United States is the worst country could health care.

[messica]

Wanted to add to OP specifically - after having my first two pregnancies confirmed at women's public health clinics (Birthline) I applied with my county and was instantly approved for Medicare. All I had to provide was proof of my age, income and verification of pregnancy. I had ultrasounds at 5 and 6 weeks respectively and the care I received throughout was adequate. Not nearly as detailed and personalized as I have access to now but there was no delay in services and my children today are happy and healthy because of the prenatal care I was able to receive.

If you're concerned about having to wait I'd say get on board with an advocate service (such as Planned Parenthood, Birthline, Birthright or whatever is similar in your area). A lot of times they can assist you in filling out paperwork so things are expedited.

Best of luck to you

 

[2have4kids]

Why you care so much about the US healthcare system is your business but I actually live here and have more of a right to say how I believe things should be done than you.

I have family in California who can't get decent healthcare. It's not only concerning for OP, it's concerning for those with friends, family over there, I can empathize. It's not ok as the pp said to pay that much for Obamacare, agreed, and hopefully as they get past square 1 and like you said with some audits, build up a very lacking public system, eventually the costs will go down and like the Common Wealth nation, quality will rise. No hostility here, just hoping for a better system for Americans and hoping the majority want that for themselves too.

I'm pretty passionate about it because I believe it's discriminatory to only have systems that work for the wealthy and I fear Canada is moving towards the destruction of healthcare and social systems that the US has seen under Bush. I don't take kindly to you telling b&bers you have more of a right to an opinion because you live in the USA as opposed to the UK or Canada, as you did above. You painted a beautiful picture of your thoughts with your crayons. I def couldn't go there myself.

 

[KirinM]

I don't really understand why any person would be against adopting the system we have in the UK or Canada. It's universal free healthcare and if a high standard.

My brother was attacked and needed brain surgery - free on the nhs.
I had an ectopic - I was seen every other day for 3 months including being admitted as an in patient once - free.
I'm epileptic and I see a neurologist and have medication - all free.

I actually get private health insurance through my job but to date I've not needed to use it.

2havekids - Current UK government are trying to privatise the NHS as they're selling contracts to private companies who are found to be seriously lacking in quality.

 

[messica]

I don't really understand why any person would be against adopting the system we have in the UK or Canada. It's universal free healthcare and if a high standard.

My brother was attacked and needed brain surgery - free on the nhs.
I had an ectopic - I was seen every other day for 3 months including being admitted as an in patient once - free.
I'm epileptic and I see a neurologist and have medication - all free.

I actually get private health insurance through my job but to date I've not needed to use it.

2havekids - Current UK government are trying to privatise the NHS as they're selling contracts to private companies who are found to be seriously lacking in quality.

That you think it's free is strange......

Universal health care isn't free. And what's being instituted here is actually far more expensive than what is currently available privately. Obamacare does not help the poor, it hurts them because now they will be punished for not being able to afford it. The only people who can afford Obamacare ARE the wealthy, and they don't need it!


As far as being able to afford care, you're talking to the mother of a child who had a VP shunt placed at the age of one on Medicare ("free") and taken out when I was a single mother with no coverage due to it's failure. Multitude of really complex testing at a specialized Children's Hospital, a week stay in hospital with one of the top pediatric neurologists in the country operating on her brain and follow up care.....still cost me less than one months premiums at sparse bronze coverage of Obamacare. It's been two years the end of this week and I guarantee I'd still be paying off that bill if I had Obamacare vs. no coverage at all.

That there is this assumption that if you have no coverage you receive no care is ludicrous. Most physicians and hospitals have blanket clauses that they will treat with or without insurance to back you up. There are organizations set up to off set the costs for the uninsured and they do work for most (they are based on income and offer flexible payment plans for balances due). As an uninsured person I was never once denied healthcare or treated any differently than an insured person. I still saw all the exact same doctors I did when on Medicare and still received the exact same level of care.

The only difference now being privately insured, is I have access to additional covered services like infertility treatment. I could have certainly gone and sought them before, but paying out of pocket for what I have access to now would have been a hardship.

 

[minties]

I 1000% would not swap my New Zealand public maternity healthcare system.

My own independant midwife? Check. Do I have to wait until a certain stage of pregnancy to see her? No, I can even see her for TTC and score some free pee sticks.

Do I have to wait for scans in a busy hospital? No, we have independant companies here. I make my own appointments. I get a DVD. It's either free or heavily sibsidised.

I love that I see the same woman through my pregnancy and birth. She comes to my house to visit me for 6 weeks after I have my baby too. Continuity of care is very important to me.

I can text or call her any time, day or night.

