Controversial Curiosity

[pip holder]

It's so very difficult nowadays, I was always told -

don't hit back - tell a teacher (mum)
If they hit you, hit them back - harder (dad)

I would worry, as others have said that no matter how well trained my LO is in self defence, martial arts etc, with the advent of such blase knife crime around these days - will that protect him?
I don't want him being a victim, nor do I want him to die trying to prove that he isn't one.

I agree that he should know how to defend himself, but when all else fails, how to diffuse a situation verbally will get him a lot further, and running away is never wrong if your life depends on it imo

And if he would ever dare to bully anyone, or even ignore it going on around him - I would truly be devastated and we would have a LOT of work to do

 

[Mummy2Asher]

Ooh ash is starting next term! He's 4. But at nursery still as he's a sept baby.
I was never bullied but I know how violent bullying can get now. Asher has never hit and even if someone hits him he won't hit back and shouts no that's naughty. Which makes me proud he won't hit but then worries incase of bullies! He does however make soo many friends and has a troop of lil girlfriends that follow him around! So cute! ,,,I'm rambling....
So he is starting a defence/martial arts class at his nursery and I think it's great. He also does rugby, ballet and music class, I think this is the last activity he will do as he does so many now!

 

[BabyJayne]

I think it's a great idea to get children involved in martial arts etc. I didn't do any of this as a child, neither did my brothers, by my DH did, and now his nephew, who is 8, is going to the same class he did (unbelievably, being taught by the same instructor who taught my DH...the guy is in his 50s and looks about 12...maybe martial arts keeps you young!). The emphasis for the younger kids seems to be on discipline, concentration, responsibility, focus and defence/disarm moves. Of course, there are moves which involve scoring points by making contact with the other person (in a competition say), but they are taught that they are responsible for their actions, and the intent is never to hurt, but simply to score. Aside from that, they are taught how to block, hold etc - which is something that can be transferred to the outside world in that if they were ever in a situation where they were going to be attacked they could defend themselves. I would much prefer this to happen, instead of hit back and hit harder.
Obviously, that would be in an ideal world - which is far from reality. But I think the mental skills that are taught through martial arts are what can really benefit children, as opposed to the physical skills.

 

[louandivy]

Girls can be so mean

My sister is very beautiful but also quite shy and in secondary school the 'popular' girls decided they didn't like her, they were so mean. But one day one of them invited Finola (my sister) to her birthday party and Fin was soo excited she bought her a present, came back an hour later in tears. She had turned up and all the girls started laughing and said 'you didnt think we really wanted you to come did you?' She just cried for hours saying 'why don't they like me?' I was sooooooooooooo furious but Finola was the bigger person and ignored it, she ended up leaving that school and is now an art student at Camberwell! I hope Ivy never experences anything like that but if she does I will grit my teeth and encourage her to rise above it.

 

[BabyJayne]

Girls can be so mean

My sister is very beautiful but also quite shy and in secondary school the 'popular' girls decided they didn't like her, they were so mean. But one day one of them invited Finola (my sister) to her birthday party and Fin was soo excited she bought her a present, came back an hour later in tears. She had turned up and all the girls started laughing and said 'you didnt think we really wanted you to come did you?' She just cried for hours saying 'why don't they like me?' I was sooooooooooooo furious but Finola was the bigger person and ignored it, she ended up leaving that school and is now an art student at Camberwell! I hope Ivy never experences anything like that but if she does I will grit my teeth and encourage her to rise above it.

That's awful! The teenage years can be so hard - I'm glad I never have to do them again! I wasn't bullied, but I think we all go through some tough times at school one way or another. One day everything is great, the next someone told someone that you said something about someone etc etc! Girls can be so bitchy. I too hope Madeline never goes through anything like that...and also that she isn't one who dishes out anything like that. I am NOT looking forward to those years at all. Why can't they stay all teeny and cute, where you can keep them safe with you all the time

 

[louandivy]

I know I seriously don't know how I will keep my cool if Ivy is ever picked on, the thought of it makes my blood boil now!

