To save or not 23 week babies...

[lindsayryan]

what channel and time was this on? i cant seem to find on catch up x

 

[you&me]

what channel and time was this on? i cant seem to find on catch up x

BBC2 at 9pm, was called 23 weekers, The Price of Life.

 

[NickyT75]

I can't comment without being unbiased as my daughter was one of those babies born before the cut off point so she wasn't helped & I had to stand back & watch her die knowing that she didn't even get a chance to fight

this is a really upsetting subject for me obviously

 

[Eve]

I think it should depend on each individual case, and not really have a line drawn.
I know when I seen my son in the NICU hooked up to every damn machine possible, having seizures and totally Dependant on machines it make me sick... I spent hours in shock... I am so thankful I was able to hold him while alive, but I was mad at the same time that they put so much effort it trying to save him I know...
He had been dead inside of me for near an hour, and they still worked on him for around 30 minutes which yes, got his heart beating but there was nothing else left. The lack of oxygen to his brain caused him to be near 100% brain dead. So yes, I met my son, I held my son, I kissed my son all while he was "alive" but not once did he move (other than seizures) he didn't cry, open his eyes, even have the regular instincts. I am very lucky though as I do not know how I would have done if he were to have felt pain... those parts of the brain were dead, which I do thank god for that because to me, bringing him back to suffer through 8 hours of pain, just to die anyways isn't worth it in my eyes... that is the problem though, some parents don't think of that (which you can't blame them) They just want their baby, they will do anything to have their baby... it's only natural.
We removed Kaleb from life support and let him pass on, as he wasn't going to make it through the night anyways and we felt it wasn't fair to keep holding on when there was only an extremely small chance of survival and at what cost? His "life"... if he were to have miraculously survived he would have had no quality of life and to me, that is cruel.
That is why I feel as I do. Each case is different but we all need someone else of a better understanding to tell us as parents, when we need to stop and when we need to push for more.
My heart breaks for anyone who has lost a child, be it 1st-2nd or third trimester or after delivery

 

[Zedfaca]

I haven't seen the programme yet. Not sure if I will. I've held a 23 week old baby. She had been dead for hours so no chance of resus. I would've done anything to breathe life back into her, but the thought screaming through my head was PUT HER BACK. Put her back in my tummy, not wire her up to the mains. These babies do deserve a chance but they should be safe and warm in the womb. The outside world cannot provide a substitute for a baby THAT small. They're tiny. Their legs are smaller than your little finger. To hold a son or daughter that small, with their little perfectly formed face, is the saddest thing you can do. If they are going to die, I'd rather it was in my tummy or in my arms as safe and warm and pain free as it could be. I think the thing is that I value them not suffering more than I value their life passing away and the suffering I then have. Given that I can't see where they would even begin to start taking care of her. The thought of someone sticking a needle in her makes me feel sick. No, the only thing I wanted was to have her back in my tummy and that is impossible.

 

[halas]

i think that in the end it should be the parents choice, makes me so sad for the mums that have to go through that

 

[lindsayryan]

Just watched it and i do think it should be an individual choice and although it must be heartbreaking choices for parents to make i dont think that i would want a doctor or anyone else to make that choice for me. It must be a terrible thing to have to go through and my heart really goes out to anyone who has had to deal with anything like this x

 

[Mumof42009]

Can't write much right now cause this program has really affected me, but I do think it should be the parents choice and as for the cut off not sure about that one as due dates are not 100%.

 

[ShanandBoc]

You guys get so much good stuff on BBC to watch, is there a link to it?

I personally think every baby deserves the chance at life, but the quality of that life is what has to come into question I wish no babies were born so early. Must be soooo heartbreaking.

 

[jstarr]

I have a friend who was born at 23 weeks, she is now 21 and has never had a health problem in her life, obviously she is very lucky that people tried to help her when she ewas born and if they didn't she wouldn't be here, but its a very grey area and i don't think any human is capable of judging which babies should be helped and which shouldn't.
All babies should be given a chance but i don't think they should be made to suffer. A friend had her baby at 25 weeks and he lived for 13 days but they chose for him to be taken off the ventilator so they could have last cuddles with him as he was badly brain damaged from his birth...tbh i don't know what the right answer is its heartbreaking for parents who have to make those decisions

 

[Eve]

I haven't seen the programme yet. Not sure if I will. I've held a 23 week old baby. She had been dead for hours so no chance of resus. I would've done anything to breathe life back into her, but the thought screaming through my head was PUT HER BACK. Put her back in my tummy, not wire her up to the mains. These babies do deserve a chance but they should be safe and warm in the womb. The outside world cannot provide a substitute for a baby THAT small. They're tiny. Their legs are smaller than your little finger. To hold a son or daughter that small, with their little perfectly formed face, is the saddest thing you can do. If they are going to die, I'd rather it was in my tummy or in my arms as safe and warm and pain free as it could be. I think the thing is that I value them not suffering more than I value their life passing away and the suffering I then have. Given that I can't see where they would even begin to start taking care of her. The thought of someone sticking a needle in her makes me feel sick. No, the only thing I wanted was to have her back in my tummy and that is impossible.

x a million hun, I sit in tears reading your words...

