Underhand tactics - formula companies

[smokey]

Are we still on this

Why doesnt someone phone the line, say they are pregnant and see what sort of response you get about bfeeding

I did as I have said befor in this thread, I was given good advice about they are not experts and I was given contact numbers for proper breastfeeding helplines and places where to get official advice.

That's great but not what we're talking about. We're discussing a company developing a positive brand association with a target audience they are not leagally entitiled to approach.

The point was they are not giving false info like some claim, they are not lieing just to get you to fail at bf so you will transfer to ff like some are claiming.
They are offering a service and its down to the indaviual to use it if they want to.
Just because it isnt excactly what the op was about I still have a right to deffend against statments that arnt striclty 100% correct.

When it boils down to it my baby didnt latch on not because I read an advert.
I had a nervous breakdown over my breasts being touched due to childhood experinces not because of advertising for baby milk.
I had no milk to feed my baby none of this was due to an advert.
This sort of thing happens all the time and to know there is an alternative there because you have seen an advert and not left sobbing in the corner unable to even have your baby near you and hes screaming because hes hungry and you cant even feed him because all your aware of is breast is the only option is not healthy for anyone.

 

[Rach27]

Sorry I though the topic had moved on
my mistake

Eh?

I thought that the problem was that a formula company had a help line for pregnant women and you were worried they were gonna force formula on mums to be

.....

Nope. My issue was with a formula company marketing their product indirectly to a market they are not legally entitled to service.

I don't think it would a case of ringing them up and...

Rach27: "Hello SMA, my 3 week old baby seems to be a bit sicky and windy after breastfeeding today, what would you recommend?"

SMA: "Stop breastfeeding right away and start your baby on [insert SMA product here]

...mostly as this most certainly would have been reported at some level. I'm glad they do give great advice but it can never be impartial and that is my concern.

So, to clarify, I don't think they would ever force but it would be well within their motives to suggest it (perhaps more readily than, say, a doctor) and then, by default, their product.

 

[leelee]

Sorry I though the topic had moved on
my mistake

Eh?

I thought that the problem was that a formula company had a help line for pregnant women and you were worried they were gonna force formula on mums to be

.....

Nope. My issue was with a formula company marketing their product indirectly to a market they are not legally entitled to service.

I don't think it would a case of ringing them up and...

Rach27: "Hello SMA, my 3 week old baby seems to be a bit sicky and windy after breastfeeding today, what would you recommend?"

SMA: "Stop breastfeeding right away and start your baby on [insert SMA product here]

...mostly as this most certainly would have been reported at some level. I'm glad they do give great advice but it can never be impartial and that is my concern.

Well - why don't you ring the line and say exactly what you have said and report back?

 

[Mrs Muffin]

57 pages later and people are still fooled by advertising. They are running a biased service. End of.

 

[Rach27]

Well - why don't you ring the line and say exactly what you have said and report back?

I will be writing to the ASA later on this week to highlight the issue.

 

[Celesse]

We have the NHS and formula companies telling us that "Breast is Best". Breast is NOT best. Breast is the normal and natural way to feed a baby and formula is an inferior substitute. The reason that breastfeeding has become so difficult is because formula companies have saturated us with information about formula over the last century and therefore formula has become the norm.

The best way to increase breastfeeding figures is to normalise breastfeeding again. Part of this is to remove the influence formula companies have on mothers by restricting and monitoring their advertising.

If more women are breastfeeding and breastfeeding is normal then people will have more support..... from their families, friends, neighbours. I'm sure that there are many women who would no more ask their friend for breastfeeding position advice than they would for sex position advice. 100 or so years ago when most people breast fed it was talked about, girls saw women breastfeeding and therefore had a better idea of what to do when their babies where born.

And before I get flamed for the use of the word "inferior", it is an accurate way to describe the relationship between something that is not "best". Lets not get all pedantic on wording again.

And you know full well that by using the word 'inferior' you are going to offend, upset and cause more anger on this thread. So why use it?

As you said yourself, you had issues with your LO latching so you would think that you would have more empathy for others who cannot BF due to a number of reasons outlined in this thread. But I guess your not an empathic person.

It's people like you, who use words like 'artificial' and 'inferior' knowing full well that they will offend, that will deter me from using the BF'ing section in Baby and Bump when I have another baby.

There is definitely much nicer and better support from people in the 'real' world. Some people in the online community are horrible.

What word would you have me use as an alternative? I don't think you understand the argument here and its definitely not meant in an offensive way. Breast feeding is the physiological norm. No-one questions that breast is best. And if breast is best, then formula is not best.

My point is that the Breast is Best campaign has to an extent caused damage to the breastfeeding rates. By describing breastfeeding as "Best" its give the impression that breastfeeding is superior to formula feeding, which is an acceptable norm. Most people aspire to achieve "best" but are satisfied with "normal". Breast milk is above formula milk, which makes formula milk below breast milk.

