,

[silver_penny]

For those of you who had births that didn't go to plan, I feel deeply for you. My first didn't go to plan, either, and I struggled a long time with that. Emotionally, mentally, physically. I cried over it and there are still bitter feelings over it. No, I didn't have an instrumental delivery, it wasn't a c-section, I didn't have any drugs. However, I was treated like a number in the hospital system, just one more birth that "had" to be done. My DH wasn't allowed in the room for the birth, and they forced pitocin on me for the third stage, even though I told them not to give it to me. I was made to urinate in the bed, because they didn't have a toilet available. The list goes on...

Now, as I stated before, my second birth was unassisted. So onto the quote:

This has come up before and ive never seen any information/studies that show that a epidural has any effect on baby...well unless you count articles written by the sort of women who think they are some kind of martyr for not using pain relief and giving birth in a forest.

Never seen any real evidence and every medical proffesional i have asked has said it doesnt "drug" the baby up

No, I am not a martyr. I didn't give birth in the forest, but I also didn't have any professionals there. My second birth was a healing experience from my first, but I am not going around saying that every woman should do this. Each and every birth is a seperate and personal experience. Some of those experiences are positive, and some are negative. However, it all depends on the woman, the baby, and those helping. Two seperate women could have the same birth on paper, but view it in a different manner (positive v. negative) This is one reason why I don't like labeling things with all-encompassing labels such as "natural."

In regards to the epidural, the following is a quote from APA:

How can an epidural affect my baby? As stated above, research on the effects of epidurals on newborn health is somewhat ambiguous and many factors may be contributing to newborn health at the time of birth. How much of an effect these medications will have is difficult to judge and could vary based on dosage, how long labor continues and individual babies. Dosages and medications vary, so concrete information from research is lacking. Studies reveal that some babies may initially have trouble "latching on" among other difficulties with breastfeeding. While in-utero, they may become lethargic and have trouble getting into position for delivery. These medications have been known to cause respiratory depression, and decreased fetal heart rate in newborns. Though the medication may not harm the baby, the baby may experience subtle effects like those mentioned above.

It does effect the baby, however it can be a great tool during labor if and when it is used appropriately. Some labors need the use of an epidural and benefit from it. I'm not here to judge, nor do I think anyone is.

Yes, we all have happy healthy babies and we should be proud of that. However, I don't think we should be going around getting offended at other people's opinions of our births, as they are such a personal thing. Some of us have had negative experiences that still grate on us. Some of us feel guilty about our experiences. Some of us had our perfect birth (whether "natural" or not!!). Some of us are still on a high from these births and can't wait to share them with our babies when they get older.

I think we should put all bad feelings aside, comfort those who had a negative experience, and share the joys of those who had their perfect birth.

 

[lolababes]

I've got an appointment to go and talk it through with the consultant so I'm hoping that will help to start laying the whole thing to rest. Maybe once they tell me there really was no other way and that there was nothing I could've done to prevent it, it'll be easier - I've heard it from the health visitor but I need to hear it from someone who was actually there before I can believe it, I think. On a good day I can look on the bright side - at least my piles didn't get any worse and I was lucky enough not to dilate past 5cm - apparently the doctor on duty that morning is particularly keen on the forceps that go right up into your pelvis to turn the baby and then pull them out so if I'd got to 10cm they'd have tried those!

Crossing my fingers that next time round I'll have an easier time - I want to try for a vbac but if they think I'm going in there and getting strapped to a monitor again they've got another thing coming. At least I know they can't give me any synto!

I'm now seriously considering getting a nappy and t-shirt with 'I came out the sunroof and it was f-ing horrendous' or something similar made up

Sorry to hijack your thread OP

yeah i got the lovely forcepts LOL. Did nothing and still had EMCS but there you go

i hope the talk helps you. i thought about going to do the same. i was really obsessing over the whle thing for a while but i'm ok now and i'd rather not go back over it now. i think it will help you though. I also want a vbac next time. i'm going to be refusing constant monitoring unless the baby shows any distress as i do feel that being on CTG the whole time was not helpful for me. xxxxx

I hope you both get your VBACs That was one thing I was adamant, I didnt want to be 'strapped to the bed' my hospital uses telemetry (I think it was called) basically wireless monitoring. I had the straps on but was able to still move around.

Sorry OP for hijacking there

 

[LeeBee]

EVERY woman could go pain free if she had to. Some just choose not to Like me. Excruciating pain isn't going to make child birth any more "magical" for me. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Once I got my epi and was able to relax, I was able to get excited and really enjoy the whole experience!

