Disco Derail! - TTCAL/PAL Discussion and Support!

sorry i only have time to answer allie at the mo, will chat generally later, and do cooing at lines (coo coo twit twoo Yogi!!!)

From where i am sitting, and clearly that place is very uneducated as to whats going on between you, but the house is sort of a red herring. It seems that the issue is

He told me I bring out the worst in him, and he's sick of how I'm never happy with him, and he wants someone more independent and easygoing. I was talking to a friend last night and those are two words that people seem to think I am....so it's weird he thinks I'm not. I mean, yes, I depend on him a lot more than anyone else, but he's my husband.

Bringing out the worst in him....well, on that, it might be that your chemistry is off at the moment, i say at the mo cos it hasnt always have been, but no one can force anyone to be anything other than who they are. He is wholly responsible for his behaviour and actions. I recall you saying hed called you a name recently. Thats his decision to do that, if he feels guilty about what hes done or said recently, he is responsible for that. Everything is a transaction, an interaction, but how you react to others is on your own head. Can you question him further about this, what does he feel is his 'worst', what would he have done ideally instead of something he feels bad about in those situations? It might be a cop out, in that he's passive aggressively passing on his issues to you, out of guilt or whatever

'He wants someone more independent and easy going" - im in 2 minds whether to say this to you, but why is he thinking of who he will be with - or who he'd prefer in future? I think you could try to bring his head back into the here and now and whats happening at this moment. He is married to you. How can this marriage work, or how can you deal with this situation now to bring the right outcome - i often think that people who make the decision to split are keeping things in, until the explosive conclusion of 'I want to split'....he may have moved ahead of you in the break up thinking as he may not have been communicating the issues effectively as they happened, and the first you hear, apart from the arguments and distance is this announcement you werent expecting. Thats not fair, thats left you behind emotionally. See if you can get him to take a step back into the here and now to discuss how this has happened. Obviously i dont know how you are reacting to him recently and today, but can you hear him out and accepting his point of view if he does give you the courtesy of moving back emotionally into the place you are to discuss? Everyone has a right to feel how they do, but its not fair for him to be thinking of the future, shutting down and making plans without giving you the opportunity to understand how you have got here

If its weird he thinks you arent who you see yourself as, maybe ask him to give examples of this, and find out who you are to him.

The refusal to stay put in this house may have compounded those feelings for him in the easy going part, but i am unable to force the dependancy label on you from the house issue

Splitting bills - this is such a man thing to do, fixing and being practical. Ideally you should be listing whats going wrong between you, but again, splitting bills and making plans for how you can live apart indicates to me that hes emotionally moved out of the present. This might be because its actually very difficult to be open and honest with someone you feel issues towards and who youve been distant from. The emotional path of least resistance is to run away. Remind him that splitting and being single parents is harder in the long term than honesty in the present.

Interesting he thinks you should be more easy going when he wont break the lease. Thats not an easy going reaction to a piece of paper.

If you did move house together, then it might feel better initially, but the issues have arisen from you as a couple and would follow you. How has the baby affected your relationship? Its not uncommon for things to come to a head with a baby, as parenting and tiredness and stress have an effect. Sometimes a relationship lasting is more dependant on how you deal with the tough times, not how great the good times are. So would he consider relationship counselling do you think? Would you?

Im really sorry you are going through this x
 
Hi Nato, thank you so much for your thoughtful response!! I have read it word for word and am considering showing to Alex if you don't mind? I agree with you on all fronts. And it seems Alex is in a different place today. He has been calling me and texting me asking if we're sure we want to do this and he is suggesting counselling. I am willing to do it, but I haven't responded inthe affirmative to him yet because I'm fuming. Hold on, I think I'll do an inline response...
 
might be that your chemistry is off at the moment, i say at the mo cos it hasnt always have been, but no one can force anyone to be anything other than who they are. He is wholly responsible for his behaviour and actions. I recall you saying hed called you a name recently. Thats his decision to do that, if he feels guilty about what hes done or said recently, he is responsible for that. Everything is a transaction, an interaction, but how you react to others is on your own head. Can you question him further about this, what does he feel is his 'worst', what would he have done ideally instead of something he feels bad about in those situations? It might be a cop out, in that he's passive aggressively passing on his issues to you, out of guilt or whatever

I agree with you. Our chemistry hasn't always been off, and I do think he feels guilty about how grumpy he can be. I will ask him more about the worst thing, that's a good idea.



