Controversial Curiosity

[Foogirl]

Interesting topic. I want to add a word of caution:

I was bullied by my own father into doing athletics from the age of 11-16. I didnt mind trying athletics, but when I said I didnt fancy going to another training session, that's when the problems started. I was forced to do athletics, and to be good at it, and if I didnt 'try my hardest' I was subjected to long lectures on the virtues of commitment and trying my best. It has put a big strain on my relationship with both my parents (I resented my mum for standing back and letting my dad psychologically bully me) to this day.
Therefore, whilst I think your idea in principle is a good one, and one that I would also encourage in my own children, I think the word 'encourage' is key. Be wary of transferring your own issues onto your children. I mean this kindly, as this will be a challenge for all of us, myself included xx

Absolutely. It should be their choice, for what they want to do. Taking a child who isn't particularly keen on (or good at) any activity and forcing them to stick at it regardless will not do them any favours. There is a fine line between encouraging them not to give up when the going gets a little tough, and forcing them to continue something in order to prove something. Abby will be given the opportunity to try out various things and whichever she prefers, we will encourage her to do her best.

 

[RJsMum]

Interesting topic. I want to add a word of caution:

I was bullied by my own father into doing athletics from the age of 11-16. I didnt mind trying athletics, but when I said I didnt fancy going to another training session, that's when the problems started. I was forced to do athletics, and to be good at it, and if I didnt 'try my hardest' I was subjected to long lectures on the virtues of commitment and trying my best. It has put a big strain on my relationship with both my parents (I resented my mum for standing back and letting my dad psychologically bully me) to this day.
Therefore, whilst I think your idea in principle is a good one, and one that I would also encourage in my own children, I think the word 'encourage' is key. Be wary of transferring your own issues onto your children. I mean this kindly, as this will be a challenge for all of us, myself included xx

This is a good point.

DH and I both came from different backgrounds when it came to athletics. I was in ballet from the age of 3 and then various sports from 11. By the time I was 12/13 my mom said I had to choose because we couldn't afford them all. DH on the other hand didn't do anything athletic, really. I think he dabbled a bit in Dungeons & Dragons, hehe. His parents gave him martial arts as an outlet and to help build his confidence because his bully (it was just one jerk he was in secondary school with) was so intimidating he was missing school because of threats. His parents even escorted him to school a few times. In the end it wasn't the martial arts that brought an end to the bullying, but a male teacher that confronted the bully face-to-face and told him he would be glad to return the favour if he continued.

DH and I decided that martial arts would be an option whether or not our child/children encounter these same issues, but that also, we'd support any sport/activity they showed an interest in. The only thing we ask is that if they want to give something a go, they finish what they start. No one is saying they have to be the best or the star, but we want to teach them to give 100% effort and commitment to anything. If they decide at the end of the season (for example) that it's not their thing, then at least we knew they gave it a decent try. But no half-assing, if you know what I mean.

 

[hopeandpray]

I was bullied throughout secondary school. Martial arts training wouldn't have done a thing to help. I was psychologically bullied and that's the case with most kids so being able to fight or not would be irrelevant. If I had been hit I would have walked away, imo the minute you resort to violence you can lose your role as the victim that can be helped by authorites and it turns into just a fight, and in a physical fight there will always be someone bigger and stronger and meaner that a bully can get to go after you

 

[Tegans Mama]

I am definitely NOT pro-violence and our children will be raised to rise above teasing and taunting and will be literate enough to fight back with words. However, we will also teach them how to defend themselves in the event of someone attacking them; but never to hit out first.

 

[hopeandpray]

Also it's been said that confident kids don't get picked on, I was confident until I was picked on . . so it's not always that simple

 

[HollySSmith]

