Ask an unassisted homebirther

As for no one knowing ALL the risks, i disagree that is why doctors trained for 7+yrs they are the experts and midwifes are the experts in "normal" childbirth.

...well actually there have been no studies done on the long term effect of things like pitocin and epidurals....but that is an entirely different conversation. Just saying, even the professionals dont know everything, they arn't God. Although they probably know more about it than most others.
 
yes, insurance in America is VASTLY different than any other developed country in the world. It is quite sad....for instance, i can no longer afford my health insurance (in the US you are stuck paying unless you are basically broke, then you can get state help but you can only make like $250 per month or so-which if you're making that little you probably couldn't afford rent or food or anything else :dohh:). for the rest, you are expected to pay for the insurance or have none at all. We have to pay $12,000 per YEAR on our health insurance. I dont know about you but we are struggling to find that cash....so we are probably not going to be able to renew our insurance. We only have an offer through DHs job....and thats the price we have to pay which isn't affordable :nope: so now what? We dont qualify for the government insurance. That leaves us without insurance, so we can either pay out of pocket for a homebirth...except around here a homebirth midwife costs $3500...i dont have that sitting around either...so what do you propose one is to do in this situation?? Its easy, for the financial aspects, to have an unassisted birth...(though this isnt always the reason, usually not) but in my case if very well could be! this isnt a matter of being selfish about money :nope: its about NOT HAVING MONEY in the first place :(


oh an about laws, here is a real kicker...in the State of Pennsylvania (USA), its legal to attend a birth by a midwife in the hospital (though they HAVE to work under and OB and many OBs dont allow to have midwives work under them :dohh:). you can also have a hospital birth with an OB. You CAN LEGALLY have an unassisted birth. No questions asked by the law enforces. BUT if you have a homebirth with a midwife (of any type) then both you and the midwife can face legal trouble. If everything goes off without a hitch (at the homebirth) and no one tells the police, then no problem (because what they dont know they cant enforce ;)) If however, something were to go wrong and you do go to the hospital, the midwife cant go because she for sure will seek law penatlities as will you (becuase they would know about the assisted homebirth) BUT if you go in and lie and say it was unassisted, no questions asked. No law cares.....nice, huh? ....midwifery has to stay underground because of the laws....sick and twisted? huh?

The US isnt midwifery friendly or homebirth (assisted)friendly in any manner.
 
//As for no one knowing ALL the risks, i disagree that is why doctors trained for 7+yrs they are the experts and midwifes are the experts in "normal" childbirth.//

A little OT, but if going to school that long taught them all the risks, why are so many Western hospitals not providing evidence based care? Home birth is as safe or safer than hospital birth for low risk women. If they KNOW the risks of a hospital birth, why arent home births mire encouraged? Why are so many US women denied a VBAC? Why are so MANY cords clamped immediately? Why are so many inductions performed? Why is the CS rate so high? Either they dont "know all the risks", or worse, they do but they have to follow a flawed protocol anyway because they are trapped by "the system" or they are avoiding being sued. Is it any wonder women UC?

I'm WTT right now and my ovaries have been singing to me. So I dusted off my birth plan and started work on it. The more I did on it, the more I thought, you know what? It's IMW or UC. It has to be. An NHS mw would consider me far too awkward, I think... And ALL I want is a hands off, physiological, motherbaby directed birth. But it seems it's too much to ask.... And the MWs round here are generally pretty good, just under staffed and short on time, etc....
 
Going along with that, did you know that in the US they basically do routine c-sections for breech babies? Research says that only saves one baby per 1000 births (thats one too many, but what about the other 999 babies? Being born c-section is not a better choice for them :nope:). Also, research says that inductions, in healthy pregnancy have not proven greater outcomes. Same with repreat c-sections. The US IS a systems. That is how the system in the US works (and its pathetic). I had to fight the system tooth and nail when i went into labor due to PROM. I had to fight the system in full force prior to that as i went 41 weeks and 5 days overdue. Maybe docs in the UK are better...wish they would come over here! OBs in the US are trained in UNNORMAL births! If fact, its a bit ironic because by the time they go through med school, most have not seen unmedicated births! What most have seen and been taught is that 99% of births are NORMAL HOWEVER, and this is a BIG however, they have to treat all 100% of them as if something WILL go wrong, and thats what they do. hence the medical model :dohh: Birthing in America is unlike giving birth anywhere else, and if you were living here, you would have the potential to understand why someone would choose to not birth in a hospital or why they cant afford to birth their or in an assisted homebirth.