'He wants someone more independent and easy going" - im in 2 minds whether to say this to you, but why is he thinking of who he will be with - or who he'd prefer in future?

I'm not sure, to be honest, but it may because I was saying to him that "well, if this is how it's going to go, we better do it quickly because you're a man and are young and virle and I have a ticking biological clock so I'm going to need to find a new husband asap." I was just saying the first thing that came to my mind but it was a valid thought...maybe I shouldn't have said it, though. In any case, I think I started the 'future spouse' talk.

I think you could try to bring his head back into the here and now and whats happening at this moment. He is married to you. How can this marriage work, or how can you deal with this situation now to bring the right outcome - i often think that people who make the decision to split are keeping things in, until the explosive conclusion of 'I want to split'....

He always holds things in. He admits it. He comes from a stuffy family that never shares anything, and everything shared is always super superficial

he may have moved ahead of you in the break up thinking as he may not have been communicating the issues effectively as they happened, and the first you hear, apart from the arguments and distance is this announcement you werent expecting. Thats not fair, thats left you behind emotionally. See if you can get him to take a step back into the here and now to discuss how this has happened. Obviously i dont know how you are reacting to him recently and today, but can you hear him out and accepting his point of view if he does give you the courtesy of moving back emotionally into the place you are to discuss? Everyone has a right to feel how they do, but its not fair for him to be thinking of the future, shutting down and making plans without giving you the opportunity to understand how you have got herees

Yes, nothing much was discussed except for the practicalities of living separately

If its weird he thinks you arent who you see yourself as, maybe ask him to give examples of this, and find out who you are to him.

The refusal to stay put in this house may have compounded those feelings for him in the easy going part, but i am unable to force the dependancy label on you from the house issue

I know what you're saying. He thinks I'm not easy going as I want to do the 'difficult' thing and move. The dependency thing threw me off guard. Like Amber said, we are at our most vulnerable with our spouses. I do depend on him. I'm not sure what he means because in most areas of life I'm super independent...

Splitting bills - this is such a man thing to do, fixing and being practical. Ideally you should be listing whats going wrong between you, but again, splitting bills and making plans for how you can live apart indicates to me that hes emotionally moved out of the present. This might be because its actually very difficult to be open and honest with someone you feel issues towards and who youve been distant from. The emotional path of least resistance is to run away. Remind him that splitting and being single parents is harder in the long term than honesty in the present.

Interesting he thinks you should be more easy going when he wont break the lease. Thats not an easy going reaction to a piece of paper.

If you did move house together, then it might feel better initially, but the issues have arisen from you as a couple and would follow you. How has the baby affected your relationship? Its not uncommon for things to come to a head with a baby, as parenting and tiredness and stress have an effect. Sometimes a relationship lasting is more dependant on how you deal with the tough times, not how great the good times are. So would he consider relationship counselling do you think? Would you?

He wants counselling as he said this morning. I am thinking we should try it for Alistair's sake. I'm so mad right now I don't even feel like trying if you know what I mean? But I know that will just make things worse in the long run. I think the baby has affected our relationship. We've had no time to nurture our own relationship, as it's baby baby baby all the time. I think he gets jealous sometimes which pisses me off. Like when I say "You're so handsome!!" to Alistair, Alex will say from the other side of the room "Oh, thank you." even though he knows I'm talking to Alistair. I'll be like "who's my wonderful big boy?" and Alex will say "Oh, I am!" I'm like WTF? Maybe I need to praise Alex more....

Oops, have to pick Alex from daycare


a
Im really sorry you are going through this x

ETA

Crap I thought putting my answers in italics was clever but it's all italics. Will fix later. Oops. lol.

