,

[jstarr]

I would say a natural birth is a vaginal birth without 'help' ie. forceps, ventouse or epi..personally I would still say someone who had g&a had a natural birth, they are natural substances and lets be fair it doesn't do that much to ease the pain

I had a very un-natural birth and I feel quite ashamed really which is silly I know but oh well

 

[bathbabe]

Why do people take things so literally lol I didnt mean "you" as in directed at anyone in particular, I meant the general public the majority of people WILL take medication when they have a headache or in pain....good grief....

So i should of just kept my mouth shut and let you assume everyone is drugged up all the time because of this that and the other? Because im not in the 'majority' im not allowed to say my piece?

I only used gas and air because it has no effect on the baby, but i wasnt going to drug my baby with an epi to make my labour easier for myself when i knew i could cope without it.

Wow this thread has turned nasty.

Just FYI i didnt "drug" my baby up with a epi seeing as it doesnt pass the placenta.

I hope for a homebirth this time with no pain relief that doesnt make me better then people who use pain relief.

I wasnt being nasty at all

that reads as pretty nasty and is actually wrong anyway.

I think that epidurals shouldnt be so easily offered and more natural pain relief encouraged like water or different positions but surely if a mum is really struggling its better for her to get pain relief then start freaking out.

I didnt realise until reading this thread that there was this silly competition about who did and didnt use pain relief. Its pretty sad really.

Maybe you should read the rest of the sentance. i knew i could cope without it
How is saying I could cope being nasty?!

I also never said it was a compitition!

And yes it does cross the placenta.

 

[pinkie77]

I dont consider myself a martyr. That to me would be someone who went around saying "oh I was in the most excruciating pain and I didn't have so much as a paracetamol". If I'd needed pain relief then I would've had it, the g&a was there ready. I just never got to the point where I couldn't manage it.

 

[Melsie]

In my notes my midwife wrote that I had a natural birth and I has used gas and air for about half and hour, and I also class it as natural birth and really proud of it. Gas and air does not really stop all the pain and like another lady mentioned is natural.

 

[taylor197878]

i had a natural birth with brooke no drugs at all was only in labour 5 hours lol i also had a natural birth with my 2nd and 3rd no drugs at all no help no assisted,

with my first i had a epudruial,

 

[MarchMummy11]

"Natural" birth to me is vaginally and no pain relief or assisted help. Although imo even if you use g&a or take paracetamol it's still not far off of natural.

I commend any woman that manages it "naturally" but not everyone can unfortunately. Some people don't even get the choice My waters had gone but I wasn't in labour, Daniels heartbeat kept dipping and then mine did too so it ended up an emergency section. I would of loved the chance to do it naturally.

No matter how it's done though, we're all bloody brave and amazing!!

 

[mrs_park]

I remember saying that if an animal was in that much pain, it would be put down! I think at one point I even asked for a general anesthetic!

By the time I was taken to theatre for my c section, I'd been in labour for 30 hours and was exhausted. Once that spinal block went in, I remember thinking all women should have an epi, why go through all that pain when they don't need to? But that was a very ignorant point of view as I had only experienced 'my labour', how can I comment on everyone else's experience? my best friend had a really easy, short, non complicated delivery and managed with no pain relief. She would never tell me 'I could have coped without intervention' because she didn't know what I went through.

Why do we have to argue about this? Where's the sisterhood? We all did a great job, who cares about the itty bitty details? xx

 

[Olly]

For mine, his head was out, so she did an episiotomy and shoved her hands inside, then broke his collarbone and yanked him out... forceps wouldn't have done anything and the episiotomy was useless.

I had the same thing but her collarbone wouldn't break. It was hell getting her out(she finally just popped after a good bit of him struggling with her) and she couldn't even use her left arm from where he was trying to break it and caused nerve damage ;-; She can use it now though. Scary stuff.

 

[mrs_park]

For mine, his head was out, so she did an episiotomy and shoved her hands inside, then broke his collarbone and yanked him out... forceps wouldn't have done anything and the episiotomy was useless.

I had the same thing but her collarbone wouldn't break. It was hell getting her out(she finally just popped after a good bit of him struggling with her) and she couldn't even use her left arm from where he was trying to break it and caused nerve damage ;-; She can use it now though. Scary stuff.

