Car seat question

[Abz1982]

OK, we need to get a new car seat for Emma. She is currently just over 20lbs, and very good at sitting up, and about the size lenght wise of a 9 month old.

So, what car seat would be best? If she is in a rear facing one now her feet are up on the back of the car seat. So will she be front facing? And that means that the seats dont recline obviously.

So in that case, could we get a 9months - 11 years one or would a birth-4 years one be better?

 

[Lisa1302]

I got a combination one, it goes both ways, and as its much bigger than the infant seat she will be able to stay rear facing for much longer.
It isn't the size/weight of them really, its the fact that at 6 months their body isn't able to deal with an impact very well in a forward facing seat, their necks and backs aren't strong enough, it is advised to keep them rear facing til 12 month, or as long as possible.

So I would say birth-4years

 

[Abz1982]

See i do want a RF one for as lnog as possible. My dad goes on about it as its the safest was to travel.

they say to go on weight tho. and she is the weight of a 9mnth old.

and where will she put her legs??

 

[FierceAngel]

im looking at the birth to 4 years ones as luisa is about to get too long for her infant carrier (head almost at the top) her legs have been bent for a while... but she is only just under 18lbs at the moment.. i want her to stay rear facing for max amount of time which will be 29lbs as i cant afford to import a up to 35lb one

does anyone reccomend a decent but not too expensive combi birth to 4 years one? we really cant afford an expensive one but dont want to get a bad one iykwim! we need to get two as oh drops luisa at nursery and i ften pick her up!

xx

sorry hope this isnt hijacking your thread abz!

 

[dizzyspells]

I had a thread about this yesterday,some very imformative things posted on there regarding rear/forward facing.Does not seem to be highlighted here in the UKthough.x

 

[mommyof3co]

See i do want a RF one for as lnog as possible. My dad goes on about it as its the safest was to travel.

they say to go on weight tho. and she is the weight of a 9mnth old.

and where will she put her legs??

I can't recommend a seat there because I have no experience with those, we have different seats. But I would def find the highest rear facing limit you can find. Here is a picture of Hayden 26mo rear facing in a Britax US seat so you can see how he puts his legs

https://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs055.snc3/14264_173867961266_515016266_2989251_3185289_n.jpg

https://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs075.snc3/14264_173867991266_515016266_2989256_2757352_n.jpg

There is another in my siggy He's really comfortable. If you think about it when say they are on the couch leaning back sitting, do they sit legs straight out? Most kids have them bent, it's just comfortable with them. Or when they sleep, many kids sleep with their legs pulled up under them on their tummies. So looking at it from an adult perspective it looks really uncomfy but to kids usually rear facing is actually more comfortable than having their legs hanging off, can cause them to fall asleep. I know Hayden had to go forward for awhile but when we switched him back rear facing it was MUCH happier and more comfortable in his seat

 

[Foogirl]

There are only about 3 or 4 rear facing seats on the market that we could see and none of them seemed particularly good. I wouldn't buy one until there are more to choose from. The stats about rear facing do indicate a slightly more safe position, but it only really applies where there is a rear end collision. Certainly I would say being able to see your LO is a better option. In terms of safety, I'd say getting a FF one which is better rated for safety is better than getting a RF one which has a poorer rating.

We have bought the Maxi Cosi Axiss. It swivels sideways towards the open car door so you can put your LO in it much more easily, then it swivels back so they are front facing. It also reclines from a sitting to a sleeping position.

It was a little bit on the pricey side but as Mr Foo is 6ft4, him trying to put a toddler into a seat in the back of the car would be vey difficult.

ETA: I just looked at Which? reviews on carseats. Of the 4 rear facing group 1 seats, 3 were marked as "Don't buy" because they failed for safety due to poor design. Which? also doesn't recommend any seat which spans more than 2 weight categories as safety will be compromised in one or more of those categories.

