Do you think having a Natural and Homebirth section on BnB is utimately a good thing?

[Bournefree]

I love, love, love this section and I do think it is wonderful, and I don't want it removed....

...But, so much so that I hardly ever post anywhere else, or read much of the rest of the board in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd Tri-s. Perhaps because sometimes my view point differs so much from some of the other posters in those threads.. and also perhaps because I sometimes (I'm sad to say), don't have the time or inclination to post there why I think someone should trust their bodies for X,Y and Z reasons! Most it appears don't want to hear it. However I do try. When the homebirther sticky was within the pregnacy threads at least it was just as popular then, but it was top of the list to look at for everyone and hard to ignore.

But I do feel although this is a great place to talk to like minded women, I'm concerned we are not doing women as a whole, any favours by not exposing them to our plans for natural and/or homebirth. Our birth stories are increasingly being posted in the section and not on the announcements pages. Why is it the birth stories with the headline "traumatic" get the greasest number of replies>?

With this in mind, how are we presenting natural and homebirth, (which should be the normal and the way we see it) to other women if we are in our own section and other women are not enjoying reading our stories? but instead we are becoming increasingly segregated ourselves?

What do you think?

 

[Jenniflower]

I think it's interesting what you're saying and I do see some of your points. But as a whole this forum is so much more in depth than one single thread in another forum could ever be. I was all about posting in second tri when I first started on this board and yet when my perceptions started to change and I wanted to do things more and more naturally I came across this portion of the board and it has been a life changer! I guess I figure if I'm able to find it then anyone could.

I don't post in Third tri often but I still get in there every once in awhile as do a few others like Peanut and LuckyD. I think everyone just has their own special section on this board and where they feel most comfortable. I know after a time of having my wee girl I'll most likely start transitioning into the natural parenting forum. I didn't even know about that section until someone in second tri suggested going there for all my cloth nappy questions. If natural parenting only had one thread stickied on top of another forum there wouldn't be such great in-depth threads about wraps and fitteds and wipes and co sleeping.

I think we can never change anyone's mind, and that's not why we should be posting. If someone asks a question all we can do is offer our beliefs and our oppinions but it's ultimately in the end their decision, we can't assume we're going to change them. What we can be positive about though are those few people that ask a question and when we give them answers such as 'trust your body' 'you don't need to be induced' 'you don't HAVE to have a section' that starts a bug in their ear and they start to do their own research. Because ultimately that's what this section is about, CHOICE. Women have a choice on how they want to birth the information is just usually skewed to the medical side of things and what we can offer with positive birth stories, group b strep support threads and advice on water births is the information women need to make that choice.

 

[NaturalMomma]

Yes, I think it's good to have this section. I've been on forums where they only had the general pregnancy boards and if you talked about a NCB or homebirth they acted like you were an insane idiot. So I really like having this board here. There are some days when I only check here and the Baby board.

 

[Mervs Mum]

It's the only board I read as it's the only one relevant to me and the only one I have time for!! I know what you are saying but I think by just being here you'd be surprised how many people will look, lurk and read and maybe it will get them thinking.

I've been thinking about starting an external 'Home Birthers & Hopefuls' website/forum of my own but I dont know if I'd have time with all my other commitments!

 

[winegums]

I know i'll probably get shot for saying it but I just get sad there's no happy medium!

On the 'normal' pregnancy boards it's very against what i believe - people begging for inductions before they are even due, or asking for c sections, or talking about fear of birth, or how much they hate being pregnant etc

but on here it seems like everything is about being natural and feel like if you say something against the whole 'natural' thing you will not get a good response...

Same with the natual parenting section - i used to love it but now i never go on there unless i need to ask a question because i've gotten quite annoyed at some of the attitudes on there - laughing and bitching about people who use disposable nappies for example.... how supportive!!

I now prefer to use this forum for random things like birth month club and buy swap and sell etc and use natural mamas forums more for other things

xxx

 

[pimento1979]

Really good question, BF.