How terrifying!!

 

[Hayley90]

i consider a natural birth to be childbirth full stop.

Growing a child, and giving birth is what a womans body is built to do, so as far as im concerned, if you have carried your child within you and gave birth to it, you have done what nature intended.

I couldnt care less what drugs or cuts or instruments have to be used. I hate the term 'unnatural' when we all deserve so much more recognition rather than saying we did something 'artificially'

I had a ventouse birth with worn-off pethidine, i chewed on the g&a pump, and a local anaesthetic that hadnt kicked in yet, and im bloody proud of myself. Anyone tell me its 'unnatural', i invite them to try birthing a twisted 9lb+ baby the 'natural' way with no help!

I can tell you what the result would have been - almost certain death for both of us. Im proud of my ventouse and episiotomy thank you very much.

You should ALL be proud of youselves.

 

[M&S+Bump]

I've been avoiding this thread because my labour is still a very very sore point for me and it makes me cry to think about it, but I guess I'm just a complete masochist and can't resist!

Everybody's saying it shouldn't matter, or it doesn't matter, how the baby was born, just that they got here and everything is fine - but for some of us it DOES matter. I didn't go in with any set ideas (well, I didn't think I did, no birth plan or anything like that) but as soon as I set foot in the hospital door, all choice and freedom was stripped from me and it ended up exactly everything I'd been hoping to avoid. The doctors didn't consider my body capable of doing it, no matter how much I would have loved to have believed it.

Wednesday night to Sunday morning, unbearable agony, they refused me an epidural and any other drugs for that matter because I had signs of an infection and Joe's heart-rate was too low, ending in EMCS - most of it is a complete blur even with no drugs in my system because by the time it came to it, I hadn't slept for three nights (I managed to pass out on the Wednesday night for a couple of hours thanks to the TENS machine but after that - no way, Jose!) and was on some other planet, but I remember very clearly being told it was time for section - my response was 'thank f**k, does that mean I can have some drugs now??' The spinal going in and cancelling out that last contraction was a bigger relief than even seeing the baby. For the last few hours I was actually convinced I was going to die and would have welcomed it as a blessed release.

Lots of people have told me I need to get over it and I should just be thankful I have a healthy baby (eventually, after a stay in NICU and a load of antibiotics) but every time someone says that, it just makes me feel like I'm completely over-reacting and makes me feel like more of a failure cos not only could I not give birth 'normally' or 'naturally' (he was back to back, not pressing down on the cervix to make it dilate and would probably have died without the intervention) but I'm not able to deal with my experience either. It's a big reason I still feel as crap as I do, and why it took so long to 'bond' (still a work in progress).

The general consensus is that 'natural' birth is something to be applauded and celebrated - I saw a nappy and t-shirt set the other day that had 'Born At Home' on the front with the birth-date. As lovely as it was, and as much as obviously that mother should be proud and allowed to show off as much as they like, I must admit I was left wondering where my 'I Was Cut Out With A Scalpel' matching set was. The closest I've ever seen was a t-shirt that read 'I tore my mummy a new one' which was generally considered to be in 'bad taste' and 'disgusting' by the posters on that particular thread.

So natural birth is something to be proud of, but a bad experience should be ignored, got over and not talked about, because it's 'in bad taste' and makes people who had a good experience feel bad? That's the impression I get (on this board quite frequently, but also everywhere else, midwives, doctors, baby groups)

Anyways. To answer the original question. I avoid the terminology 'natural', 'normal' etc (I also refuse to call cloth nappies 'real' nappies) because it grates on me, but I would consider a vaginal birth to be a 'natural' one and a c-section not.

 

[aliss]

For mine, his head was out, so she did an episiotomy and shoved her hands inside, then broke his collarbone and yanked him out... forceps wouldn't have done anything and the episiotomy was useless.

I had the same thing but her collarbone wouldn't break. It was hell getting her out(she finally just popped after a good bit of him struggling with her) and she couldn't even use her left arm from where he was trying to break it and caused nerve damage ;-; She can use it now though. Scary stuff.

How terrifying!!

That's awful Olly, sorry to hear that the break did not work although thank god it came out for her before it was too late (even with the erb's palsy, I assume?).

