To drink or not to drink?

[Jess&Jay]

You can give a child alcohol in the UK? Wow.

Alcohol is a DRUG. Feeding your unborn a drug is ridiculous just because YOU want a drink. This argument is going no where and should be closed PERIOD. Not because I'm sayin certain mothers are selfish, which are.

See now this is why threads like this go downhill as some people view threads like this as an arguement and not a civilised discussion between adults

It doesnt need closing if people can discuss the topic politley without being rude to one another, a differening opinion doesnt always have to equate to an arguement.

And what you're saying here isnt offensive???
I AM an adult! Just because I am defending all unborn children and I feel strongly about this topic does not mean I am not an adult. I stated my opinion. I did not call ANY ONE out saying ok YOU, YOU'RE A BAD MOTHER. I said in general so whom ever feels it is to them, oh well. Blame that on yourself. So I'll say it in a way you can understand. This discussion is going no where. And should be closed PERIOD.

Did at any point i specifically refer to you as being a child? I was referring to everybody in this discussion as being an adult. Please highlight what i said that was offensive

I'll thank you for not speaking to me with an attitude like that again, there is no need to be rude

Seriously ladies, can you not discuss this topic without being so personal and rude? I understand its an emotive subject and people feel very passionatley but its not a totally alien concept to have a bit of respect and politeness when entering an open discussion with others.

If you quote what I said and write under my quote you clearly were mentioning me in the gerenal thought. Meaning you specifically were talking to me. I apologize for you not knowing what you said and to whom

I did apologize to the ladies that took offense to what I said before. I was rude to them.

 

[polo_princess]

Its fine, im not here to make anyones life difficult, infact far from it, i'd much rather be eating my dinner right now

Just keep it nice please ladies

 

[amym]

I'm gobsmacked at the virulence on this thread.....

I choose not to drink at all, despite the information from my midwife, GP and literacture that 1-2 units once or twice a week is fine, simply because tbh I drink to get pissed and as I can't get pissed safely I won't bother drinking...

But I am truly astonished that some people feel so strongly about this issue as to be rude to others. Personal and professional experiences all contribute I'm sure, but a bit of respect and courtesy wouldn't go amiss.

 

[v2007]

I didnt drink when i was pregnant with Mollie, mainly because i was 16

I had 1 drink on Xmas Day when i was pregnant with Taylor and Katie

All my kids are ok, well except for Taylor but her death had nothing to do with booze.

We all make a conscious decision to either drink or abstain when we are pregnant.

I know the OP was just looking for people opinions but if she wants to drink, arguing about it on here wont stop her if she chooses to have one.

I would like to think common sense would prevail and she would do the best by her child but who knows.

I would just like to ask what the OP would think if it was her child who was pregnant who was having a drink, would she say nothing or would she read her the riot act??

V xxxx

 

[Wobbles]

You can give a child alcohol in the UK? Wow.

Alcohol is a DRUG. Feeding your unborn a drug is ridiculous just because YOU want a drink. This argument is going no where and should be closed PERIOD. Not because I'm sayin certain mothers are selfish, which are.

See now this is why threads like this go downhill as some people view threads like this as an arguement and not a civilised discussion between adults

It doesnt need closing if people can discuss the topic politley without being rude to one another, a differening opinion doesnt always have to equate to an arguement.

And what you're saying here isnt offensive???
I AM an adult! Just because I am defending all unborn children and I feel strongly about this topic does not mean I am not an adult. I stated my opinion. I did not call ANY ONE out saying ok YOU, YOU'RE A BAD MOTHER. I said in general so whom ever feels it is to them, oh well. Blame that on yourself. So I'll say it in a way you can understand. This discussion is going no where. And should be closed PERIOD.

Did at any point i specifically refer to you as being a child? I was referring to everybody in this discussion as being an adult. Please highlight what i said that was offensive

I'll thank you for not speaking to me with an attitude like that again, there is no need to be rude

Seriously ladies, can you not discuss this topic without being so personal and rude? I understand its an emotive subject and people feel very passionatley but its not a totally alien concept to have a bit of respect and politeness when entering an open discussion with others.

If you quote what I said and write under my quote you clearly were mentioning me in the gerenal thought. Meaning you specifically were talking to me. I apologize for you not knowing what you said and to whom

I did apologize to the ladies that took offense to what I said before. I was rude to them.

Change your attitude ...PERIOD

 

[angelic_one]

I don't think there's any reason you can't once you're into your second trimester. But I had a half a glass of wine on a couple of occasions, and in all honesty, it was pretty pointless. I seriously doubt it's done any harm, and I feel no guilt. If anything it's better knowing that it's MY choice not to be drinking and NOT something forced upon me by the pregnancy, if you know what I mean. I'm hoping this knowledge will keep me away from drinking throughout breastfeeding and a long way into the future.

