United States is the worst country could health care.

[2have4kids]

Yup, middle east. Here in Canada we prefer the middle finger to a baseball bat because we prefer our kids to be safe at school and we enjoy healthcare that isn't just for the privileged or those who qualify for social assistance.

 

[Pirate]

Somebody asked how much insurance costs in the US. I paid over $7000 for coverage for myself and my husband (bi-weekly deductions from my paycheck) and my employer contributed nearly $20,000, so nearly $28,000 to cover two people for one year for medical insurance only (not including vision or dental). What do we get for that? We have a $0 deductible (a deductible is the amount of money that the insured is required to pay before the insurance kicks in) and after that insurance pays 90% of the bill and we pay the remaining 10%. In other words if I was hospitalized and the bill came to $20,000, my insurance would pay $18,000 and I would pay $2000. If I had a deductible of, let's say $2000 for mental math and illustration purposes and the 90/10 coverage that I currently have, my insurance would cover $16,200 and I would be responsible for the remaining $3800. I pay a $25 co-pay for each time I visit the doctor and a $10/30 generic (30/90 day supply), $30/90 for preferred name brand prescriptions, and 30% of the cost of non-preferred drugs. I consider myself blessed because many people don't have the insurance options that I have available to me.

Somebody asked so I thought I would offer the above information. I have no desire to get involved in the debate on the issue. My personal position is that universal healthcare accessible to all Americans would be a wonderful thing.

 

[OpheliaVY]

IMO, this libritarianism smacks of the argument the NRAists make for the right of every American to bear machine guns, all in the name of liberty and ideology. People die unnecessarily and the society remains less civilized-guns in air, financially poor, have poor healthcare, very similar to the middle east & less developed nations. It can stay that way if that's what the people really want (although recent votes speak volumes to the contrary obviously and thankfully).

Seems like you have issues with our entire constitution. I own 2 guns, pay for private healthcare and all is well. I guess if you're use to living life under the thumb of someone else it would seem absurd to live any other way.

 

[mara16jade]

That seems to be more of a personal choice vs a law seeing as gun ownership is allowed in Canada.

The US gets a lot of attention for our right to bear arms because it is written into our constitution. That doesn't mean we all have a gun. Most people don't.

And I'm not going to get into how simple minded that is to be comparing the US to the middle east.

 

[messica]

IMO, this libritarianism smacks of the argument the NRAists make for the right of every American to bear machine guns, all in the name of liberty and ideology. People die unnecessarily and the society remains less civilized-guns in air, financially poor, have poor healthcare, very similar to the middle east & less developed nations. It can stay that way if that's what the people really want (although recent votes speak volumes to the contrary obviously and thankfully).

Holy buckets, your ignorance and arrogance is just SCARY

Do you really think you have the right to declare American's "less civilized" as you make such statements?

I'll quietly and legally keep my firearms over behaving like that towards strangers any day......



Have you seen Obama's approval ratings? Or any actual statistics about how people feel about the ACA?

 

[lhancock90]

I love my NHS. As has been said I can choose all the aspects of my healthcare. My midwife my doctor. I can get same day appointments and I never worry about the cost because as has been said, a much smaller amount is deducted from our tax. Completely manageable. Medical bankruptcy doesn't happen here. Not regarding cost of treatment anyway. For every American in this thread defending your healthcare I feel I have to defend our NHS that none of you want.
We like it. It works for us. People come from other countries desperate to use our healthcare.
I'm not sure I could handle the healthcare system of the US but I do like the sound of New Zealand.
It's interesting to see the different opinions of various countries etc.


As a non American who loved Obama when he first became president, I must admit all my recent reading and news stories are actually putting me right off.

 

[messica]

Yup, middle east. Here in Canada we prefer the middle finger to a baseball bat because we prefer our kids to be safe at school and we enjoy healthcare that isn't just for the privileged or those who qualify for social assistance.

Again, you're attempting to speak for an entire country and that's just wrong.

You, are not Canada. You are a Canadian but that doesn't mean everyone that resides in your country prefers what you do.

 

[misspriss]

I am in the US. I pay $121 per paycheck for heath insurance. That includes dental and vision. That's just over $3,100 per year. I have a $500 deductible, then the insurance pays 80% I pay 20%, up to the out of pocket max, and that is $2,000 max out of pocket per person, or $4,000 for the family. That includes the deductible. I am also secondary insured through my dad until my 26th birthday, thanks to the Affordable Care Act, for health only.

In the hospital, it cost over $113K for mine and my son's stay, including a C-section and 18 days in the NICU. We paid $2,000, the max out of pocket for him, and I paid nothing. I would have $2,000 left after my first insurance, but my secondary insurance covered that.

That's fine and dandy you say, a pretty good deal! And it is. I don't mind my insurance at all.

My sister is working at an hourly job, maybe slightly above minimum wage. She is a student. She had the only insurance they offered, which did not meet the affordable care act standards, so it was cancelled at the end of the year. She paid $44/paycheck. The cheapest obamacare plan she could get cost around $80/paycheck. Granted, it covered a little more, but she could not justify that cost and just decided to eat the fines.