 

[dani_tinks]

On my notes it said a natural birth. I did have some drugs to help with the pain but I didnt need assistance i.e forceps.

 

[mystika802]

If epi's were that bad they wouldnt give them. I get to talk from both points, with my first I was induced, it came fast and hard and an epidural was the best thing EVER! I was 115lbs before having him and he was 10lbs
For my second I didnt NEED the epi, I had an all natural birth, and he was only 8lbs 3oz.
Ill tell you though, my first labor was WAY worse pain wise, so not only is every person different, so is every labor and delivery. I dont think anyone can say whats best or not and honestly, as long as we have healthy happy babies, what does it matter how they got here? I havent read all the posts since almost everything turns into an argument in here but because I have had both birth types and 2 totally different labors I thoughts I'd say that its not always the same.
Epidurals are the best invention ever if you ask me even though I loved the experience of having a natural no pain relief birth, epidurals are amazing! And lets be honest, they wouldnt be giving them if they drugged the baby....
Actually, my first, with epidural had WAY less problems after birth than my second did without the epi!

 

[Nut_Shake]

Why do people take things so literally lol I didnt mean "you" as in directed at anyone in particular, I meant the general public the majority of people WILL take medication when they have a headache or in pain....good grief....

So i should of just kept my mouth shut and let you assume everyone is drugged up all the time because of this that and the other? Because im not in the 'majority' im not allowed to say my piece?

I only used gas and air because it has no effect on the baby, but i wasnt going to drug my baby with an epi to make my labour easier for myself when i knew i could cope without it.

Wow this thread has turned nasty.

Just FYI i didnt "drug" my baby up with a epi seeing as it doesnt pass the placenta.

I hope for a homebirth this time with no pain relief that doesnt make me better then people who use pain relief.

I wasnt being nasty at all

that reads as pretty nasty and is actually wrong anyway.

I think that epidurals shouldnt be so easily offered and more natural pain relief encouraged like water or different positions but surely if a mum is really struggling its better for her to get pain relief then start freaking out.

I didnt realise until reading this thread that there was this silly competition about who did and didnt use pain relief. Its pretty sad really.

Maybe you should read the rest of the sentance. i knew i could cope without it
How is saying I could cope being nasty?!

I also never said it was a compitition!

And yes it does cross the placenta.

Isn't it nice when people word their opinions sensitively and warmly and don't try to offend or upset other women who had epidurals, whether they chose to have one or not... ? Maybe its an art you should try to learn bathbabe.

Anyway, I'm off to tend to my epidural 'drugged up' babies now

 

[peanut56]

I was induced AND had an epidural. Do I regret either? No. The induction potentially saved my life (high BP) and the epidural gave me relief from agonizing back contractions.
I understand that having a natural labour is something a lot of women want (myself included) and it's great when they can get it. But we're all mothers, we all birthed beautiful babies, and that is what matters. If someone (generally speaking, not aimed at anyone in particular) wants to look down on me because I had pain relief, then go for it. I couldn't care less what anyone thinks.
Just my opinion.

 

[Mya209]

My birth experence was also extreemly painful and I still find it very traumatic to remember! Some of the girls on here have had worse experiences than mine and I can't imagine how you all coped!
The idea that there are 'natural' births (whether we like it or not 'natural' does imply 'best' to some people) just puts added pressure on those of us that have had horrendous birth experiences. I managed to avoid the epi but I was begging for pain releaf, (there was nothing much they could give me). I'm not a weak person, I'm strong, stuborn and have a high pain threshhold and I thought I was going to die it hurt so much! I screamed so loud it made my OHs ears ring!

 

[tristansmum]

I've been avoiding this thread because my labour is still a very very sore point for me and it makes me cry to think about it, but I guess I'm just a complete masochist and can't resist!

Everybody's saying it shouldn't matter, or it doesn't matter, how the baby was born, just that they got here and everything is fine - but for some of us it DOES matter. I didn't go in with any set ideas (well, I didn't think I did, no birth plan or anything like that) but as soon as I set foot in the hospital door, all choice and freedom was stripped from me and it ended up exactly everything I'd been hoping to avoid. The doctors didn't consider my body capable of doing it, no matter how much I would have loved to have believed it.

