To drink or not to drink?

[angelic_one]

I think, if I'd have read this thread before being pregnant, I wouldn't have drank. I think that the government's advice about drinking implies there is no risk from drinking a sensible amount, and information in this thread shows that there IS more of a risk than the government seems to think. This is crazy!

I also think that the lack of clarity provides an excuse to those mothers who perhaps have a drinking problem. In my eyes, if you can't go without drinking for NINE MONTHS, you have a problem. But any pregnant woman who has a problem can go "Well the government says it's alright to have a bit". The majority of people can't stick to the guidelines when they're not pregnant, so what's suddenly gonna change now? Plus, if they have one drink it could lead to another, then another as their inhibitions leave them, and when nothing appears to go wrong the first time they get drunk,they will do it again and again.

I don't think that my child will be effected by the small amount of wine I've consumed but as people have said, it wasn't worth the risk. I've been given a massive pack of information from my midwife. WHY was there NOTHING about FAS and FAE in there? It seems ridiculous! Especially when Britain as a whole has a drink problem anyway!

I hope this thread won't be closed. I understand that it's changed from the original discussion of whether people drink or not, and that most people who do choose to drink would not dare post on it now. But I personally have found it very informative and am not insulted by the comments.

 

[trumpetbum]

Trumpetbum, while I understand your point of view, as I have stated numerous times in this thread, this is stuff that I study and will go more in depth with starting next Thursday. I am the mother of a special needs child and am currently in school to work with kids and adults with disabilities. Given this, just as doctors are privy to information before the general public is, there is information that I, as a professional DSW, am privy to before the general public. I don't say that in a high and mighty, holier-than-thou tone.

However, think about it. Studies have also shown that you can have two 25 year old women. They consume the same alcohol beverage and the same amount of it. Woman A could be more affected by her alcohol intake than Woman B because of her tolerance level, or lack thereof, and her differing absorption rates. This is all information that needs to be taken into consideration.

If Woman A is pregnant, because of her low tolerance level, her baby is more bound to be affected by her alcohol intake than Woman B's baby if Woman B has a higher tolerance and lower absorption rate. Come on, this is common sense. Surely you're not so stubborn that you, nor your government can't take this into consideration when it comes to the health of your baby.

I will be working on a regular basis with a child who is a victim of FAS. It is not a nice thing or an easy thing to have to live with. Perhaps some research on FAS and FAE to give you an example of how difficult these childrens' lives are might shed some more light on the issue. After all, I'm just a person on a forum, remember? I must not know what I'm talking about.

In the meantime, https://www.oregoncounseling.org/ArticlesPapers/Documents/ETOHBIOFx.htm

Feel free to read the entire article, but if not, then in the very least, skip down to 10.4 near the bottom of the article..then tell me I'm pulling all of this crap out of my ass. If I can spread awareness and at least educate expectant mothers about the risks, and even if only one mother listens and doesn't put her baby at risk, then that's success for me. For the rest of the stubborn mothers, it sounds harsh but I hope your child isn't born with FAS or FAE, but if he or she is, I hope you feel guilty for the lifelong struggles you have inflicted on your child, and that you work your ass off to support your child through it, especially since this was completely preventable.

https://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih3/alcohol/guide/info-alcohol.htm

Brandi, I respect your opinion and where you are coming from, but unfortunately not your attitude towards others who do not come to the same conclusion as you with regards to this issue.
I am lucky to also have access to a wide variety of clinical studies through my work and study which the general population generally don't. I'm not ignorant to the evidence available and I have worked with children affected by FAS and lesser problems related to alcohol abuse both inutero and socially. Neither am I uneducated on the risks of alcohol as you seem to assume simply because I don't agree with your conclusions based on the evidence.This despite yourself implying that I am making assumptions about your knowledge base because you are on a forum. I wouldn't bother to make an argument about such an important and passionate subject without the research to support my opinion.
Common sense rarely applies to the evaluation of evidence, but no I cannot come to the same conclusion based on the evidence out there regardless.
I don't think for a moment that you are pulling anything out of your ass, but I cannot based on the evidence come to the same conclusion and therefore can't agree that a very occasional glass of wine is soemthing to fear or avoid in pregnancy.
Thank you for the offer of help should this misfortune ever occur within my family, however scare/shock tactics rarely affect the opinions of those who are confident in their stance. I have two healthy, academically gifted children and take nothing in their health or development lightly, nor will I with this child which is why I make sure that I am well grounded in any research which might affect them. The mistake many people make is in assuming that someone who disagrees must therefore be ignorant of the 'facts', I assure you this is not the case.
Thank you also for the links, I had a brief look at the first and it makes interesting reading, but don't generally tend to use unreferenced opinion articles to form an opinion, regardless of the profession of the author. I would use it as a starting base for research or an overview of different perspectives, but as I already have access to peer reviewed current research in this area I'll continue to use this.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

