CIO - From a Baby's View.

[smokey]

And yet again another thread has turned into the evils of formula bashing.
Is there realy no escape from the argument over and over again.
Maybe a discusion about flowers might not end up being about formula or how we feed babies but I suspect a way would be found to twist it.

No-one's talking about the evils of FFing. It seems like a lot of people want it to be about that though.

I think we are reading differant posts then because its croped up every other post pretty much for the last page when it doesnt need to be seen as the thread was about cio and cc.

 

[Piper84]

And yet again another thread has turned into the evils of formula bashing.
Is there realy no escape from the argument over and over again.
Maybe a discusion about flowers might not end up being about formula or how we feed babies but I suspect a way would be found to twist it.

No-one's talking about the evils of FFing. It seems like a lot of people want it to be about that though.

I think we are reading differant posts then because its croped up every other post pretty much for the last page when it doesnt need to be seen as the thread was about cio and cc.

I just had a quick look cos I thought I was going crazy and no, no-one has mentioned anything about the evils of FFing.

Funnily enough it's the people who apparently don't want this to turn into a debate about FFing who keep bringing up FFing. Everyone else is talking about formula company tactics.

 

[overcomer79]

how old is this article we are discussing????

Psst I had no nurseries available either time I had my kids. I'm in the US as well...They only went to the nursery to be registered then went back to room with me.

 

[TriChick]

FWIW, in my area we have 4 hospitals and none are equipped with a nursery. Lol I wouldn't consider Eastern-Central Georgia to be "progressive" either

 

[midori1999]

And yet again another thread has turned into the evils of formula bashing.
Is there realy no escape from the argument over and over again.
Maybe a discusion about flowers might not end up being about formula or how we feed babies but I suspect a way would be found to twist it.

Not at all, no one has said anything bad about formula milks. Someone entitled how nurseries were linked to formula companies and someone else took that point up.

It is not about formula milk, it is about the companies that make it.

Formula companies are the scum of the earth.

I would classify child abusers and Nazis as the scum of the earth, not formula companies

Wasn't this thread about CIO? lol

Really? Companies who dress their sales reps as nurses to con mothers into thinking they are buying a medical product, who bribe midwives and doctors in developing countries with gifts to push their products onto mothers who can't afford it, who take every opportunity in the developing world
to push their products to mothers who can't afford it and who have no clean, let alone hot water to make it up safely, who deliberately undermine breast feeding women, women who chose to and want to breastfeed and contribute largely to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of babies worldwide every year aren't the scum of the earth?

 

[midori1999]

Oh, not to mention telling a Mother who had been breast feeding live on air (when she didn't know) that breast feeding her baby could pass on HIV or pushing formula of HIV positive Mothers when they know mixed feeding increases the risk of HIV transmission over exclusively breast feeding....

 

[sue_88]

I think its what they used to do, not what they do now.

I've only quoted your one post - but I agree with everything you've said in here.

THE ONLY THING RELEVANT TO THIS DEBATE IS THAT THE ARTICLE IS FROM 1976 AND THEREFORE NOT RELEVANT AT ALL!

Why the hell are you wasting your time arguing about it when times have moved on, the world has changed and recommendations have been updated. That article is so out dated, it is complete bullshit in 2013.

 

[Piper84]

I think its what they used to do, not what they do now.

I've only quoted your one post - but I agree with everything you've said in here.

THE ONLY THING RELEVANT TO THIS DEBATE IS THAT THE ARTICLE IS FROM 1976 AND THEREFORE NOT RELEVANT AT ALL!

Why the hell are you wasting your time arguing about it when times have moved on, the world has changed and recommendations have been updated. That article is so out dated, it is complete bullshit in 2013.

Hospital nurseries still exist, as does the issue of separating mothers from newborns.

 

[smokey]

For goodness sake, who gives a flying fig about formula, formula feeding, formula companies, breastfeeding, or if your feeding your kid glass.
It has FA to do with the original subjuct that was about cio and cc ans would you feel guilty after reading it.
Take that discusion back to where it was the topic, how on earth people can say ir hasnt been mentioned us beyond me.
There has been so many bf, ff threads lately all going round in circles which is fine but when a subject is abour somthing else then keep it that way rather then turning every subject into the same thing

 

[Piper84]

And yet again another thread has turned into the evils of formula bashing.
Is there realy no escape from the argument over and over again.
Maybe a discusion about flowers might not end up being about formula or how we feed babies but I suspect a way would be found to twist it.

Not at all, no one has said anything bad about formula milks. Someone entitled how nurseries were linked to formula companies and someone else took that point up.

It is not about formula milk, it is about the companies that make it.