ETA all my responses in bold
 
there's some very encouraging stuff in your update, will respond when not trying to feed eloise - course you can show him my post
 
Allie so sorry to hear your news. I really hope you can work things out. If he's willing to consider counselling, that's a really good sign that he wants to try and fix things :hugs:

Yogi, fab lines! :thumbup:

Lucy, sorry to hear you had a tough night. I'm sure it will get easier very quickly. It's horrible leaving them to cry though, it breaks my heart.
 
Oh allie im sorry, I wish I had advice but I'm rubbish at anything like that. NATO always gives great advice, she talks a lot of sense that one.

I just hope you can sort it, I imagine this apartment crap is just making things 1000x worse, I can't dya think you'd be going through such problems if you hadn't moved?

In my honest opinion, I'd go with the new apartment, your clearly not happy where you are so i think it'll be really hard to sort things with Alex and be happy there! I'd call his bluff (which could backfire) say your going and that you want him to go with you (that's if you do) you'll soon see how serious he is! To me is doesn't sound like he's made his mind up considering what he's text you today!

Men ay, so bloody confusing!x
 
Luce, that sounds so horrendous. I have virtually no experience of bfing so it didnt even occur to me that the first night without it would be hard, but its obvious, espec at Ben's age. Do you put ben down while hes awake then? Im getting worried as Eloise has never been put down while awake, either me or john cuddle her to sleep every night - do you not do that and it be the contact without the actual bfing? Im worried cos i need to leave eloise soon and i wont be there to get her to sleep for naps. 13 months is a brilliant achievement. Well done you.

Vic i agree about routine - Eloise was great on holiday but only so long as she was on my knee, in 10 days, she didnt once allow anyone other than me or John pick her up or hold / feed her. She was extremely clingy, she is quite clingy anyway but ive never seen anything like it. Poor baby.

I bet Hero is completely flumoxed by 1st the house move and then being alone at night. It must be so scary for a LO to wake up alone in the dark without anyone there. I bring eloise into my bed when she wakes up too

Hi Rounders!!! Thanks for the welcome back. eugh at 2am start. Hope you got dosed up and managed to get through the day. How are things in general?

Yogi, 11dpo already! That bean is good and implanted. So exciting!

Hoping, thats so cute penny likes to brush her teeth, eloise did for about 2 weeks then got bored of the whole idea and now pushes it out with her tongue and sits there with her little tongue poking out. I want to see a video of penny playing the piano now please.

Sugar, am thinking of getting a cath kidston pram as Eloises was my nieces and is actually falling apart. I dont want to get one in case i need to get a double one soon <veryoptimisticface> Do you leave charlotte to cry?

Sassers. I speak gibberish but occasionally a lucid thought pops out by law of averages. Are things getting a bit better for Zac's feeding / crying now hes over 3 months?

Allie, need to properly think to answer you so will have to wait until weezy goes to bed
 
Nato- you picked a perfect time to come back. I think the advice you gave Allie was fantastic (as usual):thumbup:

I have an old video of her palying on FB... I will try getting some new footage soon

Allie- If you want to stay with him I hope counseling and a trial separation will be what you need to build a stronger relationship. When we fight with our spouses we spit out mean things that we don't necessarily mean... we say these things to hopefully hurt them as much as they hurt us (in that moment). We know exactly how to push the other person's buttons. I hope that when things cool down a bit you and Alex will be able to decide on what you really want to do. I'll be thinking of you:hugs:
 
Wow NATO you make me feel like such a mean mummy, pops haven't been cuddled to sleep since she was newborn! Definately not from 8 weeks old!!

Zacs doing great, goes to bed no fuss at all at 7:15 every night, rarely crys now although a lot more than poppy ever did, he doesn't sleep through but settles straight away when he wakes! He's feeding okay, still on prescrip milk, reflux is terrible but he's gaining weight so no real worries there! His spine and eye ate being reviewed again in October!x
 
Thank you everyone; you're all so wonderful and supportive!