I have loved being involved in this section- it's wonderful to have the support of like-minded women. However, and I haven't admitted this anywhere else yet, but I am feeling a bit like a charlatan for having been involved here and for having trained as a doula as when I was going through my labour, I REALLY wanted that epidural. As it turned out, there was no time for one, but I feel really really bad for having asked for one after all my rah rah homebirth posts.

As much as I love reading everyone's birth stories, it pains me and makes me feel guilty when I read all the proper homebirth stories. It pains me that I couldn't do the same. It makes me feel guilty that I would have killed for the epi and even got all the way to the hospital with the intention of getting the epi.

I know it's stupid, and I'm not fishing for sympathy, but sometimes I feel like a failure. Yes, I pushed the baby out on my own without drugs, but it wasn't for lack of wanting them.

My baby is doing fantastically well, and I know part of that is because she wasn't exposed to any drugs during the labour. As you know, I had a breast reduction but I have been able to exclusively BF, and she is now 6lb 14oz, 8 oz over her birth weight just 15 days ago. I truly believe that a lot of this success if because of the lack of drugs- which makes me feel even worse for having wanted them in the first place!

Wow, this turned into a hijack- sorry. I guess what it comes down to is the fact that I believe this place is a good, safe place for us like-minded women to talk about things like natural birth, placenta encapsulation, and all of those other things which could make other women shriek... but it can also put a lot of pressure on women to go natural (and then ultimately make them feel like poo if they can't achieve it/change their mind about pain relief during the labour).

Tough one. Hope I don't get flamed for anything I wrote here.

 

[Mervs Mum]

Cathy! I've said it before and I'll say it again - the women on here are all of a certain frame of mind regardless of where they end up birthing. Home birth is more than a location - it's a state of mind. Openness, accepting, informed and most of all a feeling of being in control - I dont mean a controlled silent labour I mean control as in YOU decide - and you did. I've had a hospital birth where I BEGGED for the epidural and got it! I've had a birth centre birth where I BEGGED for the epi (in transition) and fortunately didnt get it as I had warned my OH not to listen to me in transition! And I had a home birth where at one point I asked if the MW could perform a CSection with kitchen utensils!
You are not a charlatan. My births ALL contribute to who I am as a woman and a person and they ALL shape my practice as a doula, am not ashamed or embarrassed about anything to do with them. And neither should you be. x

 

[pimento1979]

Lisa, thank you It's so easy as a woman to beat ourselves up for things we do/don't do/etc. Thankfully, there are women like you who help us to realise that all of these hiccups are a part of life, and as you said, shape us to be the people we are. I am so thankful for you, as I sit here with tears in my eyes- grief is a funny thing.

 

[Mervs Mum]

Just imagine how much your own birth will help other women to achieve theirs. It's all part of the journey honey. And dont forget you have a doula too and you can talk to her (and all your doula sisters) to de brief along the way xx

 

[BlackBerry25]

I don't post in here, but I do read the occasional thread because it does interest me.

I think its normal to gravitate towards people that have similar thoughts, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I usually just read the same sections.

I think its good that you talk about it in here, but you should be able to talk about "natural" type things in the tri's too, without feeling like you are "pouncing" on peoples own ideas about their birth opinions. You belong in there as much as you do in here, or at least you should feel that way (IMO)

 

[NaturalMomma]

I hear a lot of times from other parts of the board that NCB women don't support women who choose a different birth, or will beat you down, but I haven't seen that. It's actually the otehr way around that I've seen. Your dumb or hoiler than thou if you want to go unmedicated free, irresponsible if you want a homebirth, and no one except the same people are supportive of that. I'm a childbirth educator and I support all choices. Whether you want a induction, epidural or homebirth.

 

[Mervs Mum]

Agreed. Unfortunately I know only too well that it's ok on one side but not the other. Fortunately I dont give a rats ass what people say about me as my skin is like that of a rhino but I know some women would be upset by the 'unsafe' 'irresponsible' 'brave' 'crazy' etc comments.