My tone of voice that i am conveying is challenging online. Sorry if this sounds rude, i dont intend for that all, but just pointing out why an American woman may go unassisted (not that the OP did it for this reason) but just saying there are a plethora of reasons and why to some, birthing with a doc is NOT safer to them. It IS putting their baby at risk. That is all :D

Just for the record, i am pro homebirth with a midwife, HOWEVER, i feel that woman should birth as they please. In fact, i am considering an unassisted birth due to financial reasons, and guess what?! I am a DONA Doula and a Child birth educator.....I would not encourage (or discouarge) free birthing, but all i am saying is that woman CAN do it. Birth is not inharently unsafe. It wasn't until the last 100 years (in America) that docs were even involved...makes ya wonder how the human race even survived before midwives and OBs :dohh:

And now that ive written a book :blush: i will shut up :haha:
Lets get back to the questions :D
 
Guppy, really, I'm in the UK and the NHS midwives are not "enough" for me... And sheesh, I know that many women in the US would just LOVE to have MWs like we do here!!!! If *I* can understand the attraction of a UC, even be tempted by one (even if I think ill never do that myself), then heck YES I can understand why a US lady would do it. Absolutely.
 
yes, insurance in America is VASTLY different than any other developed country in the world. It is quite sad....for instance, i can no longer afford my health insurance (in the US you are stuck paying unless you are basically broke, then you can get state help but you can only make like $250 per month or so-which if you're making that little you probably couldn't afford rent or food or anything else :dohh:). for the rest, you are expected to pay for the insurance or have none at all. We have to pay $12,000 per YEAR on our health insurance. I dont know about you but we are struggling to find that cash....so we are probably not going to be able to renew our insurance. We only have an offer through DHs job....and thats the price we have to pay which isn't affordable :nope: so now what? We dont qualify for the government insurance. That leaves us without insurance, so we can either pay out of pocket for a homebirth...except around here a homebirth midwife costs $3500...i dont have that sitting around either...so what do you propose one is to do in this situation?? Its easy, for the financial aspects, to have an unassisted birth...(though this isnt always the reason, usually not) but in my case if very well could be! this isnt a matter of being selfish about money :nope: its about NOT HAVING MONEY in the first place :(


oh an about laws, here is a real kicker...in the State of Pennsylvania (USA), its legal to attend a birth by a midwife in the hospital (though they HAVE to work under and OB and many OBs dont allow to have midwives work under them :dohh:). you can also have a hospital birth with an OB. You CAN LEGALLY have an unassisted birth. No questions asked by the law enforces. BUT if you have a homebirth with a midwife (of any type) then both you and the midwife can face legal trouble. If everything goes off without a hitch (at the homebirth) and no one tells the police, then no problem (because what they dont know they cant enforce ;)) If however, something were to go wrong and you do go to the hospital, the midwife cant go because she for sure will seek law penatlities as will you (becuase they would know about the assisted homebirth) BUT if you go in and lie and say it was unassisted, no questions asked. No law cares.....nice, huh? ....midwifery has to stay underground because of the laws....sick and twisted? huh?

The US isnt midwifery friendly or homebirth (assisted)friendly in any manner.


Makes me happy to have had my baby here in england... i did have hospital birth. wanted the birth centre but was high risk due to obstetric cholestasis. i did have goodd care i feel. i can understand your problems over there. i hope all works out well for you. i wouldn't want to have to make decisions about where i give birth and who is present based on the cost. seems so unfair xxxxx
 
It is. I was sincere when i said i wish your birth professionals would come over here :( :friends:
Also, i do apologize with my tone. Its not you-honest, i respect everyone's opinions. Its just a touchy subject with me :blush: not you- just the us system in general :(
 
Guppy, really, I'm in the UK and the NHS midwives are not "enough" for me... And sheesh, I know that many women in the US would just LOVE to have MWs like we do here!!!! If *I* can understand the attraction of a UC, even be tempted by one (even if I think ill never do that myself), then heck YES I can understand why a US lady would do it. Absolutely.