My intentions were not shock/scare tactics, rather presenting the evidence against the case of alcohol in pregnancy. No matter which country a person is from, the first statement is always "Avoid alcohol in pregnancy", then followed by, "If you cannot..." And it is because there is no known safe amount. Where several drinks in pregnancy may seemingly not harm a child, just one drink in pregnancy can harm a child in another pregnancy. It is impossible to know in whom this will occur, and how many alcoholic drinks it will take to harm a child. This is why it is recommended to abstain.

As for my offer of support, neither was this a shock/scare tactic, but a genuine offer of support because I know that being a special needs parent is not an easy task and I, too, have been grateful for the support I have found. When I felt lost, the support around me has helped to gain strength and direction, and in turn, this is what I offer. Please do not assume anything different.

I had a very close friend that I no longer speak with because she decided to insult my daughter and her special needs. She also told me she didn't want her kids hanging around my daughter because she didn't want her kids to become "delayed and ******** like she was". I cut off all contact with her, but left the window open that "God forbid, should her unborn child or any of her children develop disabilities, she knows where to find me and I will not hold this situation against her. If she needs support, I will be there".

If my intention was to shock/scare, I wouldn't be in the field I am in.

 

[trumpetbum]

Perhaps the miscommunication regarding scare/shock tactics comes from the wide gap in our interpretation in the evidence. This...

it sounds harsh but I hope your child isn't born with FAS or FAE, but if he or she is, I hope you feel guilty for the lifelong struggles you have inflicted on your child, and that you work your ass off to support your child through it, especially since this was completely preventable.

Implies that those who have argued that there is no evidence of harm from an occasional small amount of alcohol as I have are likely to be in this position which seems excessive, unlikelyand therefore a scare/shock tactic. Admittedly this may be a misinterpretation on my part. I doubt this is a subject that we will see eye to eye on, but it has been an interesting discussion. I don't know that I have anything productive to add at this point.

 

[reedsgirl1138]

.DELETED..didn't want the thread closed and it may have been taken as offensive by some even though wasn't intended that way. I think this thread is very informative and should be kept to the reasons not to drink and not personal opionions about how someone thinks its ok. Good luck to you all

 

[peanut56]

Ultimately, it's every woman's own personal choice. All you can do is educate yourself and make a decision based on your own research. Unfortunately, scientific studies and facts are often not enough to change people's minds.
I personally will never, ever be able to understand why people are willing to take the risk. I also cannot believe that there are doctors/midwives, etc in the world out there that are telling their patients it's okay to have alcohol while pregnant. Perhaps that's due to where I live - in Canada we're told no alcohol at all, so to me, it's mind boggling that people in other countries are told differently.
I understand that the women on here who choose to drink do not think they are harming their babies, and I'm not going to sit here and judge them....I just hope after reading this thread, and reading all of Brandi's posts, that they at least give it some more thought.

 

[Emmysmommy]

I think having the occasional drink is not going to cause fetal harm. Having enough drinks to vomit that's when Fetal Alcohol Syndrome comes into effect. Are all of you moms that are choosing not to drink alcohol also not drinking coffee or soda because of the effects of caffeine? Are you making sure to avoid deli meats in case you might get salmonella? Are you avoiding peanuts because you don't want your child to have a peanut allergy? Are you staying away from fish all together and mayonnaise or anything that could potentially cause harm? Not just food but are you staying away from hair dye, nail polish, driving on certain roads by factories? There are so many things that a pregnant woman can worry about and can read the statistics and hear all the stories about a friend of a friend of friend's baby. Don't listen to everything you read. If you want the occasional drink (which my doctor did approve with my daughter) then that's okay. If you really like a mayonnaise and tuna fish sandwich once in awhile that's okay too. There is a difference between paranoid and cautious. The occasional drink is being cautious the I'm not drinking at all because one drink will cause fetal alcohol syndrome in my opinion is being paranoid. I'm not going to be popular on this thread, and I'm okay with that, but living in fear of what can happen will only cause undue stress possibly more nausea then you are already feeling, and will only set you up for disappointment when you realize your child is not perfect. No one is perfect, and no amount of protection from you is going to change that. So if a woman wants to have one drink or two drinks during a special occasion, she should have that right and not feel guilty about it. Actually it's also proven that if you are having trouble nursing with a newborn the yeast in beer will get your milk to come right out. So if these wive's tales and tips have worked for years and generations have come out without fetal alcohol syndrome then I think the future generations will come out alright too. Just my two cents.

