Why do people say they dont want vaginal examinations?

[Tegans Mama]

Believe me hun, when its time to start pushing, you'll know!!! No one will need to tell you, your body starts to do it on its own and you have no choice but to join in.

This didn't happen for me. I think i was fully dilated for a while before i was told "Common Andrea - push this baby out"

I didnt have any drugs or even G&A during my labour. I know a couple of other girls who also didn't get that over whelming urge to push. Im hoping i'll experience that this time round.

From what I've read, it's perfectly normal not to feel an urge to push right away. I know a woman who was fully dilated for over 90 minutes before she felt anything. She had a good MW, a supportive doula, and they just waited. Because really, there's no need to rush it, is there? Her body was quite obviously not ready to birth the baby yet. The only people who would've rushed it out were the MW or doctor.

Plus, remember that not everyone's body dilates to 10cm. Some dilate to 9. Some dilate to 12. There's no set rule - just a bunch of jargon some doctors made up that is practically irrelevant because seriously... HOW do you measure 10cm with one hand. It's all guesswork.

My personal experience is that VE's are very uncomfortable and not worth the pain/infection risk. I am one of the unfortunate people who contracted an infection through multiple VE's. An infection that is believed to have then travelled into my daughters open spinal defect and left her with a severely life threatening infection of her own to intend with which took six weeks of intravenous antibiotics to cure.

I was checked every hour, on the hour, sat on a bed being monitored (because my baby had a severe brain disorder and the Drs didn't know how she would react to labour). I progressed VERY slowly, because frankly I was scared shitless. My waters broke by themselves but nothing happened.. I was prodded and poked and it was frankly horrific. VE's are IMO completely useless when determining a womans' progress in labour. It only tells you how far she is NOW, right this second, and even then it's an estimate, and that estimate is frankly useless.

 

[chuck]

I didnt get the urge to push for quite a while once I was fully dilated.

But MW reckons the cheeky monkey had turned posterior for a while.

 

[Kess]

Believe me hun, when its time to start pushing, you'll know!!! No one will need to tell you, your body starts to do it on its own and you have no choice but to join in.

This didn't happen for me. I think i was fully dilated for a while before i was told "Common Andrea - push this baby out"

I didnt have any drugs or even G&A during my labour. I know a couple of other girls who also didn't get that over whelming urge to push. Im hoping i'll experience that this time round.

And I didn't push until his head was nudging my perineum - thankfully, since his head took quite a bit of effort to get out and if I'd pushed him down the birth canal too I might have run out of energy. Even without pushing he still descended: there's often no need to "push this baby out", the contractions do their job and gravity helps if you're in a good position.

 

[madasa]

Even if you do have a VE, you can always ask the MW not to tell you the number.... cos tat is all it is! A number, and not a very useful one! I think there are other things to be gained from a VE, but as a routine procedure, yeah, pretty useless

I had one VE, partly to see if I was far enough along to get in the pool without the risk of things slowing down, and partly because things seemed to be very intense for how little time I'd been in labour, and my MW didn't tell me a number, she just said something along the lines of, "Gosh that's a lot of progress! You can get in the pool if you want." I think I was 5cm ish, I did ask a week or so afterwards but can't remember if it was 5 or 6cm. I suspect even if I'd been 2cm MW would have said something positive though, that's one of the great things about her. I did find the actual process of having the VE disruptive to my being "in the zone" during labour - MW tried to do the VE with me on my hands and knees but it didn't work so I had to flip onto my back.

I think the important thing about VEs is that they need to be a woman's informed choice. They are useless for a lot of women, but as a couple of PP have said they can be useful for some women. People need to know the advantages and disadvantages of them and make a decision after knowing all the facts.

Your midwofe sounds wonderful! Mine was similar, "wow, your cervix has been really busy! those ctx you have been feeling today, they've really been doing their job!" THAT is what you need to hear in labour, IMO. I wish all MWs were like this!

