What defines what is right and wrong?

[Midnight_Fairy]

Some people seem to have no sense of human compassion, they kill, steal etc and i was thinking i wonder if they felt answerable to someone it would be different, but the reality is religion isn't part of it at all, its just personal responsibility and thinking of others. (and yes i realise that more people have been killed in the name of religion than anything else)

Ages and ages ago I read something about serial killers and a lack of some protein or something in their brains. It's a bit blurry now, but I think it was saying something like there is a chemical which is responsible for compassionate feelings, women have more than men. People with very low levels are more likely to commit crimes etc. It was interesting especially from a legal point of view, because if that's the case, then is it really anybody's "fault" if they commit a crime? Yikes this a bit heavy for BnB! lol

wooooooooohhhh makes your head hurt heavy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this wont help ease it but here goes:

(oooooooooooo the brain chemical stuff etc ..very interesting!!)

i believe that we choose our lives now and what happens in them because we need these certain experiences to gain awarness and move up in the 'other life' SO people who have killed, who do evil things choose that life to experience and gain awareness....... a simple way to explain what i believe is that there are 7 stages of awareness, all us humans here experiencing life now are on at least stage 2 level of soul awareness, we do not have to keep reincarnating to gain a higher awareness but its the quickest way, anyhow once we reach staged 4 level there is no need to reincarnate unless we wish to and the final stage level 7 ...(7th heaven) is total awarness and complete bliss!!!! there is a lot more to it than that but thats the jist!!!!!

so where the right and wrong comes in to it, i see it as killing someone is wrong, etc but then i think.... thats that persons 'goal' (as such, couldnt think of another word) they needed to do that in order to acheive what they needed to acheive to higher there awareness as a soul

i know i know sounds crazy right?!!! lot more where that came from!!!!!!, i was talking about it to my husband the other night over dinner and he was just nodding wide eye saying 'yeah aha yeah mmmmmmmm'

I love your post Its everything I believe in. x

 

[smelly07]

aaww thanks!!! really good to know someone else who believes what i do! x

 

[Lightworker]

Some people seem to have no sense of human compassion, they kill, steal etc and i was thinking i wonder if they felt answerable to someone it would be different, but the reality is religion isn't part of it at all, its just personal responsibility and thinking of others. (and yes i realise that more people have been killed in the name of religion than anything else)

Ages and ages ago I read something about serial killers and a lack of some protein or something in their brains. It's a bit blurry now, but I think it was saying something like there is a chemical which is responsible for compassionate feelings, women have more than men. People with very low levels are more likely to commit crimes etc. It was interesting especially from a legal point of view, because if that's the case, then is it really anybody's "fault" if they commit a crime? Yikes this a bit heavy for BnB! lol

wooooooooohhhh makes your head hurt heavy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this wont help ease it but here goes:

(oooooooooooo the brain chemical stuff etc ..very interesting!!)

i believe that we choose our lives now and what happens in them because we need these certain experiences to gain awarness and move up in the 'other life' SO people who have killed, who do evil things choose that life to experience and gain awareness....... a simple way to explain what i believe is that there are 7 stages of awareness, all us humans here experiencing life now are on at least stage 2 level of soul awareness, we do not have to keep reincarnating to gain a higher awareness but its the quickest way, anyhow once we reach staged 4 level there is no need to reincarnate unless we wish to and the final stage level 7 ...(7th heaven) is total awarness and complete bliss!!!! there is a lot more to it than that but thats the jist!!!!!

so where the right and wrong comes in to it, i see it as killing someone is wrong, etc but then i think.... thats that persons 'goal' (as such, couldnt think of another word) they needed to do that in order to acheive what they needed to acheive to higher there awareness as a soul

i know i know sounds crazy right?!!! lot more where that came from!!!!!!, i was talking about it to my husband the other night over dinner and he was just nodding wide eye saying 'yeah aha yeah mmmmmmmm'

my DH would so relate to yours..he thinks he picked the nuttiest woman alive..and your thinking is absolutely in line with mine

 

[smelly07]

Tee hee, i will let my hubby know he isnt alone!!!!!!!!!!

great minds!!!! lightworker!!! xxx

 

[Natsku]

Generally, in a very simplistic way, my moral compass is based largely on how I would feel if a certain action was done to me.

Pretty much this.


I certaintly don't think its necessary to be religious to be moral, and I suppose it could be argued that the non-religious are more moral as they do whats right because its right whereas the religious person does whats right because God told them to (not necessarily true of course, thats just the general stereotype)

 

[Sarahkka]

Interesting point, Natsku!
I was raised without religion, and count myself as sort of a scientist with a sense of spirituality in the natural world around me. I grew up in very beautiful natural places and my parents shared their passion for the outdoors with me, as well as sharing some strong political and ethical views on nature that influence my moral compass.
I have the basic guiding human moral of do as you would be done by (which pre-dates any religion, I think), but I often use my ecological understanding to try to expand that to future generations. So not just being kind to those around me, but taking responsibility for my effects on the planet and those that come after me. Trying to act with the understanding that All Things Are Connected.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

Glad to hear likewise minds

 

[xemmax]

Generally, in a very simplistic way, my moral compass is based largely on how I would feel if a certain action was done to me.

Pretty much this.