After I picked up Alistair we took him to his 9 month appointment and Alex met me there. We didn't have much time to talk as we were in public but Alex told me he wants to do anything to make it work and he doesn't want to lose Alistair or I. WTF? It's just such a head f**k. He's coming with me at 5 tonight to view the apartment I like. We may sign it in just my name and see what happens going forward.

Oh, and his appt was traumatic. They drew blood and the lady was so awful at it. My hands were covered in Alistair's blood and so were his hands and he was just screaming the whole time. They had to get someone else in to do it as they had a trainee and she messed up both of his fingers! He kept turning to look at me like 'why mom, why?' and it was really heartbreaking! :(

Lucy, you poor thing!!! I imagine that was really, really hard even though it was the right time. Well done going 13 months!!! I hope tonight is easier for you all.

Round, what a long night!!! Is that what it's like with two?!

Nato, where did you go on holiday? Was that when you went camping? Alistair won't let us rock him to sleep even if we tried. He just wants to pick my nose and pull my hair and talk to me when I try to rock him now.

Yogi, I can't remember if I said but those are great lines!!! :happydance:
 
Whew, that took me forever to catch up! And I'm so exhausted from lack of sleep last night that I don't have it in me to respond to everyone.

Allie, I'm so sorry and sad to read all of this. I love Nato's advice. I know you've talked about tension in the past. I wonder if you are fully invested in the marriage? Part of what I feel like I'm reading is your desire to walk away. Maybe my blurry eyes aren't reading properly. If you are invested in making it work, counseling is a must.

Yogi, I can't believe it! Congrats!

Nato, welcome back love. You've been missed. Can't wait for your next bfp. I do the same with Delilah. She never falls asleep anywhere but my arms or Tim's. Well, she also never sleep anywhere else either which is why I'm so exhausted. I didn't know you didn't BF. Was that a choice from the beginning?

Lucy, I was practically in tears reading about your night last night. I hate the thought of giving up BFing Delilah and I don't do it exclusively. How horrible for you. I'm glad he settled himself though. And you are a wonderful mum! You are giving your little man a bit of independence. It will give him strength and character.

Sass, I didn't know Zac had reflux. What kind of milk are you giving him? Reflux has become the bane of my existence. It makes everything with Delilah so much more difficult. Congrats on the house btw!

Vicky, I want pics of your place! I'm so impressed with how much you accomplish in a day. I'm also pleased to hear that you are enjoying the phase that Hero is at. I know what a struggle it has been for you as a working mom to a preemie.

Damn, can't remember what else I read.

I'm feeling frustrated with my husband at the moment. I feel like I take care of Delilah 21 out of 24 hours of the day. I did all the night shifts last night and she didn't sleep which meant I didn't sleep. And today, he's gone off to go buy something and has left me home alone with her. I'm so tired. I told him to expect to be on full time baby duty when he gets home. He is going back to work full time next week. He better start helping more at night because I simply can't provide all of the care. It would be one thing if I could put her down after I feed her. It would be one thing if I didn't have to pump several times a day. But all of those things add up and it means I have NO time for myself. Most days I don't shower. I made sure to take one this morning though while he was working on his computer and she slept in the swing.

Oddly, when he has her, she'll sleep like a champ in the swing. When I have her, she lasts 30 minutes to an hour tops. Basically enough time for me to get some food or pump, but not enough time to rest. It's maddening. Though I must say, she's been awake and in her swing the entire time I've written this. I should stop now and go lie down before she starts crying!
 
Allie things are sounding much more promising now. Really hope Alex agrees to take on the new place and then hopefully you can sort out some counselling.

Nato, I love my CK pram. It's a Maclaren and a limited addition, so not that many around. The resale value of them is fab, so you could always get one and then sell it on if need be. You'd get your money back easy!

No I don't usually leave Charlotte to cry. We tried to do the controlled cying method about a month ago, when she wouldn't go to sleep at bedtime, but I only did it half heartedly for 2 nights and the problem seems to have resolved itself. She's a really light sleeper, so she gets fed till she's practically asleep and then put down. I put her down wide awake last night, and could hear her thumping her legs up and down really loudly :haha:, she eventually settled though.