 

[xemmax]

louandivy - sorry this is totally OT but my middle name is finola, i've never met anyone with that name!

 

[smokey]

I would like Brian to learn some form of martial arts because I think if learnt correctly it can go along way to them leaning self control and respect.

Im not as thrilled on kick boxing though as OH 7 year old cousin and my friends 9 year old are both learning it and all I can see in them is they are learning how to kick harder.
Thats the last thing I think kids need is to learn how to kick harder but that may just be them or the way they are being taught so id have to see a good example of how it can be used responsably by that age range before id have a different view on it.

And to put it simply if I ever found out he was being a bully or was abusing being taught martial arts then he wouldnt see outside his bedroom walls for a very long time along with any other suitable punishment I could think of at the time.
I do not believe in the "oh my son would never do a thing like that" and ignore it type of thing.

 

[annawrigley]

I would like Brian to learn some form of martial arts because I think if learnt correctly it can go along way to them leaning self control and respect.

Im not as thrilled on kick boxing though as OH 7 year old cousin and my friends 9 year old are both learning it and all I can see in them is they are learning how to kick harder.
Thats the last thing I think kids need is to learn how to kick harder but that may just be them or the way they are being taught so id have to see a good example of how it can be used responsably by that age range before id have a different view on it.

And to put it simply if I ever found out he was being a bully or was abusing being taught martial arts then he wouldnt see outside his bedroom walls for a very long time along with any other suitable punishment I could think of at the time.
I do not believe in the "oh my son would never do a thing like that" and ignore it type of thing.

HATE that kind of attitude!

Hmmm, its such a hard one I was bullied at secondary school, and i never defended myself. I only had 1 friend for the first 2.5 years there and then made new friends (who although they got me into skipping school to drink and take drugs were good friends!).

I used to sit next to 'the popular boy' in some lessons and we started to get on really well, even though we were in totally different 'leagues'. All his friends used to take the mick out of him for getting on with me, because i was a 'geek' (because i was well-spoken and had more than 2 brain cells to rub together ) and one of them set up a fake email address pretending to be him, started sending me loads of emails saying he liked me and we should meet up and he'd dump his gf for me and loads of stuff. I used to email 'him' loads! Anyway even though thankfully it was never really made a public thing, it suddenly dawned on me that he was still using his old email address not mentioning any of these things to me so it was his friends doing it to take the piss out of me! I felt soooo stupid!

Honestly i dont think martial arts would help to prevent bullying, or to protect them in the situation. My brother (13) did tai jitsu for quite a while and was 1 belt off a black belt then packed it in. He is really shy and self conscious and i cant ever see him 'using' it to his advantage. I think if he got picked on he'd just let it happen like i did
I think its all about confidence, no-one ever picks on the confident kid! Sorry to use redheads as an example! But the 'geeky' ginger kid will get picked on regardless of whether they hit back or not, in fact if they hit back it would probably make the bullies kill themselves laughing. Ive seen it happen!
But the confident ginger kid who's in the popular group would never get bullied, because of how he puts himself across. Even if the geeky ginger kid was getting bullied for his ginger hair, thats not what the bullies are picking on, its his insecurity! Its the same with everything though... Glasses, overweight, spots, tall, short... At my school there was at least 1 person with each of those who got bullied, but also at least 1 in the 'popular' group It really is all about confidence and i hope Noah is confident enough that if he did ever get bullied he would give a witty comeback and make the bully look like an idiot. Not fight back.

It would be different if it was when he was a bit older and a physical fight in town for example, like xemmax mentioned (so sorry to hear that happened to your OH btw! good job he could handle himself!). I would definitely want him to fight back in a situation like that.

 

[smokey]

I would like Brian to learn some form of martial arts because I think if learnt correctly it can go along way to them leaning self control and respect.

Im not as thrilled on kick boxing though as OH 7 year old cousin and my friends 9 year old are both learning it and all I can see in them is they are learning how to kick harder.
Thats the last thing I think kids need is to learn how to kick harder but that may just be them or the way they are being taught so id have to see a good example of how it can be used responsably by that age range before id have a different view on it.

