,

[aragornlover8]

I'd say that a "natural" birth is one that is vaginal and with minimal intervention, as vague as that sounds. I realize this thread has kind of opened a can of worms and admittedly haven't read all of it. However, I'd like to add that epidurals are fine and safe as long as they are administered correctly. Women should not feel bad for having to use them or feel that their birth was any less special. That being said, I don't think that women who have births naturally are doing it to be martyrs or to hold their success over anyone else's head. Birth is an extremely empowering experience for all women.

I ended up having a c-section after two days of no progress. I wanted a natural birth more than anything else. It took me a little while to bond with my baby successfully, and a lot of that had to do with how my labor went. I was on magnesium sulfate because I was a seizure risk, which caused her to be really sleepy and lethargic for the first few days. And as much as I hate to admit it, I still feel a little guilty when I remember how I felt when they showed me Alex and I had to force myself to feel anything. I was exhausted and felt a little hollow, as nothing had gone according to plan.

Now, though, I see her in her crib and smiling up at me, and I feel all of the love in the world. My birth experience did not go as planned at all, not natural in the slightest, but she's here, and I can now look back on that first look we shared with a lot of pride.

Sorry if that was sappy...

 

[Nessicle]

bathbabe it did come across quite bitter and nasty - I put "lol" in my sentence trying to lighten the mood a little. You can come across as quite blunt sometimes, we have to be careful how things are worded on forums - sometimes a smiley or an exclamation mark can go a long way - not just a blunt full stop....

 

[mystika802]

I wasnt offered anything but epidural with either......

 

[kmac625]

Not that an epi can't make babies sleepy when they're born, but it didn't in my case. In fact, all of the nurses kept coming into our room to see Clara because no one could believe how alert she was at a few hours old. Her nickname in the hospital was Perky Perkins.

 

[tristansmum]

I've got an appointment to go and talk it through with the consultant so I'm hoping that will help to start laying the whole thing to rest. Maybe once they tell me there really was no other way and that there was nothing I could've done to prevent it, it'll be easier - I've heard it from the health visitor but I need to hear it from someone who was actually there before I can believe it, I think. On a good day I can look on the bright side - at least my piles didn't get any worse and I was lucky enough not to dilate past 5cm - apparently the doctor on duty that morning is particularly keen on the forceps that go right up into your pelvis to turn the baby and then pull them out so if I'd got to 10cm they'd have tried those!

Crossing my fingers that next time round I'll have an easier time - I want to try for a vbac but if they think I'm going in there and getting strapped to a monitor again they've got another thing coming. At least I know they can't give me any synto!

I'm now seriously considering getting a nappy and t-shirt with 'I came out the sunroof and it was f-ing horrendous' or something similar made up

Sorry to hijack your thread OP

yeah i got the lovely forcepts LOL. Did nothing and still had EMCS but there you go

i hope the talk helps you. i thought about going to do the same. i was really obsessing over the whle thing for a while but i'm ok now and i'd rather not go back over it now. i think it will help you though. I also want a vbac next time. i'm going to be refusing constant monitoring unless the baby shows any distress as i do feel that being on CTG the whole time was not helpful for me. xxxxx

 

[Nessicle]

Why do people take things so literally lol I didnt mean "you" as in directed at anyone in particular, I meant the general public the majority of people WILL take medication when they have a headache or in pain....good grief....

So i should of just kept my mouth shut and let you assume everyone is drugged up all the time because of this that and the other? Because im not in the 'majority' im not allowed to say my piece?

I only used gas and air because it has no effect on the baby, but i wasnt going to drug my baby with an epi to make my labour easier for myself when i knew i could cope without it.

Why do people take things so literally lol I didnt mean "you" as in directed at anyone in particular, I meant the general public the majority of people WILL take medication when they have a headache or in pain....good grief....

So i should of just kept my mouth shut and let you assume everyone is drugged up all the time because of this that and the other? Because im not in the 'majority' im not allowed to say my piece?

I only used gas and air because it has no effect on the baby, but i wasnt going to drug my baby with an epi to make my labour easier for myself when i knew i could cope without it.

Wow this thread has turned nasty.

Just FYI i didnt "drug" my baby up with a epi seeing as it doesnt pass the placenta.

I hope for a homebirth this time with no pain relief that doesnt make me better then people who use pain relief.

I've been avoiding this thread because my labour is still a very very sore point for me and it makes me cry to think about it, but I guess I'm just a complete masochist and can't resist!