Lets switch places :D hahaha JUST KIDDING. i would never wish any woman to birth here...

there are other really really dumb laws too and it varies from state to state.
For instance in the state of Colorado, you have to give birth in the same type of facility every time. Home births are allowed (with midwives) unlike Pennsyvlania law. But the thing is, if you first birth is a homebirth, all others have to be a homebirth (unless there is an emergency). If your first birth is a hospital birth, by law you have to give birth in the hospital with all other babies. If your first birth is a birth center birth, then you have to, by law, give birth at a birth center. Isn't that nuts!!!!?!?! Like what if one had a terrible birth experience in a hospital and now, legally, they are stuck with all other babies there. It is such a sad and twisted thing ....insurance companys and OBs have WAYYY too much power...

Yall should watch "The Business of Being Born" its on NetFlix and possibly on YouTube or online. Also, "Born in america"
 
I do think the USA are WAY OVER medicalised and it is probably one of the best cases where the NHS works. I agree that alot of problems result in staff shortages, but i am totally for low risk homebirths etc. I do believe that a "low Risk" women is better at home- there is no evidence to show a more negative outcome for this, and yes it prevents intervention for "low risk" and try my best to encourage women to do so and feel supported.

Honestly with all the Insurance and red tape in the US i can see why ppl feel that UC is their best option, i just personally dont agree... but i was taught to think that way i suppose!

x
 
Guppy, really, I'm in the UK and the NHS midwives are not "enough" for me... And sheesh, I know that many women in the US would just LOVE to have MWs like we do here!!!! If *I* can understand the attraction of a UC, even be tempted by one (even if I think ill never do that myself), then heck YES I can understand why a US lady would do it. Absolutely.

Lets switch places :D hahaha JUST KIDDING. i would never wish any woman to birth here...

there are other really really dumb laws too and it varies from state to state.
For instance in the state of Colorado, you have to give birth in the same type of facility every time. Home births are allowed (with midwives) unlike Pennsyvlania law. But the thing is, if you first birth is a homebirth, all others have to be a homebirth (unless there is an emergency). If your first birth is a hospital birth, by law you have to give birth in the hospital with all other babies. If your first birth is a birth center birth, then you have to, by law, give birth at a birth center. Isn't that nuts!!!!?!?! Like what if one had a terrible birth experience in a hospital and now, legally, they are stuck with all other babies there. It is such a sad and twisted thing ....insurance companys and OBs have WAYYY too much power...

Yall should watch "The Business of Being Born" its on NetFlix and possibly on YouTube or online. Also, "Born in america"

i saw "the business of being born' on you tube and i was totally shocked. OBGYNs saying they had never seen a natural birth! I know in uk drs tend to see more complex births as MW attend any "normal" birth. My friend had her baby in a birth centre attached to labour ward and it was a really quiet night so one of the doctors asked if she could be there during her birth as she wanted to see a lovely straight forward birth. BUT its nothing like as bad as you guys have. I'm finding this tread so interesting. I remember seeing a programme on freeing birthing in UK a few years ago and at the time i thought the women were very irresponsible. One lady was about 2 hours from any hospital (which i still think is mad) BUT this tread has opened my eyes. So interesting to read about peoples experiences and thoughts. Now for me i would not even want a home birth (and when i attempt a VBAC next time i will want to be in a hospital for certain) so an unassisted birth is definately not my thing. you ladies have let me understand why its done by some women and although i can't say i totally agree with it... i do respect your decisions and view it in a new light. thanks for sharing xxx
 
can i add i don't think any of you are "mad" just the woman who's nearest help was like 2 hours away. i don't wish to upset anyone xxxxxxxx
 
aww hun you havn't upset anyone :friends:
View points are a good thing and i fully respect yours as well :D
 
I fell pretty blessed to be in New Zealand, where the Midwifery model is the norm as are independant midwives, funded by the state if that's your choice of LMC. Of course the same problems exist within the hospital system as in all other "developed" nations but it seems to be much easier to step outside of that system than in the US or even the UK. For a homebirth here my independant midwife will attend (with at least 1 other, maybe 2, as it's a VBAC), not the on-call midwife. Thank you all for sharing and I agree that for a woman to have to choose to undertake UC solely for financial reasons is diabolical. Of course if it is chosen due to that woman's personal beliefs then that is fine by me, but no-one should be forced down this route as the only alternative to medicalised birth simply due to lack of funds or insurance. All the best to all of you, I hope you all get the best outcomes for your families.
 
