Calling all Agnostic/Atheist Mommas

[AngelUK]

Both my OH and I are non believers. Both our families are Orthodox, his Greek and mine Romanian. My brother and his wife are extremely religious and we have come to huge clashes over this. To do him a favour cause I do love him, I did have my boys Christened. Makes no difference to me but means loads to him. Also, I have been told that certain Church of England schools, which are usually good schools, won't accept unchristened children. So we thought why not.
But since we both believe that science and logic defies religion as we have known it, we will definitely raise our boys to think and not to just accept on faith.

 

[beanzz]

See, here's where I'm a pretty bad person. I hate religion a lot. I just see it as the reason for all the bad in the world because people will take everything too seriously and it starts wars. I will raise Oakley an atheist but if he chooses differently as he's older I will be okay with it. But! Because I was christened as a child and all my family are I got Oakley christened so he wasn't left out. Lied a lot to the vicar/priest dude or whatever he was to get the christening and donated nothing to the church. If there is a god, I'm going to hell if there's one way I'll raise my child it will be to not be like me haha

 

[Dragonfly]

Same up here Springer only the school I found took my son on , I made sure he didnt need christened, some schools do but the old way was you needed the baptism cert, In the south I would say they would still do that.

Technically you don't need to be baptised, schools officially take people of all faiths but there has was first a large influx of immigrants, mostly from Catholic countries, and now a huge baby boom so in many areas there is much greater demand than supply and so the schools then give priority to baptised children. Our equality legislation specifically allows schools to discriminate based on religion. The other problem here is that all our teacher training colleges are faith based and primary school English and Irish language readers are littered with religious stories, so even children in multi-dom schools or who are exempted from religious studies in faith schools, still end up sitting through quite a chunk of Christian doctrine. And lastly in Catholic schools all prep for the sacraments of Communion and Confirmation are done during class time, so months and months of second class and sixth class are a write off in terms of education.

Not any more you dont but I asked some other schools in the area when I was looking for my son and they where so rude and said they never had non Catholics in the school before. Lucky I did fine one close that was nice. Though I think my son will have to sit through RE class as there is no one to look out for him but the teacher has told me there is no RE class till p3 as they dont know who god is earlier on. We had it drummed in us from the start. I went to a catholic convent school. So I know a lot of time was spent on RE. People used to christen here to get kids in to school, in fact I was told I would have to to get mine in, clearly people dont realise thats not the way any more. Its rather different in Ireland especially NI where you dont have mixed schools in many areas. Its something a lot of atheists in NI are fighting for. I do not want to christen my children to fit in I refuse to. I know this upsets my family and they think I am evil for not doing it. I dont think my mum realises that they cant make the sarcriments as she was thrilled they get to go to a catholic school as she herself thought you needed christened. Thats another row. My dad full supports me as he was brought up religion free.

 

[Natsku]

I'm agnostic, OH is atheist and not really sure what FOB is (he changes his mind a lot!). I'll teach Maria about different religions in a cultural/historical context (its pretty interesting reading about different beliefs and traditions, I find it fascinating) but she won't be going to religious classes in school (I'll be putting her in the Ethics class instead)
She'll get a lot of religious influence from her grandparents (my side and FOB's side) and although I take her to my parent's church when we visit them its only once a year and it means a lot to my dad so I do it because of that, but she's not allowed to go to FOB's parent's church (until she is old enough to decide for herself) as its pretty extreme and those people are very homophobic which is not something I want Maria learning!

 

[MumToEva]

I'm agnostic. I was brought up in a religious household, but my parents never forced their religion on me, and I liked the feeling of community that I had growing up through a church. I would like to offer my children the chance to experience that in the same way I was, so hubby and I will probably start attending a local church for that reason some time in the near future, though obviously we need to choose a church carefully.

Unfortunately, living in Northern Ireland, religion and the politics around religion is an issue that cannot be so easily avoided as it can in some other places, but we have chosen to live in a mixed area where religious/political views are not flaunted. The village primary school is also mixed, but secondary schools here do tend to be more split up by religion. We will choose a secondary school carefully when the time comes.

