To vacinate or not?

[KittyVentura]

I'm pro vaccine.

I think sometimes people focus too much on the negative side of it and fail to balance it with the positives. Ok so come studes have shown links of certain vaccines to certain other illnesses and disabilities. However balancing out the overall good from vaccines and the diseases/disabilities prevented as a result would likely show that the negatives of vaccines are worth it overall, as a society.

Of course if you said that to the mother of a child negatively affected it would seem like a horrendous thing to say. But if one child in XXX gets one disease because of vaccinating... whereas 5 children in XXX get a potentially worse disease if everyone stopped vaccinating... well it has to be determined that the smaller % of diseases is going to be better overall.

Of course if we could have something wih no side effects that prevented the diseases it would be great. But we do not. EIther way children and people are going to get sick and die... surely overall it is better we take the path that is going to minimise the sickness and death experienced?

I'm going to use measles as an example here. Measles as a disease now is relatively rare. However this is as a result of vaccinating. Measles can be deadly but the risk of death is minimal. The risk to the child itself of dieing from measles is minimal, even if we all stopped vaccinating. However IF we stopped vaccinating measles outbreaks would become more common once more... and while the risk of death to those that encounter it is minimal... the risk of foetal death amongst mothers who contract measles in the first trimester is extremely high. It is this affect on the foetus which caused for widespread measles vaccinations.

So yes, we could all think about our own child and the risk of them getting autism (I'm not an expert, I'm not sure if it the MMR vaccine that has been linked to Autism - I'm simly using this as an example here) and refuse to vaccinate. However but doing so we could all face a massive risk of losing future babies as a result of a measles outbreak. Or our children's babies... or our best friends... you get my point.

People are right to question vaccines. Absolutely. But I also think people need to think outside of their own family circle when making their choice xxx

 

[AppleBlossom]

^^ The link between MMR and autism has been disproven. The doctor who suggested it was struck off. The reason why people link the two is because, signs of autism often present themselves in a child between the ages of 1-2 which is the same age frame as when the MMR is usually given

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

^^ The link between MMR and autism has been disproven. The doctor who suggested it was struck off. The reason why people link the two is because, signs of autism often present themselves in a child between the ages of 1-2 which is the same age frame as when the MMR is usually given

That particular one was discredited but still stuff leads to it. Alot of it wont be publishable for us as it is built into us that yes we should vaccinate! Grrr.

 

[aragornlover8]

^^ The link between MMR and autism has been disproven. The doctor who suggested it was struck off. The reason why people link the two is because, signs of autism often present themselves in a child between the ages of 1-2 which is the same age frame as when the MMR is usually given

That particular one was discredited but still stuff leads to it. Alot of it wont be publishable for us as it is built into us that yes we should vaccinate! Grrr.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. And I really don't buy into the conspiracy that "big pharma" profits so scientific journals are hushed. Scientific journals are pretty autonomous. They determine what's publishable and what's not based on whether or not the research has sufficient evidence and statistical significance by putting the article through an extensive peer review process.

What exactly do you mean by "stuff leads to it"? Do you have any sources?

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

I mean people/parents REAL people will argue to the ends of the earth that the MMR caused their child to have autism. Jenny McCarthy and Polly Tommy to name 2.

I am not saying it does/does not but none the less, there will always be someone who will disagree. I guess until it happens to them, people will say vaccines are safe. When you have a child with autism, it makes you think twice.

 

[Sarahkka]

Jenny McCarthy and her vast science background?
Sorry to sound harsh, but a lot of people read these threads and I do not want anyone to be persuaded that there was any basis to the MMR-autism silliness.
Coincidence can be compelling sometimes, but let's use our collective critical faculty here. That "evidence" was tossed out many times over. It did not stand up to peer review. In fact, it ended up in quite a scandal for the doctor who put the whole theory forward.
The lesson here?
Anecdotes are dangerous.
They are emotional and persuasive and do not give you the whole picture.
Stats and studies may be boring and harder to understand, but they are far more trustworthy than some celebrity jumping on the bandwagon of a discredited and disgraced doctor.

 

[aragornlover8]

I mean people/parents REAL people will argue to the ends of the earth that the MMR caused their child to have autism. Jenny McCarthy and Polly Tommy to name 2.

I am not saying it does/does not but none the less, there will always be someone who will disagree. I guess until it happens to them, people will say vaccines are safe. When you have a child with autism, it makes you think twice.

But this is a very emotional response to a very medical problem. Signs of autism generally show around the time certain vaccines, like the MMR, are given. This is most likely a coincidence. There's no statistical significance to show that the MMR is what causes this change in children's behavior and development.

Jenny McCarty is not a scientist, researcher, or medical professional in any way. But she's popular, so people listen to her regardless of whether what she says has any depth or basis in fact.

I'm not saying vaccines are 100% safe either. There are side effects, some of which are potentially very dangerous. But there are risks with ALL medications that you take. For example, I was watching a television program where a woman had an incredibly adverse reaction to an antibiotic she was prescribed; her body actually attacked her skin, causing it to pretty much completely break down. She later recovered, and a weaker layer of skin grew in place of the skin she lost. But to advocate that no one take antibiotics because of this very small risk defies logic.

 

[Laura2919]

I know people whose children have autism and none of them blame the MMR.

 

[KittyVentura]

Interesting read here on BMJ (British Medical Journal)

https://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c7452.full

xxx

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

No no no, you have me all wrong. Both my children have had the MMR, I would give my next child the MMR also. I think it should be given AFTER 13mths though. Between 17-20mths.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is people DO believe it caused autism and it is very real for some people.

My post was an example. I dont even like Jenny Macarthy, she thinks her child was "undiagnosed" which I dont believe but hey ho. It was an example. I am trying to say no matter whatever science says or proves, people will ALWAYS believe it.