Congratulations on your safe arrival.

Unfortunately without trying to cause offence i do not understand why people would even consider unassited births. I understand that in the USA it is VERY medicalised and i can see the need for it, but here in the UK it is illegal to purposefully have a unassisted birth and also for a untrained person to act as a birth attendant.
As a trained professional i have seen many beautiful low risk births but also the other extreme where people are simply lucky to have the TRAINED professional there.
Yes there are many WHAT IF's and no it does not mean they will happen, but if they did i think it would be irresponsible to put yourself in a position to have to deal with them (or not) with what is basically no experience. Yes people who choose this option research these things and scenarios greatly, but if that were all were needed, ppl would not have to dedicated minimum 3yrs (hr in the UK) to have the privilege to assist women in their birth experience. I believe that no amount of research or "basic" medical training can prepare anyone for childbirth emergencies.

I know this sounds like a harsh post, (im sorry) i do respect womens rights and opinions and support women in these choices, but i would not be doing my job if women did not know EVERY possibility and risks involved. I do not believe that feeling a baby move tells you a baby is safe, - when babies are starved of oxygen it is not uncommon for them to have excessive movements as they fight for their life. This is why when we monitor fetal movement we look for changed and excessive as well as none or reduced.


ANyways, my rant over. Apologies if i have offended, it was not my intention but simply to express my opinion, and stress that free birthing is ILLEGAL in the UK. I would be very concerned for my ladies if i thought that a, they would intentionally go through with this, and b, they had that little trust in their midwives that they felt they could not let us support them in their birthing experience.

Again, Congratulations on your safe arrival. x

I have to correct the above.

As a lawyer I can tell you this is NOT true under the laws of England and Wales.

Firstly, you have ultimate freedom to birth in your own home or anywhere without any attendants - whether you do this intentionally or not. It would be a very strange state that would make a physiological function of the human race an illegal act. This right is also enshrined in Human rights law (it was also recently commented on and examined in the case of Ternovszky v Hungary 2010 "the right concerning the decision to become a parent includes the right of choosing the circumstances of becoming a parent. The court is satisfied that the circumstances of giving birth incontestably form part of one's private life")

Secondly, the only thing that is illegal is for a person to purport to act or intend to act as a midwife. This doesn't included OHs, doulas, your grandmother.. or even a kind bin man or anyone who is present at your birth.
It is an unfortunate common misconception (even among medical professionals)

Here is the Law:
Midwifery Order 2001, Paragraph 45
1) A person other than a registered midwife or a registered medical practitioner shall not attend a women in childbirth
2) Paragraph (1) does NOT apply -
a) where the attention is given in a case of sudden or urgent necessity; or
b) in the case of a person who, while undergoing training with a view to becoming a medical practitioner or to becoming a midwife, attends a women in childbirth as part of a course of practical instruction in midwifery recognised by the council or by the general medical council.


Had to clear that one up, as it could be very damaging to women's choices and freedoms

XXX



So are you saying that as long as your intend to become a midwife, professional etc that you are exempt from this law??

It is illegal for a not qualified person to purposefully act as a midwife etc. Even if it is OH/DOula etc. Obviously BBA's etc (born before arrivals) are very different cases but to act if i were "almost" qualified i would not have a leg to stand on as such if i were to act as that womens midwife and deliver her baby knowing that i have the "knowledge", just the same as i see "doctors" procedures all the time, i know the medical ins and outs, and could probably manage to deliver a baby etc, as such for a c-section but i would loose my job if i thought i could just perform this even in the case of a emergency.