Re: getting in too early - there IS a risk it could slow you down. Odd that many MWs suggest a BATH in early labour, no? Way I see it, if I get in a ctx slow down.... I will.... get out again! Course, this is MWs time and NHS money we're talking about, here

I agree 100% about informed choice. That is key.

 

[madasa]

Believe me hun, when its time to start pushing, you'll know!!! No one will need to tell you, your body starts to do it on its own and you have no choice but to join in.

This didn't happen for me. I think i was fully dilated for a while before i was told "Common Andrea - push this baby out"

I didnt have any drugs or even G&A during my labour. I know a couple of other girls who also didn't get that over whelming urge to push. Im hoping i'll experience that this time round.

Weirdly, I also did not feel that last time. I was only vageuly aware that anyone was in the room with me, but then all of a sudden I felt this overwhelming urge.... No, it wasn't even an urge. My body was just pushing, I had no choice in the matter. My wise, wise midwives had popped into the next room for a cup of tea. I must have been aware of their presence and exit on SOME level! The intensity took me back a bit, and I gasped out "midwife!" I just had this feeling that my baby was coming NOW!!! As soon as they came back, it eased off.... I gently breathed her out a short time later (hardly pushed at all, my uterus did most of the work!) but looking back I wish I'd just let it happen when they left the room.

I've heard of MANY MWs employing this tactic.... Leave the room, or get the mum to go to the toilet. Just being in the privacy of the cubicle is enough to bring on that urge for some ladies. Others feel it when they actually sit on the loo, maybe b/c of a lifetime of conditioning to "open" and "let go" when they sit on the toilet. I'm not sure why some women just don't feel this urge.... I suspect it may be to do with environment, how well they trust their attendants and perhaps also sometimes it is just the "rest and be thankful" stage. (a gap between full dilation and pushing that is normal, and allows mum to rest so she has the energy needed for the next phase)

 

[Nikki_d72]

I'm sure I read a comment from Dr Michael Odent along the lines of the spontaneous pushing reflex only really happening in an undisturbed birth situation, so it may be why some women don't get it if they are feeling observed or are not allowed by their attendants to "get in the zone" and may be why it comes on in the loo etc. There's a proper name for it but I can't remember, sorry.

EDA: Saying that, it happened to me this time even when I was willing it not to and was surrounded by 2 hospital MW's and a registrar. My body took over and pushed my babies out, although it wouldn't have taken as much as they were still so tiny, admittedly. It was a horrible feeling to have no control although it would be a great one in a normal birthing situation, it's a hideous paradox for me. BUT when I think about it I never called for help until I was pretty much at that stage as I was in denial that I was in labour at all so I did labour alone and undisturbed, really. I tried every trick in the book that I'd learned about undisturbed labour and reversed it to stop it - I kept the lights on bright, kept myself full of fear (not hard, that), lay on my back to keep pressure off my cervix etc etc. I was afraid every night as I knew that most of us labour at night. Maybe that is what delayed labour for those 6 days, who knows. The stupid registrar discounted being upright and moving around to apply pressure on the cervix to help dilation as "wives tales, midwives tales", I felt like clocking her and it was her that was on call the night I went into labour too, oh joy.

 

[lesbianlove]

i personally found VE agony and unneeded to be fair i only ever had the one when i was young and in labour with my first and didnt even know i could refuse it! with my second they said i was in early labour didnt do a ve and he was born half an hour later, its the VE after the birth that im deffo refusing, the last thing i want is someone rooting there hand up there straight after uv delivered, and i only ever had a very small graze which didnt even need anything done to it, with my second i refused and refused and the mw went ahead and done it, i felt completly violated and jumped out ma skin when she just done it, with this its on my notes on homebirth no ve at any point, and if i feel iv got a graze after the birth then its not like il need stitches which u can also refuse, i actualy wish midwives were just there to observe and if anything went wrong they would intervene

