What if there was no state or goverment help

[henny]

I read somewhere that there are more children in child poverty from both parents working, then single mothers. I think it stems from the benefits people get.
My friends husband lost his job and cause they have a mortgage, they were not able to get anything, not even a emergency loan to cover bills and they have 2 children. Luckily he was able to find work but a mutual friend is a single mother and she told her to pretend to be a single mother as she gets most things paid for- her words not mine, couldn't believe it!!!!!
I'm sure it's not always like that.

 

[Thurinius]

I think unplanned is the wrong word. The people playing the system plan the pregnancy to get the house etc.
But then who can blame them with the cost of renting etc.
I've rented the same house for 6 years, always paid the rent on time, been a good tenant. I'd only been out of hospital after an emergency c-section and a baby in neo-natal for one week when our landlord told us he wanted us out before my LO could crawl. We are lucky in that we are OK financially. But if we weren't. Well I'd be more likely to qualify for social housing if I split up with my husband. I'd be more likely to qualify if I didn't have a job.

 

[AP]

I thank God for government aid often. With children with special needs there are a lot of REALLY expensive things I would not be able to give my children without it like DD's MRI for her seizures or her formula which runs about $700 a month.

I have to say I really appreciate the help we get with DD1 in regards to disability allowance etc

(but it wouldnt have changed anything if we didnt get it, i'd still have stayed home and I still would have had DD2, we'd just have to tighten our belts a fair bit.)

 

[SophiasMummy]

Well my LO was unplanned and we didnt use protection, but I was told I couldnt get pregnant by my consultants and other drs so there is anouther type of unplanned pregnancy! I have to live on benifits now until my LO starts nursery in a couple years as im a single parent and there is no way I can work and look after my LO at the moment, before I got pregnant I worked over 60 hours a week on a horse yard but as soon as I found out I was pregnant had to give it up for health and safety now there is no way I could go back to a job with that many hours again for years, I hate that I rely on benifits but I have no choice if I couldnt get this financial help me and my child would have nothing as I do everything myself I dont even have family available to look after my LO unless its an absolute emergency

 

[MrsRabbit]

I thank God for government aid often. With children with special needs there are a lot of REALLY expensive things I would not be able to give my children without it like DD's MRI for her seizures or her formula which runs about $700 a month.

I have to say I really appreciate the help we get with DD1 in regards to disability allowance etc

(but it wouldnt have changed anything if we didnt get it, i'd still have stayed home and I still would have had DD2, we'd just have to tighten our belts a fair bit.)

I honestly do not know how we would have covered the formula and medications that would have been more than DH makes in a month. DD was unplanned - we were using protection and yeah.

 

[AP]

I think in terms of benefits and help due to disabilities etc is a different thing altogether, those circumstances are often out of our control

 

[vaniilla]

I don't think it would make much difference as its a small percent of women that plan to get pregnant for benefits, the bigger picture is that disadvantaged areas tend to have the highest rates of pregnancies were the parents end up needing benefits, this is more of a social situation in some areas, a friend of mine that I used to go to college with fell pregnant at 16 and within a year at least 8 of her friends fell pregnant, I think more needs to be done to educate people on safe sex.

 

[MissBroody]

At the moment, with me being at university, we do rely on our child benefit to cover the cost of nappies etc. But when/if we have another baby it'll be when I'm in work and am able to take maternity leave, save up/afford him or her. What gets my goat is people wherein neither person works and they decide and TRY for baby (after baby after baby) and EXPECT everyone else to pay for it just because they know they will... Some think they have some right to have as many kids as they want but not actually pay for them, and they live rent/bill free and get money for each child they have yet I'd love a big family but will wait until I can afford it (which will be a longer wait than these people have as we private rent and have no help with that). I think unplanned pregnancies are just that, its those who say ''fancy another baby! will do just that! Hopefully get a bigger house and more money with it ''
xx

 

[AP]

^ thats exactly my issue, id love a big family but on hubbys wage it doesnt look possible, but others living on benefits and TTC is just plain wrong
I try to resolve by saying "at least the kids will grow up understanding morals" but it doesn't change the unfairness Of it all

 

[Thurinius]

I don't think it would make much difference as its a small percent of women that plan to get pregnant for benefits, the bigger picture is that disadvantaged areas tend to have the highest rates of pregnancies were the parents end up needing benefits, this is more of a social situation in some areas, a friend of mine that I used to go to college with fell pregnant at 16 and within a year at least 8 of her friends fell pregnant, I think more needs to be done to educate people on safe sex.