Now, when I look back at my sons birth, I can remember little things like the exact time I realized I was going to have to actually push a baby out! 8:05 pm the doctor came in and said that I was 9 cm and we'd start pushing in an hour, and I thought "Oh CRAP!" And the funny comment my husband made when they broke my water... "well I guess there's no turning back now! (doctor responded, "I don't think there was any turning back before...)"

You know what I remember before my epi? Curling up on a couch screaming in pain!

 

[Lilly12]

I can remember everything and I didn't have any pain relief and my labor was 32 hours long, painful from almost the start.
I see my labor experience as very positive and if people wanna hate on that cause they're jealous.. Go ahead
Pain is only so much.. If you prepare for it and learn to give in to your body and baby and not to fear it, you will have less pain cause your muscles will be relaxed.
Tell yourself positive things like labor pain is good pain, and you will experience less pain.

I do not understand why women say "why would you do it without pain relief".. Umm maybe cause you CAN? Maybe cause you and your baby don't NEED medicines ? Maybe cause you want to experience labor and birth in the most natural way possible?
Maybe cause giving birth is a natural thing so why not keep it natural?
maybe cause medicines might slow down labor or maybe cause you don't want you and your baby to get drugged up while labor is so temporary?

When I have a headache or whatever I don't take pills either, I think when you are in pain you should take care of the cause and not drug up and forget about it.

Im just replying to someone that said "why would you wanna give birth naturally anyway!"

 

[Katt]

I don't think it is a fair statement to say every woman could go pain free.

Pain can cause panic which slows down labour. Pain can completely overwhelm you and stop you working with your body to push. These could ultimately lead to serious complications. Man, even exhaustion can cause massive problems.

If every woman had to give birth withut pain relief, mortality rates would rocket.

 

[Lilly12]

I don't think it is a fair statement to say every woman could go pain free.

Pain can cause panic which slows down labour. Pain can completely overwhelm you and stop you working with your body to push. These could ultimately lead to serious complications. Man, even exhaustion can cause massive problems.

If every woman had to give birth withut pain relief, mortality rates would rocket.

Yeah every woman can do it. With a little bit of preparation anyone could do it.
But most women do not prepare for labor, yes maybe some breathing excersizes here and there. Not the mental aspect of it which is the most important.

 

[Pixelle]

I don't think it is a fair statement to say every woman could go pain free.

Pain can cause panic which slows down labour. Pain can completely overwhelm you and stop you working with your body to push. These could ultimately lead to serious complications. Man, even exhaustion can cause massive problems.

If every woman had to give birth withut pain relief, mortality rates would rocket.

Yeah every woman can do it. With a little bit of preparation anyone could do it.
But most women do not prepare for labor, yes maybe some breathing excersizes here and there. Not the mental aspect of it which is the most important.

That is all I can say, without using bad language.

 

[Katt]

I'm not sure I agree. Without modern medicine, pain relief and other intervention, mortality rates were much higher than they are these days.

Even with massive amounts of preparation childbirth is an extremely scary thing and that fear can lead to problems. Pain relief allows the woman to feel more in control and work with her body rather than against it.

However, pain relief is only one factor in an endless amount of things that could cause issues. It would be too difficult to attribute problems simply to the lack of pain relief. But it is a factor.

Hope that makes sense, I am a little tired!

 

[Pixelle]

I've read the whole thread. What is wrong with some of you? So disrespectful.

I had a "natural" birth. And by God do I wish I hadn't.
I am pretty much traumatised from it. I know other people have been through much, much worse and I honestly don't know how they coped! But my labour was pretty damn terrifying...TO ME and all done "naturally"...although I had Gas and Air for a small part of it. I can't even go into it as the memories are too horrible. Just after my son was born, I put it to the back of my mind and tried to tell myself it was normal and everything was ok. Now, 7 months on, I'm still affected by it and it's making me not want another child!

Does it really matter to you (as in everyone...not one person) how women give birth to their babies? Why do people feel the need to sit in judgement? Or make sweeping statements that actually make the person who posted look quite ridiculous.

People who suggested that "everyone can give birth naturally"..."you just have to be prepared"...and all the other similar statements are just pretty much ignorant and/or stupid. Just my opinion of course

 

[Lilly12]

Eh I'm not the one that judges I'm just saying.
Earlier on I was the one that got judged.
people calling me a martyr cause I'm proud of my natural birth lol..!!

And I really could care less how others give birth to be honest I was just saying any women (without baby or her being in danger) can have a natural birth if they wanted. Nobody has ever died of pain. It's your brain that handles that pain and if you could control your thoughts you will have a much more pleasant birth without pain meds is all I am saying . Things like hypno birthing for instance .
I used hypno birthing and I could see that if I wasn't prepared that I'd have been scared and then I would have experienced way more pain than I did.

