circumcision?

[Sparrow85]

I think it's a totally pointless discussion, especially on forums where users are from different countries/cultures.

It's one of those things that people have strong opinions on either way because of what is the 'norm' to them.

But by that logic, we shouldn't try to improve breastfeeding rates, or stop people smoking.

True, I just don't think these discussions ever go anywhere and most of the threads end up being locked. Breastfeeding and smoking are not cultural/religious practices. Circumcision seems to be.

For what it's worth, I think it's barbaric and it makes me sad. However, I don't feel I can judge because I've never had any first hand experience and it is not something that would even cross my mind.

 

[weejenb]

It's definitely a country/culture thing - in the UK, I don't think anyone I've ever known/heard of has had their boy circumcised, or had a friend tell me they've been with a boy who was.

Personally, I don't see a need for it - hygiene wise, as long as boys wash everyday (which you should be doing anyway) its not a problem. As far as looks go, uncircumcised certainly doesn't bother me, it actually looks normal too me, I'd probably think a circumcised one looks strange

And honestly, I find the thought of it a bit cruel, and can't imagine putting my own wee boy through it. I know that people have their cultural/religious reasons for doing it, but personally I could never find reason enough to do it (unless medically necessary)

 

[patch2006uk]

I think it's a totally pointless discussion, especially on forums where users are from different countries/cultures.

It's one of those things that people have strong opinions on either way because of what is the 'norm' to them.

But by that logic, we shouldn't try to improve breastfeeding rates, or stop people smoking.

True, I just don't think these discussions ever go anywhere and most of the threads end up being locked. Breastfeeding and smoking are not cultural/religious practices. Circumcision seems to be.

For what it's worth, I think it's barbaric and it makes me sad. However, I don't feel I can judge because I've never had any first hand experience and it is not something that would even cross my mind.

I'll agree they're not religious, but breastfeeding and smoking really are cultural things. It's not the 'norm' to breastfeed in the UK or USA after the first 6 weeks. Culturally, you're expected to formula feed. Some countries have incredibly high smoking rates. You're expected to smoke. Some countries have high circ rates. You're expected to circumcise. I don't think it's that different - just a kind of mass peer pressure to conform.

The religious aspect is trickier, but I've certainly heard of a jewish ritual that is starting to take the place of circumcision. It occurs at the same age, and the same religious officials carry it out, but they don't actually circumcise. Hopefully it will catch on!

 

[Sparrow85]

I think it's a totally pointless discussion, especially on forums where users are from different countries/cultures.

It's one of those things that people have strong opinions on either way because of what is the 'norm' to them.

But by that logic, we shouldn't try to improve breastfeeding rates, or stop people smoking.

True, I just don't think these discussions ever go anywhere and most of the threads end up being locked. Breastfeeding and smoking are not cultural/religious practices. Circumcision seems to be.

For what it's worth, I think it's barbaric and it makes me sad. However, I don't feel I can judge because I've never had any first hand experience and it is not something that would even cross my mind.

I'll agree they're not religious, but breastfeeding and smoking really are cultural things. It's not the 'norm' to breastfeed in the UK or USA after the first 6 weeks. Culturally, you're expected to formula feed. Some countries have incredibly high smoking rates. You're expected to smoke. Some countries have high circ rates. You're expected to circumcise. I don't think it's that different - just a kind of mass peer pressure to conform.

The religious aspect is trickier, but I've certainly heard of a jewish ritual that is starting to take the place of circumcision. It occurs at the same age, and the same religious officials carry it out, but they don't actually circumcise. Hopefully it will catch on!

I'll stand corrected then. The way I see it though, is that breastfeeding is proven to be better for baby and I don't think even people that formula feed can argue that fact. I don't see anything wrong with formula feeding but I know that breast is best. I also know that no good can come from smoking whilst pregnant and anyone who argues that is quite frankly, an idiot.

I don't think circumcision is one of those practices where it has been proven to be better for a man. There are arguments for both sides and personally, any arguments for it are easily argued against.

 

[gryphongrl]

Here's some information that anyone choosing circumcision might want to check out:
<warning - gross>
https://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/

I am not meaning to be inflammatory with posting this link. I honestly did not know what I was going to do until I started doing the research, and once I found there is no medical reason, and this is what it consists of, it made the decision pretty easy.

 

[Heather1]

I am definitely part of the minority here, but I am from the US and I will NOT be altering my son.

Since this is an opinion thread, I will share mine as I have several reasons for leaving my son intact and hope that more people in the US begin to evolve away from permanently changing the anatomy of their kids.

1) His Dad isn't cut. Nope. Here in the US, my giant, muscular, sexy, manly man is 100% uncut and his penis rocks. As a PP said, they all look the same when erect, but as yet another PP said, don't they all look kind of weird all the time anyways?

2) I like uncut penises, but IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I LIKE!!! Aesthetically speaking, I wouldn't alter a baby's appearance just for the sake of how it looks. I prefer men to have dark hair... If my son is born a blonde, I wouldn't color his hair, etc. (You get my point - it isn't about what I like...).