But people are educated on safe sex. It is taught in schools. It is everywhere in the NHS. The message is out there. Shouldn't the message be to wait until your ready for sex - lots of teenagers are too embarrassed to ask about protection when having sex which would suggest in no way are they ready for it.

 

[MissBroody]

^ It is unfair, so unfair would have loved to be TTC myself by now but I wouldn't expect someone else to fork out for my baby - really gets me, those who live solely on benefits and actively TTC - don't know WHO they think should be paying for THEIR children?! I just keep reminding myself that LO will probably enjoy a better life, we will be able to do things with him, take him places, save up for a good education etc and give all our children the best - those who live hand to mouth on benefits may have a huge family but can't afford to do anything with them ? and sadly it'll probably end up a viscious cycle and they will grow up thinking it's ok to not work and have a shedload of kids.
xx

 

[MrsRabbit]

I'd love to have another baby or two but we can't afford it.

 

[Cookie1979]

I think it would yes, some young girls get pregnant so they can get their own place, they have no intention of ever working, and see it as the easy road. If they knew that if they got pregnant then they would have to pay their own way, then I think more would use protection. Does make me cross, we have to work hard to pay for our house and to look after our baby, while some don't work and blatantly get more money than they need just to get by. My dads old next door neighbours are on the dole, they have 2 children, one of which goes to a special school 8 miles away (nothing actually wrong with the child as far as I can see) and gets a taxi every day, as they have a car and they are both at home, I dont see them paying for a taxi everyday so thats obviously paid for them. They have a big car, a motorbike, huge tv and the boxes and boxes that were outside their house after christmas...my god those children were spoilt. Definitely pays for some people to be on the dole, these people got a 3 bedroom house (done up before they moved in) on a road where houses cost over £250,000!!! Alright for some!!!

 

[vaniilla]

^ It is unfair, so unfair would have loved to be TTC myself by now but I wouldn't expect someone else to fork out for my baby - really gets me, those who live solely on benefits and actively TTC - don't know WHO they think should be paying for THEIR children?! I just keep reminding myself that LO will probably enjoy a better life, we will be able to do things with him, take him places, save up for a good education etc and give all our children the best - those who live hand to mouth on benefits may have a huge family but can't afford to do anything with them ? and sadly it'll probably end up a viscious cycle and they will grow up thinking it's ok to not work and have a shedload of kids.
xx

I know the feeling, we were originally hoping to start ttc this june but we know thats not going to happen, I start uni this year and will be finished with studies in 5/6 years, I feel sad about the age gap they'll have but in the long run its for the best as school fees go up every year and I want to be able to give them everything, I wrote a thread a while ago about someone I used to go to school with, her and her partner were planning on quitting work to start ttc and their reasoning being spending time with lo and to rely on benefits, I saw a few people with the same idea while we were ttc, I guess its something I'll never understand

 

[Foogirl]

I’m not quite sure it'd make much difference really..I mean people aren't thinking about how they are going to fund a child when they are having sex are they.

But sex rarely happens as a spur of the moment, out of the blue act does it. Anyone thinking about having sex, especially as a teenager is likely to have given it some thought beforehand. They are usually aware it is about to happen in a relationship and have thought about whether they want to or not. At the moment there isn't a lot stopping them as becoming pregnant is no big deal. It was the one thing that stopped me having sex too young. Making it more difficult to look after a child might well be the thing that stops them. That and making them aware of just how hard it is. At the moment we have teen mums in the news and on TV making out like it's a walk in the park because of all the money they get, and the house etc.

