Would you trust the h1n1 shot after this...

[aob1013]

Children are born with Autism, immunisations do not cause autism

Did I say that? No. I did not. If you go back and look at ANY of my posts, you'll see that I don't agree that vaccines cause autism, however, I do believe vaccines can trigger underlying dormant conditions to "activate", where their symptoms mimick very closely, autism.

I have seen such in my daughter. Funny how at birth, she has a normal head circumference, at 5 weeks old, a CT Scan shows no evidence of brain damage, but an MRI at nearly 3 years old shows both cerebral hemispheres damaged, most severely, her cortex. Funny how her head stopped growing the same week she had her first vaccine. Funny how she continued to decline as she continued to get vaccines. Funny how her head didn't grow while she was getting vaccines. Funny how her head has grown since we stopped vaccinating. Funny how she has been progressing since we stopped vaccinating.

It's all too coincidental for our situation. I don't believe the vaccine CAUSED her condition, but I do believe it triggered it to activate, and I'm not risking it with my son. Quit rolling your eyes at me. You don't know the situation. It does seem like all you want to do is provoke.

Stop taking things so personally, it was a general comment - not directed at anyone.

 

[Blue_bumpkin]

I personally am not convinced that vaccines do not have a role to play in SIDS either, since the SIDS risk spikes at 2 and 4 months of age, the exact ages babies receive their first vaccines.

I have often come across this in my research as well. It is entirely possible.

I carried out VAST research on this and every medical journal I came across supported that vaccines actually REDUCE the risk of SIDS by inducing positive immunological responses.

I dislike people implying a correlation between vaccines and SIDS as I could not find one piece of supporting evidence that was from a credible source.

ETA: These are but a few (need permissions to view full publication obviously)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17400342

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16945457

I can post more later..

 

[blutea]

I carried out VAST research on this and every medical journal I came across supported that vaccines actually REDUCE the risk of SIDS by inducing positive immunological responses...

Hummm...I'm not sure I believe that logic.

It is possible that vaccines could cause SIDS. Once again it has not been proven but it has not been disproven.

And what about the study done in Japan- where Japan changed the start time for vaccinating from 3 months to two years and straight away their SIDS rate plummeted

 

[bubble123]

I can really appreciate this:

Magazine summed up the relevance of the Poling case in 2008: ...(T)here's no denying that the court's decision to award damages to the Poling family puts a chink -- a question mark -- in what had been an unqualified defense of vaccine safety with regard to autism. If Hannah Poling had an underlying condition that made her vulnerable to being harmed by vaccines, it stands to reason that other children might also have such vulnerabilities."

https://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015982-10391695.html

Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award

The first court award in a vaccine-autism claim is a big one. CBS News has learned the family of Hannah Poling will receive more than $1.5 million dollars for her life care; lost earnings; and pain and suffering for the first year alone.


In addition to the first year, the family will receive more than $500,000 per year to pay for Hannah's care. Those familiar with the case believe the compensation could easily amount to $20 million over the child's lifetime.

Hannah was described as normal, happy and precocious in her first 18 months.

Then, in July 2000, she was vaccinated against nine diseases in one doctor's visit: measles, mumps, rubella, polio, varicella, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, and Haemophilus influenzae.

Afterward, her health declined rapidly. She developed high fevers, stopped eating, didn't respond when spoken to, began showing signs of autism, and began having screaming fits. In 2002, Hannah's parents filed an autism claim in federal vaccine court. Five years later, the government settled the case before trial and had it sealed. It's taken more than two years for both sides to agree on how much Hannah will be compensated for her injuries.

Read Sharyl Attkisson's 2008 report on Hannah Poling

In acknowledging Hannah's injuries, the government said vaccines aggravated an unknown mitochondrial disorder Hannah had which didn't "cause" her autism, but "resulted" in it. It's unknown how many other children have similar undiagnosed mitochondrial disorder. All other autism "test cases" have been defeated at trial. Approximately 4,800 are awaiting disposition in federal vaccine court.

Time Magazine summed up the relevance of the Poling case in 2008: ...(T)here's no denying that the court's decision to award damages to the Poling family puts a chink -- a question mark -- in what had been an unqualified defense of vaccine safety with regard to autism. If Hannah Poling had an underlying condition that made her vulnerable to being harmed by vaccines, it stands to reason that other children might also have such vulnerabilities."

Then-director of the Centers for Disease Control Julie Gerberding (who is now President of Merck Vaccines) stated: "The government has made absolutely no statement indicating that vaccines are a cause of autism. This does not represent anything other than a very specific situation and a very sad situation as far as the family of the affected child."