3) Sex with an uncut penis is better for both of us. I hate thinking in terms of my son sexually pleasing a woman (or hell.. maybe even a man) one day, but this is real life and hopefully he grows up to have a fulfilling life in all spheres... I wouldn't want to hinder his ability to have great sex. I've had sex with many men with altered penises and just one with an unaltered penis. Once I had sex with that unaltered penis, I haven't stopped for 7+ years! Meow!

4) We are not Jewish, nor are we Muslim. We are both agnostic, as we are not entirely convinced by any religion... So no doctrine will mandate the permanent physical state our son's penis, and we like it that way.

5) Cleaner? Please. I am sure my vagina would be "cleaner" if I had my labia removed. Is that enough reason? I clean myself well and regularly... I think all people with access to clean water and soap should practice good hygiene. As a parent, I will teach him to wash his penis... And his armpits, and his butt crack, and behind his ears. His dad's penis isn't dirty, he's never had any infections, nor has his life been complicated by being in his natural state. Thats is such a puritan, old world way of thinking.

6) STD's come from sex, not foreskins (Guns don't kill people, people kill people). Having unprotected sex with an infected person spreads STD's, don't blame the penis. Wearing a condom is SAFER, less painful, less permanent, etc. than cutting off the skin. I will teach my son to wear one. Every single time. (STD point is now rendered pointless.) STD protection is NOT a valid excuse for circumcision.

7) Isn't medically necessary... You know, unless it ever is. I am not having an epidural or a planned c-section because it is not medically necessary (unless it ever is)... That is my attitude toward medical intervention. In the US it is way too commonplace and we don't let our healthy bodies just be.

8) Irreversible. He can have it cut off one day (if he wants to). However, he cannot have it put back on if he wants to. How about if I let HIM make his own choices regarding what permanent and unnecessary procedures he has done to his body? Sounds good.

9) Can't find a good reason to do it. Oh, most other people in the US do it? Is that the message I want to send my boy? Nah. It's small-picture. Most of the people in the WORLD don't do it... What be so ethnocentric to think that our way is best (and without good reason)?

So for us, it isn't even a discussion and I am VERY lucky that his father isn't arguing against me on this. I know my view is a little different than the vast majority, but I hope there is a shift in attitude here about arbitrarily anatomically changing our kids without cause.

My tiny opinion does not effect you or anyone else... Please do not break my ribs if you disagree. Muchas gracias.

 

[aliss]

1) His Dad isn't cut. Nope. Here in the US, my giant, muscular, sexy, manly man is 100% uncut and his penis rocks. As a PP said, they all look the same when erect, but as yet another PP said, don't they all look kind of weird all the time anyways?
.

I love you! And I would describe my husband the same way. Is it wrong that he's going to be home in 20 minutes and now I'm kind of hot & bothered???

We will not be circumcising our son - just like we didn't with #1. It's not common here in Canada (French Canada - it is more common in English areas - except for the Jewish and Muslim pocket populations of Montreal). There's no benefits to it for us.

But I don't care what others do...

 

[TattooedMamma]

Here's some information that anyone choosing circumcision might want to check out:
<warning - gross>
https://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/

I am not meaning to be inflammatory with posting this link. I honestly did not know what I was going to do until I started doing the research, and once I found there is no medical reason, and this is what it consists of, it made the decision pretty easy.

Aw that link has actually made me feel really sad.. poor babies

 

[XJessicaX]

Here's some information that anyone choosing circumcision might want to check out:
<warning - gross>
https://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/

I am not meaning to be inflammatory with posting this link. I honestly did not know what I was going to do until I started doing the research, and once I found there is no medical reason, and this is what it consists of, it made the decision pretty easy.

I cant believe that its not always common practice to use a local anaesthetic! That makes me cringe and now I feel upset for all the babies who had to go through that pain!

 

[Jaylynne]

My LO is circumcised. I do not think it is barbaric or on the same terms as female mutilation. No parent choosing to circumcise is trying to erase any sexual pleasure for their LO which is what female circumcision is used for. Those are fighting words and very insensitive.

I researched the pros and cons but left it up to DH. He is cut. Every guy I've been with is cut. No one has had a problem with ED, sexual satisfaction or stimulation. I don't think one looks "prettier" than the other. A penis is a penis and not interesting unless ready to let's admit it, they're not very attractive things.

LO didn't have issues with his circumcision. He cried from the needle more than the procedure. Hell he cried way more getting shots at his first pediatrician appointment.

I left it up to DH and he wanted to have it done. I wasn't very thrilled seeing the procedure but I don't regret it. DHs family has a history of late medically necessary circumcisions.

It's ok to say you don't like it or think it's necessary. It's ok that cultures do things differently. But it's not ok to be disrespectful of others choices and tell them they are mutilating their baby. Like it or not, it still is a parents choice, not yet the babies. I don't know any cut man who regrets it.

 

[ttc_lolly]

That is where the major arguement is I think - believing you have rights to choose what is cut off your baby. I don't think any of us have that right.

 

[Heather1]

That is where the major arguement is I think - believing you have rights to choose what is cut off your baby. I don't think any of us have that right.

I agree. They are your baby, but they are their own person. Nicely put.