 

[Pielette]

It's part of my birth plan that I don't want to be poked and prodded constantly. In fact, I'd like one check to see if I can get in my pool and that's it. We don't need to discuss numbers.
My hypnobirthing practitioner has also told me about the spontaneous pushing reflex - our bodies will do it themselves when they are ready. And that's the point, midwives and doctors saying 'you're only Xcm dilated' or 'you're not making much progress'; it puts you on edge, it slows things down and a lot of the time they are far too eager to make a birthing mother get on with it quicker than she should do. Then you're uncomfortable, baby gets distressed... It's a vicious cycle, whereas if they just hang back and support you, YOU will know when to push - or rather, your body will, cos you'll have no control over it!
My practitioner gave me a a DVD of a friend's birth she attended and the midwives were brilliant. No checking, just making sure mum was ok, checking the baby's heartbeat and just generally creating a wonderful relaxed atmosphere. That is much better for both us and our babies!

 

[Blah11]

i personally found VE agony and unneeded to be fair i only ever had the one when i was young and in labour with my first and didnt even know i could refuse it! with my second they said i was in early labour didnt do a ve and he was born half an hour later, its the VE after the birth that im deffo refusing, the last thing i want is someone rooting there hand up there straight after uv delivered, and i only ever had a very small graze which didnt even need anything done to it, with my second i refused and refused and the mw went ahead and done it, i felt completly violated and jumped out ma skin when she just done it, with this its on my notes on homebirth no ve at any point, and if i feel iv got a graze after the birth then its not like il need stitches which u can also refuse, i actualy wish midwives were just there to observe and if anything went wrong they would intervene

I have no recollection of getting one after birth Either she had a quick look only and saw there was no damage or I was way too into my new baby to notice! Bizarre!

 

[chuck]

I remember having my foof looked at after the birth as 2 of them were looking wit a big ol red torch!

 

[youngwife20]

I remember as clear as day the first VE with my first, I nearly shot through the roof, the midwife was evil. I was young and hadn't got the guts to say no, i thought it was part of the course. with my 2nd i was a little wiser, had one when i first got in and refused any more, i had no pain meds and a wonderful labour. needless to say this time round i am hoping for the same lol

may i ask how old you were the first time? and so you think not having anymore helped your labour process? thanks for answering

 

[youngwife20]

I posted a positive For me, knowing where I was in my labour spurred me on to keep going, I knew I was going in the right direction and it kind of gave me focus iykwim?

However that's obvs not the case for everyone and I was lucky that I laboured quickly as it then put me on the '1cm per hour' timer... I was 5cms so I knew I only had 5 hours really before they would start trying to get me in to hospital. Fortunately I got from 5cms to her being born in 45 mins so was very lucky. I think the negatives well outweight the positives of VEs tbh

xx

Thanks for answering xx

 

[youngwife20]

Believe me hun, when its time to start pushing, you'll know!!! No one will need to tell you, your body starts to do it on its own and you have no choice but to join in.

This didn't happen for me. I think i was fully dilated for a while before i was told "Common Andrea - push this baby out"

I didnt have any drugs or even G&A during my labour. I know a couple of other girls who also didn't get that over whelming urge to push. Im hoping i'll experience that this time round.

From what I've read, it's perfectly normal not to feel an urge to push right away. I know a woman who was fully dilated for over 90 minutes before she felt anything. She had a good MW, a supportive doula, and they just waited. Because really, there's no need to rush it, is there? Her body was quite obviously not ready to birth the baby yet. The only people who would've rushed it out were the MW or doctor.

Plus, remember that not everyone's body dilates to 10cm. Some dilate to 9. Some dilate to 12. There's no set rule - just a bunch of jargon some doctors made up that is practically irrelevant because seriously... HOW do you measure 10cm with one hand. It's all guesswork.