And to put it simply if I ever found out he was being a bully or was abusing being taught martial arts then he wouldnt see outside his bedroom walls for a very long time along with any other suitable punishment I could think of at the time.
I do not believe in the "oh my son would never do a thing like that" and ignore it type of thing.

HATE that kind of attitude!

Hmmm, its such a hard one I was bullied at secondary school, and i never defended myself. I only had 1 friend for the first 2.5 years there and then made new friends (who although they got me into skipping school to drink and take drugs were good friends!).

I used to sit next to 'the popular boy' in some lessons and we started to get on really well, even though we were in totally different 'leagues'. All his friends used to take the mick out of him for getting on with me, because i was a 'geek' (because i was well-spoken and had more than 2 brain cells to rub together ) and one of them set up a fake email address pretending to be him, started sending me loads of emails saying he liked me and we should meet up and he'd dump his gf for me and loads of stuff. I used to email 'him' loads! Anyway even though thankfully it was never really made a public thing, it suddenly dawned on me that he was still using his old email address not mentioning any of these things to me so it was his friends doing it to take the piss out of me! I felt soooo stupid!

Honestly i dont think martial arts would help to prevent bullying, or to protect them in the situation. My brother (13) did tai jitsu for quite a while and was 1 belt off a black belt then packed it in. He is really shy and self conscious and i cant ever see him 'using' it to his advantage. I think if he got picked on he'd just let it happen like i did
I think its all about confidence, no-one ever picks on the confident kid! Sorry to use redheads as an example! But the 'geeky' ginger kid will get picked on regardless of whether they hit back or not, in fact if they hit back it would probably make the bullies kill themselves laughing. Ive seen it happen!
But the confident ginger kid who's in the popular group would never get bullied, because of how he puts himself across. Even if the geeky ginger kid was getting bullied for his ginger hair, thats not what the bullies are picking on, its his insecurity! Its the same with everything though... Glasses, overweight, spots, tall, short... At my school there was at least 1 person with each of those who got bullied, but also at least 1 in the 'popular' group It really is all about confidence and i hope Noah is confident enough that if he did ever get bullied he would give a witty comeback and make the bully look like an idiot. Not fight back.

It would be different if it was when he was a bit older and a physical fight in town for example, like xemmax mentioned (so sorry to hear that happened to your OH btw! good job he could handle himself!). I would definitely want him to fight back in a situation like that.

That is a good point but there is a huge differance between getting picked on and actualy being attacked and at least with knowing how to deffend themselves it would at least give them a chance.
I would never expect Brian to knock someone to the ground just for calling him a name but if someone was to jump on him or threaten him with a knive (a sad reality in this world) id feel much better for him that he stood a chance.

I was attacked by a girl in school who kicked me in the stomach and kept trying to kick me, yet another example of someone missusing learning how to kickbox and the only way I could get her to stop was to grab her by the hair and pull her to the ground as I figured if she wasnt on her feet she couldnt kick me as easy.
I earnt a hell of alot of respect that day off of other kids even a fair few of them where originaly her friends and wanted nothing to do with her after she attacked me but it earnt me a hell of alot of grief from her for years after even to the point where her and some friends trapped me at a empty train station threatening to kick hell out of me, I only escaped because another train pulled up and alot of people got off and I ran up the staires with the crowd.

 

[Kalah]

I would like Brian to learn some form of martial arts because I think if learnt correctly it can go along way to them leaning self control and respect.

Im not as thrilled on kick boxing though as OH 7 year old cousin and my friends 9 year old are both learning it and all I can see in them is they are learning how to kick harder.
Thats the last thing I think kids need is to learn how to kick harder but that may just be them or the way they are being taught so id have to see a good example of how it can be used responsably by that age range before id have a different view on it.