Everybody's saying it shouldn't matter, or it doesn't matter, how the baby was born, just that they got here and everything is fine - but for some of us it DOES matter. I didn't go in with any set ideas (well, I didn't think I did, no birth plan or anything like that) but as soon as I set foot in the hospital door, all choice and freedom was stripped from me and it ended up exactly everything I'd been hoping to avoid. The doctors didn't consider my body capable of doing it, no matter how much I would have loved to have believed it.

Wednesday night to Sunday morning, unbearable agony, they refused me an epidural and any other drugs for that matter because I had signs of an infection and Joe's heart-rate was too low, ending in EMCS - most of it is a complete blur even with no drugs in my system because by the time it came to it, I hadn't slept for three nights (I managed to pass out on the Wednesday night for a couple of hours thanks to the TENS machine but after that - no way, Jose!) and was on some other planet, but I remember very clearly being told it was time for section - my response was 'thank f**k, does that mean I can have some drugs now??' The spinal going in and cancelling out that last contraction was a bigger relief than even seeing the baby. For the last few hours I was actually convinced I was going to die and would have welcomed it as a blessed release.

Lots of people have told me I need to get over it and I should just be thankful I have a healthy baby (eventually, after a stay in NICU and a load of antibiotics) but every time someone says that, it just makes me feel like I'm completely over-reacting and makes me feel like more of a failure cos not only could I not give birth 'normally' or 'naturally' (he was back to back, not pressing down on the cervix to make it dilate and would probably have died without the intervention) but I'm not able to deal with my experience either. It's a big reason I still feel as crap as I do, and why it took so long to 'bond' (still a work in progress).

The general consensus is that 'natural' birth is something to be applauded and celebrated - I saw a nappy and t-shirt set the other day that had 'Born At Home' on the front with the birth-date. As lovely as it was, and as much as obviously that mother should be proud and allowed to show off as much as they like, I must admit I was left wondering where my 'I Was Cut Out With A Scalpel' matching set was. The closest I've ever seen was a t-shirt that read 'I tore my mummy a new one' which was generally considered to be in 'bad taste' and 'disgusting' by the posters on that particular thread.

So natural birth is something to be proud of, but a bad experience should be ignored, got over and not talked about, because it's 'in bad taste' and makes people who had a good experience feel bad? That's the impression I get (on this board quite frequently, but also everywhere else, midwives, doctors, baby groups)

Anyways. To answer the original question. I avoid the terminology 'natural', 'normal' etc (I also refuse to call cloth nappies 'real' nappies) because it grates on me, but I would consider a vaginal birth to be a 'natural' one and a c-section not.

Well put hun I'm so sick of people saying "all that matters is they got here safe" actually no it isnt all that matters - doesnt my PND matter? The large amount of blood I lost? The fact my body went through so much it failed to feed my baby? All the tears I cried in agony I couldnt get myself dressed for weeks? Couldnt take a bath cos of my stitches then my post surgery infection for fear of it splitting open?

Really gets my goat Ava is 5 and a half months and I'm still very bitter about it, very jealous of anyone who got a "natural" delivery xxx

 

[peanut56]

Not that an epi can't make babies sleepy when they're born, but it didn't in my case. In fact, all of the nurses kept coming into our room to see Clara because no one could believe how alert she was at a few hours old. Her nickname in the hospital was Perky Perkins.

My baby didn't come out sleepy either. She came out swingin'. The first thing she did was hit me in the face, and then fish hooked DH. The nurses called her the "feisty one" while we were in the hospital.
I don't understand why people need to be rude about things like pain relief. Or anything, really!

 

[mystika802]

its funny that some might say that epi has an effect on the baby but what about the distress the mother is in during labor?? This also has negative effects...so if you really want to get into it, tell me which is worse......
An epi makes for a calm and more enjoyable birthing experience for some, surely this must be better for the baby. I screamed through my labor with Charlie, wanted an epi that didnt work and baby was in the NICU for a week after......theres no way that was better for him than my calm labor with my first (epi)
Either way, they are both happy and healthy now
I think its funny how easy people are to judge others and how rudely they put things.

 

[Nessicle]

Not that an epi can't make babies sleepy when they're born, but it didn't in my case. In fact, all of the nurses kept coming into our room to see Clara because no one could believe how alert she was at a few hours old. Her nickname in the hospital was Perky Perkins.

Dont think Ava slept more than 12 hours the 4 days were were in hospital lol all the other babies born "naturally" slept all the time lol Ava was alert and bright eyed the minute she was born looking round taking everything in it was so sweet she just kept staring at me x

 

[pinkie77]

Stupid iphone lol, posted too soon again!

