What do you think about National Service?

[kmbabycrazy]

So a short while ago a private members bill was passed through it's first reading and will have it's second reading in February.

This bill is the National Service Bill 2013-2014.

Though I think the idea behind it may be a sincere one and of good intention I feel like I just don't trust this government with it! There is just so many bad ways it can go. I also don't know if I agree with the basis of it. Sure some young people in that age bracket (18-26) need some guidance and help and learning skills in those areas would be good for them. But I don't think it should be mandatory for everyone, what about those who are in a good job? Have a family? They have to leave that job and family for a year to do something they don't want to do? And to not do it would be a criminal offence...
I just don't know. What about you??

(if anyone wants to read the bill you can find it here https://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2013-2014/0032/cbill_2013-20140032_en_2.htm#l1g2

 

[special_kala]

I think national service could be useful in repeat young offenders. It could give them a purpose and skills. Somewhere to redirect their energy's

 

[MrsT&Ben]

I think in theory it's a good idea but in this day and age it just wouldn't work! Everyone knows what it's like to have there own mind and freedom of choice.

 

[suzib76]

Disaster.

'Exempt individuals are those with severe mental or physical disability'

So people with non severe disabilities have to do it? Who decides what is severe? What about the mental side of things, if someone has a mental disability surely forcing them into national service could make things worse?

 

[sunshine114]

Personally, I think it's a good idea for someone coming out of prison / young offenders as it will give them some purpose and something to do (as part of parole if you like), and also for people claiming job seekers allowance (obviously with time given to attend interviews). I don't think it is a good idea for young people out of school/college/uni who are ready to apply for jobs/apprenticeships in the field in which they have trained for.

 

[Natsku]

It seems pretty good to me.

 

[Pearls18]

Didn't read the bill but I'm against it if the national service is anything to do with the military. (There was a thread about this recently in the debates section).

 

[Natsku]

Didn't read the bill but I'm against it if the national service is anything to do with the military. (There was a thread about this recently in the debates section).

Read the bill - military is the last of the listed options.

 

[Pearls18]

Had a flick through it and not convinced, I think the concept is a bit outdated for this day and age. I think it should be down to personal responsibility to get your own skills for career development and don't think national institutions should be subjected as a form of rehabilitation when they have more important things to be doing.

 

[Natsku]

Its not a form of rehabilitation though - its young people serving their community and learning valuable life skills in the process.
I do wonder how it would be funded though with paying minimum wage.

 

[Pearls18]

Its not a form of rehabilitation though - its young people serving their community and learning valuable life skills in the process.
I do wonder how it would be funded though with paying minimum wage.

The rehabilitation bit was in response to a PP's comment, not the bill.

I like the idea of work experience, it's something I personally took the time to make sure I got myself, others seem to need more of a kick and if there's money in the pot then yeah I think it can be a constructive way of getting young people skills, as you say I'm not sure a) how financially viable it is b) how much benefit it would be for the institutions, because in our sector volunteers are hard work, it can increase the work load as much as they relieve, it has to be beneficial all around.

I don't like the compulsory aspect, as an employer I am going to be more impressed if someone has gone out and sought their own experience rather than being made to do so by the government, and you have to question the quality of the work and the implications for the company/institution if they're dealing with people who don't necessarily want to be there.

 

[Natsku]

Its not a form of rehabilitation though - its young people serving their community and learning valuable life skills in the process.
I do wonder how it would be funded though with paying minimum wage.

The rehabilitation bit was in response to a PP's comment, not the bill.

I like the idea of work experience, it's something I personally took the time to make sure I got myself, others seem to need more of a kick and if there's money in the pot then yeah I think it can be a constructive way of getting young people skills, as you say I'm not sure a) how financially viable it is b) how much benefit it would be for the institutions, because in our sector volunteers are hard work, it can increase the work load as much as they relieve, it has to be beneficial all around.