I think things are so different these days. I was bullied from grades 6 - 9. It's mostly harmless (though a friends got it worse) though nasty, I weathered it fairly well. My nephew is 16 and he is constantly in fights and often loses, mind you he is the bully.
I took judo from grade 3 -10. I was very good and also the only girl most of the time. Slowly girlfriends joined. It was great! But I also danced, took swimming, sang in the choir etc. Personally, I think that what is important is to nurture some hobby, whatever that may be. Many activities will allow a child to build confidence, respect and empathy towards others.
I think the biggest danger is when parents checkout of their childrens lives. When I was going through the bullying my family banded together, my parents would deal directly with parents, my siblings showed up at my school. But it really stopped when I stood up to them publicly. I called their bluff, and offered them an opportunity to do what they threatened. It never happened, they ran away and it ended from that point on.
I will try to teach my son enough self confidence and honour that it never escalates to something physical but that if things go wrong - how to think on his feet. I will make sure he can trust me enough to tell me if he is being bullied.
If he was the bully i would be actively working on treating his problems as well as working with the school. I don't believe that children do no wrOng. It is so important to teach empathy so that they are accepting of others. I would be setting some very serious consequences for being a bully.
In my experience the worst bullies learned the behavior from their parents.

 

[kissikiss]

However, what martial arts might have done was given me a 'niche' something I felt good at, something that made me different but in a good way, given me inner confidence and the feeling I had the right to walk tall and not get shoved about. It is more from that point of view that I would like Boo to do some form of martial art, for the confidence, the discipline and the solidarity of being part of something.

I don't think it needs to be martial arts. Being a part of any team / group and building confidence is always a good thing for an introverted child. Whether it be football, or the orchestra, it can really help.

I agree! And I hope this doesn't offend anyone, because that's not how I'm meaning this, but that's the part that kind of makes me a bit sad about schools here in England (any of you can correct me if I'm wrong). I'm from the States where in high school you can be on sporting teams, choir, even 'geeky' things like math league or mock trial (I was on that, it did TONS for my confidence - along with being a cheerleader and gymnast). Over here there just doesn't seem to be the extra curricular activities or opportunities for participation as back home. I'm from a weird school though - I swear I don't remember anyone being bullied, the popular kids were the ones who did well in school, etc.

So I guess, if Elijah goes to school over here, I would want to find something for him to participate in, because it just seems to me that kids don't have very much to do, maybe that's an added reason for bullying, being bored?? I don't know.

But in NO WAY would I tolerate him being a bully. And I would hope that my husband would get involved with this one since he said he was bullied for having a big head.

And I don't know what I would do if he was being bullied. I think if he was physically attacked I would hope he would fight back - but again, I would want him to know that it was never ok to hit first.

 

[redpoppy]

However, what martial arts might have done was given me a 'niche' something I felt good at, something that made me different but in a good way, given me inner confidence and the feeling I had the right to walk tall and not get shoved about. It is more from that point of view that I would like Boo to do some form of martial art, for the confidence, the discipline and the solidarity of being part of something.

I don't think it needs to be martial arts. Being a part of any team / group and building confidence is always a good thing for an introverted child. Whether it be football, or the orchestra, it can really help.

I agree! And I hope this doesn't offend anyone, because that's not how I'm meaning this, but that's the part that kind of makes me a bit sad about schools here in England (any of you can correct me if I'm wrong). I'm from the States where in high school you can be on sporting teams, choir, even 'geeky' things like math league or mock trial (I was on that, it did TONS for my confidence - along with being a cheerleader and gymnast). Over here there just doesn't seem to be the extra curricular activities or opportunities for participation as back home. I'm from a weird school though - I swear I don't remember anyone being bullied, the popular kids were the ones who did well in school, etc.

So I guess, if Elijah goes to school over here, I would want to find something for him to participate in, because it just seems to me that kids don't have very much to do, maybe that's an added reason for bullying, being bored?? I don't know.

But in NO WAY would I tolerate him being a bully. And I would hope that my husband would get involved with this one since he said he was bullied for having a big head.

And I don't know what I would do if he was being bullied. I think if he was physically attacked I would hope he would fight back - but again, I would want him to know that it was never ok to hit first.

I think the USA have a lovely vibe to their education actually (except university fees but we're catching up there! ) even at Uni you end up having a choice of SO many subjects which are not necessarily geared towards your major. It may take longer to get qualified but if you can afford it I imagine it's lovely.

However the thing that does bother me about the system there is people many times are defined by how "popular" they are. I remember loads of american kids asking me how "popular" I was at school when I used to visit my family there I just found it bizarre. So in a way if people are "popular" then there are "unpopular" kids too? I don't know the reality as all my knowledge comes from a few holidays there and lots of teen school films.

