Agnostic/Atheist parents - religious family members talking to LO about god?

[Noodlebear]

I'd be very angry about this, if he seemed to understand I'd probably just say 'that's what nanny believes but you don't have to if you don't want to' etc. I wouldn't ever tell him god wasn't real like it was fact either, it's up to him what he thinks. Most kids seem to have atleast a brief period of believing in it (I know I did). If he asked me he'd hear my strong opinion on how irrational I personally think it is though.

 

[Dragonfly]

My mum is like this too, she thinks the devil will take my children because I didn't christen them. But all my family just took nothing to do with me because they couldn't understand why I didn't christen. Being atheist is no reason apparently. So saves me having to undo stuff there and my partners family is mixed religions but dont go to mass. Apart from one of them who at least asked permission once if some time she could show my sons the church near her. Hasnt happened yet. I had no choice but to send my oldest who is in school to a catholic school. We dont have schools for atheists lol just that or a mixed religion one. Evert one goes with the flow and christens for schools here. I dont do that, And things can get difficult trying to explain to my son when he comes home with prayer home work I ignore. And it will get harder too as next year they will be preparing for conformation and holy communion and my son will have nothing to do and is asking for a new name as hes been told about confirmation already.

 

[the why bird]

Last year, Pope Francis said that people of any belief - even atheists - would still go to heaven if they did good in their lifetime. So her concerns about you and Micah going to purgatory/hell are out of date even within Catholicism.

That said, I don't know how I would handle it. I would be frustrated if someone was talking to my child about angels as though it were fact, but then again, some people talk about santa like that too. I suppose it depends how often this comes up and whether she is just telling the stories (which could have cultural value) or whether she is trying to pressure him into behaving a certain way or converting.

I was raised by atheist parents, but my paternal grandparents were very religious. I remember saying prayers before meals at their house and my Gran singing hymns to soothe me. Their home has all sorts of religious quotes as decoration and they always say, 'goodbye, god bless'. Despite this, I don't remember ever feeling any conflict about it as a child. They never shamed me or criticized my parents for not following their faith, and that I think was the important thing. I just accepted it was who they were, and how things were done at their home. We also said prayers and sung hymns at school (like most British school children I think). I think your approach of 'some people believe' and being open to more conversations if he has questions when he's older is all you need to do. Kids are very flexible and accepting of people having different views.

That said, I WOULD be angry if she was trying to scare or bully him into declaring himself catholic. No one tells my baby he's going to hell.

 

[Palestrina]

I wouldn't be bothered by it personally. I grew up with very religious grandparents and semi-religious parents, baptized and all, and it has never stopped me from pursuing my own spiritual beliefs which lay somewhere between being culturally greek orthodox, spiritually pagan, and philosophically buddhist hehe! I feel enriched by all religions and discard the numerous bits that don't jive with me (like the patriarchy BS and the fear of damnation bit).

If I were in your position I would approach your MIL and say "I respect your beliefs and I hope LO will learn from you and bond with you in a special way. You're grandma and you can teach him things that I can't. I don't mind if you teach him about going to church and all the things you believe in but I don't want him to become freightened of hell and purgatory and satan so naturally I will intervene if I think you're scaring him."

At the end of the day my son will have his own opinion when he grows up and will need numerous views to be able to come to his own decisions. I think it's just as wrong to force a child not to be religious as it is to force him to be religious.

 

[londonangel]

I'd be really unhappy about that. My husband and I are both atheists. My mother-in-law is a vicar and my mother is a regular church-goer but neither would dream of trying to force us to christen Eleanor or teach her that 'God exists' as fact, for example. I have no problem with Eleanor learning about religion and making her own choice when she's older - similar to you with your little one - but as you say, you don't want your child confused by someone presenting things to him that you disagree with as fact! I would speak to her (or ask your OH to speak to her) and politely request that she not discuss religion with your little one as you feel he is really too young to understand.

 

[sparkle_1979]

I wouldn't allow the constant talking about religion. It's ok to share what she believes but it has to be clear this is what she believes and it's ok if he doesn't

Ow regarding the being baptised. That's a difficult one, I think if someone believes that their loved one is pretty much doomed that must be very hard for her ... If we had a good relationship and I really cared for her I would consider getting my child baptised to ease the worry but that would be it, I wouldn't allow them to attend church x

 

[Mummy Bean]

My parents are really into the church. So was I until I turned 18 when I left. They know why I left the church and respect my decision.

When I had my son I had a frank conversation with my mum stating she could teach them the bible but only as story and it would be left up to the boys to decide if they believed it as fact when they get older. Thankfully she agreed and she always asks if she can take them to a church event.

