To drink or not to drink?

[ShanandBoc]

Of course you do My_first I agree tho that no one should be calling anyone else names!!!

But personally i dont think you can compare alcohol (or any other drug for that matter) to vaccinations, food etc xo

 

[babybear75]

Ladies alcohol is a drug and is addictive. Would you give your newborn a cigarette to smoke or blow it in its face? How abut a line of crack? Shoot him or her up with meth? How is there any difference all have been proven in one way or another to cause birth defects...why chance it? And in my opionion if you are not woman enough to make a sacarifice for 9 months to ensure the health of your baby why get pregnant? There are so many woman out there who would do anything to have a baby and yet those of you who fall pregnant easily or not so easily and then think drinking during your pregnancy is okay...I think is selfish whether you like that answer or not.

PREACH ON SISTER!!!
It was said earlier, that in the UK a child over the age of 5 can have alcohol within their home.

They drink because they "enjoy" a drink. It's sad honestly.

hi, just because some old old law states children under five can have beer at home dosen't mean it happens. i have never known this to happen its just a crazy law that stills in place. please don't think the uk is full of drunk 5 year olds. . . .we wait till at least they are 13 before we fill them full of booze! (LOL! joke)

 

[Amygdala]

As with all of these things there is no evidence one way or another, and so I make a choice, as I will with all of the decisions that I amd my OH have to make on our child.

I'm sorry, I kept out of this because I know there's no convincing some people, especially if things get heated. BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE! There's is plenty of evidence that alcohol causes brain damage. It's a fact. Alcohol, biologically speaking, is a poison and it does damage your neurons. This damage is very small in small quantities. And there's nothing wrong with deciding to accept that risk in exchange for your own pleasure when you're not pregnant. But I just don't understand why you would take even the tiniest risk to your baby in exchange for any amount of your own pleasure. Even if you're not convinced by the evidence that it's dangerous, there is absolutely NO evidence that it's safe. So why take the risk? What for? I personally don't understand why having the odd drink can be so important.

And as for people feeling they are being judged and shouldn't be: Surely you would agree that people are in the wrong for doing certain thing during pregnancy (e.g. Smoking pot, smoking generally, doing hard drugs...) because they are harmful to the baby. This debate really depends on whether or not you think that alcohol damages your baby. The people that are so passionate about pregnant women not drinking in pregnancy believe that drinking will harm your baby. They argue this point to try and convince people so their babies are protected. If they didn't care they could just rest safe in the knowledge that their baby is going to be alright and not care about what everyone else does.

 

[ShanandBoc]

As with all of these things there is no evidence one way or another, and so I make a choice, as I will with all of the decisions that I amd my OH have to make on our child.

I'm sorry, I kept out of this because I know there's no convincing some people, especially if things get heated. BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE! There's is plenty of evidence that alcohol causes brain damage. It's a fact. Alcohol, biologically speaking, is a poison and it does damage your neurons. This damage is very small in small quantities. And there's nothing wrong with deciding to accept that risk in exchange for your own pleasure when you're not pregnant. But I just don't understand why you would take even the tiniest risk to your baby in exchange for any amount of your own pleasure. Even if you're not convinced by the evidence that it's dangerous, there is absolutely NO evidence that it's safe. So why take the risk? What for? I personally don't understand why having the odd drink can be so important.

And as for people feeling they are being judged and shouldn't be: Surely you would agree that people are in the wrong for doing certain thing during pregnancy (e.g. Smoking pot, smoking generally, doing hard drugs...) because they are harmful to the baby. This debate really depends on whether or not you think that alcohol damages your baby. The people that are so passionate about pregnant women not drinking in pregnancy believe that drinking will harm your baby. They argue this point to try and convince people so their babies are protected. If they didn't care they could just rest safe in the knowledge that their baby is going to be alright and not care about what everyone else does.

 

[polo_princess]

I see this thread is still full of bad attitude even after numerous warnings

Final warning, this thread will be closed if it continues.

And also, please STOP WRITING LIKE THIS, its bad forum ettiquette.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

As with all of these things there is no evidence one way or another, and so I make a choice, as I will with all of the decisions that I amd my OH have to make on our child. Just becuase I choose a different option to you, doesnt make me wrong.

