Voting to stay or leave EU. Confused!

[Wannabe Mommy]

I saw a funny meme on t.v. the other day which while obviously intended for humour kinda rings true.

'Voting leave is like when you're out with your mates and everyone starts talking about moving to another club, you find yourself stood outside realising you have no idea where you want to go, can't get back in the club you left and end up in a dodgy kebab shop's

So far I've not heard any comprehensive plan for what we as a country will do next if we leave the EU.

 

[Bekah78]

I saw the same meme on Facebook. Thought it was funny too!

I thought John majors view on Brexit was pretty damning.
There's also been some comments made about the hypocrisy of the Brexit campaigners saying the only way to save the NHS is to leave the EU but the ones leading the campaign have been all for privatising it, making it an insurance based scheme etc. They also can't explain where the money is going to come from to fulfil their promises.

 

[lau86]

I've done my postal vote now and it's a stay vote from me! My mil is the only one I know who voted leave and tbh she couldn't really tell me why

 

[Rhio92]

I'm getting so nervous about this! I wish I was a kid again and no idea what's going on

 

[babycrazy1706]

I'm scared of what crap our government will get us into if we leave. I'm voting stay still xx

 

[babycrazy1706]

I'm getting so nervous about this! I wish I was a kid again and no idea what's going on

Same!!

 

[LoraLoo]

What do you all think of this?

At first I was 50/50

Then I was 55% in, then about 80% in and now...

Now I'm confused as ever 😩

"There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts. Here are some:

You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.

You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.

You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.

You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).

You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.

You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).

The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.

Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.

Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.

You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.

You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect. The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.

You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!

What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect. You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future."

 

[smileyfaces]

Very insightful Lora. I have been teetering between which way to vote but have been more inclined to vote leave. I think that has pushed me further towards the leave vote!

 

[LoraLoo]

The trade thing has totally confused me. That was one of the main reasons I wasleaning towards in, but after reading that- im just not sure now? I don't know what to believe.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

Im still in. Ive seen so much stuff on FB that I wanna move across the globe lol we will still have to follow some rules,pay money and have LESS say out of the EU. Norway and Switzerland think we are mad.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

And I dont want more power to tories lol

 

[Quartz]

Im still in. Ive seen so much stuff on FB that I wanna move across the globe lol we will still have to follow some rules,pay money and have LESS say out of the EU. Norway and Switzerland think we are mad.

I have to say that pushes me more for in. Its seems to be saying you should be voting for the House of Commons to have sovereignty - the House of Commons is not Parliament for a start and it completes forgets the whole devolution thing (Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Ministers) and seems to be saying that its ok we will keep all the good bits but ignore those we dont like.

And that really is the problem I have with leaving - its seems to be we dont like being told what to do by someone else so we want to be able to do it ourselves - but we still want all the benefits of being in Europe. It should not be about picking and choosing what bits you like - should be in or out and leave for me is not saying that.

 

[Quartz]

and the Conservatives slim majority and being blocked has nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with the Liberal House of Lords feeling aggrieved by the coalition and the way the General Election went - something that the EU has no control over at all!

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

We cant take all the good bits of the deal and expect no negative. I like being British but I do think some have a rose tinted view of it. Like people will agree with us and trade as we are the UK!? Sad to say it wont be that easy.
Bet Russia is hoping we leave ;-)

 

[lindseymw]

What do you all think of this?

At first I was 50/50

Then I was 55% in, then about 80% in and now...

Now I'm confused as ever 😩

"There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts. Here are some:

You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.

From what I can gather, we are member of the EEA as a default of being a member of the EU. We would have to renegotiate our terms of being a member of the EEA.

You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.

Correct. NATO has nothing to do with EU. Did anyone think it it?

You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.

Again, correct.

You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).

You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.

You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).

Of course we will be allowed entry to the EU. However, it won't be under the Freedom of Movement. Making it harder to move to another EU country. Holidays, probably not much change in terms entering.

The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.

Most economic experts have anticipated a further recession. So we won't benefit from £bns. I'd be interested to see the source for this claim

Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.

Funding from the EU will stop, but will our own Government match the funding? I don't have high hopes for this. I suspect we will lose a lot of research in our Country to other EU members (my opinion)

Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.

Again, I'm not hopeful the Government will actually match the current funding

You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.

I don't know too much about this so will be researching further

You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect. The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.

Yes we do have border control already. But as it stands EU nationals can enter the Country with their passport legally and we can't stop them. If we leave the EU, we would be able to stop them (unless this is negotiated) so there is a possibility that we will stop the migrants that we need.

You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!

Unless we negotiate a free trade agreement, it will be cheaper for the EU to move factories, manufactoring etc to a country within the EU.

Side note: The EU could have saved the Steel Works in Teesside. They put forward various grant options to our Government. Our Government declined them all and decided to hard close it (meaning it will never be able to come back online) and leaving the area with 5000+ extra unemployed.

What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect. You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future."