My personal experience is that VE's are very uncomfortable and not worth the pain/infection risk. I am one of the unfortunate people who contracted an infection through multiple VE's. An infection that is believed to have then travelled into my daughters open spinal defect and left her with a severely life threatening infection of her own to intend with which took six weeks of intravenous antibiotics to cure.

I was checked every hour, on the hour, sat on a bed being monitored (because my baby had a severe brain disorder and the Drs didn't know how she would react to labour). I progressed VERY slowly, because frankly I was scared shitless. My waters broke by themselves but nothing happened.. I was prodded and poked and it was frankly horrific. VE's are IMO completely useless when determining a womans' progress in labour. It only tells you how far she is NOW, right this second, and even then it's an estimate, and that estimate is frankly useless.

im sorry for what happened with your daughter but did the lady who did the ve not wear gloves? i dont understand why it caused an infections as this sounds gross.. but people put fingers up there and dont get an infection so howcome ppl get an infection from a finger up there during labour?

 

[youngwife20]

I'm sure I read a comment from Dr Michael Odent along the lines of the spontaneous pushing reflex only really happening in an undisturbed birth situation, so it may be why some women don't get it if they are feeling observed or are not allowed by their attendants to "get in the zone" and may be why it comes on in the loo etc. There's a proper name for it but I can't remember, sorry.

EDA: Saying that, it happened to me this time even when I was willing it not to and was surrounded by 2 hospital MW's and a registrar. My body took over and pushed my babies out, although it wouldn't have taken as much as they were still so tiny, admittedly. It was a horrible feeling to have no control although it would be a great one in a normal birthing situation, it's a hideous paradox for me. BUT when I think about it I never called for help until I was pretty much at that stage as I was in denial that I was in labour at all so I did labour alone and undisturbed, really. I tried every trick in the book that I'd learned about undisturbed labour and reversed it to stop it - I kept the lights on bright, kept myself full of fear (not hard, that), lay on my back to keep pressure off my cervix etc etc. I was afraid every night as I knew that most of us labour at night. Maybe that is what delayed labour for those 6 days, who knows. The stupid registrar discounted being upright and moving around to apply pressure on the cervix to help dilation as "wives tales, midwives tales", I felt like clocking her and it was her that was on call the night I went into labour too, oh joy.

thank you for answerng xx

 

[youngwife20]

Thank you to every single lady that responded! i am glad i know alot of the facts! i think il still go ahead with the VES see what experiance i have with it. seen as its my first. if i dont like it i wont have it with my future pregnancys. but i for sure wont let anyone force me into a ve if i am against it at the time , it feels good to know more info about this

 

[Nikki_d72]

Believe me hun, when its time to start pushing, you'll know!!! No one will need to tell you, your body starts to do it on its own and you have no choice but to join in.

This didn't happen for me. I think i was fully dilated for a while before i was told "Common Andrea - push this baby out"

I didnt have any drugs or even G&A during my labour. I know a couple of other girls who also didn't get that over whelming urge to push. Im hoping i'll experience that this time round.

From what I've read, it's perfectly normal not to feel an urge to push right away. I know a woman who was fully dilated for over 90 minutes before she felt anything. She had a good MW, a supportive doula, and they just waited. Because really, there's no need to rush it, is there? Her body was quite obviously not ready to birth the baby yet. The only people who would've rushed it out were the MW or doctor.

Plus, remember that not everyone's body dilates to 10cm. Some dilate to 9. Some dilate to 12. There's no set rule - just a bunch of jargon some doctors made up that is practically irrelevant because seriously... HOW do you measure 10cm with one hand. It's all guesswork.

My personal experience is that VE's are very uncomfortable and not worth the pain/infection risk. I am one of the unfortunate people who contracted an infection through multiple VE's. An infection that is believed to have then travelled into my daughters open spinal defect and left her with a severely life threatening infection of her own to intend with which took six weeks of intravenous antibiotics to cure.