Right, FAS/FAE is not evidence at all that alcohol causes disabilities and metal ******ation in children at all.
https://www.chem-tox.com/pregnancy/alcohol.htm#FASmoderate

 

[ShanandBoc]

Oh boy, bye bye thread

 

[Dragonfly]

I have learned a lot from BrandiCanucks contributions to this thread I find her very interesting and knowledgeable.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I agree but warnings have been ignored....which really then defeats the purpose xo

 

[BrandiCanucks]

Thank you Dragonfly. Honestly, professional opinions aside, as a special needs mother it really just kills me to see expectant parents knowingly and willingly risking disabilities in their child. Raising a special needs child is not just leaving your child in their wheelchair to drool, and tube feeding them a various times throughout the day. It is constant supervision, inability to potty train because of developmental age in comparison to chronological age. My daughter is 3 1/2 with the mentality of an 18 month old. My 21-month-old son, developmentally, is ahead of her, and while I'm proud of that, it makes me sad to know his sister, 20-months-older, is falling behind.

Raising a special needs child is multiple and constant doctor appointments and hospital trips. It's the inability to teach your child not to run into the road and why. It's feeding difficulties, sleeping difficulties, and that's just for the parents.

It kills me when my daughter gets so frustrated because she can't tell us that she doesn't want to Pirate colouring book, but the Princess one, or she wants to green marker, not the red one. She will throw 45 minute long tantrums because of her communication delays. She's learning to communicate with pictures, which is great and she's come a long way since we started that, but you can still see her frustrations. Knowing I can't help her any further makes me so upset with myself, which is why I got into the field that I did. I want to be able to help other kids like her, with speech difficulties and other disorders. I work my ass off to make sure my daughter can succeed to the best of her abilities and I want to do the same for other kids with disabilities.

This is why I am so passionate about prevention. I don't understand how any parent can completely disregard the evidence and information out there, regardless of whether it's from their own country or not, to "enjoy a drink" at the risk of their baby's health. It baffles me, it really really does. I'm not saying this is the reason behind why mothers choose to drink during pregnancy, but if it's so they get extra money from the government, then I'm sorry, but that is very selfish and immature. What I wouldn't give to have been able to prevent my daughter's disabilities and not have to accept her disability payment every month.

So if I can spread information and my knowledge, it's up to the parents to accept it, but even if it saves only one baby from preventable damage and disabilities, if it means I helped just one child, it's completely worth it.

 

[Dragonfly]

I looked after speical needs children and young adults to all pushed into a home where parents didnt want them, my own sister has special needs so i woudnt take the risk as its not a walk in the park at all. Sadly I know people that want something to be wrong with thier children so they can get DLA and more money and other benefits, having something wrong with your child to me is not worth any extra money I rather my child be fit, healthy and enjoy life. I am not saying they where all caused by alcohol as they where not but if theres a chance I would never take it. I even dont drink and I still breastfeed , I know I can have one but I dont well as I am pregnant again I wont. I dont take risks as I couldnt live with myself if sometihng where to happen, loads of my mates said I should be on my motorbike still, I wont. Personal choice I rather be safe than sorry.

Thats just my opinion and how I feel in case any one is thinking i am digging at them. I have no medical training its just what I see.

 

[MADLYSBOYS]

I have just read this thread ladies from beginning to end and I find it extremely rude and inpolite referring to the ladies who choose to have the occasional drink as `they` and `them` amongst other things!

As a bnb member who wasnt included in the initial conversation I would like to say to the administrator this thread should be closed and its threads like this that make me feel ashamed to be part of bnb

 

[My_First]

As with all of these things there is no evidence one way or another, and so I make a choice, as I will with all of the decisions that I amd my OH have to make on our child. Just becuase I choose a different option to you, doesnt make me wrong.

Right, FAS/FAE is not evidence at all that alcohol causes disabilities and metal ******ation in children at all.
https://www.chem-tox.com/pregnancy/alcohol.htm#FASmoderate

That link, itself, supports my point it says in the studies, quote, '2-3 drinks per day'. 'In excess of 5 drinks in one session', 5 plus drinks a day', 'known to be heavy drinkers', 'prolonged periods' etc etc. I did not say it doesnt cause problems, please, I said there is no link between small amounts and FAS/FAE. Also I am unsure where you eblive that mothers 'may' use getting money off the Govenment as a reason? Yes, I believe that is selfish and irresponsible, not sure why you would make that assumption though that woemn would do that? I am not having a go at you Brandi, you clearly are very passionate about the subject, but, please youo do also need to let other people have their own opinions and have freedom of choice in all matters relating to their pregnancies.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

Please tell me where you get you get your evidence that small amounts of alcohol do not cause FAE. I'm very interested, because all my evidence and links say it does. Did you even read the entire page from beginning to end? Further down the page it goes more in depth about how low amounts of alcohol are linked to learning disabilities and behavioural issues.