"Artificial" is not a negative word. You may feel upset by the context in which it is used, but the word it self is not negative. It merely means man made.
"Inferior" is used to describe the relationship of something to something else which is "superior". Which in this case is accurate. Saying "formula is inferior" is the same as saying "breast is best". I don't see how I could make the point without applying some negative wording to formula milk.

 

[MissBroody]

I wish my baby could read, he's due a nap and this thread would most certainly send him to sleep. The last 20 pages or so are just going round and round in circles.

That's so rude. No one is forcing you to be in here and read it

No it's not. If I didn't sit here and read it I wouldn't be able to come to the conclusion that its going round in circles, would I?

 

[dani_tinks]

 

[leelee]

We have the NHS and formula companies telling us that "Breast is Best". Breast is NOT best. Breast is the normal and natural way to feed a baby and formula is an inferior substitute. The reason that breastfeeding has become so difficult is because formula companies have saturated us with information about formula over the last century and therefore formula has become the norm.

The best way to increase breastfeeding figures is to normalise breastfeeding again. Part of this is to remove the influence formula companies have on mothers by restricting and monitoring their advertising.

If more women are breastfeeding and breastfeeding is normal then people will have more support..... from their families, friends, neighbours. I'm sure that there are many women who would no more ask their friend for breastfeeding position advice than they would for sex position advice. 100 or so years ago when most people breast fed it was talked about, girls saw women breastfeeding and therefore had a better idea of what to do when their babies where born.

And before I get flamed for the use of the word "inferior", it is an accurate way to describe the relationship between something that is not "best". Lets not get all pedantic on wording again.

And you know full well that by using the word 'inferior' you are going to offend, upset and cause more anger on this thread. So why use it?

As you said yourself, you had issues with your LO latching so you would think that you would have more empathy for others who cannot BF due to a number of reasons outlined in this thread. But I guess your not an empathic person.

It's people like you, who use words like 'artificial' and 'inferior' knowing full well that they will offend, that will deter me from using the BF'ing section in Baby and Bump when I have another baby.

There is definitely much nicer and better support from people in the 'real' world. Some people in the online community are horrible.

What word would you have me use as an alternative? I don't think you understand the argument here and its definitely not meant in an offensive way. Breast feeding is the physiological norm. No-one questions that breast is best. And if breast is best, then formula is not best.

My point is that the Breast is Best campaign has to an extent caused damage to the breastfeeding rates. By describing breastfeeding as "Best" its give the impression that breastfeeding is superior to formula feeding, which is an acceptable norm. Most people aspire to achieve "best" but are satisfied with "normal". Breast milk is above formula milk, which makes formula milk below breast milk.

"Artificial" is not a negative word. You may feel upset by the context in which it is used, but the word it self is not negative. It merely means man made.
"Inferior" is used to describe the relationship of something to something else which is "superior". Which in this case is accurate. Saying "formula is inferior" is the same as saying "breast is best". I don't see how I could make the point without applying some negative wording to formula milk.

I understand the argument perfectly well and am very pro-BF'ing.

What I am saying is there are certain ways that things can be phrased and calling formula 'inferior' is bound to cause offence. However, if you had said formula is second best then it isn't so harsh or offensive.

I can see by the way you contruct your posts that you are an intelligent woman, so you know full well that using certain words in threads like this is going to hurt and anger some people. Yet you continue to use them.

It just saddens me again and again on this thread that people seem to have no boundaries when it comes to respecting other people's feelings.

 

[AP]

Seriously, no-one is 'right', its just an opinion. If its not affecting you personally, what is the problem?

 

[AppleBlossom]

Lol I know I said I was leaving but I can't help myself.

I read a post, can't remember who from, that said that when saying everyone knows breast is best they must know formula isn't best so shouldn't be offended when people say formula is artificial and inferior...

In a way, yes, we DO know formula isn't as good as BM. But that doesn't mean you should rub it in the faces of those who FF that the way you feed your child is more superior than the way they feed theirs.

Why do people feel the need to interfere in the way people feed their children? If I knew someone who fed their child nothing but chicken nuggets and fizzy drinks, I wouldn't necessarily agree with it but I wouldn't go giving them a leaflet on how to get your 5 a day or child obesity. It's not my place to do so. It's their child, their decision. My daughter eats healthily, I won't lie and say she never has junk food because occasionally she does. I know in my own heart that I do the best for her in every way possible. But she was formula fed as BFing proved a struggle for the both of us (won't go into it) and people often tell me I had failed her and that I was selfish to give up. A lot of people on here often make digs like that, saying "Well it was hard but my own selfish needs didn't come before my baby and what was best for them" and tbh, although I feel no guilt for stopping BFing because it was the right choice for us, these kinds of comment piss me off. How dare people make out like FFers are failures or insinuate that they're selfish? My child is healthy, happy and exceptionally bright for her age. And believe it or not, she got that way being a formula fed child. Like I have said countless times through this thread, people have a choice. A choice they are very much entitled to. You can choose to breastfeed. You can choose to formula feed. People don't slag off those who choose to breast feed so why should it be ok to do it the other way around? If you don't like it, tough. It's not your problem. Get on with your own parenting and stop worrying so much about everyone else. As long as you know your child is getting the best care from you then it seriously doesn't matter.