 

[C_baby]

I don't know where/when some of you went to catholic school but I left a catholic school in 04 and it was nothing like you said. Yes we had RE every week but it was more studying the bible like you would a book in an English lit class. We also learned about other religions and outside of RE religion was not mentioned. There was a mass every week but it was optional. There was a mandatory mass once a term and if a pupil or teacher died and that was it.

I've been thinking the same thing. I think the majority of modern catholic schools are nothing like people assume them. My stepdaughter still attends catholic high school and my stepson went to the same school, both went to catholic primary. Stepson is now atheist and although stepdaughter still believes in god she is by no longer attends church outside school mass and is very much a modern teenager. I think when she leaves school she's likely to be a fair weather catholic, ie church at Christmas.

I am atheist and OH is a lapsed Catholic who I would say is now pretty agnostic. Ivan will be brought up differently because of my beliefs. Although i don't think its been detrimental to his elder siblings he won't be attending faith school as I think it's entirely uneccessary. If his school were to have some religious activities, a nativity play for example, I wouldn't restrict him from it. I don't think all aspects of religion are harmful so in happy for him to exposed to it. I recited the Lord's Prayer a few thousand times throughout my education without losing my powers of reasoning and for me doing such things has taught me to be able to be respectful of others even when I do not agree with them. I will use it as an opportunity to educate him and discuss religion with him. I will tell him what I believe and my reasons and what other people believe and from that he can draw his own conclusions.

There are aspects of some old school religious teaching that I absolutely do not agree with and he shall be taught very early on that these things are not acceptable. My stepchildren although raised catholic were taught in the same way that some things in the bible are not relevant to todays society and are wrong.

 

[Lindsey123]

I've been thinking about how to word it when i want to explain that god doesn't exist because i'm terrified that him hearing about god from elsewhere will brainwash him before he's settled into his understanding of the world. I'm pretty sure that's too complicated, but i just can't think what to say to be honest! Any suggestions?

Richard Dawkins wrote a letter to his ten year old daughter saying this very thing, worded beautifully. I copy a link here so you can read it. Hope it helps x

https://www.rationalresponders.com/...o_warn_your_child_about_this_irrational_world

 

[Lindsey123]

I personally think that it IS my business - not to quash spirituality, but to educate my child, and if that is by actively dissuading my child from believing in fiction, then I will.

I disagree totally that it is 'courage' to believe in something you can't see. Surely, if that were the case, adults would continue to at least try to nurture an enduring belief in the tooth fairy, or Santa, or, to use an extreme example, the thestrals in 'Harry Potter' - a book featuring plenty of invisible things that sits happily on the fiction shelf, where it belongs. Alongside the Bible.

Yes, faith is a personal thing. But faith must not overrule fact, and if a child is taught that dinosaurs are a couple of thousand years old or that they did not actually exist at all, then we are discrediting human research in favour of a nice story.

That's your standpoint and I completely respect it.

It'd be nice if my children could learn about different cultures and religions. If they happen to choose one for a lifestyle, I'm not going to argue against it.

My mom pressured me growing up to believe in God and to be a Christian and I just remember thinking what a horrible example of a Christian she was. I didn't like her religion being shoved down my throat. So in that aspect, I don't want to push the idea of religion is all BS etc down my children's throats.

I hope they make sensible choices for themselves but if they should choose to become religious, I don't want them to grow up having bad memories of me like I do with my mother, you know?

Totally understand where you're coming from, having had a similar experience with my own mother. Interesting, isn't it, how overly pushy people sometimes push you in the opposite way they intended! You raised a different point, though, perhaps unintentionally, (I have put it in bold above) that I find very interesting and I'd not addressed this in my original post, so I'd like to do that now.

Just to note here first that, as an antitheist, I personally am against ANY form of religion and am not in any way targeting Christianity. I think Christopher Hitchens defined it most succinctly so I will quote him rather than attempt to verbalise myself and make this post even longer: " I'm not even an atheist so much as I am an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches, and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful."

You said it'd be nice if your children could learn about different cultures and religions. TOTALLY agree with this. My own Master's dissertation was based on religious belief expressed in Romantic literature. However, I've noticed that when mothers here are answering the question of how they intend to bring up their babies in terms of religion, they are all only really considering Christianity in its various forms.