Again I'm not arguing I am just stating my opinion, isn't that whT this forum is for?
No need to call me ignorant or stupid for that, I didn't call nobody stupid did I ?
If you are offended by what I write than maybe you should take a look inside of yourself instead of calling me names
Its funny how the only people that comment on that are the ones that did have painrelief and/or wanted a natural/painrelief free birth but didn't. I'm sorry you didn't but that doesn't mean that you have to call me names.

 

[aliss]

Well, yes, everyone woman CAN have a med-free birth. I can also saw my leg off without pain meds too - and so can you

I'm not a fan of pain medications - they contributed greatly to my son's shoulder dystocia - however, I'm not sure how hypnobirthing, "putting my mind to it", or other methods (believe me, I actually walked into my labour with Ina May's Guide to Childbirth) can help women cope with 3-4 days of full blown labour.

It's one thing to have your water break, have natural contractions for 6-10 hours, and then push it out in 20 minutes. And then there is the rest of us who had 3-4 days of full blown labour, 4 hours pushing, and other agony. I was to the point that I was eyeing a scalpel and wanting to actually slash my wrists (no joke) and bleed out.

If all labours went like textbook or even just a bit worse than that, then sure, I'm sure most of us would have coped fine. But then there's those of us who would have been in agony for up to a week and delivered a stillborn. Have you pushed for 4 hours? I still have pelvic problems to this day.

 

[LeeBee]

I should be clear... when I said earlier than all women could do it if they had to, I meant if they HAD to. As in, if there were no pain meds around, they would probably live. I absolutely agree- there are times when it's needed. Doctors think so too- that's why they push them.

 

[Nessicle]

Lilly12 I'm sorry but if you'd had my labour and birth I'm pretty sure you wouldnt be saying that. You're only saying that because you had a normal delivery, its actually quite offensive to make a statement like that. It is not true not ALL women CAN give birth naturally "if we put our mind to it". If that is the case why have so many women died in the past during childbirth?

Nobody is saying women who dont have pain relief are martyrs it was just me trying to get my head round it as I couldnt cope without pain relief 12 hours was enough for me. But thats just ME and MY opinion not a judgement on anyone as I said again and again I admire anyone who CAN do it without pain relief but I think that either it was too late for pain relief so wasnt their choice or their labour simply wasnt as painful as mine (before I get verbally beat up I'm not saying it wasnt painful - I dont think its a walk in the park for anyone but some are more painful than others).

I'd love to see you do my birth with no pain relief - ever had endless hands shoved up you? huge salad tongues? (Twice!). Hell I even felt them cut me open during the emcs. They had to stop to top up drugs. My body was so exhausted.

Suppose the 5 months of hardly any sleep due to working full time, hip issues and being so huge I couldnt get comfortable, didnt help as my body was already worn out by the time labour came. I managed on 3 hours sleep a night for 5 months.

Thank f*ck for the epi and thank f*ck for modern medicine! I could rest a little and thankfully didnt need to be put under general anaesthetic for the emcs I think it would have made my PND even worse. Plus not to mention it saved our lives!

And we dont hate anyone cos we had a terrible time we might be jealous but that doesnt mean we "hate". Perhaps you'd be a bit jealous if you didnt hear your baby's first try, or get skin to skin, or remember seeing them the first time?

Dont even get me started on the fact my body also failed to produce any milk to feed my baby due to losing a litre of blood.....

 

[M&S+Bump]

Well, yes, everyone woman CAN have a med-free birth. I can also saw my leg off without pain meds too - and so can you

I'm not a fan of pain medications - they contributed greatly to my son's shoulder dystocia - however, I'm not sure how hypnobirthing, "putting my mind to it", or other methods (believe me, I actually walked into my labour with Ina May's Guide to Childbirth) can help women cope with 3-4 days of full blown labour.

It's one thing to have your water break, have natural contractions for 6-10 hours, and then push it out in 20 minutes. And then there is the rest of us who had 3-4 days of full blown labour, 4 hours pushing, and other agony. I was to the point that I was eyeing a scalpel and wanting to actually slash my wrists (no joke) and bleed out.

If all labours went like textbook or even just a bit worse than that, then sure, I'm sure most of us would have coped fine. But then there's those of us who would have been in agony for up to a week and delivered a stillborn. Have you pushed for 4 hours? I still have pelvic problems to this day.

I would've happily let them take a scalpel to me BEFORE they put the spinal in, if it was going to make the pain stop. Either that or I was surely going to die.