 

[lozzy21]

I love this forum, Its been said time and time again that having a home/natural birth is not where you give birth but its a state of mind. The girls on the homebirth thread gave me the strenth to push for my homebirth, its just a shame i dident get it in the end. Even though i posted about wanting it in other parts of the forum, i only realy got the support i needed in here.

 

[bky]

I agreed and disagreed with it when it was implemented (late in my 3rd tri or just after my baby arrived, I forget). I'm glad it's become a supportive place, though I wasn't going for a home birth as I found my house unsuitable. I remained pain relief free up until they put the spinal in so I guess I got part of my natural labour
I was against it, because on the pregnancy boards I saw many women's minds changed as people talked about things like delayed cord cutting, water births and other things that are now nearly exclusively discussed here.
I mean, there is no reason to not have both, but segregation just happens.

I'd like to be more involved in natural birth topics, but I've got mixed feelings about it, so I mainly lurk.

Spoiler

My mother was very involved in the natural birthing movement in the 1980's. However, I was her hospital birth child, so while my siblings got to participate in the homebirth kids activities and had little shirts saying "I was born at home" I got to go to those activities, but was never allowed to participate, so natural birth people rankle me a bit for that reason. Because I associate the talk with being left out. I know this and don't act on it, but it still leaves me with feelings of discomfort.

 

[LuckyD]

Hmmmmmm....very interesting topic!

I totally get where you are coming from BF - I do think that 'natural' birthing and related topics shouldn't be considered as the 'other' - and I do see that having a seperate section makes us somehow not the norm. Well, we may not be the 'norm' yet when it comes to the statistics - but you are right, the only way that things change and people are aware of what options and choices they have, is if they are exposed to alternatives.

I am not saying that women that make different choices are wrong or that we should be converting them...I am just saying that exposure to all options is important. While I knew I wanted a homebirth, there are so many more things I have learnt just from reading threads on here and hearing about other people's experiences. I wouldn't have got that if I had just read the Third Tri threads.

On the other hand...I do love this section as it is a place where I can relax and know I won't be judged or have to defend my decisions. I feel like throughout my pregnancy I have had to defend my homebirth beliefs, or have had to try and tune out while people tell me the most negative birth stories possible. I am trying hard to focus on my upcoming labour as a positive experience - and in this section of BnB I know I will find inspiration and support for this. I have had to stop reading other threads in Third Tri as I have found them detrimental to the calm and positive place I am working on creating in myself.

So - I guess I am kind of on the fence! Intellectually and philosophically I think that 'alternative' ways of birthing should be in the mainstream....but then emotionally I really value the 'safe' space that this section of the forum is to me!

 

[LuckyD]

And while I think of it....I remember reading a couple of months ago a thread about breastfeeding (which I know often get out of control anyway!) in either Second or Third Tri...and the woman that was promoting breastfeeding as a natural/normal way to feed your baby (if you can) was told that she should post her thoughts in this section as she may feel more at home. I am sure it wasn't written rudely and the person was just trying to be helpful - but I thought that was kind of sad - that breastfeeding was seen as something that should be discussed in a 'alternative' forum.....

 

[Mervs Mum]

I think the 'natural' tag can mean different things to different people. Some assume that home birth = no drugs when in actual fact that's not the case. Home = comfy for sure but home does = hero or martyr and I think some women think it does. But that's because home birth in general isnt seen as the norm and that because a lot of women birthing at home do it with 'alternative' methods of 'pain reflief' like Hyponobirthing etc then it must be about doing it without drugs. I see more posters for Hypnobirthing going up in maternity units these days. TENS and water are accepted methods of dealing with the intensity of labour and people begin to see them as a credible and acceptable alternative as they appear more and more in the 'mainstream'. I think the shift towards home birth is an extension of that and soon it will be talked about in the regular tris just as TENS and water births are these days but weren't not so many years ago.

 

[Bournefree]

Thank you so much for taking this debate on ladies!
Of course I DO ultimatly think that having a different section is better.. as we can make threads on specific areas of interest, ask specific questions and have the support of each other.

