curiosity meaning that they are more inclined to explore etc. That is not a quality to "punish" but to channel positively.

x

 

[Blah11]

yeah but who would put their child in a time out for walking in a puddle? Like I said before, time outs in this house occur maybe once a fortnight if that and its because shes doing something she already KNOWS not to do. Its a punishment for doing something that she is well aware is naughty more than it is to learn not to do something. Like, if she hits me. She knows fine well not to hit people so I give her a warning and ask her not do it again. Mostly she says sorry and doesn't but sometimes she does it anyway so she goes on the bottom of the stairs and sits there for maybe.. 30secs-1min (i dont make her sit there for 2 mins) and then asks if she can say sorry and we have a hug. I dont see how thats damaging at all. much better than spanking or shouting at her IMO.

 

[Nibblenic]

In fact, I struggle to accept the assertion that some personalities don't respond to gentle guidance.

If gentle guidance is used from the offset, and everything else is "normal"..why wouldn't an innocent child, who has not learnt malice, not respond? If they don't respond it is not due to malice, it is due to perhaps higher levels of curiosity meaning that they are more inclined to explore etc. That is not a quality to "punish" but to channel positively.

x

I do agree to a certain point hun. I also use the 'if you do A, B will happen, like that see' sort of parenting for the most part. I have done more severe punishments for things like bitting/hitting and contrary from what you say Lo has only bitten once, she obviously didnt like the outcome.

I also agree that you have to do this gentle guidance thing (although i think that term doesnt really describe what I do) from almost day one for it to work effectively. I dont think it is something that will resolve a negative pattern of behavior is it has already been set in place.

I also dont think parents look at themselves enough when they look at their childrens behavior.

My Lo recently corrected my parenting (yeah shes like that!) She went though a short phase of saying no to EVERYTHING and not doing as she was asked (which is unlike her) So I though oh well short phase she'll get over it soon enough. Then one day she came out with "Mummy you didnt say please!" She was right I was asking her to do stuff without saying please (im more of a thank you person) But I make her say please when she wants something otherwise I dont do it :doh: :doh: :doh: So thats my lesson learned.

What if you have a child who naturally has a short fuse and aggressive temper though. Surely if they are lashing out and parents and siblings they need to be removed from where the family is?

 

[lesleyann]

We do use time outs but only if kyle is being really bad.. First will ask nicely to stop, if he does not I will sit with him and explain why he should stop and that if he does not he will go into the naughty corner.. This is normaly for trying to pull the tv on top of himself or biting! But when I put him in there for his "2mins" I will tell him when he is sorry to come give mummy and cuddle and say sorry. He never stays in there for the full time and always comes out saying sorry and gives a huge cuddle

 

[smelly07]

I'm sorry i just dont think there is any need for time outs, and especially for children under school age particularly the under 3's...........i dont think their behaviour is naughty its normal, They are learning, they dont have the language to express themselves properly, they dont understand fully yet. its frustrating being a toddler in this crazy world..... i would also not be happy if a daycare/nursery/pre school used a 'time out' method of any sort, i think like someone else said its very humiliating for that child and imo could damage the child in other ways.

heres a link some people may like to read.

https://www.ahaparenting.com/parenting-tools/positive-discipline/timeouts

 

[Lightworker]

yeah but who would put their child in a time out for walking in a puddle? Like I said before, time outs in this house occur maybe once a fortnight if that and its because shes doing something she already KNOWS not to do. Its a punishment for doing something that she is well aware is naughty more than it is to learn not to do something. Like, if she hits me. She knows fine well not to hit people so I give her a warning and ask her not do it again. Mostly she says sorry and doesn't but sometimes she does it anyway so she goes on the bottom of the stairs and sits there for maybe.. 30secs-1min (i dont make her sit there for 2 mins) and then asks if she can say sorry and we have a hug. I dont see how thats damaging at all. much better than spanking or shouting at her IMO.

yeah lol, I couldn't find a better example than the wellies, but I mentioned it because once I was walking with a friend, and my DD1 stepped into the puddle, and my friend told me to hit her

The message one sends with time-out is that if you do something negative, you desevre to be removed from my presence..it lends a conditionable quality to the parent in that..when you do something wrong, get away from me for X amount of time, then come back.

x

 

[Lightworker]

in fact, i struggle to accept the assertion that some personalities don't respond to gentle guidance.

