Binge drinking and the NHS

[PeanutBean]

Talk about misunderstanding. I was under the impression this thread was about binge drinking. There are only two reasons for binge drinking (ultimately): poverty (our poor) and pleasure (our irresponsible rich). Oh and I guess addiction down the line. I never said anything like rich people are irresponsible.

This isn't a thread about taxation, however as you ask, I work full time for a charity on low pay. My husband works full time at a local authority on pay too low to be frozen. No pay rises for either of us. And yes I do feel it's fair to have more taxation. When everyone starts life with equal opportunities I'll accept that those that earn more do so through hard work and skill rather than through privelage, which is the case for most wealthy people. Also under such a circumstance socially important jobs such as care and public services should be well paid instead of craply paid or who would choose to do them? As that will never happen I am quite happy for the rich to subsidise the poor who invariably are so through lack of opportunity and education. If you want to argue about that with me feel free but all social mobility studies indicate that those born rich stay rich and those born poor stay poor with very very few exceptions. Should I ever be lucky enough to be rich I'll have no problem with paying a high tax rate. If I cared about being rich I would've chosen a different career but I care about people, not money.

 

[Eternal]

Talk about misunderstanding. I was under the impression this thread was about binge drinking. There are only two reasons for binge drinking (ultimately): poverty (our poor) and pleasure (our irresponsible rich). Oh and I guess addiction down the line. I never said anything like rich people are irresponsible.

This isn't a thread about taxation, however as you ask, I work full time for a charity on low pay. My husband works full time at a local authority on pay too low to be frozen. No pay rises for either of us. And yes I do feel it's fair to have more taxation. When everyone starts life with equal opportunities I'll accept that those that earn more do so through hard work and skill rather than through privelage, which is the case for most wealthy people. Also under such a circumstance socially important jobs such as care and public services should be well paid instead of craply paid or who would choose to do them? As that will never happen I am quite happy for the rich to subsidise the poor who invariably are so through lack of opportunity and education. If you want to argue about that with me feel free but all social mobility studies indicate that those born rich stay rich and those born poor stay poor with very very few exceptions. Should I ever be lucky enough to be rich I'll have no problem with paying a high tax rate. If I cared about being rich I would've chosen a different career but I care about people, not money.

Firstly Im sorry if my answer sounded aggressive.

I do agree that those with money tend to have money and those without dont. I worked in charities and one of the things we wanted to do was break the cycle of 3rd and 4th benefit dependant familes, you are what you learn. I totally agree.

All my working life (until i had my son) was either in healthcare (as a nurse) or in charities or in very poverty driven schools. So I see it a lot, surley that is the cycle to be broken, young people need to be empowered and given all the same opportunities of those with money. Often its more that those with money have the right "contacts", like lawyers and doctors, often need work experince in those areas before accpeted to med school or barrier courses. Those who have families who have never worked never get those opportunties.

If we countine to tax those who earn more than avarage they will leave the country and then what? they will take those skills, knowledge and money to other countries where they are valued.

I know people who work in the oil inductry who delclare their taxes in france or somewhere else, or move out of the country. I know lots of doctors who left this country, I also know skilled trades people who left the country.

I totally support the system those who earn more contribute more, but there needs to be a limit, if you increase NI contributions then theose earning more will be paying out far more in deductions than they are earning, and they untilmately are the ones paying privately for schooling and healthcare. Then then more you tax them the less they spend, and those top end industries will fail.

I could have trained as a doctor, i had the grades and the contacts (not rich at all, my family are lower eraners, my mums disabled, my uncle is a doctor though). But I still would have been working my ass off now to climb the ladder, i would have left med school with £30,000 or more in debt (i have friends with a minimum of that) and for what? To when i get to the told of my gane (if ever) to be taxed enough that i would have been much better off finicially in a much lower paying, less stressful job?

Equally my husband is classed as a middle earner (low end of) and i know people on benefits who bring in more than him

I am not trying to make an argument at all, i just dont understand at all, those earning more already pay more, should we continue to punish those who earn more? because they will leave and we wont have people filling those jobs.

I heard of people who work in London flyinging in each day from France one for better lifestyle and two to avoid taxation.

Is it wrong for people to earn more? whats too much?

 

[PeanutBean]

The million dollar question that eternal! The ultra rich and largest corporations already take their tax elsewhere. If skilled people (eg doctors) leave then we've lots of skilled people coming in from other countries that so balances out.

What you say about internships etc I totally agree with. I'm glad you can see where I'm coming from in your experience. A lot needs to change for this country to be anything like fair.

I don't know the answer to your question but it's clear from the state of our social and public services that there isn't enough money at the moment and evidently it can't come from further business based taxes. Of course I'd like to see a proper banking tax which may or may not sufficiently improve things (though not if it indirectly came from our own pockets). It's a complex issue and I don't pretend to know the answer. I do know that there was a choice between NI and VAT and the coalition made the wrong one. As a proportion of income poor people spend far more on products and commodities with VAT than rich people and as such are affected more by a VAT rise. The lowest earners would've been protected with an NI increase.

We are quite astonishingly off topic with this now! Perhaps we need a new thread - how should taxation work in the UK?

 

[PeanutBean]

From an historical perspective binge drinking really is nothing new. Alcoholic drinks will have developed because they would make water potable pre-water treatment. Alcohol also aids digestion by emulsifying fat and the average old English diet (not including those in extreme poverty) would've been very fatty. A our traditional English dishes are loaded with lard and butter. In the 18th century it was the gin shops destroying the rich and poor, today the fear is over alcopops. There is something about our English (maybe British?) heritage that has predisposed us to be drinkers.

There may be something genetic in it too. Look at the way the Geordies drink! Maybe it's totally down to how poor the NE is or maybe there's an element of genes in there too. For sure people can be genetically predisposed to addiction so mixed with the drinking culture and poverty it has to be a recipe for disaster.

From personal experience, DH is a Geordie and both sides of his family are big drinkers. I actually got wrong off his mum a few years ago because after a series of highly shameful drinking experiences and blackouts DH decided to give up for a few months and I was reprimanded for changing him! His granddad died last year from alcohol caused illnesses despite having been told to give up years and years ago. DH simply loves drinking. I don't understand it. I had my drinking fun at uni but one night when I couldn't completely remember everything had me stop as I couldn't bear the thought of being out of control. I curb DH's drinking. He hardly drinks at all now, maybe two or three nights a year plus occasional bits of moderate wine drinking or whatever with me. I am convinced his destiny would be alcoholism if I didn't keep myself in the way. I am certain it is genetic as well as cultural.