I do get what folk are saying about more children being in poverty etc, but I think there comes a time as a society when you say enough is enough. Do we continue to support those who pop out child after child even though they can't afford it, or do we take a 'your child, your problem' stance?

And tough as it may be for young teenagers in the short term, maybe returning to the attitude of "if you are old enough to have sex, you are old enough to live with the consequences." is what we need to do. When these children, and their peers realise they have to sort out their own mess, maybe they will stop playing at grown ups too early.

 

[nov_mum]

I think that while it might be a factor in reducing some pregnancies and births it wouldn't prevent truly unplanned pregnancies. It might prevent some people choosing it as a career path and a leg out of home and in to cheap housing but I think it not having assistance for single parents and low income families would hurt more families than prevent life long sponges. Sponges will always sponge and work the system for the own ends. They are a minority. We have never qualified for any assistance apart from paid maternity leave which all NZ'ers are entitled to access. While career beneficiaries annoy me, I would rather see benefits there for the people left high and dry and raising a family on a benefit is no picnic.

 

[Nibblenic]

I think it would stop very young people who had no or little chance of finding work havin children.
I think it woul stpo many people having more children. Personally in our circumstances right now we could not afford another child. However if we were both not working and living in rented housing having a more children would really be an option.
I think is greatly unfair that I work 2 days a week for less income than I would get as a single parent on benifits. I have oftern said we are 'stupid enough to work'.
I also think that after the seond (possibly 3rd) all benifits should be stopped inc CB if you want to have a huge family you should be paying for it!

I cannot afford a 4/5 bedroomed house. I cannot aford more than 2/3 children. No one in the last 3 generations of my family have been able to either even though they have ALL worked in professional jobs. So I have no idea why these things and opertunite are given to people by the state!

I think we have created a cuture or unreasonable expectations. I have heard that you can get a crisis loan to get a TV if yours breaks and it is seen as an essential? I mean WTF! My dads partner works for a housing association and he regularly sees people who hve 5+ children where neither have worked a day in thier live who come with huge expectations of money they feel they have a 'right' to. DEmanding all sorts from massive houses to living in 'nice' areas houses with gardens all sorts. Stuff I could never imagine even manageing to WORK for let alone get given free or at a nominal payment.

There is a mother at my godchilds school who hs 13 children, yes he husband works all hours as a taxi driver. But she will get more than my wage +£300 in CB.
My Ohs friend at work has just quit as he is 25% which is £300 a month BETTER off on benifits! He works FT in a sepicalised role for the BBC/siemens on a abover average wage. You know contrbuting to the economy. But he left as £300 a mont and getting to spend everydaywithhis disabled son and new born is a much more attractive offer. However much I dnt blame him I think its wrong that the system makes people live worse for working

Oooh that got a bit ranty for N+D it is something I feel very strongly about. Especially since I am about to do similar to OHs friend at work. As I am disabled and working pt but with the change in ctc etc I am no longer better off working

 

[special_kala]

I think it would stop very young people who had no or little chance of finding work havin children.
I think it woul stpo many people having more children. Personally in our circumstances right now we could not afford another child. However if we were both not working and living in rented housing having a more children would really be an option.
I think is greatly unfair that I work 2 days a week for less income than I would get as a single parent on benifits. I have oftern said we are 'stupid enough to work'.
I also think that after the seond (possibly 3rd) all benifits should be stopped inc CB if you want to have a huge family you should be paying for it!

I cannot afford a 4/5 bedroomed house. I cannot aford more than 2/3 children. No one in the last 3 generations of my family have been able to either even though they have ALL worked in professional jobs. So I have no idea why these things and opertunite are given to people by the state!

I think we have created a cuture or unreasonable expectations. I have heard that you can get a crisis loan to get a TV if yours breaks and it is seen as an essential? I mean WTF! My dads partner works for a housing association and he regularly sees people who hve 5+ children where neither have worked a day in thier live who come with huge expectations of money they feel they have a 'right' to. DEmanding all sorts from massive houses to living in 'nice' areas houses with gardens all sorts. Stuff I could never imagine even manageing to WORK for let alone get given free or at a nominal payment.