I can't believe with all the evidence in front of you, you still choose to believe there is no link and still choose to be blind to the reality. Is it going to take your child being born with FAE or FAS before you decide to consider the evidence? I really hope that for your child's sake, that isn't the case. This isn't about you, it's about your baby.

There's a reason why it's called fetal ALCOHOL effects/syndrome..Small amount produce the effects of FAE, large amount produce full-blown FAS.

My daughter has a condition that is a result of FAS. I did not drink throughout my pregnancy so her condition is not related to FAS. If anyone is curious as to what it's like raising a child with the condition, it hasn't been updated since her last appointment, so it doesn't include her seizures, peripheral hypotonia and chromosome translocation, but goes in depth from a personal view of how difficult it is raising a child with her condition. www.zoemeszaros.com

 

[BrandiCanucks]

https://www.come-over.to/FAS/ZeroAlcohol.htm

https://www.nsnet.org/nsfas/whatisfas.html

https://www.faslink.org/

 

[My_First]

Our Uk Guidelines from NICE Department of Health 2003,
"Research evidence is consistent in finding no evidence of foetal harm among women who drink one or two units of alcohol per week.[106] There is also little or no evidence of harm in women drink up to ten units per week. However, binge drinking or otherwise heavy consumption of alcohol is associated with adverse baby outcomes such as low birthweight [107,108] and behavioural and intellectual difficulties later in life.[109] [Evidence level 3] Binge drinking is also associated with fetal alcohol syndrome and the incidence in Europe is reported to be 0.4 cases/1000.[110] "

(NICE 2003b: 46)



BMJ 'the new DoH advice does not rest on any new evidence'

2007

DoH NICE 2007
'The UK’s Chief Medical Officers advise that, as a general rule, pregnant women or women trying to conceive should avoid drinking alcohol. If you do choose to drink, to protect your baby you should not drink more than one or two ‘units’ of alcohol once or twice a week and should not get drunk.'

 

[My_First]

Anyways, I have had enough, I have a decision I have made, and you have a decision you have made. They conflict, that as do all things in life.

We need to agree to disagree.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

Well then I hope for your sake and your baby's that you child is not affected by FAE because evidence everywhere tell us that there is no safe amount of alcohol, and even one drink can have some effect on the baby.

However, that being said, if your child is diagnosed with FAS/FAE I do hope you're prepared to deal with the challenges of a special needs child because it is not easy and that you realize the diagnosis was from consuming even small amounts of alcohol during pregnancy. I do also hope that you will learn from the situation and take precautions in subsequent pregnancies to prevent it from happening again. This isn't stuff I'm pulling out of my ass for the sake of spiting you, it's what I've studied and will work with 5 days a week and I say it to save the health of all unborn babies.

That also being said, should your child be diagnosed and you need any form of special needs support as you walk through the grief stages or after the initial shock of the diagnosis, I've been there, done that. You can always send me a private message and as a professional and a special needs parents, I'll offer whatever support I can, only because although I don't agree with your decision based on all the evidence presented not only in this thread, but in my classes, in my daily work, by my doctors, our government, etc, I do know what it's like to have a special needs child and wouldn't wish that struggle on any parent.

 

[My_First]

Well then I hope for your sake and your baby's that you child is not affected by FAE because evidence everywhere tell us that there is no safe amount of alcohol, and even one drink can have some effect on the baby.

However, that being said, if your child is diagnosed with FAS/FAE I do hope you're prepared to deal with the challenges of a special needs child because it is not easy and that you realize the diagnosis was from consuming even small amounts of alcohol during pregnancy. I do also hope that you will learn from the situation and take precautions in subsequent pregnancies to prevent it from happening again. This isn't stuff I'm pulling out of my ass for the sake of spiting you, it's what I've studied and will work with 5 days a week and I say it to save the health of all unborn babies.

That also being said, should your child be diagnosed and you need any form of special needs support as you walk through the grief stages or after the initial shock of the diagnosis, I've been there, done that. You can always send me a private message and as a professional and a special needs parents, I'll offer whatever support I can, only because although I don't agree with your decision based on all the evidence presented not only in this thread, but in my classes, in my daily work, by my doctors, our government, etc, I do know what it's like to have a special needs child and wouldn't wish that struggle on any parent.

And for that I thank you.

 

[glowingjo]

Wow.

Can I say thankyou to the ppl posting who have managed to be civil whilst still disagreeing. (It's not everyone, but it is quite a few of you)

Regards,