I don't understand the whole "unelected" argument. We vote for MEPs who supposedly represent us and our interests. We have Nigel Farage (for some unbeknown reason) who can barely be arsed to turn up

 

[Bekah78]

From the reading I've been doing I'm an in vote. The more I see of the out campaign the more distrusting of them I become. There's a reason why so many investors are moving millions out of the country, and house prices are down.... We're in for a tough few years if out vote wins.

 

[hayz_baby]

What do you all think of this?

At first I was 50/50

Then I was 55% in, then about 80% in and now...

Now I'm confused as ever 😩

"There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts. Here are some:

You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.

From what I can gather, we are member of the EEA as a default of being a member of the EU. We would have to renegotiate our terms of being a member of the EEA.

You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.

Correct. NATO has nothing to do with EU. Did anyone think it it?

You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.

Again, correct.

You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).

You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.

You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).

Of course we will be allowed entry to the EU. However, it won't be under the Freedom of Movement. Making it harder to move to another EU country. Holidays, probably not much change in terms entering.

The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.

Most economic experts have anticipated a further recession. So we won't benefit from £bns. I'd be interested to see the source for this claim

Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.

Funding from the EU will stop, but will our own Government match the funding? I don't have high hopes for this. I suspect we will lose a lot of research in our Country to other EU members (my opinion)

Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.

Again, I'm not hopeful the Government will actually match the current funding

You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.

I don't know too much about this so will be researching further

You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect. The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.

Yes we do have border control already. But as it stands EU nationals can enter the Country with their passport legally and we can't stop them. If we leave the EU, we would be able to stop them (unless this is negotiated) so there is a possibility that we will stop the migrants that we need.

You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!

Unless we negotiate a free trade agreement, it will be cheaper for the EU to move factories, manufactoring etc to a country within the EU.

Side note: The EU could have saved the Steel Works in Teesside. They put forward various grant options to our Government. Our Government declined them all and decided to hard close it (meaning it will never be able to come back online) and leaving the area with 5000+ extra unemployed.

What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect. You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future."

I don't understand the whole "unelected" argument. We vote for MEPs who supposedly represent us and our interests. We have Nigel Farage (for some unbeknown reason) who can barely be arsed to turn up

Agree with a lot of this, this post is made up to look like facts when in fact it is an opinion.

One thing i discovered is that while Switzerland is not part of the eu, it has free trade with the eu,for them to be able to have this open borders with the eu was negotiated.
We could leave the eu, negotiate similar terms and still end up with similar border controls. And have no seat at the table. Fact is we don't know what will happen, no one does, we might be better off we might be worse off. We don't know. We don't know of the government would lower the vat on energy bills to 5% they could.but they might not. They might raise it. They might keep our workers rights, they might decide to increase them to ensure more taxpayer money is coming in to lower to deficit by 2020.
We might save money, we might make money.
And even the leave campaign have said there will be job loses. Companies may find it favourable to move hq out of the U.K. For ease of trade.
Fact is when we wake up on the 24th and for argument sake we have voted to leave we won't be out of the eu that day. It will be like a divorce where we negotiate what we keep and what we loose. Probably about 2 years.

And how many of these leave campaigners actually voted in the last eu election?! I can tell you I did. They're not unelected, we have elected members in the Eu.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

This one made me giggle at the end.

I've seen several people post things about how Switzerland is a model of how we could pull out of the EU. I'm in Switzerland at the moment and thought I would share with you the comments and reality of several Swiss Citizens I have spoken to.

1. In order to be part of EU trade they still have to pay into the European Union, and they still need to be open to free movement of people. So they are - on the two main issues most Brexit people complain about - members of the EU but with no voting rights.

2. In addition, they scorn the trade deals they have made with other countries as (and I quote) "a pain in the arse".

3. Not one of them can fathom why we would try to pull out of the position we are in. They literally laughed in my face.

4. The EU is a negotiated centre of power. Anyone who tells you they will negotiate the UK all of the good bits with none of the bits you don't like is lying to you. If you honestly think that it is possible to get access to a multinational free trade agreement on the scale of the EU while denying freedom of movement or coherent laws on trade goods then you are deluding yourself and the person telling you that is lying to your face.

The UK is not a special little snowflake. Behaving like a cantankerous arsehole is not going to do us any favours, and the misplaced belief that we are an empire nation has done nothing but leave an idiotic pall of stupidity over our foreign relations for the last half a century. Our choice here is grow up or wither into a sad, bitter little island of numpties. And anyone who thinks immigration is a serious problem needs to ask themselves what happens when the ~0,7 Million UK population of Costa Del Sol expats (read immigrants to Spain) comes back looking for housing without wanting a job.

 

[Pearls18]

Anyone watching question time??

WHY THE F**K ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION?!

Am I being thick or are they? NOTHING will change if we leave, Switzerland is unhappy with its own levels of EU migrants it has to accept to trade, we would not be kicking out or stopping EU migrants if we leave (thankfully) so why are they talking about it as if it's even a remote possibility?? It's f**king me off no end.

 

[Quartz]

Did anyone watch Boris Johnson on This Morning? If I was unsure before certainly not now (and I wasnt before).

Also I have looked at the papers supporting Brexit (Sun, Mail, Express) and those who support remain (Guardian, Times, Mirror) and that pretty much told me where I should bevoting as well!