 

[mommyof3co]

It's not a "slightly" better rating, they are 500% safer riding rear facing. And it applies to all types of crashes, not just rear end

https://www.car-safety.org/rearface.html

ETA I don't know about there but all seats have to pass the same safety tests so all are completely safe to use as long as you're using them correctly and they are installed right. The best thing to look for is something that fits your car and your child best.

 

[candeur]

Seren's really long, and we have the combination Britax First Plus seat. There is plenty of room for Seren's legs, it's really roomy and she's a year old.

 

[Lisa1302]

Britax & Recaro do some good combi ones - these are thought of as good makes for car seats.

Mothercare have a few to choose from of the combi ones - they have Britax, Concorde, Nania, Jane

Regards the legs...Izzy is 9 months and measures 72cm and she has about 2 inches in hers before they hit the seat. But she could put them how that baby above has his legs

The Jane one is the one I wanted, except they didn't have it in stock when I needed one, typical!
https://www.mothercare.com/Jane-Rac...ing=UTF8&m=A2LBKNDJ2KZUGQ&n=44451031&mcb=core

 

[Foogirl]

It's not a "slightly" better rating, they are 500% safer riding rear facing.
ETA I don't know about there but all seats have to pass the same safety tests so all are completely safe to use as long as you're using them correctly and they are installed right. The best thing to look for is something that fits your car and your child best.

It's all about how you view the statistics. And a safe front facing seat is better than an unsafe rear facing seat. And at the moment, the rear facing seats meet only the basic safety standards. The best front facing ones will out perform them by miles.

It is the same here, all seats have to pass a Eurpoean Standard safety test, but this doesn't necessarily mean they are all as safe as each other. Some do better, some do worse.

I'll give you an example. Which? are a consumer organisation who do independent testing on all sorts of things from kettles to cars. I've just had a look at a video they produced of two front facing car seats, which are on sale in the UK, which have passed the same European Safety rating, in a simulated crash. The difference in how the two perform in the tests is remarkable. The poorest performing seats would certainly cause far more injury than the best ones. The reason they pass the Eurpoean tests is that they are only tested to the equivalent of a 30mph crash, and they don't include a side impact simulation, whereas Which? tests to 40mph and checks for SIP to. I'd love to be able to post this video but Which? is a subscription service and I'm not sure the link would work.

You are absolutely right though that whatever seat you buy must be fitted properly. One of the things Which? also rates on is how easy it is to fit the seats correctly. A poorly designed seat which is difficult to fit and poorly labled, can have a fantastic safety rating but if the human error aspect is taken into account, that can be worthless.

This is no different to any other product you buy built to meet safety specifications. Some will meet the minimum requirements, some will exceed them. Which? are currently campaigning to have the European Safety standards revised.

And it applies to all types of crashes, not just rear end

https://www.car-safety.org/rearface.html

From the link you provided,

Rear-facing carseats may not be quite as effective in a rear end crash, but severe frontal and frontal offset crashes are far more frequent and far more severe than severe rear end crashes

 

[Lisa1302]

It's not a "slightly" better rating, they are 500% safer riding rear facing. And it applies to all types of crashes, not just rear end

https://www.car-safety.org/rearface.html

ETA I don't know about there but all seats have to pass the same safety tests so all are completely safe to use as long as you're using them correctly and they are installed right. The best thing to look for is something that fits your car and your child best.

It's all about how you view the statistics. And a safe front facing seat is better than an unsafe rear facing seat. And at the moment, the rear facing seats meet only the basic safety standards. The best front facing ones will out perform them by miles.

It is the same here, all seats have to pass a Eurpoean Standard safety test, but this doesn't necessarily mean they are all as safe as each other. Some do better, some do worse.

I'll give you an example. Which? are a consumer organisation who do independent testing on all sorts of things from kettles to cars. I've just had a look at a video they produced of two front facing car seats, which are on sale in the UK, which have passed the same European Safety rating, in a simulated crash. The difference in how the two perform in the tests is remarkable. The poorest performing seats would certainly cause far more injury than the best ones. The reason they pass the Eurpoean tests is that they are only tested to the equivalent of a 30mph crash, and they don't include a side impact simulation, whereas which tests to 40mph and checks for SIP to. I'd love to be able to post this video but Which? is a subscription service and I'm not sure the link would work.