In a shitty mood today so yeah, sorry for the rant but this thread is doing my head in but I still can't keep away

 

[dani_tinks]

Lol I know I said I was leaving but I can't help myself.

I read a post, can't remember who from, that said that when saying everyone knows breast is best they must know formula isn't best so shouldn't be offended when people say formula is artificial and inferior...

In a way, yes, we DO know formula isn't as good as BM. But that doesn't mean you should rub it in the faces of those who FF that the way you feed your child is more superior than the way they feed theirs.

Why do people feel the need to interfere in the way people feed their children? If I knew someone who fed their child nothing but chicken nuggets and fizzy drinks, I wouldn't necessarily agree with it but I wouldn't go giving them a leaflet on how to get your 5 a day or child obesity. It's not my place to do so. It's their child, their decision. My daughter eats healthily, I won't lie and say she never has junk food because occasionally she does. I know in my own heart that I do the best for her in every way possible. But she was formula fed as BFing proved a struggle for the both of us (won't go into it) and people often tell me I had failed her and that I was selfish to give up. A lot of people on here often make digs like that, saying "Well it was hard but my own selfish needs didn't come before my baby and what was best for them" and tbh, although I feel no guilt for stopping BFing because it was the right choice for us, these kinds of comment piss me off. How dare people make out like FFers are failures or insinuate that they're selfish? My child is healthy, happy and exceptionally bright for her age. And believe it or not, she got that way being a formula fed child. Like I have said countless times through this thread, people have a choice. A choice they are very much entitled to. You can choose to breastfeed. You can choose to formula feed. People don't slag off those who choose to breast feed so why should it be ok to do it the other way around? If you don't like it, tough. It's not your problem. Get on with your own parenting and stop worrying so much about everyone else. As long as you know your child is getting the best care from you then it seriously doesn't matter.

In a shitty mood today so yeah, sorry for the rant but this thread is doing my head in but I still can't keep away

xx

 

[Dragonfly]

whos slagging formula off?

 

[AP]

People don't slag off those who choose to breast feed so why should it be ok to do it the other way around? .

That is true.

 

[AppleBlossom]

whos slagging formula off?

People are forever slagging formula off. Not eveyone in the thread but I have come across one or two comments.

 

[smokey]

can people please have a bit of respect and stop using the term artificial purley because it is upsetting some people.
It doesnt matter how technicaly correct it is or what health proffesionals are using it, if it is offending some people then then why keep using it and bringing it back up over and over again other then the fact you can technicaly get away with offending people by using this as a loophole to do it just because a hv once said it.

 

[bubbles123]

So, I've bathed, dressed, fed (solids and milk) my LO and just put him down for another nap... and we're still here! Seriously though I think it's important that Bf'ers and Ff'ers talk to each other... I think otherwise we're going to create a 'them and us' situation, which will help no one. We need tp find some common ground.
And with terms like artificial, inferior etc 'sticks and stones' is all I can say. Words can't hurt you. Don't let them get to you. No one can make you feel bad about anything unless you let them. Now I must do the washing.

 

[pheobe]

To the ladies who like to tell us FF's over and over again that formula in inferior are you as passionate about only feeding home grown organic produce and home cooked meals.

Organic produce is free from chemicals and home grown food has not been treated for transport so is therefore fresher and again chemical free so the much better option. Non Organic and imported food is therefore the 'inferior' option. Will you only feed your LO home cooked meals from said organic produce??

Just interested!........

 

[aob1013]

To the ladies who like to tell us FF's over and over again that formula in inferior are you as passionate about only feeding home grown organic produce and home cooked meals.

Organic produce is free from chemicals and home grown food has not been treated for transport so is therefore fresher and again chemical free so the much better option. Non Organic and imported food is therefore the 'inferior' option. Will you only feed your LO home cooked meals from said organic produce??

Just interested!........

As much as i can and within reason, yes.

 

[Sherileigh]

and i dont get why some are so uber defensive about this

I think the concern about ads like this is for other mums rather than ourselves. many mums are vulnerable and dont have that much support around them, or ways to get impartial help. companies like this put subtle pressure on people to buy their products. ALl companies do this of course! Its just that mums are often an extra vulnerable "market" for them. And we can easily make the mistake of thinking they are just trying to help ... when they dont give a shit about us (as mothers I mean ... we are just consumers to them) they just want our £ and they dont care how they get it. That's how they're being manipulative.

And you said it ... its not actually an advert for baby milk, its an advert for their helpline. They would like us to see it as an ad for their milk, when they are not supposed to. That's how they're being underhanded.

Im not sure this is actually going to be a helpful thread after all ........ it seems too many people just get too defensive to be abel to step back and think about the bigger picture. Oh well.

I've only read the first couple of pages on this thread, but I don't think anyone is getting...'uber defensive', just voicing opinions disagreeing that this is underhanded or manipulative or whatever the term was. I agree, this is just a company, offering a service and also advertising their product. What's the big deal?