If gentle guidance is used from the offset, and everything else is "normal"..why wouldn't an innocent child, who has not learnt malice, not respond? If they don't respond it is not due to malice, it is due to perhaps higher levels of curiosity meaning that they are more inclined to explore etc. That is not a quality to "punish" but to channel positively.

X

i do agree to a certain point hun. I also use the 'if you do a, b will happen, like that see' sort of parenting for the most part. I have done more severe punishments for things like bitting/hitting and contrary from what you say lo has only bitten once, she obviously didnt like the outcome.

I also agree that you have to do this gentle guidance thing (although i think that term doesnt really describe what i do) from almost day one for it to work effectively. I dont think it is something that will resolve a negative pattern of behavior is it has already been set in place.

I also dont think parents look at themselves enough when they look at their childrens behavior.

My lo recently corrected my parenting (yeah shes like that!) she went though a short phase of saying no to everything and not doing as she was asked (which is unlike her) so i though oh well short phase she'll get over it soon enough. Then one day she came out with "mummy you didnt say please!" she was right i was asking her to do stuff without saying please (im more of a thank you person) but i make her say please when she wants something otherwise i dont do it :doh: :doh: :doh: So thats my lesson learned.

What if you have a child who naturally has a short fuse and aggressive temper though. Surely if they are lashing out and parents and siblings they need to be removed from where the family is?

duplicate

 

[Lightworker]

In fact, I struggle to accept the assertion that some personalities don't respond to gentle guidance.

If gentle guidance is used from the offset, and everything else is "normal"..why wouldn't an innocent child, who has not learnt malice, not respond? If they don't respond it is not due to malice, it is due to perhaps higher levels of curiosity meaning that they are more inclined to explore etc. That is not a quality to "punish" but to channel positively.

x

I do agree to a certain point hun. I also use the 'if you do A, B will happen, like that see' sort of parenting for the most part. I have done more severe punishments for things like bitting/hitting and contrary from what you say Lo has only bitten once, she obviously didnt like the outcome.

I also agree that you have to do this gentle guidance thing (although i think that term doesnt really describe what I do) from almost day one for it to work effectively. I dont think it is something that will resolve a negative pattern of behavior is it has already been set in place.

I also dont think parents look at themselves enough when they look at their childrens behavior.

My Lo recently corrected my parenting (yeah shes like that!) She went though a short phase of saying no to EVERYTHING and not doing as she was asked (which is unlike her) So I though oh well short phase she'll get over it soon enough. Then one day she came out with "Mummy you didnt say please!" She was right I was asking her to do stuff without saying please (im more of a thank you person) But I make her say please when she wants something otherwise I dont do it :doh: :doh: :doh: So thats my lesson learned.

What if you have a child who naturally has a short fuse and aggressive temper though. Surely if they are lashing out and parents and siblings they need to be removed from where the family is?

with a child who is directing his aggression towards siblings etc..ofcourse you need to protect the other children, but I would be inclined to embrace the child in a cuddle and find out what the mnatter is. I am big on encouraging children to verbalize their feelings as opposed to physically acting out.

My DD1 when she is upset, eg sometimes I will notice she hasn't had a wee in a few hours, and me,fearful for my carpet, will ask her to go and have a wee, and sometimes she hates it, and will stomp up the stairs in a huff. I usually try and give her a cuddle, and tell her, if she is upset, to tell me, talk about it, and that makes everyone feel better.

With the aggressive child in your example, I would try the same. Keep cuddling them..basically this..meet their behaviour with love.

In adult life, if you encounter and angry person, if you give them a hug, the anger will dissipate and they might break down and cry or whatever...but if you meet their anger with your own indignation..it is likely they will escalate and try to justify their anger as a defence mechanism.