This is no different to any other product you buy built to meet safety specifications. Some will meet the minimum requirements, some will exceed them. Which? are currently campaigning to have the European Safety standards revised.

At the end of the day though it doesnt matter how safe a forward facing seat is..the majority of serious collisions are front impact (about 75%) - a baby is safer to be rear facing in that instance (research has proved this) ....a baby's body will not stand up as well in a forward facing seat as a rear facing in a front impact crash.

You can't just look at the safety of the seat - you have to consider the way a baby's body is affected in the crash!

There is little point putting a small infant in the safest forward facing seat..only to have a serious frontal impact..and their poor little body is shot to pieces because it isn't strong enough.

Every single advice organisation says that rear facing is the safest option (up until they are 1 year old) - how can this be argued with?!

 

[mommyof3co]

Well of course some have some benefits...I'm talking from our seats because I really know nothing about yours so I can't say for sure....but here we have lower end seats and higher end seats. BUT none are tested safer than another...they all pass the same tests. Now some have benefits, like say side impact protection that we know is a safety benefit but it still can't be marketed as a safer seat.

I do agree, a forward facing seat being used correctly will be better than a rear facing not. But I have a hard time believing that all of the seats available for rear facing are not good, if that was the case how did they pass the safety tests? If using the seat installed in your car properly and it fits your child correctly it should be very safe. And any rear facing seat being used properly against a forward facing seat used properly for this age group they are much safer rear facing. No seats for sale should be "unsafe", its about using them correctly so they are safe, it's usually user error that makes seats unsafe....if they passed all the safety tests, aren't expired and all that.

 

[Lisa1302]

https://www.car-safety.org/rearface.html

From the link you provided,

Rear-facing carseats may not be quite as effective in a rear end crash, but severe frontal and frontal offset crashes are far more frequent and far more severe than severe rear end crashes

so a rear facing seat is going to be more effective in the crashes which are more frequent and more severe crashes

Stats I have seen say that 4% are rear impact and 75% front impact (the rest side)....I think its obvious that it is safer to have the seat which performs better in 75% of accidents!!!

 

[Foogirl]

Every single advice organisation says that rear facing is the safest option (up until they are 1 year old) - how can this be argued with?!

I'm not arguing that it isn't safer, I'm simply saying that the few rear facing seats on the market here in the UK are LESS safe than the front facing ones. They don't protect a child in a front impact crash as well as a front facing one would.

The ridiculous situation is that all these great manufacturers from Britax to Maxi-Cosi produce very safe rear facing versions of their car seats. The problem is, none of these are for sale in the UK as they think we won't buy them. In fact, Mommy of 3 no doubt has one as Britax generally do very well in the Which? tests.

For me, if it were a simple choice between rear or front facing, I would go for rear facing, but when only one seat on the market offers anything like the same protection (but even then with a fairly low score) as the front facing ones (and that one seat is made for Volvos - which I don't have!!) I'm not about to compromise.

so a rear facing seat is going to be more effective in the crashes which are more frequent and more severe crashes

A rear facing seat maybe. The rear facing seats for sale in the UK? Not according to the Which? safety tests.

 

[mommyof3co]

I guess I'm confused what it is about the front facing seats that you think protect them better? Is it a certain feature they offer that you think offers more protection?

 

[Foogirl]

Now some have benefits, like say side impact protection that we know is a safety benefit but it still can't be marketed as a safer seat.

See, I really do wish I could show you this video with the difference in how a SIP and non SIP seat performs. I would consider it an absolute must, not a benefit. The dummy's head would have smashed a side window and thumped on the car door.

But I have a hard time believing that all of the seats available for rear facing are not good, if that was the case how did they pass the safety tests? If using the seat installed in your car properly and it fits your child correctly it should be very safe. And any rear facing seat being used properly against a forward facing seat used properly for this age group they are much safer rear facing. No seats for sale should be "unsafe", its about using them correctly so they are safe, it's usually user error that makes seats unsafe....if they passed all the safety tests, aren't expired and all that.