But I do think that normal birth, should be the norm... and stastically it is (just). Though as it has been highlighted, there are a few deffinitions of normal and natural!

What I do think we are great at, is encompassing all womens' views on childbirth.

Personally I would defend anyones right to have the birth they want - Home, Birthing Centre, Hospital, with or without drugs, even including any women who would like to have an elective c-section without physiological reasons. (though, this would never be my choice) But as Voltaire's friends once said "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

I don't have any problems with drugs being used in childbirth, what I find problematic is the increasing medicalisation of birth and the routine use of interventions in a physiological process, when there isn't an indicator to use them. I wish that more women would START at normal physiological birth, and then consider fully the implications and associated risks of a medicalised birth.

Women shouldn't have to feel as though they should be slotted into a particular "camp" of thought...then if they then do use drugs or transfer (in the case of a homebirth) there is a danger of feeling like a fraud. As we all know that isn't the case at all! Medical advantages are not to be ignored entirely; they are there for when they are needed or wanted, and for one I'm pleased they are. Just as I'm pleased that so called "alternative" therapies are here for our choosing!

I do hope that not only women convinced of natural or homebirth come and read this section... as we will all be poorer if they didn't and I will be making more of an effort to post in my 2nd Tri. Not to try and convert women!!!! (maybe a few ;-) just to talk about what I'm doing, as the other women there are, so that my choices perhaps are heard of, talked about and even considered in the population.
XxX

 

[pinkmonki]

I don't really post in 3rd Tri (or here, if I'm being honest) mostly because questions are already answered before I see them, and partly because I feel somewhat 'removed' from the subjects on there (speaking of 3rd tri in particular)

I'm almost militant about women being able to birth without intervention, breastfeeding freely and attachment parenting, and honestly, most women simply do not want to hear it.

It makes my teeth itch every time I see women submitting to medical degrees during their pregnancy and birth, truly labouring (excuse the pun) under the impression that 'Doctor knows best' when that really isn't the case. Doctors know the problems best, they rarely have any idea what a problem free birth should be like.

It annoys me that people think that home-birth is some sort of drug-free hippy fest, where we chant, hum and have a witch doctor dancing round us burning grasses. Not to mention that the general consensus seems to be that we home-birth to the detriment of our babies!

I am sick of that look of bemusement tinged with pity when I mention that I will be birthing my child at home without drugs. I also hate that same look turning to outright disbelief when I say this will be the second time I'll be doing that exact thing. Or when I speak of the virtues of long term breastfeeding and explain that my 5 year old son has NEVER needed to see a doctor or been ill aside from a bout of chicken pox four years ago (I'm including colds here!)

I actually want to scream with frustration every time I see the phrase 'I'll be bottle feeding so daddy can bond'. Almost all of the posts regarding breastfeeding are taken over by 'it's so hard' 'Cracked nipples' 'Mastitis' 'Failure to thrive' talk, so much so that those of us trying to reassure that with patience and faith in yourself almost all problems can be overcome, are simply pissing in the wind and going unheard.

I'm getting incredibly ranty, which is exactly my point, I don't post there because I get so damn upset with all the fallacy that I end up ranting so the outcome appears to be that after 30 weeks I still lurk and the only support I get comes from myself.

 

[Bournefree]

It makes my teeth itch every time I see women submitting to medical degrees during their pregnancy and birth, truly labouring (excuse the pun) under the impression that 'Doctor knows best' when that really isn't the case. Doctors know the problems best, they rarely have any idea what a problem free birth should be like.
It annoys me that people think that home-birth is some sort of drug-free hippy fest, where we chant, hum and have a witch doctor dancing round us burning grasses. Not to mention that the general consensus seems to be that we home-birth to the detriment of our babies!

I agree with alot of what you have said here Pinkmonki!!!! You have made me smile! Because I do feel alot of the things you are saying, and haven't said them myself, as I also didn't want to get into a rant in the other tri-s and then just be berated or linched for my view.
I'm really pleased that you feel that you can post here though - Don't feel as though you have to lurk anywhere!
Xxx