I was checked every hour, on the hour, sat on a bed being monitored (because my baby had a severe brain disorder and the Drs didn't know how she would react to labour). I progressed VERY slowly, because frankly I was scared shitless. My waters broke by themselves but nothing happened.. I was prodded and poked and it was frankly horrific. VE's are IMO completely useless when determining a womans' progress in labour. It only tells you how far she is NOW, right this second, and even then it's an estimate, and that estimate is frankly useless.

im sorry for what happened with your daughter but did the lady who did the ve not wear gloves? i dont understand why it caused an infections as this sounds gross.. but people put fingers up there and dont get an infection so howcome ppl get an infection from a finger up there during labour?

Hi, Gloves are not actually sterile and much of the bacteria that would cause infection would either come from the hospital environment or from the woman's own vaginal bacterial flora. It's normally not able to track upwards partly because the vagina will self clean "downwards and out" so anything going upwards creates some risk of infection and in labour the mucous plug that seals the cervix and prevents bacteria entering the uterus will have come away, leaving the route open for bacteria to track upwards. Also as the cervix dilates this route becomes more and more open to bacterial infections, obviously. The biggest risk comes after the membranes have been ruptured, as then the baby no longer has it's sterile protective environment and I would really advise against digital cervical examinations after this point, or at least keep them to a minimum.

The biggest reason I'd give though for not allowing them is that they are not neccessary, don't tell you anything useful and the hospital will have you "on the clock" from then on in, and if you don't dilate at their prescribed speed, they will want to augment your labour with synthetic oxytocin and if that still doesn't work satisfactorily enough then they will start talking C-Section.

HTH

 

[madasa]

Believe me hun, when its time to start pushing, you'll know!!! No one will need to tell you, your body starts to do it on its own and you have no choice but to join in.

This didn't happen for me. I think i was fully dilated for a while before i was told "Common Andrea - push this baby out"

I didnt have any drugs or even G&A during my labour. I know a couple of other girls who also didn't get that over whelming urge to push. Im hoping i'll experience that this time round.

From what I've read, it's perfectly normal not to feel an urge to push right away. I know a woman who was fully dilated for over 90 minutes before she felt anything. She had a good MW, a supportive doula, and they just waited. Because really, there's no need to rush it, is there? Her body was quite obviously not ready to birth the baby yet. The only people who would've rushed it out were the MW or doctor.

Plus, remember that not everyone's body dilates to 10cm. Some dilate to 9. Some dilate to 12. There's no set rule - just a bunch of jargon some doctors made up that is practically irrelevant because seriously... HOW do you measure 10cm with one hand. It's all guesswork.

My personal experience is that VE's are very uncomfortable and not worth the pain/infection risk. I am one of the unfortunate people who contracted an infection through multiple VE's. An infection that is believed to have then travelled into my daughters open spinal defect and left her with a severely life threatening infection of her own to intend with which took six weeks of intravenous antibiotics to cure.

I was checked every hour, on the hour, sat on a bed being monitored (because my baby had a severe brain disorder and the Drs didn't know how she would react to labour). I progressed VERY slowly, because frankly I was scared shitless. My waters broke by themselves but nothing happened.. I was prodded and poked and it was frankly horrific. VE's are IMO completely useless when determining a womans' progress in labour. It only tells you how far she is NOW, right this second, and even then it's an estimate, and that estimate is frankly useless.

im sorry for what happened with your daughter but did the lady who did the ve not wear gloves? i dont understand why it caused an infections as this sounds gross.. but people put fingers up there and dont get an infection so howcome ppl get an infection from a finger up there during labour?

Your own fingers are different. They are your OWN germs But if your waters have gone, you shouldn't really be putting your own fingers up there either! Even if they wear gloves, it is still not a great idea. There are bacteria in your vagina - that is normal. The birth canal normally kind of self-cleans downward. When you start poking things UP there during labour you poke bacteria further up and further in.