 

[ShanandBoc]

I can't comment without being unbiased as my daughter was one of those babies born before the cut off point so she wasn't helped & I had to stand back & watch her die knowing that she didn't even get a chance to fight

this is a really upsetting subject for me obviously

Oh hun im so sorry

 

[littleblonde]

I dont think we can say what we would do inless we actually had to face this decision. I wouldnt want my baby to go through pain and when i look at the babys on the documantry my heart broke wondering what pain they where going through and how they felt. So i honestly dont no what is right and what is wrong. and like someone else said a 30 week baby could have more problems or a term baby more problems.I dont no where they could draw the line. I just hope i never ever have this desision and cant imagine what those poor mummys have to go through.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I haven't seen the programme yet. Not sure if I will. I've held a 23 week old baby. She had been dead for hours so no chance of resus. I would've done anything to breathe life back into her, but the thought screaming through my head was PUT HER BACK. Put her back in my tummy, not wire her up to the mains. These babies do deserve a chance but they should be safe and warm in the womb. The outside world cannot provide a substitute for a baby THAT small. They're tiny. Their legs are smaller than your little finger. To hold a son or daughter that small, with their little perfectly formed face, is the saddest thing you can do. If they are going to die, I'd rather it was in my tummy or in my arms as safe and warm and pain free as it could be. I think the thing is that I value them not suffering more than I value their life passing away and the suffering I then have. Given that I can't see where they would even begin to start taking care of her. The thought of someone sticking a needle in her makes me feel sick. No, the only thing I wanted was to have her back in my tummy and that is impossible.

x a million hun, I sit in tears reading your words...

 

[bubbles123]

I saw the programme and have 2 opinions really. I've worked in health care and seen the brutal reality of resuscitation and major interventions like it in the elderly and very young and also seen the low chances of success and if you asked me from a medical point of view (as the doctors were saying in the programme) there is no way I'd want to resuscitate a baby that small. I've been lucky enough though to never had to make that decision myself so can't comment from a parents view but I thought the nurse they interviewed made a very good point. Medical opinion is matter of fact, to the point and based on the likelyhood of good outcomes; a parents decisions are emotional and it has to be their decision at the end of the day as they are the ones who will live with the consequences either way.

 

[going_crazy]

I wouldn't like to be in the situation where I would have to make a decision like that, whether proffessionally or personally. I have much admiration for preemie mummies (& daddies) who have got difficult & maybe even life long decisions to make

I can see both sides of the discussion and I would like to think that I would make the best desicion for my baby if I were ever in that situation x

 

[NuKe]

ive no idea. i watched this and i can see both sides of the coin. i dont know what id do, if i was in that situation. the only thing i know for SURE, is that i would not want any baby of mine to be in constant pain.

 

[sophxx]

i really dont know im just watching it now its heartbreaking

i cant begin to imagine how they feel i know if it was my baby i would want them to try but i wouldnt want my baby in pain if they didnt try i think id always ask my self what if x

 

[AP]

a parents decisions are emotional and it has to be their decision at the end of the day as they are the ones who will live with the consequences either way.

I agree. I'd rather hear someone tell me it is my decision rather than the docs basically saying i have no choice in the matter simpily because of gestation.
A few publications have stated today that 23 weekers are always resussed - that is not the case and im sure some of us know this already - its a total lottery, hospital by hospital, all over the world.

Disability is something that keeps being used in this debate, but older preemies are just as much at risk.

If only one in 100 23 weekers survive, thats more than enough evidence to say that they should be given the chance, if parents agree so. But parents shouldnt be forced to either.

Bliss' Andy Cole states his arguement in this article, every word I agree with
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-s...n-at-23-weeks-be-left-to-die-115875-22973751/

 

[PreggyEggy]

I've just watched this program, and I have to say, I found it very upsetting. I can't imagine going through something like that.

But I can speak from the POV of having a disabled family member who had no quality of life, and in the end we had to make decisions on her care. We were given the "choice" on whether or not to continue nutrition but told if x happened, then they would take the choice out of our hands. Being told that made the whole thing much much harder.

I believe that it should be taken case by case...if the baby appears to be strong, then there may be a chance, then the doctors should ask the parents if they want to continue. I believe it should be a mutual decision between the parents and the doctors were possible, but if the doctors assess the baby and believe that there would be very little chance of survival, then they should be able to step in. Quality of life is something that would be very very important to me, because I've seen what it's like for someone who has a very low quality of life. Should however many babies that manage to live be forced to live a life with little to no quality of life just for the one baby that may survive unscathed?

Personally, from what I've seen in the documentary, there is no way I could decide to resus. But then I haven't gone through it, and looking at my baby right now and thinking about what I would have done if it was her...it's much harder. I'm not sure what I'd have done.