Agnostic/Atheist parents - religious family members talking to LO about god?

[AngelUK]

Well since it was believers who begged me to have my children christened in the full knowledge that I don't believe in it (and will definitely not be bringing them up in the faith!) actually appealed to my love for them, I don't worry too much about it being morally wrong.

 

[emyandpotato]

there is no way I'd blatantly lie to a priest just to keep my MIL happy.



Being baptised is not just about sprinkling a bit of water on the head.

MrsHedgehog, thank you - this is incredibly important and it deserves the biggest font available! Being baptised is not just sprinkling some water on a person's head just to appease the MIL.

Okay, first point, that was not implied by me and I don't think by anyone else. There would be no need to lie to any priest. MIL is a believer and therefore the baptism would not be hypocritical in any way. Parents don't need to be there. Some Catholics believe that a priest doesn't even need to be there and the MIL could baptise baby herself.

Secondly, if it isn't just a bit of water, what is it? From a Catholic perspective the baptism alone- and I am NOT talking about any big ceremony or any promises, simply the quick 30 second washing of the child's head and cleansing of original sin- is not a promise of anything, it simply removes sin from the child. If you ask ANY fundamental non-hypocritical Catholic they would tell you that they would rather an innocent child not be sent to purgatory, whether or not their parents believed in it all. It is not a hypocritical act in any way because it is not going against atheist belief, it is stating their beliefs and understanding that the beliefs of a family member are causing distress and having compassion for that.

I can understand why baptising a child is something an atheist would not want to do, absolutely, but you are making out that it is not only not ideal, but plain wrong, which it is not.

Anyway, I bet at least some going on about how awful this is went and got married in a church.

 

[Natasha2605]

Well since it believers who begged me to have my children christened in the full knowledge that I don't believe in it (and will definitely not be bringing them up in the faith!) actually appealed to my love for them, I don't worry too much about it being morally wrong.

That's good, always helpful if you know you won't regret it or question your decision!

 

[Dragonfly]

Absolutely agree with this! I find it shocking that some would baptise (or equivalent) for anything other than genuine religious reasons and beliefs.

Why??

Because for a believer, baptism is about cleansing the sins before god, taking away our sins. Fine fair enough, IF you believe that. Surely for believers it is a pretty important process, to be cleansed.

But I strongly believe if you are not a believer then you are kind of making a mockery of all that it means. If you are doing it because you believe then each to their own. But to do it to keep someone happy/ have a better chance of getting into a specific school etc I think the morals are misplaced there.

For believers, it's way more than just some water and a few words. And I find is sad that other's would take it as that that just to make people happy or make their life easier.

I think quotes got mixed up with my name there but I agree with you. And many others here too.

 

[emyandpotato]

Well it kind of is. Even more so I'd imagine if you're an atheist. Surely?

If you are baptised as a Catholic then your name goes on a register of Catholic people. The more people on the register the more power the Catholic church has. I don't know if you realise how powerful the Catholic church is and just how much they manage to control, how much influence they have on politics etc. Being baptised into a religion wether you believe in God or not associates you with that religion and all that they stand for. I will not have my daughter associated with the Catholic church unless she is old enough to choose for herself. It's got nothing to do with my religious beliefs.

Pretty certain that this is not the case in the UK, and Catholicism isn't even our state religion and has only as much power as other faiths. Here religion is counted by what is put on a census.

Anyway, like I said before, a lot of Catholics accept that anyone can baptise. Doesn't have to even be in a church. So no association there.

 

[Cariad_x]

I have a big dislike for organised religion for many reasons and I didn't want me son baptised. However my OH and my in laws are all practicing catholics and as such it meant more to them to gave LO baptised than to me not to do it.

I outright told the priest that I was a non believer and he was fine with it - he just asked that I didn't agree with the statement said in the ceremony so that I wasn't lying and ensured that I was happy for it to happen. I understand that this is not the norm though.

 

[MrsHedgehog]

Well it kind of is. Even more so I'd imagine if you're an atheist. Surely?

If you are baptised as a Catholic then your name goes on a register of Catholic people. The more people on the register the more power the Catholic church has. I don't know if you realise how powerful the Catholic church is and just how much they manage to control, how much influence they have on politics etc. Being baptised into a religion wether you believe in God or not associates you with that religion and all that they stand for. I will not have my daughter associated with the Catholic church unless she is old enough to choose for herself. It's got nothing to do with my religious beliefs.

Pretty certain that this is not the case in the UK, and Catholicism isn't even our state religion and has only as much power as other faiths. Here religion is counted by what is put on a census.

Anyway, like I said before, a lot of Catholics accept that anyone can baptise. Doesn't have to even be in a church. So no association there.