I was prepared, I'd read all the books, been to all the classes and practised breathing, positions, hypno-birthing, meditation, you name it. It's what got me through the initial 3+ days at home, if I'd not had all that I would've been battering the door of the hospital down a lot earlier, never mind that I was only 2cm. I fully believed my body could do it, and trust me, I know the difference between good pain and bad pain (tattoo addict here) and was accepting and relaxing during the contractions - then once it got really bad, I was still managing by focusing on the fact that the epidural is coming soon, by this point I'd been in labour so long there was no point focusing on the end result cos as far as I knew it could still be days away.

Then they told me I couldn't have the epidural and they were going to put the drip in to speed things up with no pain relief - THAT'S when I panicked. Panicking and fighting and screaming didn't make the pain any worse - it may have hindered the labour but I think it was probably the least of the things hindering it at that point.

I would dearly have loved a pain-free labour but they wouldn't/couldn't give me anything no matter how much I begged and screamed

I think no sentence should be started off with 'I think every woman can..' or 'if you'd just done x, y and z, you too could have..' - because at best it's a daft generalisation, at worst it's patronising and insulting to those of us who 'couldn't' or did everything we possibly could and more and blame ourselves enough already without being told 'if only you'd prepared/stood on your head/been strong enough (yes, somebody actually said that to me directly before) you too could have..'

 

[Nessicle]

god you had a terrible time hun - i had the hormone drip my god that was horrendous!! My waters had been gone too long and they needed to speed up dilation and I had pain through the epi and that was bad enough!

We've been through "colic" (doesnt exist despite what HV and docs tell you...) and silent reflux if you want any advice I'm a pro - PM me chick dont wanna hijack the thread lol xx

 

[M&S+Bump]

And we dont hate anyone cos we had a terrible time we might be jealous but that doesnt mean we "hate". Perhaps you'd be a bit jealous if you didnt hear your baby's first try, or get skin to skin, or remember seeing them the first time?

Dont even get me started on the fact my body also failed to produce any milk to feed my baby due to losing a litre of blood.....

I freely admit to hating - but only the smug ones

The list goes on - if you didn't get to hold your baby til hours later, or they got brought to you to hold but you were just too damn weak to lift your arms so they just lay across your lap for a while til someone came and took them away again, or if they came and took them away for some antibiotics, promising to bring them back in an hour and then came and told you two hours later that actually, you're not getting your baby back while you sit on a ward full of other new mothers who all have their babies there beside them, your baby is going in a plastic box in the neonatal and you can go and look but don't touch, the first picture you get of your baby they're covered in wires and there's monitors everywhere.. etc Green-eyed monsters-r-us!

And I count myself as one of the lucky ones - my baby came out of the box after only five days and we came home from the hospital together just over a week later.

on the BF. That must be awful. We really struggled with it but got there in the end, I would've been absolutely devastated if I'd had that taken from me as well.

 

[Nessicle]

And we dont hate anyone cos we had a terrible time we might be jealous but that doesnt mean we "hate". Perhaps you'd be a bit jealous if you didnt hear your baby's first try, or get skin to skin, or remember seeing them the first time?

Dont even get me started on the fact my body also failed to produce any milk to feed my baby due to losing a litre of blood.....

I freely admit to hating - but only the smug ones

The list goes on - if you didn't get to hold your baby til hours later, or they got brought to you to hold but you were just too damn weak to lift your arms so they just lay across your lap for a while til someone came and took them away again, or if they came and took them away for some antibiotics, promising to bring them back in an hour and then came and told you two hours later that actually, you're not getting your baby back while you sit on a ward full of other new mothers who all have their babies there beside them, your baby is going in a plastic box in the neonatal and you can go and look but don't touch, the first picture you get of your baby they're covered in wires and there's monitors everywhere.. etc Green-eyed monsters-r-us!

And I count myself as one of the lucky ones - my baby came out of the box after only five days and we came home from the hospital together just over a week later.

on the BF. That must be awful. We really struggled with it but got there in the end, I would've been absolutely devastated if I'd had that taken from me as well.

yeah the smug ones I want to punch very hard lol!

All that bullshit about epis drugging up the baby too - everyone commented that Ava was the most alert baby they'd ever seen regardless of the fact she'd been stuck for about 4 hours lol!

