Underhand tactics - formula companies

[Tiff]

I also wonder why so many more women today can't breastfeed compared to earlier days... ? Not including the Mums who decide not to for personal reasons... but I rarely hear anyone say they just didn't want to breastfeed, most say they couldn't...

I thought this was interesting! Its true, it does seem like there's more of that nowadays eh? My personal belief is that we now live in an society where information is so readily available so its easier to see just how many people are doing things, and their lifestyle choices.

I know I'm giving away my age here but when I was a teen it was ground breaking even going to a chat site, let alone a forum where you get opinions from people around the world!

Tbh, I think there have always been around the same amounts (since formula was introduced anyways) but just not enough of an avenue to broadcast to the world about it.

Not sure if I'm making sense?

 

[Mum2b_Claire]

It's because of a lack of realistic information of what BF is like. Many people I know who say they couldn't usually mean that they think they don't have enough milk because it was never explained to them newborn babies feed constantly, that they cluster feed, go through growth spurts etc. They think that they should just offer the breast every few hours and if that's not enough for baby then they must not have enough milk. And this is not their fault - the NHS is guilty sometimes of painting too rosy a picture of Bf'ing. I guess they don't want to put people off. Also, tongue ties are not properly dealt with in many areas, we have the spectacularly unhelpful 'if it hurts your doing it wrong,' and finally I think many people say they can't because it's more socially acceptable than saying you just didn't want to.

I completely agree. Plus because of the 'fashion' for formula feeding in past years, our extended families are now not as able to help us with breastfeeding as previous generations would have been.
I could breastfeed, but my baby couldn't. With more family support however, who knows?

 

[Rach27]

Totally agree Bubbles and Mum2B - in fact the whole extended family arrangement would come in very handy with a small baby around IMHO.

Also, the NHS don't encourage co-sleeping which helps me HEAPS in terms of breastfeeding.

 

[Eve]

I grew up in the States and can honestly not remember any FF commercials whether it was because I wasn't looking I dunno?

Here on TLC I see LOADS of Pampers and Gerber commercials but the only FF commercials I've seen have always aired after 9 p.m.? I don't watch much tv during the day now but when I was pregnant I watched loads of those baby shows, been racking my brain all day and again I don't remember seeing any FF commercials during that time. might be a difference of areas as well??

could be. I know I see the Gerber goodstart one a lot... and there was the Enfamil Premium one too, I spoke to a friend and found out I guess it's the US version of A+ here.

Whats Gerber? is it just another formula brand?

Gerber does a lot of baby and toddler foods/snacks, here at least. I've not seen that they do a formula, but different areas do have different formula brands and I don't really know all the brands of formula that are sold in the States

Gerber good start is a formula... I know we used to have Nestle Good Start... but maybe Gerber has it in the US. The commercial I posted a few pages back was for Gerber formula. Not sure about the kind here in Canada.

 

[aliss]

Other reasons why a lot of modern women cannot BF compared to the past:
- Would not be allowed to use goat's milk or cow's milk as a substitute for newborns (popular in the old countries, at least it was in Hungary where my family is from)
- Disease (HIV), hepatitis (yes you can BF with hepatitis but I think far too many women are too scared)
- Breast reduction (you never got one back in the day)
- Mastectomy (you didn't get one or you just died of cancer)

My reason:
- Baby is injured at birth and could not take the breast, pumping did not produce enough (believe me, I pumped for a long time) and eventually supply dwindled. I tried everything. Even La Leche League admitted this wasn't happening for me after several visits.

I know a lot of women who say they "can't" did not go to the ends of the earth to try like some other women have. Is it really our place to judge them? Remember, 1-2% of women still equals millions of babies.

 

[Mum2b_Claire]

I think 1-2% is the number with actual physiological reasons why they cannot breastfeed, the number who find it impossible to establish feeding because of other difficulties (that may have been resolved with better support) is surely much much higher.
No it is not our place to judge anyone who says they couldn't BF, I quite agree. I think we ARE entitled to judge HCPs who provide poor support or give misleading info that is detrimental to breastfeeding, however.

 

[Rach27]

As an aside, this is what I trying to do to help with the lack of BF support issue. The idea is to promote what's there at a local level and encourage mums to use them when needed. In areas where support is seriously lacking, I guess we campaign for a better deal!!