You still become a number which the Catholic church, even in the UK will use to exert power. When politicians vote they do so on what they believe the demographics of their area to be so if it's an area where they believe there to be a high number of Catholics they will vote accordingly. This is how your name on a register contributes to the influence of the Catholic Church. They want to get as many followers as possible, the more followers the more power. Why do you think they are against birth control? Good Catholic families having lots and lots of kids to add even more numbers to their flock. As I said in a previous post, my SIL excommunicated herself for this very reason. For some people this may not be an issue. I just wanted to point out that there can be more reasons than simply 'not believing in God' for not wanting your child to be Baptised.

 

[emyandpotato]

MrsHedgehog I am searching desperately to find any info on whether or not that is true for the UK but to no avail! So if anyone knows I'd be really interested! You know what, I think the listing as a Catholic thing, if it's true, would make me decide against baptism (we had the same situation as the OP, and I was willing to compromise providing I wasn't involved, but MIL decided in the end she wasn't bothered enough about it).

I think you're misunderstanding me though. I'm not saying there are no good reasons not to baptise if it's important to a family member. I'm not saying that you should baptise if it's important to a family member. I was just suggesting it to OP as an idea. And then it has kind of turned in to defending that idea as something that is not fundamentally wrong, which I don't believe it is.

If it's true about the Catholic census thingy then I think that obviously that's an important point to consider, but I don't think that it makes the act of baptism alone wrong in itself, if that makes sense?

That's all we're saying really. 1) The MIL's point of view, and 2) that is isn't a fundamentally immoral act. I think people are getting pissed off thinking we're saying all babies should be baptised like it's no big deal or something.

ETA: That's not the reason for birth control, or it certainly isn't the reason from a Catholic's perspective; whether or not it would be the reason from a theologians perspective is debatable.

 

[KaceysMummy]

You still become a number which the Catholic church, even in the UK will use to exert power. When politicians vote they do so on what they believe the demographics of their area to be so if it's an area where they believe there to be a high number of Catholics they will vote accordingly. This is how your name on a register contributes to the influence of the Catholic Church. They want to get as many followers as possible, the more followers the more power. Why do you think they are against birth control? Good Catholic families having lots and lots of kids to add even more numbers to their flock. As I said in a previous post, my SIL excommunicated herself for this very reason. For some people this may not be an issue. I just wanted to point out that there can be more reasons than simply 'not believing in God' for not wanting your child to be Baptised.

Sorry, what is it the politicians are voting for?
Politics tend to change to suit demographics, that hardly has anything to do with the Catholic Church.
In the UK it is mainly censuses, which aren't exactly accurate...
And they aren't against birth control to add numbers to their flock

OP, only you can make that decision, if your not comfortable with it then tell her that.
However there's a lot more to being religious/Catholic than getting baptised, so I don't see an issue with baptism being a possibility. It would bring great comfort to MIL - and as it's not something you believe it doesn't really impact you or LO...

Also it's not really lying to a priest as long as your honest with him and say its not your belief

 

[Dragonfly]

Church and politics are very closely tied in Northern Ireland. Protestant DUP etc catholic sein fein etc People vote who is on their religious team here. Not sure if thats the same any where else. Priests wouldnt be happy here if you didnt believe and where not intending to bring your child up catholic, same as if you got married and where not even going to mass. Which is why most get registras now. Which is a good thing if you dont want religious wedding.

 

[justmeinlove]

Well, as i say, you can be baptised in cofe and it still counts re purgatory.

agree if done for schools, disagree if cos a relative wants it for say worries re purgatory. There's genuine reasons of belief there, i don't think it matters if it isn't the belief of the parents. For example my mum worried for 13 years about my cousins. I'm happy to avoid her doing the same for our child. But in cofe, as Catholicism Really bugs me.

 

[AngelUK]

took me amount to work out what cofe means lol doh at self!

 

[justmeinlove]

church of England ��

 

[AngelUK]

yes I know C of E lol

 

[Shadowy Lady]

ok, I just caught up with this thread. What happened to OP btw? lol

I don't know where the "lying to priest" assumption came from. One of my friends just went through this scenario because her MIL wanted to baptize the kid (MIL is Mexican and a devout catholic). My friend told the priest that she herself was an atheist and their reason for being there. Not only did the priest not mind he was also delighted. I tell you these days, at least here in Canada, religion is almost non-existent so the priest was excited to do the baptism of a kid whose parents are atheist.

Also, to those of you who think it's offensive to baptize a child for MIL/mom peace of mind, what would you say if an atheist told you they found it offensive you followed any aspect of science since religion talks about "creation" and "world created in like 6 days"? if you must be so "fixed" in your views then it should go both ways

Btw, I don't really care who practices what. I believe in "live and let live", but I get annoyed when attacked with religious views.

 

[Dragonfly]

Lying to the priest , when you have to say you believe in god, here there is a speech you have to say off a card while they baptize your child. I wasnt prepared to do that. Its not an assumption, its how every christening I was at done. I going to assume no other christenings have this then apart from my local ones? Even church weddings have that speech you have to swear to god.

Live and let live is right.

 

[justmeinlove]

Yep, we won't be saying that, we just explained to the guy no promising to bring her up christian either