And to put it simply if I ever found out he was being a bully or was abusing being taught martial arts then he wouldnt see outside his bedroom walls for a very long time along with any other suitable punishment I could think of at the time.
I do not believe in the "oh my son would never do a thing like that" and ignore it type of thing.

HATE that kind of attitude!

Hmmm, its such a hard one I was bullied at secondary school, and i never defended myself. I only had 1 friend for the first 2.5 years there and then made new friends (who although they got me into skipping school to drink and take drugs were good friends!).

I used to sit next to 'the popular boy' in some lessons and we started to get on really well, even though we were in totally different 'leagues'. All his friends used to take the mick out of him for getting on with me, because i was a 'geek' (because i was well-spoken and had more than 2 brain cells to rub together ) and one of them set up a fake email address pretending to be him, started sending me loads of emails saying he liked me and we should meet up and he'd dump his gf for me and loads of stuff. I used to email 'him' loads! Anyway even though thankfully it was never really made a public thing, it suddenly dawned on me that he was still using his old email address not mentioning any of these things to me so it was his friends doing it to take the piss out of me! I felt soooo stupid!

Honestly i dont think martial arts would help to prevent bullying, or to protect them in the situation. My brother (13) did tai jitsu for quite a while and was 1 belt off a black belt then packed it in. He is really shy and self conscious and i cant ever see him 'using' it to his advantage. I think if he got picked on he'd just let it happen like i did
I think its all about confidence, no-one ever picks on the confident kid! Sorry to use redheads as an example! But the 'geeky' ginger kid will get picked on regardless of whether they hit back or not, in fact if they hit back it would probably make the bullies kill themselves laughing. Ive seen it happen!
But the confident ginger kid who's in the popular group would never get bullied, because of how he puts himself across. Even if the geeky ginger kid was getting bullied for his ginger hair, thats not what the bullies are picking on, its his insecurity! Its the same with everything though... Glasses, overweight, spots, tall, short... At my school there was at least 1 person with each of those who got bullied, but also at least 1 in the 'popular' group It really is all about confidence and i hope Noah is confident enough that if he did ever get bullied he would give a witty comeback and make the bully look like an idiot. Not fight back.

It would be different if it was when he was a bit older and a physical fight in town for example, like xemmax mentioned (so sorry to hear that happened to your OH btw! good job he could handle himself!). I would definitely want him to fight back in a situation like that.

I totally agree there, I remember in school there was a short, fat, openly gay boy with glasses and braces and he was very confident and had this "I don't care what you think of me I'm awesome anyway" attitude, he was really popular! I didn't much like him though, but that was just because his attitude was also slightly "i'm better than you" which I really didn't like.

 

[Breezy]

I think this is a great thread and although I am not supposed to be over here I feel compelled to say something on the subject...

My husband was overweight in middle school/highschool. He was also the "geek" and kept to himself. He says he hated school and could not wait to go home and get away from the nasty people. He even used to get physically sick because of the apprehension of going back to school. Until about 2 weeks ago his mother did not even know he was every bullied or teased because my husband wanted to be a "man" and just take it.

To this day he is extremely socially awkward, does not trust people (other than myself and a select few family members), self conscious, etc etc. I hope with all my heart and soul that I will be able to be a good enough mother (not saying my mother in law was NOT a good enough mother) to where my son will come to me if he is being teased or bullied so I can either help him figure out ways in which he may make the situation better or so I can intervene.

My husband has since lost a TON of weight and looks AMAZING- not that he didn't look gorgeous before (IMO) but he is still scarred because of his past.

 

[louandivy]

louandivy - sorry this is totally OT but my middle name is finola, i've never met anyone with that name!

I was just saying yesterday that I've never heard anyone with the name before...weird! I think its a beautiful name though

 

[redpoppy]

Definitely martial arts here! Sorry i haven't read the thread yet. But all children will be taught to defend themselves and to never start a fight. If we can't afford martial arts at that stage then it will be done at home. I was told "if anyone hits you hit them back harder" and taught how to punch and although i never got into a real fight it did give me confidence and i carried myself differently.