I cam choose home, hospital or birthing centre birth (well the average NZder can, I've had 2 Caesar's).

I don't much like the look of the UK or USA :-/

 

[messica]

I 1000% would not swap my New Zealand public maternity healthcare system.

My own independant midwife? Check. Do I have to wait until a certain stage of pregnancy to see her? No, I can even see her for TTC and score some free pee sticks.

Do I have to wait for scans in a busy hospital? No, we have independant companies here. I make my own appointments. I get a DVD. It's either free or heavily sibsidised.

I love that I see the same woman through my pregnancy and birth. She comes to my house to visit me for 6 weeks after I have my baby too. Continuity of care is very important to me.

I can text or call her any time, day or night.

I cam choose home, hospital or birthing centre birth (well the average NZder can, I've had 2 Caesar's).

I don't much like the look of the UK or USA :-/

I can't speak for the UK but your experience is absolutely no different for women in the United States both on the existing Medicare system.

I don't know why you would assume otherwise?

I didn't have a midwife but I choose my own OB (and had access to a midwife if I wanted to), saw them and only them when I wanted to (there was no delay in care), did all my scans in house (not at a busy hospital, and I had many due to preterm labor), could contact them at anytime day or night and there was absolutely access to follow up care post partum.


I'm curious what you think the differences are?

 

[2have4kids]

messica no pubic healthcare is free, she didn't say that. When she says free, she means she doesn't pay premiums, Minties likely doesn't pay either - one of those differences that you spoke about. Maybe in the States there are affordable insurance options but are they available in all states? If covered privately, does it cover pre-existing conditions? It sounds to me from hearing the complaints from family and B&Bers it's not consistent and there are rampant abuses to good paying insurance recipients who think they're covered until their insurance refuses to pay up for some silly reason or another. My employer pays my insurance premium (additional to the public health care that I receive) and that gets me all the extras like massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, travel insurance etc. Our taxes are 5% which I think is pretty low as well, so there's no comparison to your premiums, deductibles and all of the good people who are without because they can't afford them.

To say that you'd rather pay for what you use, ie when you didn't have coverage as a dayhome owner, you put both yourself and family at huge risk were to be diagnosed with cancer or something with massive drug/surgery expenses that the average person can't afford. You can't just walk up to an insurance company once diagnosed with something horrific and think they'll pay for those existing conditions-you'd be completely hooped. That's just not something those of us with public healthcare would risk.

When you go from nothing to something (start up of a public healthcare system), initial costs are pretty big. It's too bad Obamacare is as expensive as you say but those costs will come down. The public system has a better ability to control costs as the client base is larger. The longer it exists under careful management, quality will go up. That's a certainty as the rest of the developed world is already there. One day you're kids won't have to pay expensive premiums and deductibles for what most Common Wealth countries get for a fraction of the cost. Or hope they don't make too much $$ so they qualify for Medicaid. We pay next to nothing for an amazing amount of services in case we need them as well as the peace of mind that a lack of insurance won't mean a death sentence if a horrific event happens like cancer or other serious conditions. Those are the unspoken truths that allow people like Michael Moore to make movies and get people like me upset with an Auntie in California who has insurance refusing to pay her medical expenses.

BTW, if you were in the UK you likely won't need to pay the $10,000 in fees that you're looking at for ivf, most women get 3 cracks at it with NHS if you're not too old.

 

[RinnaRoo]

I live in Michigan and have BCBS, I pay $84 a pay period for a family which also includes dental. My plan covers 80% of my of my labor and delivery and all of my prenatal visits, IF I happen to magically meet the 12,000 deducible; which I never will. So I applied for Medicaid for pregnant women and got approved for that right away. Now all the stress of costs is gone off me. Medicaid in Michigan has to approve you if you're pregnant. GL with everything!

 

[KirinM]

I'm quite aware that the nhs is funded through tax and national insurance but I would guess I pay significantly less than I would for an insurance premium per month and the nhs covers me for ALL possibilities.

I started spotting last night so called my GP this morning, was given an instant referral for a scan just for reassurance.

As for negligence I'm sure there's negligence in public healthcare but I know for sure there is in the private sector due to the nature of my job.

I don't know much about America I'll admit so I have a question. If, say, you had a medical emergency - you've been attacked or whatever, can you just go to a hospital and be treated?

 

[messica]

I'm quite aware that the nhs is funded through tax and national insurance but I would guess I pay significantly less than I would for an insurance premium per month and the nhs covers me for ALL possibilities.

I started spotting last night so called my GP this morning, was given an instant referral for a scan just for reassurance.

As for negligence I'm sure there's negligence in public healthcare but I know for sure there is in the private sector due to the nature of my job.