Read the newly-released decision on Hannah Poling's compensation.

 

[bubble123]

Children are born with Autism, immunisations do not cause autism

I take issue with this remark as well because it is sarcastic and rude.

 

[lisaf]

Vaccinations have ALWAYS been known to have risks... and those risks may be too great for some with an underlying medical condition. They have never denied that!!
It is not some consipiracy being exposed that they awarded damages to a family that had a specific set of circumstances where the child had pre-existing conditions.

You don't trust the information that is distributed about vaccines, as is your right.
But just because something hasn't been proven to be safe beyond all doubt, does not therefore mean its definitely unsafe. And it especially doesn't mean its unsafe for EVERYONE. I know you guys feel that the pro-vaccinators keep attacking your choices, but the tone in a lot of the anti-vaccine posts comes across as critical of those of us who choose to vaccinate. As if we are making unspeakably dangerous choices for ourselves and our families.

 

[AppleBlossom]

I don't think aob meant it the way it came across. The eye rolling smile probably didn't help. But she is right in saying that autism isn't caused by immunisations

 

[blutea]

Vaccinations have ALWAYS been known to have risks... and those risks may be too great for some with an underlying medical condition. They have never denied that!!
It is not some consipiracy being exposed that they awarded damages to a family that had a specific set of circumstances where the child had pre-existing conditions.

You don't trust the information that is distributed about vaccines, as is your right.
But just because something hasn't been proven to be safe beyond all doubt, does not therefore mean its definitely unsafe. And it especially doesn't mean its unsafe for EVERYONE. I know you guys feel that the pro-vaccinators keep attacking your choices, but the tone in a lot of the anti-vaccine posts comes across as critical of those of us who choose to vaccinate. As if we are making unspeakably dangerous choices for ourselves and our families.

Are you kidding me!!!! Once again, I am not anti vaccine! Don't you think that we "vaccine safety advocates" are feeling attacked too!!! Don't you think we realize you (collective you) view us as crazy because we go against the grain of mainstream beliefs! For me and my family vaccines MUST be proven, without a doubt, that they are safe and effective! And if that is not possible then I am NOT going to put my family at risk of vaccine injury and even death. Everyone needs to be informed about the risks of disease and the risks of vaccines! I am do not tell anyone to stop vaccinating! I insist that they do their own research!

 

[lisaf]

Vaccinations have ALWAYS been known to have risks... and those risks may be too great for some with an underlying medical condition. They have never denied that!!
It is not some consipiracy being exposed that they awarded damages to a family that had a specific set of circumstances where the child had pre-existing conditions.

You don't trust the information that is distributed about vaccines, as is your right.
But just because something hasn't been proven to be safe beyond all doubt, does not therefore mean its definitely unsafe. And it especially doesn't mean its unsafe for EVERYONE. I know you guys feel that the pro-vaccinators keep attacking your choices, but the tone in a lot of the anti-vaccine posts comes across as critical of those of us who choose to vaccinate. As if we are making unspeakably dangerous choices for ourselves and our families.

Are you kidding me!!!! Once again, I am not anti vaccine! Don't you think that we "vaccine safety advocates" are feeling attacked too!!! Don't you think we realize you view us as crazy because we go against the grain of mainstream beliefs! For me and my family vaccines MUST be proven, without a doubt, that they are safe and effective!

I'm sorry you don't like the terminology anti-vaccine. Its just a term though. You ARE against vaccines BECAUSE you don't believe they are safe. You are Pro-Safety, but that implies that those of us who vaccinate are throwing safety to the wind by vaccinating.
When you have had reactions and been injured by vaccines, I think your choices make a lot more sense. But there are many many people who hear the stories of vaccine injuries (SOME of which are totally false or unrelated or discredited) and choose not to vaccinate and don't want to even risk an injury. That is their choice, but it does not mean its ALWAYS safer not to vaccinate. Just as it isn't ALWAYS safer to vaccinate.

I resent the pro-safety title because it automatically puts me in opposition to 'safety' which is not true or fair.

 

[lisaf]

I understand your reasons for feeling vaccines are not safe enough for your family. But to expect ANYTHING to be proven 100% safe is idealistic and will never happen. Because nothing will ever be 100% for everyone 100% of the time.
Even water in large enough quantities can kill you.