Wednesday night to Sunday morning, unbearable agony, they refused me an epidural and any other drugs for that matter because I had signs of an infection and Joe's heart-rate was too low, ending in EMCS - most of it is a complete blur even with no drugs in my system because by the time it came to it, I hadn't slept for three nights (I managed to pass out on the Wednesday night for a couple of hours thanks to the TENS machine but after that - no way, Jose!) and was on some other planet, but I remember very clearly being told it was time for section - my response was 'thank f**k, does that mean I can have some drugs now??' The spinal going in and cancelling out that last contraction was a bigger relief than even seeing the baby. For the last few hours I was actually convinced I was going to die and would have welcomed it as a blessed release.

Lots of people have told me I need to get over it and I should just be thankful I have a healthy baby (eventually, after a stay in NICU and a load of antibiotics) but every time someone says that, it just makes me feel like I'm completely over-reacting and makes me feel like more of a failure cos not only could I not give birth 'normally' or 'naturally' (he was back to back, not pressing down on the cervix to make it dilate and would probably have died without the intervention) but I'm not able to deal with my experience either. It's a big reason I still feel as crap as I do, and why it took so long to 'bond' (still a work in progress).

The general consensus is that 'natural' birth is something to be applauded and celebrated - I saw a nappy and t-shirt set the other day that had 'Born At Home' on the front with the birth-date. As lovely as it was, and as much as obviously that mother should be proud and allowed to show off as much as they like, I must admit I was left wondering where my 'I Was Cut Out With A Scalpel' matching set was. The closest I've ever seen was a t-shirt that read 'I tore my mummy a new one' which was generally considered to be in 'bad taste' and 'disgusting' by the posters on that particular thread.

So natural birth is something to be proud of, but a bad experience should be ignored, got over and not talked about, because it's 'in bad taste' and makes people who had a good experience feel bad? That's the impression I get (on this board quite frequently, but also everywhere else, midwives, doctors, baby groups)

Anyways. To answer the original question. I avoid the terminology 'natural', 'normal' etc (I also refuse to call cloth nappies 'real' nappies) because it grates on me, but I would consider a vaginal birth to be a 'natural' one and a c-section not.

i know what you mean. i also had EMCS and people who have not had one say all that matters is your baby is healthy. Now i am so happy my baby is here and without EMCS we both would have died i think BUT it still hurts to think about. took me about 3 months to feel romotely OK about my c section. now almost 8 months on i'm at peace with it. i still feel sad i didn't get a "natural" birth but i know i can't live in the past. i can't change it now.

give yourself time to heal. xxxxx

 

[M&S+Bump]

I've got an appointment to go and talk it through with the consultant so I'm hoping that will help to start laying the whole thing to rest. Maybe once they tell me there really was no other way and that there was nothing I could've done to prevent it, it'll be easier - I've heard it from the health visitor but I need to hear it from someone who was actually there before I can believe it, I think. On a good day I can look on the bright side - at least my piles didn't get any worse and I was lucky enough not to dilate past 5cm - apparently the doctor on duty that morning is particularly keen on the forceps that go right up into your pelvis to turn the baby and then pull them out so if I'd got to 10cm they'd have tried those!

Crossing my fingers that next time round I'll have an easier time - I want to try for a vbac but if they think I'm going in there and getting strapped to a monitor again they've got another thing coming. At least I know they can't give me any synto!

I'm now seriously considering getting a nappy and t-shirt with 'I came out the sunroof and it was f-ing horrendous' or something similar made up

Sorry to hijack your thread OP

 

[kmac625]

Why do people take things so literally lol I didnt mean "you" as in directed at anyone in particular, I meant the general public the majority of people WILL take medication when they have a headache or in pain....good grief....

So i should of just kept my mouth shut and let you assume everyone is drugged up all the time because of this that and the other? Because im not in the 'majority' im not allowed to say my piece?

I only used gas and air because it has no effect on the baby, but i wasnt going to drug my baby with an epi to make my labour easier for myself when i knew i could cope without it.

I'm just curious, would you have considered an epidural if gas and air hadn't been available? I would have loved the option to try g&a before getting my epi (though ultimately would've needed the epi anyways for my emcs) but it's not an option here. Neither is pethidine as far as I know. We can get an epi or nothing at all.