I certaintly don't think its necessary to be religious to be moral, and I suppose it could be argued that the non-religious are more moral as they do whats right because its right whereas the religious person does whats right because God told them to (not necessarily true of course, thats just the general stereotype)

I agree with this but I don't think this is really what the OP means.

OP's question is if you don't follow any religion, where do you get your sense of 'right' and 'wrong'? And what are your 'rights' or 'wrongs'? Do you have to find them yourself, if they aren't expressed to you by your religion? Not, are you more or less capable of being moral depending on your religious stance, if you see what I mean.

The thing is, whether you are religious or not, our ideas (in Britain, and a lot of the West) as a society of 'right' and 'wrong' are based on Judeo-Christian belief (as our society is). So this raises loads of questions for me - does a non-religious person's morals differ to society's general views of what is right and wrong (which are related to religion in most cases), is it even possible to escape that view, does the fact that there is no belief that there is a 'God' enforcing these moral choices give them less weight, are they based on empathy (like Lightworker said), or do you believe there are objective rights and wrongs in the world?

I don't believe there are objective rights and wrongs - they are culturally dependent.. what is acceptable in one country may be considered 'wrong' in another. However I do think that there are actions which are considered 'wrong' almost universally, still not an objective wrong, but just accepted as wrong across all (though more likely most) cultures.

I really like what Lightworker said and totally agree with it. However I do feel I can attribute a lot of my feelings of what is right and wrong to not only that empathy, but the society that I live in and what that denotes to me is acceptable.

 

[Yammas]

I personally beleive in karma so if you do good then good things in time will happen and if you do bad it will catch up with you although I found smellys post very intriguing and can agree that it does make sense in a way

 

[Eternal]

thanks guys, its actually really interesting and natsku, i do agree with you to a point, i would say some of my actions are governed by that.

xemmax - thank you, that is what i mean! Really interesting point, something surely governs what we think is right, my religion is would wide and therefore my "laws" are fairly universal, although i guess for some people their religions may actually contradict with the countries laws, such as polygamy. What about things that are considered cultural norms for developed countries but not in the developing worlds?

wow, this could get deep.

 

[Natsku]

Hmm yeah, I suppose I got my original idea of whats right and wrong for Christianity as I was raised very religious but my morals changed as I grew up and saw things differently. I guess society shaped my idea of what is right and wrong most of all.

 

[xemmax]

thanks guys, its actually really interesting and natsku, i do agree with you to a point, i would say some of my actions are governed by that.

xemmax - thank you, that is what i mean! Really interesting point, something surely governs what we think is right, my religion is would wide and therefore my "laws" are fairly universal, although i guess for some people their religions may actually contradict with the countries laws, such as polygamy. What about things that are considered cultural norms for developed countries but not in the developing worlds?

wow, this could get deep.

That's just it, I think there are various influences but I'm not sure there can be an actual universal 'right' or 'wrong' as cultures and circumstances can differ so drastically.

But I think everyone's morals have religious influences to some degree, certainly in this society.

I had a lecture on this very recently and it does get so deep... headache central

 

[Yammas]

I think as far as things like polygamy go as long as they are all consenting then its not wrong so that goes to lightworkers point of the effect the action has on others if it doesnt have any negative effects then why not?

 

[xemmax]

I think as far as things like polygamy go as long as they are all consenting then its not wrong so that goes to lightworkers point of the effect the action has on others if it doesnt have any negative effects then why not?

Polygamy is considered wrong in this country, which is why it is illegal. But why is it illegal? Why should law be concerned with it? (I know it's a legal practice but how does entering a marriage with more than one person warrant being an illegal act?) It's illegal because in the Christian faith, it is condemned and laws are closely related with religious morals.

 

[Yammas]

Well I suppose thats because the country was originally run by the King or Queen who were christian hence the legal system being based on christian values. Although I may not have a problem with it the topic of polygamy and having more than one partner is pretty taboo still.

 

[Eternal]

well take female circ, very wrong in most societies but normal in some cultures.

Then take China, child limits, no religion, etc. normal and right for them.

forced marriages etc.

 

[Lightworker]

We should start a thread on polygamy, you have sparked my interest.

 

[Eternal]

We should start a thread on polygamy, you have sparked my interest.

you start it and ill repond lol!

 

[magicvw]

Hmm interesting. I wonder if "right" equates to "socially acceptable". Most of us live in a country whose social norms coincide with our own beliefs - be they Christian based or whatever. To me, capital punishment is wrong, but I was brought up in a country where it is illegal. Perhaps if I'd been brought up in the USA I'd think differently... hard to say.

On top of that, I think that what is socially acceptable is also always changing. When a greater number of people begin to have an altered view point, the norms change. 100 years ago in the UK it was normal to be racist and anti-gay. It was also normal for women not to work, not to get drunk and rip their clothes off in the High Street every Friday night or take drugs. Men did not do housework. Etc etc etc. All of that has changed. Some things have changed in a way I like and others have not - that's my personal preference. Is it right for women to work? To behave like floozies? I guess we all have to pick and choose which social norms we think are "right" or "wrong".

The more I think about this, the less I think we can define right and wrong as concepts!

 

[tallybee]

I agree with what xemmax said about the culturally-based origins of 'rights and wrongs' as well as empathy. The part about non religious people, and whether there are disparities between the morality of them compared to general society is interesting. For instance I am completely non-religious. I also have some strong views on things which totally disagree with the accepted norms and laws we currently have

I also do make a definite distinction between legality and morality.

xx