 

[A_Z]

I think you're handling it well by saying "some people believe..." My grandparents, with whom I spent a great deal of time, were both religious and exposed me to religion a fair amount (though they never proselytized), and I'm not religious at all.

My mom read me stories from a lot of different religious backgrounds when I was growing up, and it all ended up just sounding like fables to me. I knew that some people believed one thing, and some another thing, and some people didn't believe any of them.

I wouldn't shy away from reading some of the old testament (the age appropriate parts, of course) to him. Add in some Greek mythology, Brothers Grimm, Aesop's fables, etc. Lots of wonderful stories for kids of different ages.

 

[Rags]

My personal response to Ds questioning is the 'some people believe.... I believe....' Lets face it, all of the major religions have some fabulouse stories which I know I enjoyed hearing when I was growing up so I let my sister (Catholic) tell him the bible stories. When it first happened I was a little miffed though until I realised that I spent loads of time telling him dragon stories and taking him on woodland walks fairy spotting, he will decide himself over time what is real or not.
A few years ago when my friend, a non church going Catholic, tried to have her daughter baptised she was told by the priest that she must attend mass weekly for a few months before he would agree to do it. She voiced her concern that if her daughter died mean time she would spend eternity in limbo (Catholic teaching when she'd be growing up) the priest informed her that they don't teach that any more, it wasn't popular! Would you be able to speak with your mils priest and find out if he would speak with her for you?

 

[Racheldigger]

I haven't got any solutions, but I do sympathise most heartily. Somehow Rowan has completely avoided the matter with her devoutly Methodist grandparents, but we have now run head-on into it at school. I know that Christian religious instruction is compulsory for all state schools, but I find it a bit much when, in a term in which the special study theme is prehistory, Rowan comes home telling me that the human race began when God made a man and a woman. I'm a Nordic pagan myself, so OH and myself have been raising Rowan completely agnostic till she's able to make up her own mind, though I have got 'Tales of the Norse Gods and Heroes' off the bookshelf when she's asked me why there's an eight-legged horse on Mummy's necklace. The idea posted above of speaking to Mum-in-law's priest sounds like a good one: priests can very often be more tolerant and enlightened than their congregations.

 

[emyandpotato]

I haven't got any solutions, but I do sympathise most heartily. Somehow Rowan has completely avoided the matter with her devoutly Methodist grandparents, but we have now run head-on into it at school. I know that Christian religious instruction is compulsory for all state schools, but I find it a bit much when, in a term in which the special study theme is prehistory, Rowan comes home telling me that the human race began when God made a man and a woman. I'm a Nordic pagan myself, so OH and myself have been raising Rowan completely agnostic till she's able to make up her own mind, though I have got 'Tales of the Norse Gods and Heroes' off the bookshelf when she's asked me why there's an eight-legged horse on Mummy's necklace. The idea posted above of speaking to Mum-in-law's priest sounds like a good one: priests can very often be more tolerant and enlightened than their congregations.

Wait, what? No it isn't! Religious education is compulsory (but you can opt out) but that covers all main religions! They are certainly not meant to take a religious viewpoint unless they are a Christian school! I would be furious at this.

 

[Dragonfly]

You can opt out here in religious schools, some parents dont have a choice but to send their kids to them. Only thing is they told me they have no one to supervise my child during that time and they incorporate religion all day. Which they lied to me and said they didnt do religion till p3 yet my sons knows about god and gets prayer home work. I would home school if I could.

 

[MumToEva]

Haven't read the other responses, but I'm agnostic, my husband is lapsed Christain, and both our families are Christain. At the minute there is no discussion because we live quite a bit away from both families, so the kids don't go to church as we don't go to church. Nor are they christened - both our families are Protestant so what they do is a bit different, in that the parents promise in front of the church that they will bring the child up in the ways of the church. Neither of our families would want us to make a promise like that unless we intended keeping it, so there was never any aggro about it.

We intend moving beside my family I another year or so, and I know my family will want us that least take the kids to Sunday school, and ideally attend church ourselves. I will probably end up going sometimes, as I'm not atheist, so I have no strong objection to going to church - in fact I like the community spirit that attending a church brings, and having grown up with that myself I think it would be nice to give my kids that experience too. I don't object to either of our parents talking to the kids about God either, but they will be very much allowed to make up their own minds as they get older.

I don't know what I would do about the christening thing though. I know it's different in the catholic religion, as babies who aren't christened are supposed to go to Purgatory if they die if I'm not mistaken, so I can see how your MIL worries about this a lot. I think I would probably just let her take LO to her church and get baptised so that she feels better about it, as what harm will it do really? But if that's not what you want then your MIL is just going to have to lump it - you are the mummy!