I don't know much about America I'll admit so I have a question. If, say, you had a medical emergency - you've been attacked or whatever, can you just go to a hospital and be treated?[/QUOTE]


Thank you for asking instead of just assuming based on the crazy and incorrect international scandalous and dramatic rumors that are out there

And the answer is absolutely. If you're in a wreck, get sick, are attacked, fall down and break your arm or whatever....regardless of what kind of insurance you have you simply choose a clinic or hospital and go in for treatment.


The bit about cancer brought up earlier by 2have4kids - there are plenty of options. If I would have come down with a disease uninsured it would not have meant I'd have had to sacrifice ever getting treatment. Every clinic and hospital I've ever been seen at, if you have trouble paying, they offer charity (for lack of a better word) to offset expenses as well as a payment plan based on your income to take care of your remaining balance. I've never been turned away for treatment because I was uninsured nor been delayed care. Ever.

I didn't put anyone at risk in regards to my choice to remain uninsured save for my credit own personal credit score. At the very worst bankruptcy is an option for those who end up burdened with extremely high medical debt and that's hardly the end of the world when you're talking life and death. It simply means you can't buy things you can't afford up front for a number of years.

Your assertion that costs will come down after the initial start up are ludicrous. If that were true it would apply across the board for all social programs. Our current government welfare system alone proves you wrong as it's only gotten MORE expensive to maintain.

 

[messica]

BTW, if you were in the UK you likely won't need to pay the $10,000 in fees that you're looking at for ivf, most women get 3 cracks at it with NHS if you're not too old.

The freedom associated with our previous system, leaving the people the right to choose coverage or refrain from acquiring it, is well worth having to bear that personal expense.

My country's liberties are worth more to me than a single and individual benefit.

To believe otherwise would be incredibly selfish imo.


This is the difference between socialist practice, and those that govern a republic

 

[mara16jade]

We (me and DH) pay $300/month total with a $100 (each) deducible. That includes dental. For birth, I have my options of a doctor, midwife or both and I can do an assortment of different types of births if I choose. With my insurance, pregnancy is 100% covered: pre/postnatal, baby checkups, scans, and birth. We do have to pay $250.00 for the check-in to the hospital to give birth. Not bad if you ask me...

How much in taxes do people pay for government run healthcare?

And the question someone asked about if we get in accident can we go to any hospital? Yes, of course. Doctors are not allowed to turn you away. And with my insurance at least, I will not be charged for going to an "out of area" doctor for an emergency. The ambulance is not going to waste time finding a (for example) Kaiser hospital to drive someone to when another hospital is right there. lol

Spoiler

When my family was visiting our extended family in France, they had to ask us about the "horrible" hospitals here. They were told by their government, and it was "common knowledge" that if you can't pay for your health services, the doctors would leave you DYING in the hallways. They were told that Americans commonly die in hospitals in the hallways because they were refused medical care. It took a lot of conversations, some heated, to explain to them that that was simply not true. Wow!

 

[deafgal]

Right doctors are not allow to turn you away ...but according to this medical bills is the biggest cause of bankruptcy: https://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

 

[RinnaRoo]

If you have every day Medicaid in the US, you don't have to pay anything, unless for some odd reason that treatment isn't covered. It also covers dental, emergency, medications, hospice, regular doctor visits and a ton of other things. It really is the best way to go.
Im not sure about the Affordable Care Act. I know that you pick a plan, which may or may not be super affordable, and you pay that monthly. The deducible can also be quite pricey. Not everything a person may need is covered with the ACA either.
As far as walking in some where without insurance, its best to go to the ER for something like that, which people do alllllll the time. You get stuck with a full price bill, but they cannot legally turn you away. Dental offices can turn you away though, mostly because they are a private practice. I work in public health myself, and we aren't allowed to turn a patient away with a medical issue. We HAVE to find a way to see them.

 

[Celesse]

I never really thought of NHS as being lack of choice. We have so much choice. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your hospital, you can choose an epidural, you can choose gas and air, you can choose to have a VBAC, where ever you live..... you can choose to have a twin double breech water HBAC if you wanted and you would still have a qualified midwife attend. And it doesn't matter how rich or poor you are you still get that choice.

If you do have a little bit of extra money you can choose private health care. But NHS health care is really good. So good in fact, that the Zara Tindall, the queens granddaughter, recently gave in the Maternity Unit of an NHS hospital.

I'm not sure how we could possibly have more choice under a private/insurance based health care system. We currently have access to EVERYTHING. If you earn £25,000 a year, then of your taxes £1,094 ($1812) would go towards the NHS. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16744819 . Prescriptions are a little on top, but not when pregnant or within a yr of giving birth, and NHS dental has some fee's, small in comparison to the private equivalent. But other than that all free at the point of delivery and inclusive of everything.