 

[AugustMidge]

So, I wanted to get some feedback from everyone.

I have been given a LOT of conflicting advice regarding drinking alcohol during pregnancy.

One school of thought is that alcohol is OK when consumed in VERY limited quantities (like a glass of wine here and there).

The other school of thought says absolutely no alcohol.

I want to know, have you had alcohol with other pregnancies or are you currently having a drink here and there or do you know of anyone who has etc?

Can't make my mind up at this point but as many others have stated, moms to be in many other countries outside of the US consume wine etc on a semi regular basis when pregnant and have no issues at all.

Thanks!

I still consume a glass of wine here and there. Sometimes a sip of beer. I feel excessive drinking is problematic but not a here or there kind of thing.

Its really all personal preference.

 

[BlackBerry25]

I wouldn't. I have 4 foster sisters who have Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, and I know how serious it is. They have actual holes in their brains and will never be normal. To me, it is not worth it AT ALL.

 

[BlackBerry25]

And it is not a shock or scare tactic, obviously people will do what they want, however, you should maybe listen to people who have actual experience with people who have FASD and you would not want to even take a small risk.

 

[aragornlover8]

And it is not a shock or scare tactic, obviously people will do what they want, however, you should maybe listen to people who have actual experience with people who have FASD and you would not want to even take a small risk.

I have just recently started scanning this thread (there are a lot of pages and I probably was not as thorough as I should have been). However, I don't think that the argument that some women have is that they do not believe in the effects of FAS or that these effects are not something to be genuinely concerned over. I believe the argument is over whether or not a minimal amount of alcohol will cause FAS and whether or not one would be "paranoid" to believe that one glass on a blue moon could cause those effects. I have had a lot of similar questions as the OP so I can totally understand the frustration; I have decided, as I am a worry wart, that it is best for me to abstain.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I think having the occasional drink is not going to cause fetal harm. Having enough drinks to vomit that's when Fetal Alcohol Syndrome comes into effect. Are all of you moms that are choosing not to drink alcohol also not drinking coffee or soda because of the effects of caffeine? Are you making sure to avoid deli meats in case you might get salmonella? Are you avoiding peanuts because you don't want your child to have a peanut allergy? Are you staying away from fish all together and mayonnaise or anything that could potentially cause harm? Not just food but are you staying away from hair dye, nail polish, driving on certain roads by factories? There are so many things that a pregnant woman can worry about and can read the statistics and hear all the stories about a friend of a friend of friend's baby. Don't listen to everything you read. If you want the occasional drink (which my doctor did approve with my daughter) then that's okay. If you really like a mayonnaise and tuna fish sandwich once in awhile that's okay too. There is a difference between paranoid and cautious. The occasional drink is being cautious the I'm not drinking at all because one drink will cause fetal alcohol syndrome in my opinion is being paranoid. I'm not going to be popular on this thread, and I'm okay with that, but living in fear of what can happen will only cause undue stress possibly more nausea then you are already feeling, and will only set you up for disappointment when you realize your child is not perfect. No one is perfect, and no amount of protection from you is going to change that. So if a woman wants to have one drink or two drinks during a special occasion, she should have that right and not feel guilty about it. Actually it's also proven that if you are having trouble nursing with a newborn the yeast in beer will get your milk to come right out. So if these wive's tales and tips have worked for years and generations have come out without fetal alcohol syndrome then I think the future generations will come out alright too. Just my two cents.

FAS only comes into effect if you drink enough that you vomit? Lol where did u get that info from???

Ill say it again you cant compare food with a drug! Which is what alcohol is.

Even a few drinks can intoxicate a full grown adult, esp those who dont drink regularly, imagine what one glass can potentially do to a fetus??

For the record i have avoided anything that is known to be a risk (deli meats etc) but alcohol really is a no brainer. Babies and alcohol dont mix, and that applies whether they are in the womb or have been born. Why do people even try and argue that fact?