Some posters say they'd attend Church out of respect for any belief their child had, or support their belief in God. But what if it were not the Christian God? What if your children came back having learned about Islam at school, or from a friend, and wanted to convert? Or Judaism? Hinduism? Buddhism? Wicca? Satanism? Would you all respect these views too, in the spirit of free thinking and choice, or would you only accept free thinking within the confines of adherence to the prevailing religion of the country you inhabit?

I'm VERY interested in people's responses to this. It's something I feel passionately about and am very much enjoying reading people's contributions

 

[greenlady]

We are not religious and nor do we know many people (any) who are so it is unlikely my children will have much exposure to it. I went through a phase as a kid and went to a bible camp with my cousin. I came home convinced my family were all going to hell and spent the next several years praying to a god i didnt really believe in to forgive me for sins I didnt know if I'd comitted, just in case. When I finally snapped out of it I decided I didn't believe any of it, and as time went on i got angry that I had been made to feel this way as a young child. I never spoke to my parents about it - they aren't religious either, but let me go to this thing because my older cousin was going too - so thy didn't know what I was feeling and probably still don't.

Clearly this is my personal experience of religion and it left a bad taste in my mouth. It won't be that way for everyone. But it does mean that I wouldn't be too happy about my children experimenting with religion, certainly not in their younger years. While I would encourage them to have their own views when they are older, I also want to encourage scientific and rational thought processes, and ro be honest I hope that they would come to the same conclusions as I have.

I will not send my children to religious schools, because I can't afford private school (I think most religious schools are private here) and it would feel hypocritical. Of course I'd like my children to learn about religion within the context I history politics and culture at school, but I wouldn't be keen on any kind of religious teachings.

Lindsey123 very interesting question, I think sometimes people might not be so open minded if it was a different religion to what is normally relevant to them. But it's hard to admit that. Personally I would find the three big monotheistic religions the worst of all those you have listed to be honest. Give me Wicca any day.

 

[onetwothreebp]

I'll be completely honest - I would be fine with ANY religion except something like satanic or Wiccan and perhaps that's wrong. If my child became a Muslim or Buddhist, I would be completely fine with that. There is faith beyond Christianity.

The whole Wiccan/satanic issue is partly because I don't understand the beliefs and because I have childhood arguments engrained in my brain.

 

[SpringerS]

Some posters say they'd attend Church out of respect for any belief their child had, or support their belief in God. But what if it were not the Christian God? What if your children came back having learned about Islam at school, or from a friend, and wanted to convert? Or Judaism? Hinduism? Buddhism? Wicca? Satanism? Would you all respect these views too, in the spirit of free thinking and choice, or would you only accept free thinking within the confines of adherence to the prevailing religion of the country you inhabit?

I'd really rather that my son does not become religious but if he does I'd waaay rather he develops an interest in Neopaganism, Wicca, Buddhism, etc and followed that interest as a solitary practitioner.

 

[Noodlebear]

I think that by the time Lucas is old enough to start understanding religion he'll be at school. The only one that really gets taught about in primary schools round here is Christianity so I think I'd use that as my opportunity to explain to him that there are lots of religions and tell him what I can about various ones. When I was a child I strongly believed in God because I went to a christian primary school, I was christened when I was 7 because I chose to be (not entirely sure I agree with asking a 7 year old that but there you go). I stopped believing as I got to around 11, everyone just let me make my own mind up and I think that's the way to go.

The thought of pushing my son into believing in God or forcing him not to believe in God doesn't sit right with me x

 

[staralfur]

Some posters say they'd attend Church out of respect for any belief their child had, or support their belief in God. But what if it were not the Christian God? What if your children came back having learned about Islam at school, or from a friend, and wanted to convert? Or Judaism? Hinduism? Buddhism? Wicca? Satanism? Would you all respect these views too, in the spirit of free thinking and choice, or would you only accept free thinking within the confines of adherence to the prevailing religion of the country you inhabit?

I'm VERY interested in people's responses to this. It's something I feel passionately about and am very much enjoying reading

Absolutely. If I were to choose a religion for myself it would be Buddhism; I think Buddhist philosophy is wonderful. Actually, I like a few of the Eastern religions. So if I dare say it, I'd actually prefer my daughter chose a religion other than Christianity.