Again, I'd love for you to be able to read this piece. I'm not sure, can I quote something off of it? I suppose I can if I don't say which seat it is about..

For group 1 it is installed rearward-facing, and for group 2 use it fits forward-facing. The seat takes up a lot of space in its rearward-facing position, which can cause problems in smaller cars.

Unfortunately, in trying to cater for different uses, it makes too many compromises. This results in poor protection, with the child exposed to fairly high loads in a front crash.

Despite having fairly clear instructions, it is also very complicated to install in the car, making the likelihood of getting it wrong unacceptably high.

Would you want to buy that?

For another one, it says the risk of installing it wrongly is so high, the safety benefits are outweighed. If installed properly it only gives a satisfactory rating.

I don't think it is a case of being "unsafe" but some are definitely safer than others, and in the case of the rear facing ones, the difference between the best performing front facing seat, and the rear facing ones on the market, mean that any benefit from rear facing is all but wiped out.

 

[Foogirl]

I guess I'm confused what it is about the front facing seats that you think protect them better? Is it a certain feature they offer that you think offers more protection?

No, it is the safety tests carried out by this organisation (at 40 mph, with side impacts etc etc)

As an example, they rate the best buy Forward Facing seat as a 4* front impact safety rating. and a 5* side impact safety rating. This means that the number of injuries your child is likely to sustain in a 40mph crash are fewer than in the rear facing seats which only get 2* and 3* comparitavely.

The European tests are carried out on a test bench, not in a simulated crash (the same way as they test NCAP safety ratings for cars)

So, it's not about what feature is best, it is about the overall safety.

What we need in the UK is for manufacturers to start selling their versions of the rear facing seats which are available in the US and the rest of Europe. And for the European safety standards to be far more robust.

 

[mommyof3co]

Actually rear facing in itself offers tons of SIP so even if the seat doesn't actually have it tested and is advertising SIP they are getting that while rear facing. I can't say if I would buy that seat unless I really knew more facts about it. I have the mentality from our seats (US seats) and knowing our seats are all safe if used properly then I would use any of our seats. Britax is no safer (proven atleast) than our cheapest seats. Like we have a $40 seat a Cosco scenera that is just as safe as my $300 seat. In studies and what we know...we can speculate that due to the added things and materials used to make Britax that it might be safer but there is no proof to that. Alot of seats have a high instance of being installed incorrectly...a big one here for that is the Radian...but that's why they have techs to show you how to do it and if you do it it then makes that rear facing seat the safest option when compared to forward facing. The radian is also our highest RF weight limit seat, no other seat goes to 45lbs RF here. Yet it's one of the hardest to install.

But like I've said before the most important thing is that it installs into your car correctly s you CAN install it right every single time. I mean forward facing seats are easier to install so maybe that is a benefit but they can still be installed wrong and be very dangerous, just like a RF seat installed wrong would be. So I don't think using installation is a factor, people need to know how to install their seats no matter which direction.

A RF seat is going to cradle them...a forward facing their head is going to fly forward...no matter what direction your hit from when you are stopped and hit from the rear same as if you were going forward and run into something, your body flies forward. A babies neck isn't able to withstand that, their bones are not strong enough. RF cradles them in the seat protecting them from that force. I have a chart somewhere showing at what ages the bones start to ossify and when they would be able to withstand a crash like that..but I'm not seeing it but I can see if I can find it

 

[mommyof3co]

What we need in the UK is for manufacturers to start selling their versions of the rear facing seats which are available in the US and the rest of Europe. And for the European safety standards to be far more robust.

I totally agree with that, everyone should have access to good, high weight rear facing seats. There is so much research and evidence showing that it is by far the safest and knowing that they should be providing everyone with the seats necc to keep our kids the safest. I wish we could get the Swedish seats over here....they go to 55lbs