I appreciate that this is not the same, but to say it is not illegal for a doula etc to act as the midwife , even if they intend to proceed to the career is wrong. (Apologies if i interpreted your comment wrongly)

As for no one knowing ALL the risks, i disagree that is why doctors trained for 7+yrs they are the experts and midwifes are the experts in "normal" childbirth.

Sorry, I think you have interpreted me wrong - Or I haven’t made it clear.
I'm not saying that any man and his dog whether they be a trainee MW or a doula are exempt and free from prosecution if they purposely intend to act as a midwife. It is illegal for anyone to do so. (I should have made that clearer when I mentioned the bin man etc)

This act was made to stop a lay-person from pretending to be a MW or a medical person with a women in childbirth. It is not to prosecute someone who is in the same room as a women in child birth offering support or encouragement and be in attendance i.e present, but they can not attend to the women. (there in lies the difference). So, if a person did something physical to the mother (attended her) or they were saying they intended to act or be a MW (which wasn't in an emergency) they would be liable to be prosecuted.
If it is an emergency, (imminent point of birth would count as an emergency) such as in paragraph 2.. paragraph 1 doesn't apply. Say there isn't a MW or medical professional available or even if there is a MW present an they need assistance with the mother, then ANY lay-person (the bin man, even a trainee MW OR trainee Doctor) could attend to the mother. (with her consent - if possible)
You wouldn't loose your job if you attended a women in an emergency (anyone can). However if you are a trainee MW you can’t touch a women (certainly not without consent anyway.. But neither can any registered MW) if it isn‘t an emergency unless it is part of your training and a registered MW is also in attendance.
However, if it was an emergency (no professionals available) and you were not with a women as part of your training, and you failed to act (unless asked not to by the women) you could certainly be sued, or worst case is, if the mother then died as a result of your negligence, you could be liable for murder by omission.

To summarise
- There is NO law against unassisted childbirth in England and Wales;
- Anyone can be present.. but they can't pretend to be a MW;
- Plus anyone can assist in an emergency and attend the mother.

It is very important everybody knows this; I would hate to think that any MW could be telling any pregnant women it is illegal to birth unassisted in the UK or to have there nearest, dearest or trusted with them, or for their nearest and dearest or bin man to help a women in child birth if needed.

I'll happily answer any questions, so it can be fully understood.
Xxx
 
This thread is fab!:thumbup: I am expecting number 5 in four weeks and as my last labour was only 2 hours, my MIL will take an hour to arrive to look after the children and my hospital is an hour away, I may have to have an unassisted homebirth myself!:wacko:

I have searched the net for similar experiences to educate myself on the "risk factors" etc and as the original poster says, I know my body better than anyone else, so if I feel I won't make the hospital,I am quite prepared to birth at home unassisted.:thumbup:

I agree we over medicalise birth and in a low risk pregnancy, being at home can be so much more relaxing.

Can I ask what kind of reaction you got from other people in real life after you gave birth? Was it admiration or negativity?:flower:
 
In regards to reactions from people, most people whom we believe might have a negative reaction, we honestly don't tell them it was unassisted. The reason behind this was because we do plan on having more children, more than likely unassisted. The responses of people we have told, however, are more shock and admiration. My husband has been congratulated, had his hand shook, and been praised for catching our son. He's quite proud of the achievement himself. Outside of my husband's family, though, we've only told a handful of people. We even tell my parents that there was a midwife there. :blush:
 
Congratulations!

Can I just ask another question. I am in no way trying to offend anyone, but this is something that has not been raised on this thread yet. We've had people accusing the OP of endangering her unborn childs life through things going wrong in child birth, but no one has mentioned this.

What would you have done, had your baby been born with a birth defect that requires immediate medical attention? I have no experience with other birth defects but my daughter has spina bifida. If I was not in a hospital when she was born, she would certainly not be here now. Her SB is one of the more extreme cases - very rarely do you see a defect as large as hers it - but it happens. It doesn't just happen to people you know. It could happen to you.