 

[blutea]

I'm sorry you don't like the terminology anti-vaccine. Its just a term though. You ARE against vaccines BECAUSE you don't believe they are safe. You are Pro-Safety, but that implies that those of us who vaccinate are throwing safety to the wind by vaccinating.
When you have had reactions and been injured by vaccines, I think your choices make a lot more sense. But there are many many people who hear the stories of vaccine injuries (SOME of which are totally false or unrelated or discredited) and choose not to vaccinate and don't want to even risk an injury. That is their choice, but it does not mean its ALWAYS safer not to vaccinate. Just as it isn't ALWAYS safer to vaccinate.

I resent the pro-safety title because it automatically puts me in opposition to 'safety' which is not true or fair.

Look, everyone has the right to share what they believe. If a person chooses not to vaccinate based on others personal experiences that is their right. If someone chooses not to vaccinate because they want to avoid the risk of reaction, injury or death that is their choice. You imply that even by writing I am putting others at risk. You suggest that people are only cattle and they cannot make decisions for themselves. Time and again I have explained that everyone must do their own research. I have never told anyone not to vaccinate based on my beliefs and experiences. Everyone needs to know the risks of disease and the risks of vaccines.

I resent the anti vaccine term because this is not a war. I am not against you. You can define it however you want but I am for vaccine safety. It's too bad you find that offensive. By using the terms pro vaccine and anti vaccine you are pitting us against one another.

 

[lisaf]

I think its good that people question authority and push for more studies and answers about the reactions to vaccines. I don't think there is anything wrong with you sharing your opinion or information you find helpful. Every mother has the right to make an informed decision. I wish your sources had more facts and scientific data behind them. I do worry that a mother will be scared into not vaccinating and face far worse consequences based on the misinformation out there. There are mothers who refuse to vaccinate based on some scare tactic out there, but have no clue what the risks are of the diseases their child is now facing. There are some who don't vaccinate who don't know the statistics of death or serious dibilitating injury from the diseases (death rates like 1 in 1,000 for example).

And yes, scare tactics are used on both sides and some mothers are bullied or scared into vaccinating without understanding the risks.
We've seen a few people come in on this board who had life-long debiliating effects from some of these diseases. Yes, they survived but have health issues now far worse than most vaccine reactions. That is something that the "vaccine safety advocates" seem to largely gloss over and that is what disturbs me.

I think every mother has a right to make a fully informed choice about all the risks. I just worry when the information provided is unreliable, unproven, and filled with scare tactics.
Nothing in life is totally safe. You have to choose the risks that are best for your family.

I don't want to get into a semantic debate here. I only criticized your label of choice because you objected to the label I applied. You are free to call yourself whatever you want. And I am free to label your views as in opposition to mine. I do not think or mean to imply you are crazy.

You seem to feel that your family's reactions to vaccines are a reason to call into question the safety of vaccines for everyone. I'm sorry if I'm misreading you, but none of your statements seem to accept that vaccines do good for most people in the world with little to no side effects. Vaccines in fact, protect people who are too sensitive to get vaccinated.

 

[Blue_bumpkin]

I carried out VAST research on this and every medical journal I came across supported that vaccines actually REDUCE the risk of SIDS by inducing positive immunological responses...

Hummm...I'm not sure I believe that logic.

It is possible that vaccines could cause SIDS. Once again it has not been proven but it has not been disproven.

And what about the study done in Japan- where Japan changed the start time for vaccinating from 3 months to two years and straight away their SIDS rate plummeted

'Believe that logic'?? Its scientific studies im refering to, not something i just conjured up

 

[blutea]

I think its good that people question authority and push for more studies and answers about the reactions to vaccines. I don't think there is anything wrong with you sharing your opinion or information you find helpful. Every mother has the right to make an informed decision. I wish your sources had more facts and scientific data behind them. I do worry that a mother will be scared into not vaccinating and face far worse consequences based on the misinformation out there. There are mothers who refuse to vaccinate based on some scare tactic out there, but have no clue what the risks are of the diseases their child is now facing. There are some who don't vaccinate who don't know the statistics of death or serious dibilitating injury from the diseases (death rates like 1 in 1,000 for example).

And yes, scare tactics are used on both sides and some mothers are bullied or scared into vaccinating without understanding the risks.
We've seen a few people come in on this board who had life-long debiliating effects from some of these diseases. Yes, they survived but have health issues now far worse than most vaccine reactions. That is something that the "vaccine safety advocates" seem to largely gloss over and that is what disturbs me.

I think every mother has a right to make a fully informed choice about all the risks. I just worry when the information provided is unreliable, unproven, and filled with scare tactics.
Nothing in life is totally safe. You have to choose the risks that are best for your family.