Anyway, thats just my thinking. x

 

[marley2580]

yeah but who would put their child in a time out for walking in a puddle? Like I said before, time outs in this house occur maybe once a fortnight if that and its because shes doing something she already KNOWS not to do. Its a punishment for doing something that she is well aware is naughty more than it is to learn not to do something. Like, if she hits me. She knows fine well not to hit people so I give her a warning and ask her not do it again. Mostly she says sorry and doesn't but sometimes she does it anyway so she goes on the bottom of the stairs and sits there for maybe.. 30secs-1min (i dont make her sit there for 2 mins) and then asks if she can say sorry and we have a hug. I dont see how thats damaging at all. much better than spanking or shouting at her IMO.

yeah lol, I couldn't find a better example than the wellies, but I mentioned it because once I was walking with a friend, and my DD1 stepped into the puddle, and my friend told me to hit her

The message one sends with time-out is that if you do something negative, you desevre to be removed from my presence..it lends a conditionable quality to the parent in that..when you do something wrong, get away from me for X amount of time, then come back.

x

But this is exactly what happens in society - if you behave in an anti social way then people don't want to socialise with you. This is how I approach time outs, if my child behaves anti socially then I will remove them from society for a short time - this, to me, IS a natural consequence.

Also, there are some things where the natural consequence are too far away to make a difference to a child. E.g. last night Blythe refused to let her dad finish brushing her teeth (she wanted me to do it lol), he gave her numerous chances to let him and told her that if she didn't let him then she would have to sit in the corner until she was willing to give in. Now the natural consequence of not brushing your teeth is for them to get holes etc, but that is too far a reaching consequence for a 2 year old to understand. Sometimes, we feel, a child just has to accept that a parent knows better.

 

[marley2580]

In fact, I struggle to accept the assertion that some personalities don't respond to gentle guidance.

If gentle guidance is used from the offset, and everything else is "normal"..why wouldn't an innocent child, who has not learnt malice, not respond? If they don't respond it is not due to malice, it is due to perhaps higher levels of curiosity meaning that they are more inclined to explore etc. That is not a quality to "punish" but to channel positively.

x

I do agree to a certain point hun. I also use the 'if you do A, B will happen, like that see' sort of parenting for the most part. I have done more severe punishments for things like bitting/hitting and contrary from what you say Lo has only bitten once, she obviously didnt like the outcome.

I also agree that you have to do this gentle guidance thing (although i think that term doesnt really describe what I do) from almost day one for it to work effectively. I dont think it is something that will resolve a negative pattern of behavior is it has already been set in place.

I also dont think parents look at themselves enough when they look at their childrens behavior.

My Lo recently corrected my parenting (yeah shes like that!) She went though a short phase of saying no to EVERYTHING and not doing as she was asked (which is unlike her) So I though oh well short phase she'll get over it soon enough. Then one day she came out with "Mummy you didnt say please!" She was right I was asking her to do stuff without saying please (im more of a thank you person) But I make her say please when she wants something otherwise I dont do it :doh: :doh: :doh: So thats my lesson learned.

What if you have a child who naturally has a short fuse and aggressive temper though. Surely if they are lashing out and parents and siblings they need to be removed from where the family is?

with a child who is directing his aggression towards siblings etc..ofcourse you need to protect the other children, but I would be inclined to embrace the child in a cuddle and find out what the mnatter is. I am big on encouraging children to verbalize their feelings as opposed to physically acting out.

My DD1 when she is upset, eg sometimes I will notice she hasn't had a wee in a few hours, and me,fearful for my carpet, will ask her to go and have a wee, and sometimes she hates it, and will stomp up the stairs in a huff. I usually try and give her a cuddle, and tell her, if she is upset, to tell me, talk about it, and that makes everyone feel better.

With the aggressive child in your example, I would try the same. Keep cuddling them..basically this..meet their behaviour with love.

In adult life, if you encounter and angry person, if you give them a hug, the anger will dissipate and they might break down and cry or whatever...but if you meet their anger with your own indignation..it is likely they will escalate and try to justify their anger as a defence mechanism.