I was 20 when I gave birth. Tegan's SB was diagnosed prenatally via U/S. It doesn't just happen to people who are old or unhealthy - I was healthy as a horse, and young. I jumped through ALL the hoops. Your baby could have had any number of things wrong it, things that you simply cannot detect without proper health care. I have no qualms whatsoever with freebirthing - Your body, your baby. I do have qualms with such a shocking lack of prenatal care :(

When a baby is born with Sb, it has a defect on its back which is open to the world. In the most common type of SB, there is a thin membrane covering the opening which more often than not, bursts during childbirth. The spinal canal is attached to the brain and the liquid which surrounds the brain subsequently leaks out of the newly formed hole (which is sometimes the size of a penny... and sometimes the size of your fist, in Tegan's case). If things can get out, things can get in. Bacteria entering that defect is life threatening, and it DOES kill babies with SB. Did you know the protocol if you were to give birth to a baby with SB?

Once again, I reiterate, I have no problems at all with freebirthing. I just think it should be accompanied by at least one ultrasound towards the end of a pregnancy to ensure the fetus is healthy.
 
If my child had a birth defect, such as spina bifida, the ambulance would have been called immediately. Emergency services takes less than 5 minutes to get to my house. Birth defects would be considered an emergency.

This being said, I am against ultrasounds. We wouldn't have them done whether we went to an OB or a midwife, so in regards to that being lacking in my care, it wouldn't have been there no matter what type of prenatal care I got. I did all the prenatal care that I would have recieved going to a midwife or an OB.

BTW, I have to add that your daughter is gorgeous!
 
Congratulations on your safe arrival.

Unfortunately without trying to cause offence i do not understand why people would even consider unassited births. I understand that in the USA it is VERY medicalised and i can see the need for it, but here in the UK it is illegal to purposefully have a unassisted birth and also for a untrained person to act as a birth attendant.
As a trained professional i have seen many beautiful low risk births but also the other extreme where people are simply lucky to have the TRAINED professional there.
Yes there are many WHAT IF's and no it does not mean they will happen, but if they did i think it would be irresponsible to put yourself in a position to have to deal with them (or not) with what is basically no experience. Yes people who choose this option research these things and scenarios greatly, but if that were all were needed, ppl would not have to dedicated minimum 3yrs (hr in the UK) to have the privilege to assist women in their birth experience. I believe that no amount of research or "basic" medical training can prepare anyone for childbirth emergencies.

I know this sounds like a harsh post, (im sorry) i do respect womens rights and opinions and support women in these choices, but i would not be doing my job if women did not know EVERY possibility and risks involved. I do not believe that feeling a baby move tells you a baby is safe, - when babies are starved of oxygen it is not uncommon for them to have excessive movements as they fight for their life. This is why when we monitor fetal movement we look for changed and excessive as well as none or reduced.


ANyways, my rant over. Apologies if i have offended, it was not my intention but simply to express my opinion, and stress that free birthing is ILLEGAL in the UK. I would be very concerned for my ladies if i thought that a, they would intentionally go through with this, and b, they had that little trust in their midwives that they felt they could not let us support them in their birthing experience.

Again, Congratulations on your safe arrival. x

I have to correct the above.

As a lawyer I can tell you this is NOT true under the laws of England and Wales.

Firstly, you have ultimate freedom to birth in your own home or anywhere without any attendants - whether you do this intentionally or not. It would be a very strange state that would make a physiological function of the human race an illegal act. This right is also enshrined in Human rights law (it was also recently commented on and examined in the case of Ternovszky v Hungary 2010 "the right concerning the decision to become a parent includes the right of choosing the circumstances of becoming a parent. The court is satisfied that the circumstances of giving birth incontestably form part of one's private life")

Secondly, the only thing that is illegal is for a person to purport to act or intend to act as a midwife. This doesn't included OHs, doulas, your grandmother.. or even a kind bin man or anyone who is present at your birth.
It is an unfortunate common misconception (even among medical professionals)

Here is the Law:
Midwifery Order 2001, Paragraph 45
1) A person other than a registered midwife or a registered medical practitioner shall not attend a women in childbirth
2) Paragraph (1) does NOT apply -
a) where the attention is given in a case of sudden or urgent necessity; or
b) in the case of a person who, while undergoing training with a view to becoming a medical practitioner or to becoming a midwife, attends a women in childbirth as part of a course of practical instruction in midwifery recognised by the council or by the general medical council.