 

[cb1]

It's because of a lack of realistic information of what BF is like. Many people I know who say they couldn't usually mean that they think they don't have enough milk because it was never explained to them newborn babies feed constantly, that they cluster feed, go through growth spurts etc. They think that they should just offer the breast every few hours and if that's not enough for baby then they must not have enough milk. And this is not their fault - the NHS is guilty sometimes of painting too rosy a picture of Bf'ing. I guess they don't want to put people off. Also, tongue ties are not properly dealt with in many areas, we have the spectacularly unhelpful 'if it hurts your doing it wrong,' and finally I think many people say they can't because it's more socially acceptable than saying you just didn't want to.

It's not just the NHS, I did an NCT breastfeeding course, and the message there was still "it shouldn't hurt - if it hurts your doing it wrong". There was also no info about growth spurts, cluster feeding, etc. I know they don't want to put people off, but if it wasn't for a local 24 hour helpline I think that I, along with a number of the other mums from my course, would have given up in the first few weeks... Personally I think the antinatal classes should cover the reality of breastfeeding so you know what to expect, along with information on what local support is available after baby is born. I would also go as far as to say that the classes should cover all aspects of feeding baby, including expressing, combination, and formula feeding.

 

[aliss]

I guess it depends on location, here in western Canada there is no FF info available from HCPs. The health books just say to call LLL if you are considering formula.

 

[hivechild]

I actually just read the disclaimer on SMA's website (before you can enter)...

Please read this important notice before you view further information about SMA infant formulas:

When it comes to feeding your baby, breast is best. If you do choose to breastfeed, it's important to eat a healthy diet. A decision not to breastfeed can be difficult to reverse. Introducing a bottle, even if it's only for one feed a day, can have a negative effect on breastfeeding and may reduce the supply of breast milk. Always seek the advice of a healthcare professional if you'd like to use infant formula, and please consider the social and financial implications when deciding whether to breast or bottle-feed. To avoid risks to your baby's health, infant formula should always be prepared, used and stored as instructed on the label.

By proceeding, you will be able to view information about SMA infant milks and other formulas. If you choose to do so, you are accepting that SMA Nutrition is providing this information at your individual request for informational purposes.

I'm 7 months into BFing and I found myself caught up for a second thinking, 'Wait, what? Social implications to how I feed my child?' *cue momentary sinking feeling* That, to me, is the power of the word; insidious and cunning while said with a beneficent smile upon the face. Humans are social creatures, and no one wants to be ostracized from the crowd.

It could be argued that there are social implications no matter how you choose to feed, but I think I can safely say there are few who would argue for any reason other than to argue, that socially and publicly, it's more accepted right now to feed your child with a bottle than at the breast, and that's what will come to mind for most people when advised to consider the social implications of how they feed their baby.

Maybe it's just me, though. Did it stand out to anyone else?

 

[Tiff]

I do agree, when I was struggling with Claire being told "if it hurts, you're doing it wrong" just made me mad. I was like THEN MAKE IT STOP HURTING!!! Rather than having it explained better about developing tolerances and whatnot.

Nebulous statements like that hinder rather than help, IMO.

 

[hivechild]

Totally agree Bubbles and Mum2B - in fact the whole extended family arrangement would come in very handy with a small baby around IMHO.

Also, the NHS don't encourage co-sleeping which helps me HEAPS in terms of breastfeeding.

I had my mum staying with me (she came over from Australia) for the first 5 weeks after Ronan was born and her help was invaluable. It was her who convinced me to give co-sleeping a go, even if only during naps during the day. I was exhausted beyond exhausted and terrified and convinced co-sleeping was dangerous and a no go.

She told me to knock it off, leave the monkey where he was snuggled up fast asleep with me on the bed after a feed, and to close my eyes, promising me she'd come in periodically to check on us both. When you're taking things hour by hour in those early days, getting even one hour of solid sleep can make all the difference to making it through the next few, as silly as that sounds when you're not actually living it.

 

[MissBroody]

Totally agree Bubbles and Mum2B - in fact the whole extended family arrangement would come in very handy with a small baby around IMHO.

Also, the NHS don't encourage co-sleeping which helps me HEAPS in terms of breastfeeding.

I had my mum staying with me (she came over from Australia) for the first 5 weeks after Ronan was born and her help was invaluable. It was her who convinced me to give co-sleeping a go, even if only during naps during the day. I was exhausted beyond exhausted and terrified and convinced co-sleeping was dangerous and a no go.

She told me to knock it off, leave the monkey where he was snuggled up fast asleep with me on the bed after a feed, and to close my eyes, promising me she'd come in periodically to check on us both. When you're taking things hour by hour in those early days, getting even one hour of solid sleep can make all the difference to making it through the next few, as silly as that sounds when you're not actually living it.