Its so hard to understand. I have said before I know the MMR DID not cause autism in my child, However, I know people who desperately seek answers, who saw their happy child turn into a mute after the MMR. People still believe the MMR did cause autism.

I am not sure, I dont think it caused autism in MY child, however if I did believe it caused autism in my first child, I would be more wary of vaccinating! Personally, I believe Mumps etc can be life threatening whereas autism isnt so that decision was made for me.

 

[ShanandBoc]

Im delaying the MMR i think.

I really dont know what to do tbh.

 

[tu123]

Jenny McCarthy and her vast science background?
Sorry to sound harsh, but a lot of people read these threads and I do not want anyone to be persuaded that there was any basis to the MMR-autism silliness.
Coincidence can be compelling sometimes, but let's use our collective critical faculty here. That "evidence" was tossed out many times over. It did not stand up to peer review. In fact, it ended up in quite a scandal for the doctor who put the whole theory forward.
The lesson here?
Anecdotes are dangerous.
They are emotional and persuasive and do not give you the whole picture.
Stats and studies may be boring and harder to understand, but they are far more trustworthy than some celebrity jumping on the bandwagon of a discredited and disgraced doctor.

Yes. And sadly some parents base their decisions on these. I have done a huge search using Athens database and ploughed through all the vaccine research out there. You can not find ANY substantial or accredited research that shows we should not vaccinate.

It is that simple for me. I am considering delaying the MMR to 15mths as there IS evidence that it maybe more effective if given a few months later. I also dont understand how people can link kids going weird after their shots and then leading it to autism. It take a few years for autism to even develop and thus be diagnosed. Wasnt that Twat-Wakefield's study based on 3 subjects? Woah! How valid is that to the entire population!

And most vaccines do not contain live components anymore. They are attentuated. It is why you can now take babies swimming whenever you like.

I dont agree gp surgeries should be paid so much if they fulfill their vaccine quota but this has been made worse since the Wakefield drama. He has cost the NHS millions in recampaigning.

I wont judge a mother who eventually makes the decision not to vaccinate but i will if she has not done research and just listened to personal stories.

 

[mskellydenise]

My daughter has been and will continue to receive her vaccinations...i think it is preventative and i will do anything i can to protect her

 

[KatelynsMummy]

Im all for vaccinations
I cannot and never will understand why parents chose not to, I dont see why they would rather risk a serious illness that one jab that could prevent that illness altogether .. Wouldn't ever dis-respect anyones choice though, as it is, each to their own

 

[aragornlover8]

No no no, you have me all wrong. Both my children have had the MMR, I would give my next child the MMR also. I think it should be given AFTER 13mths though. Between 17-20mths.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is people DO believe it caused autism and it is very real for some people.

My post was an example. I dont even like Jenny Macarthy, she thinks her child was "undiagnosed" which I dont believe but hey ho. It was an example. I am trying to say no matter whatever science says or proves, people will ALWAYS believe it.

Its so hard to understand. I have said before I know the MMR DID not cause autism in my child, However, I know people who desperately seek answers, who saw their happy child turn into a mute after the MMR. People still believe the MMR did cause autism.

I am not sure, I dont think it caused autism in MY child, however if I did believe it caused autism in my first child, I would be more wary of vaccinating! Personally, I believe Mumps etc can be life threatening whereas autism isnt so that decision was made for me.

I didn't mean to misread your post. I just have a knee-jerk reaction when people mention Jenny McCarthy AND the MMR-autism debate in the same sentence.

 

[mum2beagain]

i have and always will vaccinate my children to not vaccinate doesnt make sence to ME.
people who say oh but that ilness is hardly/not seen in this country any more sotherfore why are we still told to vaccinate against it well surely the reason its not seen so much is that the majority of people do vaccinate therefore the ilnesses are being deminished if we all stopped vaccinating these isnessess would all come full flow back to light surely?

 

[Sarahkka]

i have and always will vaccinate my children to not vaccinate doesnt make sence to ME.
people who say oh but that ilness is hardly/not seen in this country any more sotherfore why are we still told to vaccinate against it well surely the reason its not seen so much is that the majority of people do vaccinate therefore the ilnesses are being deminished if we all stopped vaccinating these isnessess would all come full flow back to light surely?

Yes, they would and are doing.
In areas of the US where vaccination is low, there have been resurgences of all the various diseases that the rest of us vaccinate against.

 

[aragornlover8]

i have and always will vaccinate my children to not vaccinate doesnt make sence to ME.
people who say oh but that ilness is hardly/not seen in this country any more sotherfore why are we still told to vaccinate against it well surely the reason its not seen so much is that the majority of people do vaccinate therefore the ilnesses are being deminished if we all stopped vaccinating these isnessess would all come full flow back to light surely?

Yes, they would and are doing.
In areas of the US where vaccination is low, there have been resurgences of all the various diseases that the rest of us vaccinate against.

An article to follow up on this - https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/us-measles-outbreak_n_866846.html

 

[Sarahkka]

That article was simply scary.

I knew it was bad, but some of those stats from that article and others linked below it were quite frightening.

We need to be aware that we aren't just making a decision for our own children here. Our choice impacts everyone.

 

[Ashley8806]

Parents who do not vaccinate their children put my children at risk as well, which is why I feel it is necessary. Here, to get into school, daycare, etc, you have to have them, which is the way it should be. If you choose not to get your child the MMR vaccine, for example, and they are playing at the park, they could have measles but not show signs yet, but are still contagious. Therefore, if I take my 8 or 9 month old to that park, who is not old enough to get the vaccine yet, my baby can get it and die. This has happened more than some are aware of, and it really scares me that some parents choose this decision.

I am not trying to be a b****, but this is something that I feel very strongly about.