 

[kissikiss]

I think the USA have a lovely vibe to their education actually (except university fees but we're catching up there! ) even at Uni you end up having a choice of SO many subjects which are not necessarily geared towards your major. It may take longer to get qualified but if you can afford it I imagine it's lovely.

However the thing that does bother me about the system there is people many times are defined by how "popular" they are. I remember loads of american kids asking me how "popular" I was at school when I used to visit my family there I just found it bizarre. So in a way if people are "popular" then there are "unpopular" kids too? I don't know the reality as all my knowledge comes from a few holidays there and lots of teen school films.

lol I actually prefer uni here...I always thought by the time you go to uni there is no real need to do 'gen ed' (general education) classes; that's what high school is for!

I guess...yeah...there are unpopular kids. Usually, those are the ones who don't participate in anything tho (at least at my weird school) - cause like I said, the clubs aren't all athletic - some are academic, some are things like foreign exchange clubs. I think they are all great, Iwould be just as proud if my son was doing football after school or was in the one act play. I look at my yearbooks and my British husband thinks the concept is so surreal....but he also much prefers how there are activities for kids to get involved, stay out of trouble, and gain confidence.

ps in no way was my high school like High School Musical or any other teen movie I can honestly say i dont remember anyone being bullied (that isnt saying no way did it ever happen), I just know more or less, people were all friendly with each other. xx

 

[redpoppy]

ps in no way was my high school like High School Musical or any other teen movie I can honestly say i dont remember anyone being bullied (that isnt saying no way did it ever happen), I just know more or less, people were all friendly with each other. xx

I'm too old to have seen high school musical.

 

[kissikiss]

ps in no way was my high school like High School Musical or any other teen movie I can honestly say i dont remember anyone being bullied (that isnt saying no way did it ever happen), I just know more or less, people were all friendly with each other. xx

I'm too old to have seen high school musical.

I'm 36 and have never seen it either, just wagered a guess by seeing adverts for HSM merchandise

 

[annawrigley]

Thats something I've noticed between the differences between UK and US schools as well... It seems (purely from American high school films so i may be wrong!) that in the US the popular kids do well at school... But here, it is "cool" to mess around and underachieve and get in trouble... I remember "dumbing myself down" so I wouldnt get picked on for being a geek

 

[Foogirl]

However the thing that does bother me about the system there is people many times are defined by how "popular" they are. I remember loads of american kids asking me how "popular" I was at school when I used to visit my family there I just found it bizarre. So in a way if people are "popular" then there are "unpopular" kids too? I don't know the reality as all my knowledge comes from a few holidays there and lots of teen school films.

I don't know about yours, but our school definitely had the "popular" group of children. And I'd say they were treated / acted the same as the american teens you're talking about. Those who weren't part of the group were definitely treated as second class citizens, even by some of the teachers. It might not be as defined as it is in the US but it does happen.

Over here there just doesn't seem to be the extra curricular activities or opportunities for participation as back home. I'm from a weird school though - I swear I don't remember anyone being bullied, the popular kids were the ones who did well in school, etc.
.

There used to be. But after a series of teachers strikes around 20 years ago, the staff refused to do the extra curricular stuff. It is starting to come back now though. My nephews school has a lot of EC stuff happening.

 

[PeanutBean]

Sorry I'm so late to the party!

I must confess that this thread has opened my eyes to a whole new world. Never in my life have I thought of sending my kids to martial arts to benefit them in a scrap! I admire them as arts and would be happy for my kids to attend classes if they wanted to but they would be pulled out of those classes if they used their new skills outside of the classroom/tournaments. I completely don't condone a physical response to bullying.

I was plenty bullied in school. I learnt after a while that mostly people were jealous because I was clever (I spent my whole secondary education in the naughty classes that were always bottom of the league for behaviour and results). I found ways to use it to my advantage, for example in the second year there was a period of time where the absolute naughtiest boys seemed to want to compete and started working hard! Sadly that effect didn't last long! Later I realised I didn't give a crap what anyone else thought anyway. I never tried to change and so in the early days felt lonely a freak. By 6th form I'd met like-minded people.

Anyway I digress. In adult life there is pretty much no situation where a physical response is acceptable. There's scope for self-defence but if school bullying has got to a point where real self-defence is required then something has gone very wrong along the way and many opportunities missed to make things better. Besides which self-defence is a very different thing. We had classes for girls (should've been for everyone!) in the 4th year. Self-defence is all about getting away not hitting back.