So that's £21 ($34) a week, no deductibles for all health care.

ETA: and if your not working, under 16/19, pregnant, just had a baby, elderly, a student then you don't have to pay full prescription charges and dental fees.

 

[messica]

I never really thought of NHS as being lack of choice. We have so much choice. You can choose your doctor, you can choose your hospital, you can choose an epidural, you can choose gas and air, you can choose to have a VBAC, where ever you live..... you can choose to have a twin double breech water HBAC if you wanted and you would still have a qualified midwife attend. And it doesn't matter how rich or poor you are you still get that choice.

If you do have a little bit of extra money you can choose private health care. But NHS health care is really good. So good in fact, that the Zara Tindall, the queens granddaughter, recently gave in the Maternity Unit of an NHS hospital.

I'm not sure how we could possibly have more choice under a private/insurance based health care system. We currently have access to EVERYTHING. If you earn £25,000 a year, then of your taxes £1,094 ($1812) would go towards the NHS. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16744819 . Prescriptions are a little on top, but not when pregnant or within a yr of giving birth, and NHS dental has some fee's, small in comparison to the private equivalent. But other than that all free at the point of delivery and inclusive of everything.

So that's £21 ($34) a week, no deductibles for all health care.

ETA: and if your not working, under 16/19, pregnant, just had a baby, elderly, a student then you don't have to pay full prescription charges and dental fees.

I don't think anyone has said your country's NHS amounts to a lack of choice.

What has been said is that "Obamacare"(thanks RinnaRoo for referring to it as the ACA, I'm so used to the slang term lol) has taken away American's right remain uninsured. It's now become a forced purchase if that makes sense. How would you feel if your government entity decided you needed a car and you must purchase one by the such and such a date, even if you disagreed you needed one? And if you didn't you'd have to pay a penalty tax?

Add to that it's a progressive tax so if you choose not to pay it two years in a row that number goes up, choose not to pay it three years in a row and that number goes up again, and so on and so forth.

Choose not to pay the penalty taxes and the IRS will come for your personal property, your home, and you may very well face incarceration.


It seems there are lots of people here in other countries who believe American's lacked choices for care before, when really we didn't. We already had access to everything you describe in your above and beyond. Just because we (did not) have what amounts to NHS before, does not mean American's, insured or uninsured, had delayed or substandard care. To the contrary, that doctors didn't have the right to turn patients away meant everyone had a right to care.

That will change once people feel the need to "get their money's worth" by going in at the drop of a hat from here on out.

I'm not claiming they're true but I've heard plenty of horror stories about those with socialized care not receiving care because others before them are deemed at higher need, or they're merely tagged as too sick to put effort forth to save at all. Stories about people dying while waiting, or being told they're not even worth it. At that point the government is controlling who receives what services the people are entitled to and I think that's quite the slippery slope as far as freedoms go.


ETA - whether or not one pays premiums or deductibles isn't the end all be all. You have to look at what one pays across the board (premiums, deductibles and taxes/deductions) and the services they receive (access to care and what kind) to fairly compare.

 

[messica]

Right doctors are not allow to turn you away ...but according to this medical bills is the biggest cause of bankruptcy: https://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

Love this article because it points out that bankruptcy filed due to outstanding medical bills happens to the uninsured AND the insured alike


Having health insurance will not prevent people from experiencing that level of hardship.

 

[Scout]

I'm in the US and the UK system seems ideal to me. I have insurance now, but was without it for 2 years and I just prayed I wouldn't get sick or hurt. The difference between having insurance and not is huge. When I didn't have it, I realized that medical care was a privilege and not a right, and that's sad. (I'm speaking from my own personal experience and am not referring to any life threatening injury or illness)
.

 

[2have4kids]

IMO, this libritarianism smacks of the argument the NRAists make for the right of every American to bear machine guns, all in the name of liberty and ideology. People die unnecessarily and the society remains less civilized-guns in air, financially poor, have poor healthcare, very similar to the middle east & less developed nations. It can stay that way if that's what the people really want (although recent votes speak volumes to the contrary obviously and thankfully).

 

[mara16jade]

First of all, its right to "bear arms". And there is nothing wrong with being able to own a licensed gun to protect yourself and family. I'm not talking about having a machine gun or AK-47 under your bed. Would it really be fair for no one to have a legal firearm while robbers, rapists, burglars, etc. break in and have them illegally? My baseball bat isn't going to fair well against some dude with a gun.

And second, "like the middle east and other less developed nations"?