Ava was taken from me a lot - I was in so much pain and she screamed every time I tried to breastfeed her cos she was starving the midwives had to come and take her and she'd only sleep near the midwives station that felt awful too and she also was on IV antibiotics for 2 hours a day for 3 days she had a little drip in her tiny foot it was upsetting - I cant imagine how upsetting it must be to have your baby in NICU x

The breastfeeding thing for me was harder to come to terms with than the birth. I pumped 4x a day for 20 minutes each boob for about 2 weeks and I sat and cried everytime. Instead of being told to enjoy my baby and realise that there was no milk and it was unlikely I'd get any now, it was pushed to keep trying. All I remember those first few weeks is pain from the section and not being able to even put my own underwear on and sitting crying. Then the acid reflux kicked in and she screamed every day for 10 hours clearly in pain (dont get me started on the effing colic "diagnosis") for 12 weeks .

It upsets me to admit that in the first month I really struggled to cope and bond with Ava and because now she is my world and I love her so much i cant even describe, I feel like crying that those first few weeks were ruined by the pushy breastfeeding brigade coming out with the same stupid ignorant comments "every woman can do it" "formula isnt natural why would you want to feed your baby that"....there are a lot of positives to formula feeding and while I appreciate that breastfeeding is the best for our babies, formula should be accepted and recognised as a safe and effective way to feed our babies if we cant or choose not to breastfeed - rant over ha ha

xx

 

[tristansmum]

i understand what the poster meant in that everyone could do it without pain relief eg if you are a woman in a lesser developed country where pain relief is not available then yes you just have to do it. I watched a programme recently about births in sierra leone (sp) and they had no pain relief available and yes they did it... no choice... but many women seemed very traumatised by their births and often it did not seem a happy experience.

I am a nurse and I do think people underestimate how different our pain tolerences are. Also how people cope completely differently to each other. i've seen people have their leg amputated and they are up and motivated the next day while the next room is a man who never recovers... same age, ame operation. a person having there wisdom teeth out and screaming in agony and demanding morphine.. in the next bed the woman is up and drinking tea. We are all different and we HAVE to respect that.

Yes i feel a bit envious of women who had a wonderful birthing experience but i'm not bitter to them. its all different circumstances. unless you had the exact same experience then you can't possibly comment on who that person coped.

I was prepared. I read books, watch a milion births and was adament i was only uing gas & air... well i couldn't cope. I had pethadine. It allowed me to relax and keep going.

Lets not fight guys. xxxx

 

[Pixelle]

Eh I'm not the one that judges I'm just saying.
Earlier on I was the one that got judged.
people calling me a martyr cause I'm proud of my natural birth lol..!!

And I really could care less how others give birth to be honest I was just saying any women (without baby or her being in danger) can have a natural birth if they wanted. Nobody has ever died of pain. It's your brain that handles that pain and if you could control your thoughts you will have a much more pleasant birth without pain meds is all I am saying . Things like hypno birthing for instance .
I used hypno birthing and I could see that if I wasn't prepared that I'd have been scared and then I would have experienced way more pain than I did.

Again I'm not arguing I am just stating my opinion, isn't that whT this forum is for?
No need to call me ignorant or stupid for that, I didn't call nobody stupid did I ?
If you are offended by what I write than maybe you should take a look inside of yourself instead of calling me names
Its funny how the only people that comment on that are the ones that did have painrelief and/or wanted a natural/painrelief free birth but didn't. I'm sorry you didn't but that doesn't mean that you have to call me names.

Banging on about every woman again, I see.

The way I see it, yes, you are ignorant. I'm not calling you names. Just stating how I see it.
Many women here have explained why they couldn't have a natural birth, lots of them because it would be a danger to themselves/baby, and yet you still carry on with the "every woman" thing.


And actually, you're wrong. I had a "natural" birth, in the main. And I wish I hadn't. I was not allowed pain relief. I was strapped to the bed, not able to move. I was induced. I also had GD so was dripped up to the eyeballs. My baby was being constantly monitored. At one point, he got stuck. I was screaming for pain relief....even G&A would have helped. I tore badly and lost a lot of blood. Had no stitches as they didn't tell me the extent of my tears. So as for a natural birth....it pretty much was.

I'm not bitter or jealous about anyone elses birth. Shit happens. But I do get annoyed at blanket statements thrown around. Just because YOU could do it, doesn't mean "every woman" can.
Sure, feel proud of yourself, I do! But don't make others feel inferior because of your ignorance and sweeping generalisations.

 

[jojo_b]

God Lilly...some people would call you a total moron. Luckily I'm not that rude. I think it's actually lovely that you're so naive to believe that every woman can give birth without medical intervention. You are, of course, wrong, but it's nice that you view the female body in such a positive light.

Thankfully the medical professionals who dealt with my undiagnosed placenta praevia didn't have your misplaced confidence and (after 60 hours) decided that a sunroof jobby was the best bet. Hence, we're both here today, none the worse. He's an amazing baby and I'm an awesome mum. So what if I was full of drugs? That's what they're there for!