 

[redpoppy]

If my son were the bully, I would pull his butt out of school and home school him. I have zero tolerance for it.. I would remove him from the situation.

If he were to be bullied (depending on the age and circumstance) I would handle the situation by going to the school and parent and teach him self defense (if it were a physical bullying).

One thing I really want my son to embrace is standing up for other people, too. So many people just let bullies pick or harm others... I hope he is a strong enough person to not only stick up for himself, but others.

I just wanted to say this post really resonated with me. I agree with everything you've said here. Both me and one of my brothers got into scraps at school because we were chasing other kids round the playground demanding explanations on why they picked on so and so.

However this was in primary school. Secondary school was a whole other ball game. Things can get really mean in secondary school.

I do think however that there tended to be "bullies" a lot of the time who picked on a whole range of kids and when they got their comeuppance most of the kids including their "support" tended to be very happy about it.

I remember a boy attacking a friend of mine in secondary school and me trying to defend her got beaten up aswell. Anyway friends boyfriend went and beat the crap out of this bully and all he got were congratulations from everyone including the bully's "friends". It was strange because he wasn't very big but everyone was scared of him. Weird how an attitude is all it takes to make a bully.

 

[xemmax]

louandivy - sorry this is totally OT but my middle name is finola, i've never met anyone with that name!

I was just saying yesterday that I've never heard anyone with the name before...weird! I think its a beautiful name though

throughout school i told everyone i had no middle name to avoid the prospect of bullying. it's so unusual, i didn't want to stand out. now i love it! it's such a pretty name. my brothers also have irish middle names, padraig, and dualta, which is why we gave oliver his middle name (ciarán).

 

[Farie]

As someone who suffored bullying throughout both primary and secondary school (predominantly emotional - and I was a weird speccy eyed, odd named kid ) I have to say I don't think any type of 'training' or martial arts could have helped me fend them off. I moved schools over 3 times to try to get away from it ... teachers were useless, my um made it worse by causing a fuss and drawing attention to me, and I didn't help myself by becoming more and more introverted, booky and withdrawn and making myself an easy target.

However, what martial arts might have done was given me a 'niche' something I felt good at, something that made me different but in a good way, given me inner confidence and the feeling I had the right to walk tall and not get shoved about. It is more from that point of view that I would like Boo to do some form of martial art, for the confidence, the discipline and the solidarity of being part of something.

 

[Foogirl]

However, what martial arts might have done was given me a 'niche' something I felt good at, something that made me different but in a good way, given me inner confidence and the feeling I had the right to walk tall and not get shoved about. It is more from that point of view that I would like Boo to do some form of martial art, for the confidence, the discipline and the solidarity of being part of something.

I don't think it needs to be martial arts. Being a part of any team / group and building confidence is always a good thing for an introverted child. Whether it be football, or the orchestra, it can really help.

 

[ILoveShoes]

However, what martial arts might have done was given me a 'niche' something I felt good at, something that made me different but in a good way, given me inner confidence and the feeling I had the right to walk tall and not get shoved about. It is more from that point of view that I would like Boo to do some form of martial art, for the confidence, the discipline and the solidarity of being part of something.

I don't think it needs to be martial arts. Being a part of any team / group and building confidence is always a good thing for an introverted child. Whether it be football, or the orchestra, it can really help.

I agree with this.

 

[chubbin]

Interesting topic. I want to add a word of caution:

I was bullied by my own father into doing athletics from the age of 11-16. I didnt mind trying athletics, but when I said I didnt fancy going to another training session, that's when the problems started. I was forced to do athletics, and to be good at it, and if I didnt 'try my hardest' I was subjected to long lectures on the virtues of commitment and trying my best. It has put a big strain on my relationship with both my parents (I resented my mum for standing back and letting my dad psychologically bully me) to this day.
Therefore, whilst I think your idea in principle is a good one, and one that I would also encourage in my own children, I think the word 'encourage' is key. Be wary of transferring your own issues onto your children. I mean this kindly, as this will be a challenge for all of us, myself included xx