I seem to have the opposite problem with BF her, she's taken herself off the boob. Have reduced to BF once a day when I started weaning, usually first thing in morning, but she doesn't seem right interested anymore. I've been rejected by my own buba :haha:Probably a good thing, that she's done it herself though.
 
Allie:

I agree with you. Our chemistry hasn't always been off, and I do think he feels guilty about how grumpy he can be. I will ask him more about the worst thing, that's a good idea.

Look what he seems to want to run away from, his reactions, in the face. Can you you accept him for who he is.... and can you work on those reactions together to find a way to stop the transaction between you that leads to it? He needs to be responsible for himself, but if you demonstrate that you will help and look at your part in the lead up to it, then it might help him to accept if he thinks you dont judge - if you are just too angry to do that or dont believe thats right for you, explain that to him and why you wont be part of reducing the unhealthy transactions


I'm not sure, to be honest, but it may because I was saying to him that "well, if this is how it's going to go, we better do it quickly because you're a man and are young and virle and I have a ticking biological clock so I'm going to need to find a new husband asap." I was just saying the first thing that came to my mind but it was a valid thought...maybe I shouldn't have said it, though. In any case, I think I started the 'future spouse' talk.

Thats encouraging that it wasnt him that led you donw that path, however you saw my concern about him saying that, he mustve felt concern about you saying it. I will say to you also that to fix the issues, you should to be in the here and now. I know fertility is a massive drive, but your marriage and your fertility are 2 sep issues here. I know you didnt mean it, but it would take a lot longer to get over a marriage breakdown, meet someone right and start trying again, than to deal with this today


He always holds things in. He admits it. He comes from a stuffy family that never shares anything and everything shared is always super superficial

not wanting to stereotype, but men do tend to do this - its social conditioning as well as having a british stiff upper lip repression thing going on too. It must be hard for him to break his conditioning, so angry as you are, can you find some sympathy for him in that?

Yes, I'm hoping we can discuss this. It was all so surreal last night, not much discussion other than practicalities of living apart

how upsetting and frustrating for you


I know what you're saying. He thinks I'm not easy going as I want to do the 'difficult' thing and move. The dependency thing through me off gaurd. Like Amber said, we are at our most vulnerable with our spouses. I do depend on him. I'm not sure what he means because in most areas of life I'm super independent...

youre allowed to depend on your spouse. Youre a partnership. You have promised to love and be loyal to one person for the rest of your life so the vulnerability that comes with relinquishing your independence is a compliment that you trust him so much, not a pain in the arse. He must depend on you for some things too.

He wants counselling as he said this morning. I am thinking we should try it for Alistair's sake. I'm so mad right now I don't even feel like trying if you know what I mean? But I know that will just make things worse in the long run. I think the baby has affected our relationship. We've had no time to nurture our own relationship, as it's baby baby baby all the time. I think he gets jealous sometimes which pisses me off. Like when I say "You're so handsome!!" to Alistair, Alex will say from the other side of the room "Oh, thank you." even though he knows I'm talking to Alistair. I'll be like "who's my wonderful big boy?" and Alex will say "Oh, I am!" I'm like WTF? Maybe I need to praise Alex more....

Youre angry and shocked at his betrayal of your marriage. You will be angry. You might need a bit of time to come to terms with what he's said and done in the last 24 hours. Do you want to work it out and stay together ie is the anger going to dissolve? i think you prob already know what your more long term needs are, even through the fog of anger. Your feelings might develop as you go through the process of deciding how to play this though, but today, through the anger, do you know what you want?

If he is unable to communicate due to conditioning, his suggestion of counselling holds even more weight because it will be very uncomfortable for him to have couples counselling with his background id imagine. Its a very strong signal that he is willing to redress his part in the breakdown. Its actually very common for a man to feel usurped by a new baby. Even if his feelings are frustrating he has a right to them, but its not very healthy i suspect for a man to feel that way. I do think this needs more discussion and some input from him - and even by the end of that paragraph you say you may need to compliment him more, so you are seeing it empathically from his point of view and seeing how you could help him with that, which shows a real strong connection from you to him still.