The fact that it is your first pregnancy has nothing to do with it. You could have ten babies, you only ever get to birth each one once.

 

[PJ32]

I remember as clear as day the first VE with my first, I nearly shot through the roof, the midwife was evil. I was young and hadn't got the guts to say no, i thought it was part of the course. with my 2nd i was a little wiser, had one when i first got in and refused any more, i had no pain meds and a wonderful labour. needless to say this time round i am hoping for the same lol

may i ask how old you were the first time? and so you think not having anymore helped your labour process? thanks for answering

Sorry for the delay in responding. I was 21 at the time, I had been induced which looking back wasn't needed. I had a terrible labour which i ended up having an Epi which resulted in a ventouse delivery. I did use the VE as a bargaining tool to get the epi. She wasn't coming anywhere near me again until i was thoroughly numb.

With my 2nd i had one only right at the start when I was 4 cm and that was it. I now have a phobia of VE and the less the better!

Oh I forgot to add, my first labour 12 hours with 2 of pushing, and my 2nd 4 hours with 20 mins of pushing. I was alot calmer with my 2nd which i think helped.

 

[youngwife20]

Believe me hun, when its time to start pushing, you'll know!!! No one will need to tell you, your body starts to do it on its own and you have no choice but to join in.

This didn't happen for me. I think i was fully dilated for a while before i was told "Common Andrea - push this baby out"

I didnt have any drugs or even G&A during my labour. I know a couple of other girls who also didn't get that over whelming urge to push. Im hoping i'll experience that this time round.

From what I've read, it's perfectly normal not to feel an urge to push right away. I know a woman who was fully dilated for over 90 minutes before she felt anything. She had a good MW, a supportive doula, and they just waited. Because really, there's no need to rush it, is there? Her body was quite obviously not ready to birth the baby yet. The only people who would've rushed it out were the MW or doctor.

Plus, remember that not everyone's body dilates to 10cm. Some dilate to 9. Some dilate to 12. There's no set rule - just a bunch of jargon some doctors made up that is practically irrelevant because seriously... HOW do you measure 10cm with one hand. It's all guesswork.

My personal experience is that VE's are very uncomfortable and not worth the pain/infection risk. I am one of the unfortunate people who contracted an infection through multiple VE's. An infection that is believed to have then travelled into my daughters open spinal defect and left her with a severely life threatening infection of her own to intend with which took six weeks of intravenous antibiotics to cure.

I was checked every hour, on the hour, sat on a bed being monitored (because my baby had a severe brain disorder and the Drs didn't know how she would react to labour). I progressed VERY slowly, because frankly I was scared shitless. My waters broke by themselves but nothing happened.. I was prodded and poked and it was frankly horrific. VE's are IMO completely useless when determining a womans' progress in labour. It only tells you how far she is NOW, right this second, and even then it's an estimate, and that estimate is frankly useless.

im sorry for what happened with your daughter but did the lady who did the ve not wear gloves? i dont understand why it caused an infections as this sounds gross.. but people put fingers up there and dont get an infection so howcome ppl get an infection from a finger up there during labour?

Your own fingers are different. They are your OWN germs But if your waters have gone, you shouldn't really be putting your own fingers up there either! Even if they wear gloves, it is still not a great idea. There are bacteria in your vagina - that is normal. The birth canal normally kind of self-cleans downward. When you start poking things UP there during labour you poke bacteria further up and further in.

The fact that it is your first pregnancy has nothing to do with it. You could have ten babies, you only ever get to birth each one once.

What i was saying about it being my first baby, is i havent experianced it for myself, and i am taking everyones opinion into consideration but i also know people nothing bad has happened from it, so i would like to experiance it for myself this first time then make my decision for further pregnancys.

 

[madasa]

I know what you meant Still - each baby is different, so each birth is different too! My second was totally different from my first and I expect my third will be different again. Listen to your gut. Your instinct is as good as anyone's, no matter how many babies they have had.