I will be encouraging all my children to use their brains when dealing with bullies and working on their self-confidence so they can be different with pride. (It's very unlikely any kids of mine and DH's won't be weirdos at schools!)

If any of the US high school films are really anything like real US high schools then I am very very glad I didn't have to attend one!

 

[Foogirl]

Sorry I'm so late to the party!

I must confess that this thread has opened my eyes to a whole new world. Never in my life have I thought of sending my kids to martial arts to benefit them in a scrap! I admire them as arts and would be happy for my kids to attend classes if they wanted to but they would be pulled out of those classes if they used their new skills outside of the classroom/tournaments. I completely don't condone a physical response to bullying.

I was plenty bullied in school. I learnt after a while that mostly people were jealous because I was clever (I spent my whole secondary education in the naughty classes that were always bottom of the league for behaviour and results). I found ways to use it to my advantage, for example in the second year there was a period of time where the absolute naughtiest boys seemed to want to compete and started working hard! Sadly that effect didn't last long! Later I realised I didn't give a crap what anyone else thought anyway. I never tried to change and so in the early days felt lonely a freak. By 6th form I'd met like-minded people.

Anyway I digress. In adult life there is pretty much no situation where a physical response is acceptable. There's scope for self-defence but if school bullying has got to a point where real self-defence is required then something has gone very wrong along the way and many opportunities missed to make things better. Besides which self-defence is a very different thing. We had classes for girls (should've been for everyone!) in the 4th year. Self-defence is all about getting away not hitting back.

I will be encouraging all my children to use their brains when dealing with bullies and working on their self-confidence so they can be different with pride. (It's very unlikely any kids of mine and DH's won't be weirdos at schools!)

If any of the US high school films are really anything like real US high schools then I am very very glad I didn't have to attend one!

Excellent post. Couldn't agree more.

 

[smokey]

However, what martial arts might have done was given me a 'niche' something I felt good at, something that made me different but in a good way, given me inner confidence and the feeling I had the right to walk tall and not get shoved about. It is more from that point of view that I would like Boo to do some form of martial art, for the confidence, the discipline and the solidarity of being part of something.

I don't think it needs to be martial arts. Being a part of any team / group and building confidence is always a good thing for an introverted child. Whether it be football, or the orchestra, it can really help.

I agree! And I hope this doesn't offend anyone, because that's not how I'm meaning this, but that's the part that kind of makes me a bit sad about schools here in England (any of you can correct me if I'm wrong). I'm from the States where in high school you can be on sporting teams, choir, even 'geeky' things like math league or mock trial (I was on that, it did TONS for my confidence - along with being a cheerleader and gymnast). Over here there just doesn't seem to be the extra curricular activities or opportunities for participation as back home. I'm from a weird school though - I swear I don't remember anyone being bullied, the popular kids were the ones who did well in school, etc.

So I guess, if Elijah goes to school over here, I would want to find something for him to participate in, because it just seems to me that kids don't have very much to do, maybe that's an added reason for bullying, being bored?? I don't know.

But in NO WAY would I tolerate him being a bully. And I would hope that my husband would get involved with this one since he said he was bullied for having a big head.

And I don't know what I would do if he was being bullied. I think if he was physically attacked I would hope he would fight back - but again, I would want him to know that it was never ok to hit first.

When I was in school we had nothing in ways of clubs, the only after school activity was either detention or head down to the town to see what you could shoplift before your bus showed up (I was normaly in the detention)
I did however join air cadets and did alot of activities through that.

Thats one of the main reasons we picked Brians school because of the amopunt of activities they did, he is already signed up for guitar, french and typing

 

[Foogirl]

When I was in school we had nothing in ways of clubs, the only after school activity was either detention or head down to the town to see what you could shoplift before your bus showed up (I was normaly in the detention)
I did however join air cadets and did alot of activities through that.

Thats one of the main reasons we picked Brians school because of the amopunt of activities they did, he is already signed up for guitar, french and typing

Mid 80's to late 90's by any chance?

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

My son does karate and there is WAY more to it than fighting. Its a very spiritual art actually. xxx