Anyway, thats just my thinking. x

Or they might punch you lol. Sorry, had to be said.

 

[Ashley8806]

I just don't agree with cuddling with a child who has done something wrong. To me, that is sending the wrong message. If they are upset about something, sure. But if they are biting, hitting, throwing something that could break a window, etc, I don't see how cuddling will show them right from wrong.

 

[Mum2b_Claire]

It depends what age you mean though, I know when my child does things 'wrong' e.g pulling my hair there is always a reason why, she is tired, or bored usually. I don't think it is an issue of her not knowing right from wrong. She knows that it's not something we do but at her age she lacks impulse control and I'm not going to punish her for something that stems from developmental immaturity.

 

[Ashley8806]

When my daughter was younger and she would do something like pull hair or bite, etc, We would take her hand away from the problem and firmly say no, that hurts. Now that she is older, if she does something like this, we may discipline her depending on the situation. I agree it does have to do with age, but I still would not have cuddled her when she was younger and she pulled my hair or bit.

 

[Lightworker]

yeah but who would put their child in a time out for walking in a puddle? Like I said before, time outs in this house occur maybe once a fortnight if that and its because shes doing something she already KNOWS not to do. Its a punishment for doing something that she is well aware is naughty more than it is to learn not to do something. Like, if she hits me. She knows fine well not to hit people so I give her a warning and ask her not do it again. Mostly she says sorry and doesn't but sometimes she does it anyway so she goes on the bottom of the stairs and sits there for maybe.. 30secs-1min (i dont make her sit there for 2 mins) and then asks if she can say sorry and we have a hug. I dont see how thats damaging at all. much better than spanking or shouting at her IMO.

yeah lol, I couldn't find a better example than the wellies, but I mentioned it because once I was walking with a friend, and my DD1 stepped into the puddle, and my friend told me to hit her

The message one sends with time-out is that if you do something negative, you desevre to be removed from my presence..it lends a conditionable quality to the parent in that..when you do something wrong, get away from me for X amount of time, then come back.

x

But this is exactly what happens in society - if you behave in an anti social way then people don't want to socialise with you. This is how I approach time outs, if my child behaves anti socially then I will remove them from society for a short time - this, to me, IS a natural consequence.

Also, there are some things where the natural consequence are too far away to make a difference to a child. E.g. last night Blythe refused to let her dad finish brushing her teeth (she wanted me to do it lol), he gave her numerous chances to let him and told her that if she didn't let him then she would have to sit in the corner until she was willing to give in. Now the natural consequence of not brushing your teeth is for them to get holes etc, but that is too far a reaching consequence for a 2 year old to understand. Sometimes, we feel, a child just has to accept that a parent knows better.

Yeah I appreciate that is what can happen in society, but that doesn't make it right and more importantly, that doesn't make it natural.

For me, a big part of parenting is unconditional love. Time-out does the exact opposite (obviously to the parent you know you love your child no matter what, but the child is not so sure because he is being temporarily removed from his parents).

I think I work on the basis that we want to show our children that no matter what they do, they still have us. That we acknowledge that they make mistakes, but it is natural to make mistakes, and we are all learning how to be better versions of ourselves.

Incidentally, in adulthood, alot of people see therapists to try and get over guilt and shame they have accumulated over the years, so in essence, these are habits they are trying to unlearn. So if in adulthood one is trying to unlearn guilt and shame, why are we then trying to instil these in our children?

Also...if someone does something wrong to me, in order to act in line with my higher self, I am obligated to treat them with compassion and forgiveness. Time-out is not in line with this at all, it does the exact opposite. x

 

[Lightworker]

I just don't agree with cuddling with a child who has done something wrong. To me, that is sending the wrong message. If they are upset about something, sure. But if they are biting, hitting, throwing something that could break a window, etc, I don't see how cuddling will show them right from wrong.

Its not cuddling in a simplistic sense. The cuddle is essential to show the child that you love them, in spite of their "negative" behaviour. That is a CRUCIAL aspect. They need to know they are loved unconditionally.