I don't like the compulsory aspect, as an employer I am going to be more impressed if someone has gone out and sought their own experience rather than being made to do so by the government, and you have to question the quality of the work and the implications for the company/institution if they're dealing with people who don't necessarily want to be there.

Yeah I think the compulsory aspect won't go down too well in the UK. Its alright here (mostly, you get a few that refuse all service and go to prison for 6 months) but its a different history and culture that results in a general feeling of obligation and duty towards the country, never felt like that in the UK.

Maybe making it more of a carrot than a stick - not compulsory but if you do the service benefit from it (like in the bill it said something about increasing the personal tax allowance if you complete the service but I'm really not sure how they can afford that!)

 

[Pearls18]

Its not a form of rehabilitation though - its young people serving their community and learning valuable life skills in the process.
I do wonder how it would be funded though with paying minimum wage.

The rehabilitation bit was in response to a PP's comment, not the bill.

I like the idea of work experience, it's something I personally took the time to make sure I got myself, others seem to need more of a kick and if there's money in the pot then yeah I think it can be a constructive way of getting young people skills, as you say I'm not sure a) how financially viable it is b) how much benefit it would be for the institutions, because in our sector volunteers are hard work, it can increase the work load as much as they relieve, it has to be beneficial all around.

I don't like the compulsory aspect, as an employer I am going to be more impressed if someone has gone out and sought their own experience rather than being made to do so by the government, and you have to question the quality of the work and the implications for the company/institution if they're dealing with people who don't necessarily want to be there.

Yeah I think the compulsory aspect won't go down too well in the UK. Its alright here (mostly, you get a few that refuse all service and go to prison for 6 months) but its a different history and culture that results in a general feeling of obligation and duty towards the country, never felt like that in the UK.

Maybe making it more of a carrot than a stick - not compulsory but if you do the service benefit from it (like in the bill it said something about increasing the personal tax allowance if you complete the service but I'm really not sure how they can afford that!)

Yeah I like that idea, I think it makes it a bit more commendable as well if people have chosen to do it iykwim? I don't know from personal experience but I think there's some funny rules about voluntary work and JSA, in my sector it's quite normal to need to volunteer for 3 months at a time but I don't think JSA deems this as a good enough reason to not sign on and look for jobs etc because it isn't work experience they have organised, so I think more flexibility should be given to let people volunteer on JSA because I think voluntary work is priceless for looking for work and much more useful than continually filling job applications.

 

[Natsku]

Its not a form of rehabilitation though - its young people serving their community and learning valuable life skills in the process.
I do wonder how it would be funded though with paying minimum wage.

The rehabilitation bit was in response to a PP's comment, not the bill.

I like the idea of work experience, it's something I personally took the time to make sure I got myself, others seem to need more of a kick and if there's money in the pot then yeah I think it can be a constructive way of getting young people skills, as you say I'm not sure a) how financially viable it is b) how much benefit it would be for the institutions, because in our sector volunteers are hard work, it can increase the work load as much as they relieve, it has to be beneficial all around.

I don't like the compulsory aspect, as an employer I am going to be more impressed if someone has gone out and sought their own experience rather than being made to do so by the government, and you have to question the quality of the work and the implications for the company/institution if they're dealing with people who don't necessarily want to be there.

Yeah I think the compulsory aspect won't go down too well in the UK. Its alright here (mostly, you get a few that refuse all service and go to prison for 6 months) but its a different history and culture that results in a general feeling of obligation and duty towards the country, never felt like that in the UK.

Maybe making it more of a carrot than a stick - not compulsory but if you do the service benefit from it (like in the bill it said something about increasing the personal tax allowance if you complete the service but I'm really not sure how they can afford that!)