 

[modified]

I wouldn't be impressed at all. Just the same as the other way round, I'd be furious if I was religious and someone was telling my child that God didn't exist. It's just not their place and is overstepping the boundaries. I most definitely would not allow anyone to take my child and have them baptised to appease their own mind.

I'm sorry I don't have any advice - I haven't spoken to my MIL in 6 months and my own mum, we have the relationship where I could just outright tell her to stop. I haven't read the entire thread but I'm hoping there are tons of wise words in them!

In regards to RE in school, at my high school every religion and belief was touched on, including evolution. Despite being completely non-religious, it was one of my favourite lessons - I found it fascinating.

 

[sparkle_1979]

Because I'm a non believer it really wouldn't bother me if we got our children baptised. I can't imagine how upsetting it must be if you do feel that a child you love is going to go to hell...if I could stop someone in my family worrying then I'd have to consider it seriously as it wouldn't harm the child and make no difference to us
It must be awful if you believe that

Preaching is different, no way

 

[staralfur]

Because I'm a non believer it really wouldn't bother me if we got our children baptised. I can't imagine how upsetting it must be if you do feel that a child you love is going to go to hell...if I could stop someone in my family worrying then I'd have to consider it seriously as it wouldn't harm the child and make no difference to us
It must be awful if you believe that

Preaching is different, no way

Isn't it kind of disrespectful to get your child baptized with no intention of bringing them up with those beliefs?

It's also a bit of a slippery slope, if you're agreeing to do something outside of your beliefs to appease someone, then they'll probably run with it.

 

[emyandpotato]

Because I'm a non believer it really wouldn't bother me if we got our children baptised. I can't imagine how upsetting it must be if you do feel that a child you love is going to go to hell...if I could stop someone in my family worrying then I'd have to consider it seriously as it wouldn't harm the child and make no difference to us
It must be awful if you believe that

Preaching is different, no way

Isn't it kind of disrespectful to get your child baptized with no intention of bringing them up with those beliefs?

It's also a bit of a slippery slope, if you're agreeing to do something outside of your beliefs to appease someone, then they'll probably run with it.

I'd say Christening a child in to, for example, the Church of England is disrespectful. But in Catholicism it's different because they firmly belief (and I'd bet loads still do, despite anything the pope has said) that any child not cleansed of original sin by baptism is going to purgatory if they die, no ifs or buts. Catholics would probably tell you any innocent child who cannot themselves sin yet should be baptised because if anything happened to them it would be awful for them to end up in purgatory. So no, it isn't disrespectful. It's a really messed up theory but belief can be totally nonsensical and it doesn't make it any less real of a fear for those who believe it.

 

[AngelUK]

How can it be disrespectful when you do it out of love and respect for your believing family members? Mine know full well that this is where it stops and that I will not tolerate any kind of preaching to them.

 

[Dragonfly]

Haven't read the other responses, but I'm agnostic, my husband is lapsed Christain, and both our families are Christain. At the minute there is no discussion because we live quite a bit away from both families, so the kids don't go to church as we don't go to church. Nor are they christened - both our families are Protestant so what they do is a bit different, in that the parents promise in front of the church that they will bring the child up in the ways of the church. Neither of our families would want us to make a promise like that unless we intended keeping it, so there was never any aggro about it.

We intend moving beside my family I another year or so, and I know my family will want us that least take the kids to Sunday school, and ideally attend church ourselves. I will probably end up going sometimes, as I'm not atheist, so I have no strong objection to going to church - in fact I like the community spirit that attending a church brings, and having grown up with that myself I think it would be nice to give my kids that experience too. I don't object to either of our parents talking to the kids about God either, but they will be very much allowed to make up their own minds as they get older.

I don't know what I would do about the christening thing though. I know it's different in the catholic religion, as babies who aren't christened are supposed to go to Purgatory if they die if I'm not mistaken, so I can see how your MIL worries about this a lot. I think I would probably just let her take LO to her church and get baptised so that she feels better about it, as what harm will it do really? But if that's not what you want then your MIL is just going to have to lump it - you are the mummy!

Thats called indoctrination and lying and disrespectful to people who do believe. Why should the parents who do not believe in god lie to a priest? Its one thing I wouldnt do for my mother, not a hypocrite. Her mother should accept her choices for her child. I would go with the lump it. You are the mum here.

 

[Dragonfly]

How can it be disrespectful when you do it out of love and respect for your believing family members? Mine know full well that this is where it stops and that I will not tolerate any kind of preaching to them.

The priest would ask here if you believed in god, you have to read off stuff saying you believe him and renounce the devil. Then you would be lying. I wouldnt be comfortable with that.