Formula companies are the scum of the earth.

I would classify child abusers and Nazis as the scum of the earth, not formula companies

Wasn't this thread about CIO? lol

Really? Companies who dress their sales reps as nurses to con mothers into thinking they are buying a medical product, who bribe midwives and doctors in developing countries with gifts to push their products onto mothers who can't afford it, who take every opportunity in the developing world
to push their products to mothers who can't afford it and who have no clean, let alone hot water to make it up safely, who deliberately undermine breast feeding women, women who chose to and want to breastfeed and contribute largely to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of babies worldwide every year aren't the scum of the earth?

You could argue that this is a kind of child abuse.

As for the Nazi comment, this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

[sue_88]

I think its what they used to do, not what they do now.

I've only quoted your one post - but I agree with everything you've said in here.

THE ONLY THING RELEVANT TO THIS DEBATE IS THAT THE ARTICLE IS FROM 1976 AND THEREFORE NOT RELEVANT AT ALL!

Why the hell are you wasting your time arguing about it when times have moved on, the world has changed and recommendations have been updated. That article is so out dated, it is complete bullshit in 2013.

Hospital nurseries still exist, as does the issue of separating mothers from newborns.

And as MANY people have said in this thread, their babies were returned to encourage breastfeeding, and a lot have said their baby never left their side.

A clear sign the world has moved on, regardless of whether these nurseries still exist or not.

 

[Piper84]

I think its what they used to do, not what they do now.

I've only quoted your one post - but I agree with everything you've said in here.

THE ONLY THING RELEVANT TO THIS DEBATE IS THAT THE ARTICLE IS FROM 1976 AND THEREFORE NOT RELEVANT AT ALL!

Why the hell are you wasting your time arguing about it when times have moved on, the world has changed and recommendations have been updated. That article is so out dated, it is complete bullshit in 2013.

Hospital nurseries still exist, as does the issue of separating mothers from newborns.

And as MANY people have said in this thread, their babies were returned to encourage breastfeeding, and a lot have said their baby never left their side.

A clear sign the world has moved on, regardless of whether these nurseries still exist or not.

Because topics on here are only allowed to be debated if they relate directly to members?

 

[sue_88]

Because topics on here are only allowed to be debated if they relate directly to members?

No of course not, however with the WHO recommendations, NHS recommendations, and Health Care in the US etc regarding breastfeeding & newborn care, I would expect the experiences of the ladies commenting on this thread to now be the norm.

Nurseries aren't in the UK (nor were they 24y ago when I was born), and they are being removed / have been removed in the US. They aren't common place anymore therefore this really is a complete waste of time debating something that is very rare through an excerpt from an article that is nearly 40 years out of date.

 

[Piper84]

Because topics on here are only allowed to be debated if they relate directly to members?

No of course not, however with the WHO recommendations, NHS recommendations, and Health Care in the US etc regarding breastfeeding & newborn care, I would expect the experiences of the ladies commenting on this thread to now be the norm.

Nurseries aren't in the UK (nor were they 24y ago when I was born), and they are being removed / have been removed in the US. They aren't common place anymore therefore this really is a complete waste of time debating something that is very rare through an excerpt from an article that is nearly 40 years out of date.

WHO guidelines aren't binding and newborn nurseries are still common all over the world, like in Israel: https://mainstreamparenting.wordpress.com/2008/10/06/rooming-out-can-be-friendly-too/

It may not apply to the US and the UK, but that's beside the point if people feel like talking about it and hardly the whole world. It just seems pretty obnoxious to barge into a thread and start writing in large, bold font that the thread is irrelevant when a lot of people have spent time thinking about it and replying to it. If it's irrelevant, just let it drop down the forum and stop bumping it

 

[socitycourty]

I have never known anyone in real life who has let a newborn CIO. My daughter had colic for her first 5 months....she cried nonstop and I just let her cry in my arms or in the carrier. Let her sleep on me all day and night.

we are FF now and I still would not consider CIO. But at this stage of the constant holding, rocking, etc. most people are saying I should.

the issue of babies being separated from mothers is irrelevant here in the United States. Maybe in other countries like Israel where women are often treated like pieces of shit, these things still happen. But what can we do about it? Until they (and other women in similar countries) reject patriarchal culture nothing can be done.

Regarding formula companies. In these other countries women may not be allowed to BF by their husbands. So they need formula. How is this anyone's fault?

I would reserve "scum of the earth" for people who beat, maim, torture and murder children for religious or superstitious reasons. If your baby was starving and you needed formula, you wouldn't be calling its creators the scum of the earth.