 

[dimplesmagee]

I am glad to hear that so many women are avoiding alcohol during pregnancy!!! That's awesome! My brother (who's adopted) has FAS, and I have directly been affected by his mother's choice to drink alcohol while she was pregnant. Therefore, I feel very strongly about my abstaining, and other women abstaining from alcohol during pregnancy. A lot of good points were brought up in the thread...and yes it is a woman's choice as to whether or not to drink while pregnant, but our babies our SOOOO little!!! Therefore, their tolerance level of alcohol (since we all know it clears the placenta barrier) is SOOO much lower for them, than ourselves. If we looks at studies shown of teenagers who drink alcohol even on weekends, it slows down their brain development, b/c they are still developing. Our babies are still developing inside us, and they are so delicate. Therefore, for them to consume any amount of alcohol has the potential at slowing their development. The reason why this answer is so inconclusive amongst the professionals is because the data will be skewed. Not too many woman admit to drinking while pregnant b/c it is such a tabo subject. Also, FAS is easily diagnosed when you know a mother drank in excessive amounts during pregnancy. But FAE is MUCH harder to diagnose b/c people are afraid to ask that dreaded ? and answer it truthfully. Did you drink while pregnant? Also, it is hard to do valid research on small amounts of alcohol while pregnant, b/c you can't tell 150 women to drink 5 drinks, these 150 women have 3 per week ect. b/c of the risks involved.
Anyway, I am thankful for the women who have made the choice to keep their babies alcohol free!
Happy Pregnancy everyone! Hope everyone is feel well!

 

[babybear75]

I think the difference we have here is that US is stated as NONE. However UK it is not, and I think thats perhaps why this gets so heated...I dont think any of us will ever be in agreement.

i was just about to add the exact same!

 

[babybear75]

I won't call you selfish, but I will agree the decision to drink during pregnancy and risk disabilities that are completely preventable IS selfish. You say you enjoy alcohol, well, if you can't abstain for the health and safety of your baby, then perhaps those who choose to drink during pregnancy need some intervention.

You want some literature from the UK?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/13332.php

May I ask what kind of financial supports the UK offers kids with disabilities? If it's none, thn perhaps that's why the government hasn't yet recommended no alcohol, because they don't have to pay for the choices of parents inflicted upon their children.

Regardless of what your UK literature says compared to my Canadian/US literature and recommendations, ALL literature agrees that THERE IS NO KNOWN SAFE AMOUNT OF ALCOHOL IN PREGNANCY!! That does not translate to, "Okay, I guess I can drink some because they don't know the dangerous amount" it translates to "You know, it's common sense, I need to abstain from alcohol because my absorption rate is probably different from another's woman's, so even one drink could affect my child".

My god, it's friggin common sense, and if your doctor and midwife told you it's okay to drink, then they ought to lose their licenses. They're not the ones having to raise these poor innocent children. I hope if your child is born with FAS, you can live with you decision.

just a quick answer to this. in the uk any individual with any disability is supported financially by the government, paying all education, support and health needs throughout the individuals life, so it would be in the government best interests to say no to ANY alcohol if they believed it caused harm. (vast amounts does cause harm not saying that it doesn't) just saying what the deal here is.

 

[SidneyGirl]

I personally would not drink at all, I even stop drinking a month or two before we even started TTC, a nurse once told me there is no way of knowing how much is "safe" and "unsafe".

 

[babybear75]

thats what debates are about tho, back and forth difference of opinions.

I think its good to discuss these kinds of topics.......and share info and experiences that may help someone. But as passionate as u may be you do have to keep your cool and respect others ( which i do find it hard to do at times) but theses kinds of threads have helped me to learn how to do just that! x

i think it is good to hear what the recommendations are in different places!

 

[BrandiCanucks]

What I don't understand is why they're different in different places. Over here in North America, it has been proven that even ONE alcoholic drink can cause, in the very least, FAE. Normally, different countries will see that and in the very least, take that information and either spread that information or conduct studies of their own to confirm the outcome.

So knowing that North America has proven one drink can cause FAE, why does the UK still support up to 3 drinks per week? That there is promoting the risk of FAE/FAS, and it just baffles me. Don't take this statement the wrong way, though, I'm just venting frustration and trying to wrap my head around the promotion of preventable disabilities. Does your government not care about these poor innocent children, or do they make too much money off taxing alcohol to care about the effects these children are going to suffer?

 

[My_First]

Maybe 'our Govenment' has conducted studies, but nothing is conclusive, and therfore will not put it as 'Gospel'.

 

[trumpetbum]

What I don't understand is why they're different in different places. Over here in North America, it has been proven that even ONE alcoholic drink can cause, in the very least, FAE. Normally, different countries will see that and in the very least, take that information and either spread that information or conduct studies of their own to confirm the outcome.