I'd only consider an epi if it looked likely that a c-section was necessary. But then I was accused of being selfish and not putting my daughters safety first when I told friends I wanted a homebirth. I think the only definate is that Whatever you do and however you do it someone will tell you you're wrong!

 

[M&S+Bump]

I've got an appointment to go and talk it through with the consultant so I'm hoping that will help to start laying the whole thing to rest. Maybe once they tell me there really was no other way and that there was nothing I could've done to prevent it, it'll be easier - I've heard it from the health visitor but I need to hear it from someone who was actually there before I can believe it, I think. On a good day I can look on the bright side - at least my piles didn't get any worse and I was lucky enough not to dilate past 5cm - apparently the doctor on duty that morning is particularly keen on the forceps that go right up into your pelvis to turn the baby and then pull them out so if I'd got to 10cm they'd have tried those!

Crossing my fingers that next time round I'll have an easier time - I want to try for a vbac but if they think I'm going in there and getting strapped to a monitor again they've got another thing coming. At least I know they can't give me any synto!

I'm now seriously considering getting a nappy and t-shirt with 'I came out the sunroof and it was f-ing horrendous' or something similar made up

Sorry to hijack your thread OP

yeah i got the lovely forcepts LOL. Did nothing and still had EMCS but there you go

i hope the talk helps you. i thought about going to do the same. i was really obsessing over the whle thing for a while but i'm ok now and i'd rather not go back over it now. i think it will help you though. I also want a vbac next time. i'm going to be refusing constant monitoring unless the baby shows any distress as i do feel that being on CTG the whole time was not helpful for me. xxxxx

I blame being made to lie on my back and side with the monitor for my descent into the 7th circle of hell - I was coping until then and lying down was just about the worst position I could've been in, painwise. I can accept that they were worried and I needed to be monitored but I think I could've been monitored just as easily standing up at the side of the bed or even sitting on the edge of it - these are the sort of points I'll be raising with the doctor.

My birth was anything but empowering, unfortunately. I was there and I was the one with the baby physically inside me, but other than that, I got sod all say or part in the process. I think that's one of the things that shocked me most of all, how little choice I really had when it came down to it (I'd been to NCT classes - I was expecting what they promised me, a say in things! )

 

[v2007]

Assisted with Mollie.

Gas and Air for Taylor.

Sunroof for Katie.

As long as they are delivered screaming then why does it matter how they arrived.

V xxx

 

[Nessicle]

Stupid iphone lol, posted too soon again!

I'd only consider an epi if it looked likely that a c-section was necessary. But then I was accused of being selfish and not putting my daughters safety first when I told friends I wanted a homebirth. I think the only definate is that Whatever you do and however you do it someone will tell you you're wrong!

Thats not nice to be told that - its every womans right to at least try for the birth they want if they have a specific birth plan!

For me I just went in with an open mind - good job I did lol after what happened I had every drug going lol, I did 12 hours with G&A and a shot of diamorphine after that and no sleep for 36 hours I was so exhausted (my waters went at 12.45am and had only been in bed 2 hours so had gone all the following day too with no sleep). It was such a relief to get the epi after that long was only 3-4cm dilated too and they wanted to put me on the syntocinon so an epi was definitely on the cards lol!

I had to have G&A with the epi and topped the epi up every 4 hours as my cervix wouldnt dilate it was absolute agony everytime they sped up the syntocinon! 31 hours after going in to labour she was finally delivered by c section after failed forceps didnt even get to hold her for a good 2 hours when she was born and Mark had nearly passed out I suffered terribly after her birth cried constantly when I came on here and saw birth stories that were lovely xx

 

[M&S+Bump]

Well put hun I'm so sick of people saying "all that matters is they got here safe" actually no it isnt all that matters - doesnt my PND matter? The large amount of blood I lost? The fact my body went through so much it failed to feed my baby? All the tears I cried in agony I couldnt get myself dressed for weeks? Couldnt take a bath cos of my stitches then my post surgery infection for fear of it splitting open?

Really gets my goat Ava is 5 and a half months and I'm still very bitter about it, very jealous of anyone who got a "natural" delivery xxx

to you as well.

Indeed. It DOES matter, if it affected/affects you then of course it matters and people be-littling your experience or saying you should get over it just makes you feel worse.

I'm bitter as hell and jealous too. I feel completely cheated and as if I failed, and consequently it's affecting the way I am day to day now - I was such a rubbish mother I couldn't even give birth which is what women have been doing for millenia and is what we're designed to do, blah blah blah - so I must be rubbish at this whole game, I can't stop my baby crying or make him sleep and I get so angry with him I shout back when he shouts at me. All completely mental of course, and in my head - but knowing that doesn't make it any easier to deal with.