She went to the ER for some severe pain, turns out she had (I believe) a burst ovarian cyst and internal bleeding.

She paid for it at the hospital because her insurance had a maximum benefit (not a maximum out of pocket!) of around $1500 and she had something else she already charged. That got denied further down, she got stuck with the $1500 bill from before, and the $3800 ER bill. So she tried to get the insurance company to pay some of the ER bill since they declined the first thing. They wouldn't. She paid all year, to have basically no coverage, and then she lost it because of obamacare and can't afford even the basic plan.

See how broken the system is? I wouldn't consider myself wealthy, but I have a good job and not one but two private insurances. They work. But if you are not very well off, but not so badly off that you can get state assistance, you are screwed.

I don't know why everyone here in America is so whiny about a single-payer system. Why?!? Wouldn't it make everyone's life so much easier?

Seriously makes me want to pack up and move.

 

[lhancock90]

Maybe the US gun stance could be a different debate? It's very interesting to see the US point of view, people outside of the US really can't grasp it. I'd enjoy hearing different sides.

 

[2have4kids]

And I'm not going to get into how simple minded that is to be comparing the US to the middle east.

But you see that's exactly how it sounds when a person thinks that receiving healthcare equates to being in a 'socialist' state, owned, under someone's thumb, un-libritarian, against the republic bla bla bla, the drama kills me. The same with gun laws over there, ppl justify for robbers but this isn't what the REAL problem is, is it? It's simplistic to hear girls talk the way a few have on this thread. Vital things are quickly ignored and you can't seem to get them to respond logically (like when a person gets cancer and isn't insured-and a handful of really serious issues that others have brought to light). Gosh, the people just want health benefits, I feel badly for the OP having to listen to girls put down getting better healthcare, it's shameful.

Messica, the minute we start shooting it up at school, waving our right to guns around in Canada, you can tell me that I don't speak for most Canadians. Otherwise, you'll just have to live with the fact that majority rules (and therefore we speak about it just like that).

 

[messica]

I love my NHS. As has been said I can choose all the aspects of my healthcare. My midwife my doctor. I can get same day appointments and I never worry about the cost because as has been said, a much smaller amount is deducted from our tax. Completely manageable. Medical bankruptcy doesn't happen here. Not regarding cost of treatment anyway. For every American in this thread defending your healthcare I feel I have to defend our NHS that none of you want.
We like it. It works for us. People come from other countries desperate to use our healthcare.
I'm not sure I could handle the healthcare system of the US but I do like the sound of New Zealand.
It's interesting to see the different opinions of various countries etc.

I'm sorry you feel like you have to defend your own system. I'm sure that wasn't the intent of anyone here so far. I'm not saying a NHS is wrong, only that I personally believe mandatory participation is wrong in this country.

I hope you see, that in my mind anyway, there is a difference. If the government wants to *offer* different access on a wide scale to those who *WANT* to participate in it that seems more than reasonable. It's the *force* of purchase outside of what we're already paying in taxes and under the *threat* of consequence that isn't ok in my book.

As a non American who loved Obama when he first became president, I must admit all my recent reading and news stories are actually putting me right off.

Most American's who loved him when he first became president are in the exact same boat. His plummeted approval ratings are sure proof of that.

You are sure not alone.

 

[OpheliaVY]

Messica and myself have never said anything specifically about the NHS or any other universal healthcare system out there. We've tried to explain time and time again how the affordable care act that's been passed in the US isn't anything like those programs, therefore we're not for the US's rendition of what you call universal healthcare.

2have4kids has turned this into a "my country is better than your country" thread and it's getting ridiculously out of hand. I wouldn't expect anyone out there to sit back and let a foreigner attack their country and that's exactly what she's doing to the US. We get that she doesn't agree and she's made it redundantly clear.

I'm very interested and curious as to how things are done in other countries but I would never bash or ridicule another just because they do things differently.

So in the nicest way possible I think 2have4kids should STFU already.

 

[lhancock90]

I love my NHS. As has been said I can choose all the aspects of my healthcare. My midwife my doctor. I can get same day appointments and I never worry about the cost because as has been said, a much smaller amount is deducted from our tax. Completely manageable. Medical bankruptcy doesn't happen here. Not regarding cost of treatment anyway. For every American in this thread defending your healthcare I feel I have to defend our NHS that none of you want.
We like it. It works for us. People come from other countries desperate to use our healthcare.
I'm not sure I could handle the healthcare system of the US but I do like the sound of New Zealand.
It's interesting to see the different opinions of various countries etc.

I'm sorry you feel like you have to defend your own system. I'm sure that wasn't the intent of anyone here so far. I'm not saying a NHS is wrong, only that I personally believe mandatory participation is wrong in this country.

I hope you see, that in my mind anyway, there is a difference. If the government wants to *offer* different access on a wide scale to those who *WANT* to participate in it that seems more than reasonable. It's the *force* of purchase outside of what we're already paying in taxes and under the *threat* of consequence that isn't ok in my book.

As a non American who loved Obama when he first became president, I must admit all my recent reading and news stories are actually putting me right off.

Most American's who loved him when he first became president are in the exact same boat. His plummeted approval ratings are sure proof of that.