I don't want to get into a semantic debate here. I only criticized your label of choice because you objected to the label I applied. You are free to call yourself whatever you want. And I am free to label your views as in opposition to mine. I do not think or mean to imply you are crazy.

You seem to feel that your family's reactions to vaccines are a reason to call into question the safety of vaccines for everyone. I'm sorry if I'm misreading you, but none of your statements seem to accept that vaccines do good for most people in the world with little to no side effects. Vaccines in fact, protect people who are too sensitive to get vaccinated.

The problem is the information is largely unfounded on both sides. It's a large science experiment. We have no idea how babies are going to react to multiply injections on the same day. They have never been studied in these combinations that we are using now. I think it's safe to say that many more parents are bullied into vaccinating than not vaccinating and once they do their research they choose not to vaccinate based upon personal experience or logic. You can dispute my links all day but that does not mean that there aren't many other links and articles that you will accept. I say it to you too, don't base YOUR decision on my links and information, do your own research. I also own several books that are far more reliable. I accept that vaccines have an effect but they do not prevent disease as a whole picture. Without good health and good nutrution vaccines would probably have no effect. They are only one piece in the disease prevention puzzle. And for my family we choose the other pieces.

 

[blutea]

I carried out VAST research on this and every medical journal I came across supported that vaccines actually REDUCE the risk of SIDS by inducing positive immunological responses...

Hummm...I'm not sure I believe that logic.

It is possible that vaccines could cause SIDS. Once again it has not been proven but it has not been disproven.

And what about the study done in Japan- where Japan changed the start time for vaccinating from 3 months to two years and straight away their SIDS rate plummeted

'Believe that logic'?? Its scientific studies im refering to, not something i just conjured up

Are you familiar with the study where Japan changed the start time for vaccinating from 3 months to two years and straight away their SIDS rate plummeted?

 

[Blue_bumpkin]

I carried out VAST research on this and every medical journal I came across supported that vaccines actually REDUCE the risk of SIDS by inducing positive immunological responses...

Hummm...I'm not sure I believe that logic.

It is possible that vaccines could cause SIDS. Once again it has not been proven but it has not been disproven.

And what about the study done in Japan- where Japan changed the start time for vaccinating from 3 months to two years and straight away their SIDS rate plummeted

'Believe that logic'?? Its scientific studies im refering to, not something i just conjured up

Are you familiar with the study where Japan changed the start time for vaccinating from 3 months to two years and straight away their SIDS rate plummeted?

Ive yet to see a valid peice on it tbh. if you could provide a link to one i would be interested in reading it.

 

[Justagirlxx]

I personally am not convinced that vaccines do not have a role to play in SIDS either, since the SIDS risk spikes at 2 and 4 months of age, the exact ages babies receive their first vaccines.

I have often come across this in my research as well. It is entirely possible.

I carried out VAST research on this and every medical journal I came across supported that vaccines actually REDUCE the risk of SIDS by inducing positive immunological responses.

I dislike people implying a correlation between vaccines and SIDS as I could not find one piece of supporting evidence that was from a credible source.

ETA: These are but a few (need permissions to view full publication obviously)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17400342

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16945457

I can post more later..

Until you provide me with links to studies done comparing the SIDs rates of vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated children or a study showing the exact cause of SIDS I will not be satisfied that there is zero correlation between vaccines and SIDS.

The first study is absolute BS by the way and bases their findings on something that could be completely causal and even ADMITS it. (They have not ruled out other causes of reduced risk of SIDS and it could just as easily be caused by hundreds of other variables.)

 

[lisaf]

What bothers me is that all it takes is a rumor of a possible consequence from vaccines to CONVINCE people that there are major risks that are high enough that they need to worry. Yet the evidence contradicting those fears and rumors will never be enough to satisfy some people.

Its not possible to live a risk-free life, its not possible to know 100% what will happen. (again, I am not directing this a parents who have seen a reaction in their child to vaccines and choose not to risk further vaccinations... you are the ones who are SUPPOSED to skip vaccinations). MILLIONS of children are vaccinated every year and yet most things like SIDS are stable or on the decline. Our infant death rate used to be so MUCH higher, partly through the help of vaccines and better healthcare/hygiene.
We are never going to be able to eliminate all the possible things that can go wrong.

You can't prove to me that SIDS is not caused by something else... autism too... why are vaccines the scapegoat for all of these things? We all want to know the cause of SIDS and autism, but we're still looking for causes for cancer. People focus SO MUCH on vaccines and blame them for EVERYTHING that in all likelihood they COULD be slowing down the progress in finding the real cause of some of these issues.