 

[bathbabe]

Love how im the bad guy because I didnt want an epi for my labour. I said I didnt need an epi. And I didnt want anything that was going to effect my baby

I couldnt care less what you did during your labours, you coped with them in your own ways. Did i say they were evil? Bad? Terrible? No, just that it wasnt for me

And whoever asked if i would of had an epi if gas and air wasnt available, no i probally wouldnt of. And while in labour the thought never entered my head.

lol

Enough smilies and 'lol'?

 

[AP]

I find it sad that theres so much pressure on mums to do things a certain way when it comes to birth, and then later feel bitter and regretful after birth. (not saying its wrong to feel that way though!)

I seriously don't care how the girls got here, they are safe and well now. I wouldn't have felt cheated either way with A, I felt more cheated out of pregnancy and the 3+ months I missed out on.Then I learnt I didn't miss a hell of a lot when T made it full term. Sometimes when you think you've been cheated out of something it's not the lovely thing you'd expect

 

[kmac625]

Love how im the bad guy because I didnt want an epi for my labour. I said I didnt need an epi. And I didnt want anything that was going to effect my baby

I couldnt care less what you did during your labours, you coped with them in your own ways. Did i say they were evil? Bad? Terrible? No, just that it wasnt for me

And whoever asked if i would of had an epi if gas and air wasnt available, no i probally wouldnt of. And while in labour the thought never entered my head.

lol

Enough smilies and 'lol'?

That was me, and I was asking because I was honestly curious. I would have loved to try g&a before getting my epi, but it isn't an option here. Also, you may not have directly said that epidurals are evil or bad, but you did say "i wasnt going to drug my baby with an epi to make my labour easier for myself when i knew i could cope without it.", which to me comes across as quite rude and does imply you think they are bad.

 

[Mrs Mayhem]

Wow, so this thread has stirred up some really nasty responses!!

Each persons birth is individual to them, we all make choices which are based on both ourselves and our babies. To say that someone is drugging their baby by having an epidural or that someone is not a strong enough woman because they had a c-section is just foul.
Many of us reflect on our births and find that we are still pained by them due to the sheer amount of trauma presented during the experience.

I would have loved a 'natural' birth. In my dream world I would have had a lovely water birth and all would have been lovely. As it happened, nature had other plans for me. she was 13 days late when they induced me. Nothing on day 13, nothing on day 14. By day 15, I was in enormous amounts of pain due to the position which they made me lay in, yes, I had an epidural, which wore off and left me in even more pain, so yes, I had a top up. My daughters heartbeat was dropping and cutting out completely each time I had a contraction and I was rushed in for an emergency c-section. I was very poorly afterwards, but all that mattered to me was that my daughter was well.

To express your opinion in a way which leads people to believe that you are accusing them of doing harm to your child or that you are just simply a crap child bearer is rude, offensive and downright out of order.

 

[bathbabe]

Love how im the bad guy because I didnt want an epi for my labour. I said I didnt need an epi. And I didnt want anything that was going to effect my baby

I couldnt care less what you did during your labours, you coped with them in your own ways. Did i say they were evil? Bad? Terrible? No, just that it wasnt for me

And whoever asked if i would of had an epi if gas and air wasnt available, no i probally wouldnt of. And while in labour the thought never entered my head.

lol

Enough smilies and 'lol'?

That was me, and I was asking because I was honestly curious. I would have loved to try g&a before getting my epi, but it isn't an option here. Also, you may not have directly said that epidurals are evil or bad, but you did say "i wasnt going to drug my baby with an epi to make my labour easier for myself when i knew i could cope without it.", which to me comes across as quite rude and does imply you think they are bad.

But i said I didnt need one! Why is no one getting this? I knew i could cope without it
Iv never said i would never ever concider an epi in future labours, but in the labour i had i didnt need one, so i didnt have one. Sure i could of said 'i want an epi' but i didnt feel the need!

I was 3cm when admitted, too early for them to give me one in my hospital, but 2hours later i started to push, so i didnt have time anyway.
Maybe if my labour was days and days long id of had one but i will never know now will i?

Sorry if anyone/everyone has been offended by my post/s
Its too hard to put an emotion to text over the internet

 

[kmac625]

I understand you could cope and that's why you didn't feel the need for one. It's the way you said you didn't want to drug your baby that bothered me. It can't help but make some of us feel bad for getting epi's even though we may not have had any other options (like needing an emcs). I think it was just a bad choice of words is all. I appreciate your apology and that you may not have meant to offend anyone, and yes, emotion/intentions/meaning are quite easily misinterpreted online which is why I think people have gotten upset.