You are sure not alone.

I've never felt that it was mandatory? I guess I know if I wanted to pay for private I could? I can't even begin to understand the US system now so I won't be ignorant and make any silly comments.
I truly do find the differences between our countries and stances on issues fascinating! I have a close friend from America who lived in th UK for 4 years and became a total NHS convert when she first arrived she totally didn't get the hype if you understand.


Yeah I think everyone over here wanted our own Obama but things seem so different now, I think world wide, Obamas falling from grace.

 

[misspriss]

Oh and I own a gun. It makes me feel safe here, because guns are part of our culture. I am trained and licensed. If I went to a country where guns were not legal, and gun crimes were not rampant, I would happily find another way to defend my family.

For the record, I live in and work in one of the most dangerous cities in the US.

But that's a different thread, LOL!

 

[messica]

And I'm not going to get into how simple minded that is to be comparing the US to the middle east.

But you see that's exactly how it sounds when a person thinks that receiving healthcare equates to being in a 'socialist' state, owned, under someone's thumb, un-libritarian, against the republic bla bla bla, the drama kills me. The same with gun laws over there, ppl justify for robbers but this isn't what the REAL problem is, is it? It's simplistic to hear girls talk the way a few have on this thread. Vital things are quickly ignored and you can't seem to get them to respond logically (like when a person gets cancer and isn't insured-and a handful of really serious issues that others have brought to light). Gosh, the people just want health benefits, I feel badly for the OP having to listen to girls put down getting better healthcare, it's shameful.

I'm curious what exactly you consider vital that's been ignored. Everything you've asked has been answered and you've simply chosen to ignore the facts as far as I can read?



As an aside I am a proud gun owner and always will be. My husband works across state lines so four days out of the week it's just me and my two young children. I live out in the country with plenty of wildlife and law enforcement would take a minimum of 20 minutes to get here. I also hunt every season available to help provide for my family. My world is hardly "middle east" like for that lol





The word is *libertarian* and yes, NHS is a socialist program by definition. A definition is not a judgment, but merely a description. No one here has pegged anything is bad or wrong but you.

 

[2have4kids]

Ophelia, I guess something must have hit a chord with you to start swearing at me. So you were explaining, who's attacking who here? It's against this sites rules anyway.

Messica, I'll get right on my spellcheck with the words you picked out. The gun stuff was an analogy, I really don't wish to hear about everybody who proudly owns a gun in America, point missed. It's too bad all heckles are up, we should be able to speak without all this hate.

 

[OpheliaVY]

This thread is no longer productive.

The F word is the same as the middle finger you Canadians like to give. So, ask yourself who started attacking who, first.

However, I am extending the proverbial middle finger to you now. From all of us Americans.

 

[messica]

I've never felt that it was mandatory? I guess I know if I wanted to pay for private I could? I can't even begin to understand the US system now so I won't be ignorant and make any silly comments.
I truly do find the differences between our countries and stances on issues fascinating! I have a close friend from America who lived in th UK for 4 years and became a total NHS convert when she first arrived she totally didn't get the hype if you understand.


Yeah I think everyone over here wanted our own Obama but things seem so different now, I think world wide, Obamas falling from grace.

Your confusion is very typical, and is exactly how I believe Obama managed to get elected a second term lol. His supporters all over the country and on both sides of the political fence are taking a step back and saying now wait a minute....what the.....??

The Affordable Care Act or "Obamacare" is NOT like the NHS in many ways. And where young healthy individuals used to be able to choose to pay out of pocket for their expenses by having no coverage at all, now they're being forced to carry some sort of coverage. The trouble with that is the ACA premiums are FAAAAAR more expensive than what you pay into the NHS. And for really really substandard coverage unless you literally want to carve what easily amounts to a mortgage payment out of your family's income every single month. The poor already had coverage in this country as did the wealthy. The middle class can not remain middle class forking over money they don't have, nor can they afford to pay tax fines if they can't and that's what's happening in this country right now.


I love Sociology, so I understand your fascination with all this stuff completely even if it is messy

 

[messica]

Ophelia, I guess something must have hit a chord with you to start swearing at me. So you were explaining, who's attacking who here? It's against this sites rules anyway.

Messica, I'll get right on my spellcheck with the words you picked out. The gun stuff was an analogy, I really don't wish to hear about everybody who proudly owns a gun in America, point missed. It's too bad all heckles are up, we should be able to speak without all this hate.

Only one I've seen spewing hate here so far is you, which is unfortunate because the rest of the conversation has been incredibly productive

Rest assured, my hackles aren't up at all.

 

[misspriss]

Ophelia, I guess something must have hit a chord with you to start swearing at me. So you were explaining, who's attacking who here? It's against this sites rules anyway.

Messica, I'll get right on my spellcheck with the words you picked out. The gun stuff was an analogy, I really don't wish to hear about everybody who proudly owns a gun in America, point missed. It's too bad all heckles are up, we should be able to speak without all this hate.

I mentioned owning a gun, but I also posted a long drawn out story of my reasons why I think our US system is flawed and I think an NHS-style system would work better here.

No hackles here, no hate