Had to clear that one up, as it could be very damaging to women's choices and freedoms

XXX



So are you saying that as long as your intend to become a midwife, professional etc that you are exempt from this law??

It is illegal for a not qualified person to purposefully act as a midwife etc. Even if it is OH/DOula etc. Obviously BBA's etc (born before arrivals) are very different cases but to act if i were "almost" qualified i would not have a leg to stand on as such if i were to act as that womens midwife and deliver her baby knowing that i have the "knowledge", just the same as i see "doctors" procedures all the time, i know the medical ins and outs, and could probably manage to deliver a baby etc, as such for a c-section but i would loose my job if i thought i could just perform this even in the case of a emergency.

I appreciate that this is not the same, but to say it is not illegal for a doula etc to act as the midwife , even if they intend to proceed to the career is wrong. (Apologies if i interpreted your comment wrongly)

As for no one knowing ALL the risks, i disagree that is why doctors trained for 7+yrs they are the experts and midwifes are the experts in "normal" childbirth.

Sorry, I think you have interpreted me wrong - Or I haven’t made it clear.
I'm not saying that any man and his dog whether they be a trainee MW or a doula are exempt and free from prosecution if they purposely intend to act as a midwife. It is illegal for anyone to do so. (I should have made that clearer when I mentioned the bin man etc)

This act was made to stop a lay-person from pretending to be a MW or a medical person with a women in childbirth. It is not to prosecute someone who is in the same room as a women in child birth offering support or encouragement and be in attendance i.e present, but they can not attend to the women. (there in lies the difference). So, if a person did something physical to the mother (attended her) or they were saying they intended to act or be a MW (which wasn't in an emergency) they would be liable to be prosecuted.
If it is an emergency, (imminent point of birth would count as an emergency) such as in paragraph 2.. paragraph 1 doesn't apply. Say there isn't a MW or medical professional available or even if there is a MW present an they need assistance with the mother, then ANY lay-person (the bin man, even a trainee MW OR trainee Doctor) could attend to the mother. (with her consent - if possible)
You wouldn't loose your job if you attended a women in an emergency (anyone can). However if you are a trainee MW you can’t touch a women (certainly not without consent anyway.. But neither can any registered MW) if it isn‘t an emergency unless it is part of your training and a registered MW is also in attendance.
However, if it was an emergency (no professionals available) and you were not with a women as part of your training, and you failed to act (unless asked not to by the women) you could certainly be sued, or worst case is, if the mother then died as a result of your negligence, you could be liable for murder by omission.

To summarise
- There is NO law against unassisted childbirth in England and Wales;
- Anyone can be present.. but they can't pretend to be a MW;
- Plus anyone can assist in an emergency and attend the mother.

It is very important everybody knows this; I would hate to think that any MW could be telling any pregnant women it is illegal to birth unassisted in the UK or to have there nearest, dearest or trusted with them, or for their nearest and dearest or bin man to help a women in child birth if needed.

I'll happily answer any questions, so it can be fully understood.
Xxx


Yes i think your original post was misinterpreted i apologise.
I agree and am not saying that someone that helped a women in an emergency or a baby that was born before professionals arrive etc are acting illegally. Im simply saying to purposefully intend to deliver someones baby is no matter who you are. I am not suggesting those offering support are doing so.
I am involved in a interesting case at present surrounding similar circumstances - due to ongoing and confidentiality i can not explain, but it probably explains my seemingly *although unintentional* harsh post.

Please do not think that i am a midwife that goes around telling ladies if they choose no professional it is illegal but i would provide them with all the info on the law in terms of other ppl intending to deliver babies etc as well as supervisory support for both the mother and baby welfare as well as support for the midwifery team.


xxx
 
yeah, actually being in the birthing world as much as i am, i have found many many woman who do not want ultra sounds done. Especially since the risk is sort of unknown. So even woman that birth with an OB in a hospital or a midwife at home, they do not want ultrasounds either. Certainly the majority of woman get them done, but there is a great amount that dont want to take any risk that could be invloved with ultrasound whether they are seeking outside sources of prenatal care or not (like an OB or midwife)
 

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