So knowing that North America has proven one drink can cause FAE, why does the UK still support up to 3 drinks per week? That there is promoting the risk of FAE/FAS, and it just baffles me. Don't take this statement the wrong way, though, I'm just venting frustration and trying to wrap my head around the promotion of preventable disabilities. Does your government not care about these poor innocent children, or do they make too much money off taxing alcohol to care about the effects these children are going to suffer?

What conclusive study/studies in the US proved that one alcoholic drink can cause FAE?
Maybe if it was clear what evidence we were looking at it would be easier to compare it to the evidence used by the National institute of clinical excellence to conclude that there is no proven link between the intake of small amounts of alcohol and harm to the foetus.
The advice is most certainly NOT up to 3 drinks a week, but I haven't trawled through this whole thread so don't know where that information came from. The advice is that no more than 1-2 units once a week after 1st tri is thought to be harmful.

In terms of our govt. Their advice is actually to drink no alcohol as it has been shown that a large proprotion of people commonly underestimate their unit intake and have a poor understanding of what 'small amounts' of alcohol actually amounts to, with some even supposing that it is ok to 'save' up units. Interestingly, this poor understanding seems only to apply to pregnant women or their advice to drivers would presumably follow suit.

 

[aob1013]

In the first trimester i strongly urge you to stay away from it. After that i guess a tiny amount may not hurt .. who knows.

I didn't drink throughout my pregnancy. It's easy to give up alcohol for a measily 9 months!

 

[babybear75]

What I don't understand is why they're different in different places. Over here in North America, it has been proven that even ONE alcoholic drink can cause, in the very least, FAE. Normally, different countries will see that and in the very least, take that information and either spread that information or conduct studies of their own to confirm the outcome.

So knowing that North America has proven one drink can cause FAE, why does the UK still support up to 3 drinks per week? That there is promoting the risk of FAE/FAS, and it just baffles me. Don't take this statement the wrong way, though, I'm just venting frustration and trying to wrap my head around the promotion of preventable disabilities. Does your government not care about these poor innocent children, or do they make too much money off taxing alcohol to care about the effects these children are going to suffer?

trust me they care i have worked with both children and adults with learning disabilities for nearly 15 years and everything is done to protect every individual. Tax on booze is about to go up again to stop everyone drinking because of the conditions it causes and resulting in cost to the NHS. i don't know why the recommendations is different, but "promoting" FAE would cost the NHS more and because the individuals with a LD have all their education, social, health and housing needs met all the tax on booze in the world won't pay for that.

 

[anna matronic]

If one drink has been proven to cause FAE then surely many more children would have it considering I imagine many woman will have had a drink before they knew they were pregnant.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

What has been concluded is that because different women have different tolerance levels and therefore, different absorption rates, one drink can cause FAE, in the very least. I'm not sure how many more times in this thread I'm going to have to repeat that, I think this is the 5th time.

Woman A: Drinks 3 drinks a week and has since her first trimester. Gives birth to a child with FAE.

Woman B: Had only 5 drinks throughout her pregnancy but her child is born with full-blown FAS.

Why? Because woman A had a faster aborption rate than Woman B. Because Woman B's absorption rate is slower, her body absorbs more of the alcohol, thus more of the alcohol consumed passed through the placenta to the baby. The more alcohol that passes through the placenta, the worse the risk of FAS.

THIS is what has been proven by multiple studies. This is why it is stated WORLDWIDE that there is no known safe amount of alcohol. It is impossible to pinpoint a safe amount of alcohol in pregnancy because of the differing tolerance levels and absorption rates in women. This is why it is recommended WORLDWIDE to abstain from alcohol during pregnancy.

And please don't try to sugarcoat it and tell me "Well, the government says...", because every UK website I have looked at has said "It is recommended not to consume any alcohol at all" before it states that if you absolutely cannot abstain, to limit the drinks you consume.

So knowing that your websites all say "It is recommended not to consume any alcohol at all" why would you still be willing to take the risk of your child being born with disabilities? I'm sorry, actually, I'm not, but if you can't abstain from alcohol for 40 weeks or less to ensure your baby is happy, healthy, safe, and disability free, then that is selfish. Everyone preaches "Well, it's my decision". I'm sorry, it's not. This isn't about you and how much you enjoy alcohol. This is about your unborn child and ensuring his or her health and safety.

 

[My_First]

I am sorry you feel like that. It is my choice, and I ask you, politely, to refrain from calling me selfish, again. We agree to disagree.

 

[lozzy21]

I think the difference we have here is that US is stated as NONE. However UK it is not, and I think thats perhaps why this gets so heated...I dont think any of us will ever be in agreement.

Im in the UK and havent touched a drop. Its nothing to do with where you live. For me the risk is not worth it, the fact they say its best if you dont drink is enough.

Yes I am aware of FAS. No there is no definative proof or study that shows how one glass of wine can affect the unborm child.
.

There is no proof ether that states it wont hurt your baby