Let's not be dramatic. The whole thread started with the stupid, overly dramatic article about CIO. Then turned into a stupid BF v. FF issue. LIKE USUAL

 

[robinator]

As for the Nazi comment, this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

See? lol

Actually, I'm almost finished with a book about the history of Auschwitz, so that's where my train of thought came from

Nazis are worse than formula companies, end of.

 

[midori1999]

I have never known anyone in real life who has let a newborn CIO. My daughter had colic for her first 5 months....she cried nonstop and I just let her cry in my arms or in the carrier. Let her sleep on me all day and night.

we are FF now and I still would not consider CIO. But at this stage of the constant holding, rocking, etc. most people are saying I should.

the issue of babies being separated from mothers is irrelevant here in the United States. Maybe in other countries like Israel where women are often treated like pieces of shit, these things still happen. But what can we do about it? Until they (and other women in similar countries) reject patriarchal culture nothing can be done.

Regarding formula companies. In these other countries women may not be allowed to BF by their husbands. So they need formula. How is this anyone's fault?

I would reserve "scum of the earth" for people who beat, maim, torture and murder children for religious or superstitious reasons. If your baby was starving and you needed formula, you wouldn't be calling its creators the scum of the earth.

Let's not be dramatic. The whole thread started with the stupid, overly dramatic article about CIO. Then turned into a stupid BF v. FF issue. LIKE USUAL

It's not irrelevant in the U.S at all. Many hospitals there do still have nurseries. You only have to do a quick google to find maternity hospitals advertising nurseries.

As for patriarchal societies.... you realise we all live in one, right?

Obviously you don't class companies who kill babies so they can make a profit scum, that's your prerogative, ill beg to differ.

 

[sue_88]

I have never known anyone in real life who has let a newborn CIO. My daughter had colic for her first 5 months....she cried nonstop and I just let her cry in my arms or in the carrier. Let her sleep on me all day and night.

we are FF now and I still would not consider CIO. But at this stage of the constant holding, rocking, etc. most people are saying I should.

the issue of babies being separated from mothers is irrelevant here in the United States. Maybe in other countries like Israel where women are often treated like pieces of shit, these things still happen. But what can we do about it? Until they (and other women in similar countries) reject patriarchal culture nothing can be done.

Regarding formula companies. In these other countries women may not be allowed to BF by their husbands. So they need formula. How is this anyone's fault?

I would reserve "scum of the earth" for people who beat, maim, torture and murder children for religious or superstitious reasons. If your baby was starving and you needed formula, you wouldn't be calling its creators the scum of the earth.

Let's not be dramatic. The whole thread started with the stupid, overly dramatic article about CIO. Then turned into a stupid BF v. FF issue. LIKE USUAL

It's not irrelevant in the U.S at all. Many hospitals there do still have nurseries. You only have to do a quick google to find maternity hospitals advertising nurseries.

As for patriarchal societies.... you realise we all live in one, right?

Obviously you don't class companies who kill babies so they can make a profit scum, that's your prerogative, ill beg to differ.

Can you please provide clear, scientific evidence of the statement in bold?

If you can't, I suggest you retract such a brash statement immediately.

 

[midori1999]

I have never known anyone in real life who has let a newborn CIO. My daughter had colic for her first 5 months....she cried nonstop and I just let her cry in my arms or in the carrier. Let her sleep on me all day and night.

we are FF now and I still would not consider CIO. But at this stage of the constant holding, rocking, etc. most people are saying I should.

the issue of babies being separated from mothers is irrelevant here in the United States. Maybe in other countries like Israel where women are often treated like pieces of shit, these things still happen. But what can we do about it? Until they (and other women in similar countries) reject patriarchal culture nothing can be done.

Regarding formula companies. In these other countries women may not be allowed to BF by their husbands. So they need formula. How is this anyone's fault?

I would reserve "scum of the earth" for people who beat, maim, torture and murder children for religious or superstitious reasons. If your baby was starving and you needed formula, you wouldn't be calling its creators the scum of the earth.

Let's not be dramatic. The whole thread started with the stupid, overly dramatic article about CIO. Then turned into a stupid BF v. FF issue. LIKE USUAL

It's not irrelevant in the U.S at all. Many hospitals there do still have nurseries. You only have to do a quick google to find maternity hospitals advertising nurseries.

As for patriarchal societies.... you realise we all live in one, right?

Obviously you don't class companies who kill babies so they can make a profit scum, that's your prerogative, ill beg to differ.

Can you please provide clear, scientific evidence of the statement in bold?

If you can't, I suggest you retract such a brash statement immediately.

You can suggest what you want, I'm not going to retract anything.

There is a wealth of information about the subject if you bother to look.

 

[TriChick]

Killing babies?