Yeah I like that idea, I think it makes it a bit more commendable as well if people have chosen to do it iykwim? I don't know from personal experience but I think there's some funny rules about voluntary work and JSA, in my sector it's quite normal to need to volunteer for 3 months at a time but I don't think JSA deems this as a good enough reason to not sign on and look for jobs etc because it isn't work experience they have organised, so I think more flexibility should be given to let people volunteer on JSA because I think voluntary work is priceless for looking for work and much more useful than continually filling job applications.

Yeah it would certainly look good on the CV I reckon.

Thats a bit bad that they have such funny rules about volunteering, it really is a good way to get some work experience while you're jobhunting.

 

[kmbabycrazy]

See I know it works in other countries but they tend to be peaceful contries bot involved in wars. I'm scared this will turn into conscription as it can be easily manipulated through amendments to work in their favour.

I also don't think the compulsory aspect will work in this day an age and I agree that people who don't want to be there won't do any good in these roles really and could be more of a hindrance than a benefit to the organisations they are placed in.

 

[dgirllamius]

We had it here until 2011.I don't know much about it because my OH never did it (only men had to and he didn't pass the fitness test). You had a choice between a military service or something else (not sure what) and you did it for 9 months. I'm not sure if was effective at all (probably not seeing as it was scrapped).

People who are unemployed and seeking employment have to do things to get 100% of their money. If you don't do the things you agreed then you get your money cut by 30% and you get vouchers instead so it's an incentive to do what you're meant to and not play the system.

Perhaps something like that would be more fitting. Looks good on your CV and such.

 

[MissyMojo]

I'm confused. so no one is exempt except disabled or those with mental health issues

what if. for example.
when (if) it comes into force you're a 25yr old soldier with a wife 27 and 2 small children..... are you supposed to get out the army do a yrs service away from your wife and small children.... who would during this time not be entitled to live in their qtrs so they would end up without a home and an income... or would they count the fact that he's already serving his country??

what if you're already gainfully employed and have a mortgage/rent/children....

trainee doctors... they spend. a great many years going through university then as a junior Dr etc. are they going to be expected to stop their training/graduate course/junior Dr years to do national service


I can't see it working at all

I think it should be perhaps a 1 yr residential course offered to say 18-21 years as an optional thing to build their skills perhaps spending a couple of months at a time volunteering and learning from different industries /sectors as well as spending time on learning thingslike mmanaging budgets. cooking. managing household bills.
advice/time spent looking at housing market etc so that the young people can make informed decisions on housing. manage their budgets. truly work out where they want to work etc

 

[MissyMojo]

double post

 

[Natsku]

I'm confused. so no one is exempt except disabled or those with mental health issues

what if. for example.
when (if) it comes into force you're a 25yr old soldier with a wife 27 and 2 small children..... are you supposed to get out the army do a yrs service away from your wife and small children.... who would during this time not be entitled to live in their qtrs so they would end up without a home and an income... or would they count the fact that he's already serving his country??

what if you're already gainfully employed and have a mortgage/rent/children....

trainee doctors... they spend. a great many years going through university then as a junior Dr etc. are they going to be expected to stop their training/graduate course/junior Dr years to do national service


I can't see it working at all

I think it should be perhaps a 1 yr residential course offered to say 18-21 years as an optional thing to build their skills perhaps spending a couple of months at a time volunteering and learning from different industries /sectors as well as spending time on learning thingslike mmanaging budgets. cooking. managing household bills.
advice/time spent looking at housing market etc so that the young people can make informed decisions on housing. manage their budgets. truly work out where they want to work etc

Well I think most people would do it after finishing school and before going to Uni/work so like a gap year so most people wouldn't fall into any of those scenarios. If they choose to delay it then they would be choosing to take the risk of being in one of those scenarios when they do do it. Over here National Service can be delayed until 29 (I think) but the majority do it straight after finishing school (at least thats what it looks like as I lived by an army base and none of the conscripts looked older than 20ish, same with the ones I see on the trains)

 

[MissyMojo]

but what about when (if)it comes in and you're already working/settled down....