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Hi Tink! we'll see. most probably hubby will have to do another test after the course of vitamins. That also means more waiting. On a good side, i'm no longer required to take Metformin. If it is the case of an IUI i'll have injections done (ouch)
 
Also, even though we were told IUI may be the best route we're still trying the clomid as I don't want to rush into treatment if there is any chance it is unnecessary.

xx
 
am begging hubby to start acupuncture; I think it can really make a difference. particularly if IVF is not yet on the picture I need to know we are progressing somewhere. he is so upset he hates needles and people touching him, he does not even like massage
 
Piano, h2b and I take the Aussie version of that (im comes in a his and hers box!) But when we've used it up we'll be switching to elivit and menivit and a)they taste nicer, and b) it's what the fertility clinic recommend.

It sounds mean, but it was easier for us to cope when we thought the problem was him, probably because it's much easier to fix that/get a good result from treatments.

Briss, maybe he's feeling pressured/stressed and that you only want him for sperm, especially after pushing for ivf, thus went out a stress release?
 
Piano, h2b and I take the Aussie version of that (im comes in a his and hers box!) But when we've used it up we'll be switching to elivit and menivit and a)they taste nicer, and b) it's what the fertility clinic recommend.

It sounds mean, but it was easier for us to cope when we thought the problem was him, probably because it's much easier to fix that/get a good result from treatments.

Briss, maybe he's feeling pressured/stressed and that you only want him for sperm, especially after pushing for ivf, thus went out a stress release?

Exil, my problem is, that if i'm not 100% as well, and he has a problem from his side, then it would be v difficult to have a child. But only time will tell. I'm just hanging on to what little hope is left. Hubby is being very brave about it, and very encouraging as well. To tell the least, i have never felt so close to him like this in the past few years. Unfortunately it had to be an unpleasant eposide but i'll stick by him no matter what happens. We wed, for better and for worse, and surely we'll do all we can but i'm not sure about IUI and IVF. I'd consider IUI but i'm confused about IVF. The church here has made a whole fuss about the whole thing, and i've read some conflicting ideas about IUI as well, but i' don't want to think about that yet. i will just rest for the time-being. My eyes are swollen from all the :cry: i think i look like a frog lol!
 
Piano if it helps any (it probably doesn't as its just my opinion) but I believe that God hassnt intentionally given anyone fertility problems- modern times such as alcohol, junk food and contraception has made these happen. Also God enabled someone to create assisted conception to overcome these problems. I truly think you need to do what you think is right (by you and God if you feel that strongly) but frankly its noone else's business- inc the people at church. Big :hugs: xxx
 
Tink is pretty right.

Also, piano, look on the wiki page about the curches official responses to ART. The catholic church is the only one with a problem with ivf (although the pope said it's less morally reprehensible if it's a married couple), and iui is pretty accepted.

50 years ago they would have thrown a fuss over organ transplants being unnatural. They still have issues with mental health treatments.150 years ago they would have had issue with vaccination. The church is always behind medical capabilities.

If the moral and religious aspects are concerning I suggest you read the bible, read the OT with abram and Sara, and god blessing their union (I feel this parallels with ART, as god found a way to make it happen it a manner that would be considered unnatural by the religious leaders of the day, due to Sara's advanced age).

I encourage you to pray about it. Paul (in Romans) tells us that religion and being religous, following the rules and traditions of the church is a bad thing. It is important that you pray and meditate on things, ask God what his plan is.

Another thing is to combat the specific problems that the catholic/orthodox (i know church of st john is the main church in Malta, but those 2 are also pretty big iirc) have with ART. Firstly that it separates the marriage act from that of the conception act. To which I ask, did God physically Fuck Mary? No. Jesus was conceived by means other than the marital act. If it's good enough for our Saviour's mother, it's good enough for me. Also bare in mind that c section was met with similar arguments and is now accepted.

Then we have the fact that the procedure is 'abortive'. This is split in 2. Firstly, unused genetic material is destroyed. This is only true if you do not donate your embryos once you've completed your treatments. We have signed to allow for all our genetic material to be donated to infertile couples once we are not in a position to use it.

The next part is that not all eggs fertilize, not all fertilized eggs grow, and very few stick and be one babies. Well, this is EXACTLY the same as what happens inside the woman of a healthy couple. Most fertilized eggs fail to implant or an early miscarriage occurs. Most couples are oblivious to this. It really is no different. If it fails before the transfer it goes into medical waste instead of a toilet or a tampon.

If you want I can have a more detailed specific discussion with you, and pray for you on this. I am Christian, but I follow the advice of Paul, and try not to blindly follow traditions set be religious leaders. As it is for that reason that Jesus was rejected by the chosen people.

Tink, there have always been people who are infertile, however many of them have issues that would have killed them prior to reaching a reproductive age. I agree that it is our modern life style exasperating the problem though.

Sorry for the long post.
 
Chicky, my quotes weren't wiki, they are what I discussed with my minister. I am low anglican so that might be the main difference. The only off wiki part was the bit about a speech given by the pope last year.
 
Haha Exil i think you were referring to the Knights of St John not the church lol! Malta's majority is Roman catholic. i'm still reading through your posts but i had to correct this as i was laughing lol! :)
 
I tend to agree with you ladies, about ivf and iui, although i would prefer iui than ivf as it is more close to the natural thing. But if it is the case, i'll decide then. Firstly we'll try the vitamins then we'll try iui.

I'll speak to a priest that knows us if it'll help me discuss matters but however, it is our decision first and foremost and that will be the final word.

I don't like the donation/freezing of embryos, not because i'm an egoist but because of a gut feeling i have however i won't ever blame anyone or point fingers to anyone who goes for these procedures, ever!
 
Chicky, and anyone else, I really am sorry if I caused you any offence. It was not my intention. The take away was meant to be "pray on it. Do what is right between you and God, it is noone else's business" (as a non-catholic I was always taught the Catholics believe the catechism is right, and the pope is definitive. Although the flip would be that I agree and follow everything the queen says, which is absurd)

Piano, that's cool. I had the option of donating them to science, and I couldn't do it.
 
Chicky, sorry if i caused all these arguments... i'm sure Exil was just trying to be helpful and not offensive. I don't agree with everything everyone said but i can see everyone's perspective. So please don't go! we're only discussing and thinking out loud. if there's a prob with any of the posts we can delete, or amend right?

I wouldn't just say that the pope is only an 85yr old priest or whatever... he's surely studied and knows his matters as otherwise he wouldn't occupy the post he's in. However, it doesn't mean that we have to agree with everything? we're all different and have our own opinions. they give guidelines and teachings then it's up to us to see if we want to follow or not. It's not easy, especially for someone like me who has been raised in a very religious family, but that doesn't mean that i'm better off than anyone or that i have to be closed/single minded.

Oh well, what a controversy my remark has sparked! lol! come one cheer up ladies, i'm trying to keep myself up as well!
 
OMG ladies, I seem to have missed a lot. Chicky, please do not go, I cant even imagine this thread without you.

IUI/IVF is really tough decision even without adding a religious aspect to it. I just so hope that one way or another we will get our BFPs soon.

afm, My acne got so much worse that I am hiding under my desk so no one sees me, it's that bad. I will go back to my usual vitamins from Monday cos I think they were really helping to clear my face. Will continue with Chinese herbs for a few more weeks. On Sunday is my last acu session but I think I am going to pay for 7 more sessions. hubby is still refusing to go with me.
 

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