In addition to the cuddle, you are talking to the child, get to the bottom of the behaviour, help your child to express themselves more positively.

The cuddle is an act of compassion as well. Its an "I understand you are angry" x

 

[Lightworker]

In fact, I struggle to accept the assertion that some personalities don't respond to gentle guidance.

If gentle guidance is used from the offset, and everything else is "normal"..why wouldn't an innocent child, who has not learnt malice, not respond? If they don't respond it is not due to malice, it is due to perhaps higher levels of curiosity meaning that they are more inclined to explore etc. That is not a quality to "punish" but to channel positively.

x

I do agree to a certain point hun. I also use the 'if you do A, B will happen, like that see' sort of parenting for the most part. I have done more severe punishments for things like bitting/hitting and contrary from what you say Lo has only bitten once, she obviously didnt like the outcome.

I also agree that you have to do this gentle guidance thing (although i think that term doesnt really describe what I do) from almost day one for it to work effectively. I dont think it is something that will resolve a negative pattern of behavior is it has already been set in place.

I also dont think parents look at themselves enough when they look at their childrens behavior.

My Lo recently corrected my parenting (yeah shes like that!) She went though a short phase of saying no to EVERYTHING and not doing as she was asked (which is unlike her) So I though oh well short phase she'll get over it soon enough. Then one day she came out with "Mummy you didnt say please!" She was right I was asking her to do stuff without saying please (im more of a thank you person) But I make her say please when she wants something otherwise I dont do it :doh: :doh: :doh: So thats my lesson learned.

What if you have a child who naturally has a short fuse and aggressive temper though. Surely if they are lashing out and parents and siblings they need to be removed from where the family is?

with a child who is directing his aggression towards siblings etc..ofcourse you need to protect the other children, but I would be inclined to embrace the child in a cuddle and find out what the mnatter is. I am big on encouraging children to verbalize their feelings as opposed to physically acting out.

My DD1 when she is upset, eg sometimes I will notice she hasn't had a wee in a few hours, and me,fearful for my carpet, will ask her to go and have a wee, and sometimes she hates it, and will stomp up the stairs in a huff. I usually try and give her a cuddle, and tell her, if she is upset, to tell me, talk about it, and that makes everyone feel better.

With the aggressive child in your example, I would try the same. Keep cuddling them..basically this..meet their behaviour with love.

In adult life, if you encounter and angry person, if you give them a hug, the anger will dissipate and they might break down and cry or whatever...but if you meet their anger with your own indignation..it is likely they will escalate and try to justify their anger as a defence mechanism.

Anyway, thats just my thinking. x

Or they might punch you lol. Sorry, had to be said.

Lol yeah, I did think that.

 

[Ashley8806]

I just don't agree with cuddling with a child who has done something wrong. To me, that is sending the wrong message. If they are upset about something, sure. But if they are biting, hitting, throwing something that could break a window, etc, I don't see how cuddling will show them right from wrong.

Its not cuddling in a simplistic sense. The cuddle is essential to show the child that you love them, in spite of their "negative" behaviour. That is a CRUCIAL aspect. They need to know they are loved unconditionally.

In addition to the cuddle, you are talking to the child, get to the bottom of the behaviour, help your child to express themselves more positively.

The cuddle is an act of compassion as well. Its an "I understand you are angry" x

After the time out or discipline, I am sure to talk to her and explain what was done wrong. We hug, and it's over. In the real world, if you break the law, you aren't cuddled and explained what is wrong. You are punished, and if bad enough sent to jail, hence removed.

 

[Nibblenic]

Thing is though children do not have the same cognitively ability as adults. There are concepts they simply do not understand, like death, consequence, impulse, different types of attention. These are things they learn slowly all the way up to 18.

I have looked into positive parenting links that have been given out and it does seem to have some similar to what we do. However it seems to be strongly based on a very good bond with the parent and child. I think you have to accept that in today's society not everyone has a good bond/relationship with their kids.