There is a mother at my godchilds school who hs 13 children, yes he husband works all hours as a taxi driver. But she will get more than my wage +£300 in CB.
My Ohs friend at work has just quit as he is 25% which is £300 a month BETTER off on benifits! He works FT in a sepicalised role for the BBC/siemens on a abover average wage. You know contrbuting to the economy. But he left as £300 a mont and getting to spend everydaywithhis disabled son and new born is a much more attractive offer. However much I dnt blame him I think its wrong that the system makes people live worse for working

Oooh that got a bit ranty for N+D it is something I feel very strongly about. Especially since I am about to do similar to OHs friend at work. As I am disabled and working pt but with the change in ctc etc I am no longer better off working

Definitely agree. I find it odd when people TTC a 2nd/3rd baby whilst in a 1 bedroom council property and then say "oh well the council will have to re house us soon"

If you have a morgtage and have another child you dont get to just increase your house size you actually have to be able to afford it

 

[24/7]

I think it would stop very young people who had no or little chance of finding work havin children.
I think it woul stpo many people having more children. Personally in our circumstances right now we could not afford another child. However if we were both not working and living in rented housing having a more children would really be an option.
I think is greatly unfair that I work 2 days a week for less income than I would get as a single parent on benifits. I have oftern said we are 'stupid enough to work'.
I also think that after the seond (possibly 3rd) all benifits should be stopped inc CB if you want to have a huge family you should be paying for it!

I cannot afford a 4/5 bedroomed house. I cannot aford more than 2/3 children. No one in the last 3 generations of my family have been able to either even though they have ALL worked in professional jobs. So I have no idea why these things and opertunite are given to people by the state!

I think we have created a cuture or unreasonable expectations. I have heard that you can get a crisis loan to get a TV if yours breaks and it is seen as an essential? I mean WTF! My dads partner works for a housing association and he regularly sees people who hve 5+ children where neither have worked a day in thier live who come with huge expectations of money they feel they have a 'right' to. DEmanding all sorts from massive houses to living in 'nice' areas houses with gardens all sorts. Stuff I could never imagine even manageing to WORK for let alone get given free or at a nominal payment.

There is a mother at my godchilds school who hs 13 children, yes he husband works all hours as a taxi driver. But she will get more than my wage +£300 in CB.
My Ohs friend at work has just quit as he is 25% which is £300 a month BETTER off on benifits! He works FT in a sepicalised role for the BBC/siemens on a abover average wage. You know contrbuting to the economy. But he left as £300 a mont and getting to spend everydaywithhis disabled son and new born is a much more attractive offer. However much I dnt blame him I think its wrong that the system makes people live worse for working

Oooh that got a bit ranty for N+D it is something I feel very strongly about. Especially since I am about to do similar to OHs friend at work. As I am disabled and working pt but with the change in ctc etc I am no longer better off working

I think this post sums things up perfectly really.

I don't resent anyone who NEEDS benefits having them, but it disgusts me to hear of people having large families and living off benefits.

People need to realise having a child is NOT their right, and that if you decide to have one then it is your responsibility and nobody elses to supoort them financially.

Benefits are there to help those in need, and so they should be, but not as a lifestyle choice to those who want children and feel they can have them at the expense of others.

 

[MrsRabbit]

I watched a documentary on a low income city here in the US - this woman has 6 kids, her first at 17 with several men. Daddy of #6 is in prison. She says things just never changed yet she kept choosing to have sex, have babies, babies she cannot support without help and there is never enough aid. Then the power and water got shut off and in the next breath we learn they bought a $2000 TV with their tax refund. Really? If she'd put it in the bank or paid ahead on the power she'd not have lost power for her children. Shit happens but people have to help themselves, plan ahead, not think they'll keep getting breaks. Then she rigged the power box and stole power. DH said she could be charged for it and go to jail but they didn't but really.

I cannot see not planning AT ALL for my future or for my kids' futures. I don't have college savings but really - a TV is more important than power. It's the broke mentality.