 

[TattooedMamma]

Disrespectful because I hate the thought of a baby going through a completely unnecessary painful procedure just because it's their parents choice?

That's my point.. the child hasn't asked for this! And I bet many would change their minds if asked as a teenager do they want to go through it with no pressure from parents culture or religion.

In my opinion it is mutilation, it's something that is unnecessary and irreversible.

 

[JCh]

EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion. And EVERYONE has an opinion for the most part.
These forums are supposed to be places of a neutral setting where people can say what they believe without being belittled or told off. This doesn't seem to be the case as North America, UK, and all countries have differing belief on many topics.
ANYONE should be able to state their decision and why they chose it. You don't have to agree or tell them u disagree other than posting your OWN statement.

Can't we all just stick to being civil REGARDLESS of others choices?

 

[icklemonster]

The thought of doing something so horrific to a tiny baby unless for medical reasons actually has bought me close to tears reading this thread. I am genuinely shocked, I had no idea this was a common practice outside of religious or medical reasons in the USA. I simply do not agree with such a practice. I don't care if it's 'my' child, it's 'their' penis, and it should be their decision if they want to keep their foreskin. I won't do anything that can't be physically changed to my child unless there are strong medical grounds.

 

[oh_so_blessed]

Wow, some strong opinions here for sure.

Seeing as complications for circumcisions are relatively rare, and most men don't seem to be sad about the loss of their foreskin, why is it that you think this is such a serious faux pas? Just because it is not natural, does not mean it is not called for, as has been said, there is research that has swayed toward it being medically justified. Now, an argument to have surgery unnecessarily would be a good one, because surgery can have complications in any case. But, we give kids vaccines that can have complications because we think it is the best thing for them. Even though some of the diseases are insanely rare now, people still do this. Is anyone faulting them? What if their child had a serious complication from the vaccine? It happens. Rare, yes, but so are complications from circumcisions.

Also, I don't think it's fair to say that if someone has religious reason they have more right to do this than a person without religious reason. That is really backwards. If deafening children were religious practice, would that be okay? No, it wouldn't. If circumcision were a serious offense that caused permanent damage to a person then it would not be okay, religiously supported or not. Fact is, though, that men who have undergone this not only don't feel they have been damaged, but they often support the practice in others. They are happy that they are cut and it doesn't cause them to be deformed in a way that hinders them from normal activity. My OH is glad he is circumcised. It is the loss of a small section of loose skin, not the loss of an arm or leg. People really need to get a bit of perspective I think. jmo.

 

[Weeplin]

No. Never. Why do so many people think it's ok to put babies through cruel, painful and unnecessary procedure? It's up there with FGM in my opinion, not in regards to reasons but in regards that it is mutilation.

If it was medically needed then yes but any other reason is not good enough.

This is just my little opinion though in a very big world.

 

[ttc_lolly]

Vaccinations are another topic (I am not against, although after plenty of research I have delayed with DD's and plan to do the same this time round) but I don't think vacc's are comparable to circ at all. For starters, the diseases vaccinations protect us against are so rare nowadays thanks to vaccinations and herd immunity. We in the Western world never started vaccinating over something quite silly - these diseases were and still are a real threat, however circumcision came about in western society to discourage men from masturbating (by desensitising their penises). They (victorian era) believed this caused insanity, epilepsy, etc. When you look at it like that, the 2 being compared are laughable!

Edit: Just wanted to add that I don't agree with circ whatsoever, but I think people's reasonings of it being ''traditional'' (see the tradition behind it above) and because they want their kids to fit in is just odd.

 

[patch2006uk]

Have a read of this article
https://www.icgi.org/2010/04/infant-circumcision-causes-100-deaths-each-year-in-us/

It states that as many infants die annually from complications stemming from a circumcision as die of SIDS.

It's not risk free. It's an operation. An unnecessary operation in the vast majority of cases.

 

[oh_so_blessed]

um, I thought they had found circumcized penises mummified in ancient Egypt. I *think* the practice predates the Victorian era.

As to how vaccinations came about, I'm not saying it was silly. I'm just saying that some of these diseases are now so rare that it is possible the side effects should be further considered as the rarity of the disease begins to approach the rarity of the side-effects. In any case, yes, vaccinations are a different topic. But, I don't see it as irrelevant. To put a child at risk of side-effects from vaccinations when the disease they might be getting is rare is similar to putting a child at risk of surgery when the risk of complications later due to not having said surgery are rare. I just think it's a little odd that people will argue because someone is missing a piece of skin rather than the real argument which is putting a child at risk in surgery. And, I think perhaps you're not seeing that putting a child at risk for a serious side-effect from vaccination if the disease is rare is also something that should be considered.

Regardless, I think I've made my points now, so feel free to continue to argue it. I'm sure that any future arguments are likely repetitive and it is likely I've already had the opportunity to address them, so I'll give the floor over now.

To OP, here's hoping you feel comfortable and confident with whatever you choose to do. I think many of these threads have been locked time and again, so if you're interested you could probably search titles on BnB for the term circumcision to see if anything else has been added. But, at this point I think it's all been covered.