I could say that vampires cause SIDS and until you prove to me otherwise, i'm going to hang garlic around all the windows in my nursery to keep them out. And you know? that would be my choice. Fearing something does not make it, in reality, a real concern.
I'm not trying to make light of vaccine fears, just that the logic applied is so faulty at times it drives me crazy.

The agencies who produce and distribute and develop vaccines are VERY conscious of the consequences of a dangerous product and have passed countless safety protocols to even make it on the market. You put lotion on your skin that has passed far fewer protocols and may have unknown effects. You put sunblock on your child that has chemicals in it that are known to be dangerous on some level.
There is always going to be SOME danger. That does not mean you avoid everything in life.

 

[blutea]

What bothers me is that all it takes is a rumor of a possible consequence from vaccines to CONVINCE people that there are major risks that are high enough that they need to worry. Yet the evidence contradicting those fears and rumors will never be enough to satisfy some people.

Its not possible to live a risk-free life, its not possible to know 100% what will happen. (again, I am not directing this a parents who have seen a reaction in their child to vaccines and choose not to risk further vaccinations... you are the ones who are SUPPOSED to skip vaccinations). MILLIONS of children are vaccinated every year and yet most things like SIDS are stable or on the decline. Our infant death rate used to be so MUCH higher, partly through the help of vaccines and better healthcare/hygiene.
We are never going to be able to eliminate all the possible things that can go wrong.

You can't prove to me that SIDS is not caused by something else... autism too... why are vaccines the scapegoat for all of these things? We all want to know the cause of SIDS and autism, but we're still looking for causes for cancer. People focus SO MUCH on vaccines and blame them for EVERYTHING that in all likelihood they COULD be slowing down the progress in finding the real cause of some of these issues.

I could say that vampires cause SIDS and until you prove to me otherwise, i'm going to hang garlic around all the windows in my nursery to keep them out. And you know? that would be my choice. Fearing something does not make it, in reality, a real concern.
I'm not trying to make light of vaccine fears, just that the logic applied is so faulty at times it drives me crazy.

The agencies who produce and distribute and develop vaccines are VERY conscious of the consequences of a dangerous product and have passed countless safety protocols to even make it on the market. You put lotion on your skin that has passed far fewer protocols and may have unknown effects. You put sunblock on your child that has chemicals in it that are known to be dangerous on some level.
There is always going to be SOME danger. That does not mean you avoid everything in life.

You know, you could spin this around and say that we (man) fear disease so vaccines were created. Therefore, vaccines are a product of man's fear. I feel I am educated enough about disease to not fear it and not need vaccines. We don't know the long term effects of all these vaccines. I would much rather trust my GOD given immune system than take an injection that contains countless chemicals and toxins created by man, who fears disease.

It's important to be informed about the risks and dangers of vaccines and if a person chooses not to vaccinate because they do not want to take the risk that is up to them. I don't appreciate how you continue to minimize the risks of vaccines. Every death, whether it's by vaccine or disease is tragic. But injury or death due to disease is a fact of life. Injury or death due to a vaccine is preventable. I am so sorry for your sister's death due to a disease, it was tragic. I am so sad for babies who are injured or die due to vaccines or a complication because of the vaccine, that is extreme tragic.

Vampires have nothing to due with vaccines or SIDS. Just so you know, I don't really find your analogies very helpful. I actually find most of them to be insulting and full of sarcasm.

Protocols may be put in place for vaccines but recalls happen all the time. Man's vaccine creation is not perfect and we do not know the full spectrum of reactions until it is thrown out on the general public. You need to understand that by choosing not to vaccinate a person is only avoiding a medical procedure that may or may not work. By not vaccinated a person is actually living life and trusting their immune sytem given by GOD. If you think about it vaccines are an avoidance method...to avoid disease that that person fears.

 

[blutea]

I carried out VAST research on this and every medical journal I came across supported that vaccines actually REDUCE the risk of SIDS by inducing positive immunological responses...

Hummm...I'm not sure I believe that logic.

It is possible that vaccines could cause SIDS. Once again it has not been proven but it has not been disproven.

And what about the study done in Japan- where Japan changed the start time for vaccinating from 3 months to two years and straight away their SIDS rate plummeted

'Believe that logic'?? Its scientific studies im refering to, not something i just conjured up

Are you familiar with the study where Japan changed the start time for vaccinating from 3 months to two years and straight away their SIDS rate plummeted?

Ive yet to see a valid peice on it tbh. if you could provide a link to one i would be interested in reading it.

You should be able to google it.