Whats the point of an occassional drink? Its of no benefit to bubs at all, its purely for the mums own pleasure.

 

[aragornlover8]

I have noticed a lot of posters posing the following question (in a variety of different ways) : "Would you give your baby a glass of wine?"

My question, which is purely out of curiosity, is this - Does drinking a glass of wine equate to giving your fetus a full glass of wine? How does it metabolize in the metabolic fluid, if at all?

 

[BrandiCanucks]

I think having the occasional drink is not going to cause fetal harm. Having enough drinks to vomit that's when Fetal Alcohol Syndrome comes into effect. Are all of you moms that are choosing not to drink alcohol also not drinking coffee or soda because of the effects of caffeine? Are you making sure to avoid deli meats in case you might get salmonella? Are you avoiding peanuts because you don't want your child to have a peanut allergy? Are you staying away from fish all together and mayonnaise or anything that could potentially cause harm? Not just food but are you staying away from hair dye, nail polish, driving on certain roads by factories?

Actually, yes to all of them. But I'm actually staying away from the fish because I have an anaphylaxis allergy, I really don't have a choice in that matter

And this doesn't have to do with paranoia, this has to do with informing and educating parents on the very real risk that because of differing tolerance levels and absorption rates, not to mention the fact that when alcohol crosses the placenta, the baby metabolizes the alcohol at a much slower rate the mother does, that yes, even one drink, while it will not cause FAS, CAN, yes the very real possibility is there that it will cause FAE. And to me and other expectant mothers, how any mother would want to take that risk, regardless of how small they believe it to be, just baffles us.

As some of us have mentioned, we have seen and know the struggles of a child with FAS, and being a parent of a special needs child who watches helplessly as her daughter struggles with her disabilities, which by the way, we not preventable, although FAE/FAS is, it also frustrates me that any mother would want to take that risk of inflicting these struggles on a child.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I have noticed a lot of posters posing the following question (in a variety of different ways) : "Would you give your baby a glass of wine?"

My question, which is purely out of curiosity, is this - Does drinking a glass of wine equate to giving your fetus a full glass of wine? How does it metabolize in the metabolic fluid, if at all?

No obviously its not the same.....i agree but the fact remains that some of it passes through the placenta to the baby. How much passes through and how the fetus is affected would differ but think of how small they are, and that they are developing humans.

ANY amount of alcohol filtering through to them is too much ifykwim

 

[aragornlover8]

I have noticed a lot of posters posing the following question (in a variety of different ways) : "Would you give your baby a glass of wine?"

My question, which is purely out of curiosity, is this - Does drinking a glass of wine equate to giving your fetus a full glass of wine? How does it metabolize in the metabolic fluid, if at all?

No obviously its not the same.....i agree but the fact remains that some of it passes through the placenta to the baby. How much passes through and how the fetus is affected would differ but think of how small they are, and that they are developing humans.

ANY amount of alcohol filtering through to them is too much ifykwim

I was honestly curious so thank you for answering.

 

[ShanandBoc]

No worries x

 

[trumpetbum]

And it is not a shock or scare tactic, obviously people will do what they want, however, you should maybe listen to people who have actual experience with people who have FASD and you would not want to even take a small risk.

I'd just like to reiterate that some people who disagree that small quantities of alcohol are harmful to the foetus have experience with people who are FASD and are educated on the subject. In my own social circle including medical professionals, nurses and one medical research scientist, not one would be arguing for total abstinance, but that's simply in my own personal experience. It is possible to take an opposing stance, despite exposure to experience and the available evidence, even if that is difficult for someone who is passionately on the other side of the fence to understand.

 

[MADLYSBOYS]

Thank you trumpetbum

I have been stalking this thread for a few days now and wanted to say....

I am not ignorant of the facts either....but I deem it my choice wether or not I abstain and am sure it wont be the only thing I do during pregnancy that will attract the criticism of others......like dying my hair! I intend to keep my life as normal as possible and the choices I make are just that....normal....I also choose not to give in to paranoia because then my baby would truly be at risk!

My belief is that wether I choose to have alcohol whilst pregnant or not is my choice and my choice alone! This is my body, my baby and my descision!

 

[BrandiCanucks]

You're right..your body, your baby, also your consequences, your guilt and your baby's strugges if your few drinks causes difficulties and disabilities fully knowing there are risks. I'm not paranoid, I'm cautious, and I'd rather have a healthy baby than risk preventable disabilities.