Oops, have to pick Alex from daycare

Is that parapraxis?

Hope i got all the editing right, otherwise the above will look like im speaking in tongues.

will try and answer everyone else soon. Baby squawking.
 
Hearty - hang in there, I promise in a month or so you'll forget it was ever this hard! Give tim jobs, that's what I do, without instruction D would do f all!

Zac's on Nutrimagen, but that was prescribed for his lacto intolarence, he's just on ranitidine and gaviscon for the reflux! I just rub the sick into my clothes now, I'm so use to being covered in it!
 
Hearty!!! good to see you! do you intend to carry on cuddling Delilah to sleep? she's only little now so i can understand why shed need it. Sorry you arent getting your kip though. We are just as demanding as Delilah. On the bf, i couldnt get Eloise to latch on. it was very upsetting, i had breast feeding counsellors round and everything, discussion of tongue tie etc etc and we never got it right.

sounds like Tim is being a bit naughty. I know your mum isnt close by, but you need a bit of time to yourself. At the beginning, cos i had a massive cut from the birth, i had to have a salt bath every evening which was my time alone which no one could argue against. Is there anything like that you can pull rank on? You shouldnt need to though. Maybe if you make a schedule of sorts...ie an hour an evening, or a nap for you when he gets home from work as part of a regular thing you are both subscribed to? Sassy is right though, it will be much easier very soon.

Sugar, i looked at them on boots online and they are on offer at the mo. You have just talked me into it with resale value. I am getting one. I feel like a right tramp with my current one, it looks like i am a bag lady and it should be full of rubbish ive picked out of the bins and various bits of wood and scrap metal.

Sounds like you have the going to bed thing down to a tee. Eloise thumps her legs down like that, it cracks me up. Crack. Good she has rejected bfing herself, given lucys trauma.

Sassy, glad Zac is growing into being less tricky. What a relief. The sleep thing, i am worried that i am a crap mummy, i have no routine whatsoever. We have no responsibilities at the mo, but soon i will have to go back to work and i am worried about my little girl having me wrenched away. Boo hoo.

I have been doing it for 10 months, but i do enjoy doing it, she loves a cuddle and shes so damned cute when she sleeps, doing her 'hmm' sleep sigh. Sometimes i let her do a 2 hour nap on me.

Allie, the app sounds HORRIBLE. the description of Alistair looking at you upset me. He's only a tiny baby. Weezy does that to me when her bum hurts, breaks my heart. Stupid nurses - i hate how rough they are.
 
Oh Fuck :grr: just lost a massive post ahhhhhh too tired to retype must go to bed as have my brothers wedding tomorrow if I get a chance to write tomorrow I will do massive :hugs: to you all
 
Sassy- I wish I had your will power from the beginning! It certainly would have saved me a few sleepless nights. For the record your are not a mean mommy... We all parent differently and do what works for our children:thumbup:

Allie- I hope the viewing is a success! I can't believe how horrible Alistairs appt went. I would have been livid and in tears. Poor little guy!

Amanda- its so hard to find time for yourself when you are caring for a new born around the clock and on top of that pumping and breast feeding. I remember all I did was pump, feed, change diapers and start the whole process over again. I felt guilty during that time because all I wanted was to have my body be mine again and a little time to myself. Giving up pumpking saved my sanity and allowed me to enjoy my family. Hang in there:hugs: I hope Tim can step it up and offer more support especially since he will be going back to work soon.

Sugar- the self weaning should make things easier:thumbup: are you ready for it?

NATO- I didn't know you so many issues with BF. when do you go back to work?

Lucy- have a wonderful time at the wedding!

Tonight Penny pooped out a penny:dohh:Good night ladies!
 
Lol sugar, did you know she'd swallowed it? Pops are a bead last week and I freaked out!!

To be fair I'd love pops to fall asleep on me, I was so conscious at the beginning not to start bad habits though, d is an absolute hard arse so I always had him breathing down my throat about certain things!

Lol NATO, why is your pram so minging. Immso jealous your getting the ck, I want the so bad #damuglydoubleprams

I can't sleep......
 

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