So true and what a wonderful mum you have. My mum was also invaluable in the early days, and still is now. xx

 

[hivechild]

I do agree, when I was struggling with Claire being told "if it hurts, you're doing it wrong" just made me mad. I was like THEN MAKE IT STOP HURTING!!! Rather than having it explained better about developing tolerances and whatnot.

Nebulous statements like that hinder rather than help, IMO.

It's sad that this belief is still perpetuated, but I can see how it is. Before Ronan was born, and with what I had read and learned at that point, I believed that was the case, too, and I even said it, I'm ashamed now to say.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. If you say it can hurt even when you're doing it right, then it can discourage someone from even trying because hey, it might hurt and even if you're doing everything right, there's nothing you can do but grit your teeth through the pain. Birth hurts too, but that doesn't last for weeks on end and you can even get an epidural for that.

There has to be a perfect balance between painting a realistic, but hopeful and encouraging picture of breastfeeding, but it seems to be an extremely difficult balance to find.

 

[Mum2b_Claire]

I do think a big part of the problem is that society is so different these days, expects women to be everything to everyone! mothers, partners, career women, while still looking glamorous, etc etc. I'm not saying that it is wrong but I do think that it is unhelpful for breastfeeding and baby led parenting in general; so many women feel they cannot spend hours at a time with a baby attached to them / sleeping on them / needing cuddles and close contact, because they need to do other things. In times gone by, extended families would be helping with the womens other responsibilities leaving them able to devote themselves to their baby. This is a rarity now.

 

[crossroads]

I do agree, when I was struggling with Claire being told "if it hurts, you're doing it wrong" just made me mad. I was like THEN MAKE IT STOP HURTING!!! Rather than having it explained better about developing tolerances and whatnot.

Nebulous statements like that hinder rather than help, IMO.

It's sad that this belief is still perpetuated, but I can see how it is. Before Ronan was born, and with what I had read and learned at that point, I believed that was the case, too, and I even said it, I'm ashamed now to say.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. If you say it can hurt even when you're doing it right, then it can discourage someone from even trying because hey, it might hurt and even if you're doing everything right, there's nothing you can do but grit your teeth through the pain. Birth hurts too, but that doesn't last for weeks on end and you can even get an epidural for that.

There has to be a perfect balance between painting a realistic, but hopeful and encouraging picture of breastfeeding, but it seems to be an extremely difficult balance to find.

I totally agree. I'm frustrated that no one told me how challanging breastfeeding can be for the mother. I'd love to guest speak at antenatal classes to tell first timers the real experience but I'd probably be thrown out after the first class

 

[Tiff]

Its totally a double edged sword for sure. I mean, its good to educate and whatnot but at the same time I can see how people would be worried that if its made known just HOW hard and challenging it can be they'd be afraid of it?

But then again, everyone knows how hard/challenging labour is... and we still all go through it.

 

[Wobbles]

Guess what not only is this a bit of a feeding debate/discussion STILL OPEN but it has 1396 replies the longest thread in Baby Club, the next longest has 524

I thought it was interesting to look anyway

 

[MissBroody]

I do think a big part of the problem is that society is so different these days, expects women to be everything to everyone! mothers, partners, career women, while still looking glamorous, etc etc. I'm not saying that it is wrong but I do think that it is unhelpful for breastfeeding and baby led parenting in general; so many women feel they cannot spend hours at a time with a baby attached to them / sleeping on them / needing cuddles and close contact, because they need to do other things. In times gone by, extended families would be helping with the womens other responsibilities leaving them able to devote themselves to their baby. This is a rarity now.

I agree. I'm a believer that it takes a village to raise a baby. We live with my parents currently and we're all very hands on with LO. He would happily go to any one of us and we all know what he likes/dislikes etc. My parents also help with the washing, cooking etc freeing me up to spend a lot of time with my LO.

 

[Rach27]

I do think a big part of the problem is that society is so different these days, expects women to be everything to everyone! mothers, partners, career women, while still looking glamorous, etc etc. I'm not saying that it is wrong but I do think that it is unhelpful for breastfeeding and baby led parenting in general; so many women feel they cannot spend hours at a time with a baby attached to them / sleeping on them / needing cuddles and close contact, because they need to do other things. In times gone by, extended families would be helping with the womens other responsibilities leaving them able to devote themselves to their baby. This is a rarity now.

I agree. I'm a believer that it takes a village to raise a baby. We live with my parents currently and we're all very hands on with LO. He would happily go to any one of us and we all know what he likes/dislikes etc. My parents also help with the washing, cooking etc freeing me up to spend a lot of time with my LO.

That's so awesome My mum lives overseas and my MiL was...well rather hands off unfortunately. She's a bit better now but I must admit I could have really done with her help at the start.