I also live in a very multicultural location where there is extensive access to pretty much any tradition, and I think my daughter will likely meet people and have friends from all across the board. I think it's fabulous!

 

[Noodlebear]

Some posters say they'd attend Church out of respect for any belief their child had, or support their belief in God. But what if it were not the Christian God? What if your children came back having learned about Islam at school, or from a friend, and wanted to convert? Or Judaism? Hinduism? Buddhism? Wicca? Satanism? Would you all respect these views too, in the spirit of free thinking and choice, or would you only accept free thinking within the confines of adherence to the prevailing religion of the country you inhabit?

I'm VERY interested in people's responses to this. It's something I feel passionately about and am very much enjoying reading

Absolutely. If I were to choose a religion for myself it would be Buddhism; I think Buddhist philosophy is wonderful. Actually, I like a few of the Eastern religions. So if I dare say it, I'd actually prefer my daughter chose a religion other than Christianity.

I also live in a very multicultural location where there is extensive access to pretty much any tradition, and I think my daughter will likely meet people and have friends from all across the board. I think it's fabulous!

It'd be different for me not because I'm ignorant in any way but because I can't even think where people who aren't christian would go round here! There are loads of churches but not much else. It really isn't multi-cultural at all....I'm white British and I can only think of 2 children in my school year group that weren't! x

 

[Natsku]

There isn't really much of other religions where I live so if Maria was to get interested in following a religion it would most likely be Christian. I wouldn't particularly want her to be a follower of any religion but beyond that I don't think I'd mind if it was one other than Christianity (if she did choose one then I'd maybe prefer she chose something like the ancient pagan beliefs of Finland because its really interesting)

 

[bumpy_j]

I am agnostic verging towards atheist but religion will always be welcome to explore in my house. I grew up Christian (Jehovas Witness, with my extended family being Catholic) and although I don't follow Christianity, I am grateful that I was taught certain Christian values that I still use to make moral and ethical decisions in day-to-day life.

I grew up in a very ethnically diverse place and have fond memories of celebrating the holidays of Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and Christianity with friends. I plan to take LO to visit various religious places of worship and teach him about traditions of all the major religions of the world. Whilst religion may be the root of many problems and wars, it has also helped us construct a moderately ethical society. I want LO to be able to make informed and philosophical decisions regarding his feelings about why we are here and an openness to religion is a good foundation for that. I personally do not however, want him to be 'God fearing', or intolerant to others by using religion as a cushion. We will also enthuse about Science (OHs mum is a brilliant Science teacher) - we're a very pro Sagan house!

I also love the teachings of Shintoism.

 

[bumpy_j]

I'll be completely honest - I would be fine with ANY religion except something like satanic or Wiccan and perhaps that's wrong. If my child became a Muslim or Buddhist, I would be completely fine with that. There is faith beyond Christianity.

The whole Wiccan/satanic issue is partly because I don't understand the beliefs and because I have childhood arguments engrained in my brain.

I agree with you on this. This is my problem as I was bought up believing any sort of witchcraft or paganism was wrong, and that Satan was the ultimate evil. I would admittedly feel very, very uncomfortable with this sort of belief (I know that there are many misconceptions peddled around about these sorts of faiths - it's simply just my childhood teachings manifesting into a mental block).

 

[AngelUK]

I don't think I would like it if my children believed in anything that acquires suspension of reason and logic. And though I too was brought up Christian, none of the better values it teaches are exclusive to Christianity but are actually based on common sense and human ethics and morals.

 

[Mrs Mc]

I'm atheist. DH doesn't know what he believes. We will be teaching our kids that religion exists in the same way I'm going to teach them that conmen exist-- be aware that there are crazy people out there and don't get sucked in.

I find this very offensive!

I totally respect eveyones beliefs whether I agree/believe or not. I would hope (and am pleased nearly all mums on this thread have expressed) that all children are brought up to respect others.

 

[sequeena]

Thomas will learn about religion in school. If he wants to be part of a faith that's not a problem for me but I won't actively take him to church etc at this age as I don't believe in it.

I do however like the morals (hmm is that the right word?), being good and kind etc.