Downs testing - anyone not having this?

[Rachie004]

I don't think the use of the word selfish was perhaps the best choice but I can actually see where MrsBroodyPant is coming from.

I don't think I would choose to end the pregnancy if there was some sort of issue, however I still want to have the initial screening, non invasive and risk free tests done because I would want to know what was to come. Like a PP mentioned it's not just about downs syndrome there are other issues that are also looked at.

It doesn't make me want or love my baby any less (which I feel like has been suggested), it just makes me want to be prepared from an emotional point of view or to have the right care or support network in place for when they arrive.

This is obviously a very emotional subject; the thread has descended from a yes/no response to people declaring their opinions and beliefs on termination and abortion (which I believe is against forum rules).

 

[redlemonade]

I believe everyone is entitled to their own choice.

I would never judge someone for their choice, I'm disgusted that I have been judged for mine.

And amino is the only 100% accurate test available to us in the UK. The others we have aren't 100% accurate.

I'm sorry you feel like you were judged. I didn't read that post you're referring to in the same way. I see that you've been through a lot to conceive so I understand the hurt you're feeling. However, we don't know what other people have gone through so I think we need to be very mindful of that too. Our opinions on this topic are most likely formed from past experiences and strong beliefs. So, I guess what I'm saying is that I understand both sides.

 

[Alita]

I believe everyone is entitled to their own choice.

I would never judge someone for their choice, I'm disgusted that I have been judged for mine.

And amino is the only 100% accurate test available to us in the UK. The others we have aren't 100% accurate.

The Panorama test is 99,9 and is offered in the Uk , at least in London my friend had it done, i know is not free for everyone and not everywhere at the moment but is a good amnio replacement if one really needs to do it and doesnt want the risk.

 

[Eternal]

I don't think it needs to turn into pro life /pro choice argument, but someone stating that it's selfish to not abort a could with disabilities is taking a step too far. I 100% understand what she was trying to say! she was trying to say that why let the child suffer and that letting the child be born into pain for a short period is more for the parent than the child! however we don't all see it like that.

I know and have worked with children with down syndrome and other genetic conditions which people say would be unfair to inflict upon them, but you know what, many and actually most of these children and audits are happy, beautiful, amazing people, full of life and joy.

I think each of us will make decisions based on our own individual circumstances and ideals, but using words like selfish is really a strong word and a very wrong word in these circumstances. There isn't really a right or wrong answer with regards this, some of us will feel very strongly one way or another, I don't think those of is who wouldn't abort are judging those who would we a cote that each of us have different beliefs, abilities, etc, but it's hard when someone using such a term to describe our decision when I don't believe either side is being selfish.

The decision to continue with a pregnancy knowing it probably isn't going to go well is a selfless one, the decision to end a child's suffering is a selfless one. People don't judge just because we would make a different decision to you.

 

[redlemonade]

Eternal, you're right to say that there isn't a right or wrong answer here. We all have to make decisions for ourselves.

However, there were comments passed after the 'selfish' comment - something like 'killing a baby' which is a comment i think would be horrific for anybody who had chosen to terminate to read. That particular comment is loaded with judgement. I agree with a pp who said the word selfish was probably the wrong word, but that's not the only language that's been problematic in this thread, and it's why I do think that the thread is going in the direction of pro life/pro choice

 

[Eternal]

Eternal, you're right to say that there isn't a right or wrong answer here. We all have to make decisions for ourselves.

However, there were comments passed after the 'selfish' comment - something like 'killing a baby' which is a comment i think would be horrific for anybody who had chosen to terminate to read. That particular comment is loaded with judgement. I agree with a pp who said the word selfish was probably the wrong word, but that's not the only language that's been problematic in this thread, and it's why I do think that the thread is going in the direction of pro life/pro choice

Well it's probably be that wrote that, but being called selfish for keeping my child despite any issues really does invoke anger, and hormones don't help. the point is none of us what our children to suffer, and frankly this child I'm carrying is my baby, it's not a featus or an embryo, it's my baby and termination would be killing to me, ok yes I admit I probably shouldn't have used that term, so I am sorry, but it's really that black and white for me.

I would not judge and do not judge others for their decisions, but to me it's as cut and dry as I wouldn't end my 3 year olds life because he has been diagnosed with autism, nor would I end my un borns life because "it" has Down syndrome. I realise and respect it's not as cut and dry for everyone, for a lot of reasons, and that's fine, I respect that. But I'm entitled to express how I feel even if I know a lot will disagree, and the fact someone railed me up perhaps had me express it a but more shockingly that I otherwise would have, however that is still how I feel.

 

[ShanandBoc]

Unfortunately these types of threads always seem to go this way. It looks like it's descending into a pro life/pro choice type of debate. I don't think this is the forum for this but suffice to say we all have different beliefs, opinions, religions (or lack thereof) and experiences. We should respect each others beliefs and choices (and yes, we do have choices). There's lots of judgement in the last few posts, and a lot of strong and hurtful language. It's quite sad to see it.

Theres no one else to blame other than the poster who turned the thread this way by labelling people selfish. What a hurtful and judgemental thing to say in such a discussion! !

The post that u agreed with btw.

 

[redlemonade]

Eternal, you're right to say that there isn't a right or wrong answer here. We all have to make decisions for ourselves.

However, there were comments passed after the 'selfish' comment - something like 'killing a baby' which is a comment i think would be horrific for anybody who had chosen to terminate to read. That particular comment is loaded with judgement. I agree with a pp who said the word selfish was probably the wrong word, but that's not the only language that's been problematic in this thread, and it's why I do think that the thread is going in the direction of pro life/pro choice

Well it's probably be that wrote that, but being called selfish for keeping my child despite any issues really does invoke anger, and hormones don't help. the point is none of us what our children to suffer, and frankly this child I'm carrying is my baby, it's not a featus or an embryo, it's my baby and termination would be killing to me, ok yes I admit I probably shouldn't have used that term, so I am sorry, but it's really that black and white for me.

I would not judge and do not judge others for their decisions, but to me it's as cut and dry as I wouldn't end my 3 year olds life because he has been diagnosed with autism, nor would I end my un borns life because "it" has Down syndrome. I realise and respect it's not as cut and dry for everyone, for a lot of reasons, and that's fine, I respect that. But I'm entitled to express how I feel even if I know a lot will disagree, and the fact someone railed me up perhaps had me express it a but more shockingly that I otherwise would have, however that is still how I feel.

You know what, I think it's totally normal to feel angry on this topic. So there's no need to apologise (I hadn't realised that it was your comment, I just remembered it had been written in the midst of a lot of posts). I totally get where you're coming from. And I also thank you for not judging others who might have made a difficult decision in the past.

I think the bottom line, as you put it, is that nobody wants their child to suffer. We just all weigh things up differently and we do what we feel is best for our kids, born and unborn.

I think we'll all make fab mamas!

 

[baileybubs]

I have read through most of this thread, and it does seem that its running in a direction a bit away from the original question, so I thought I'd just return to that and tell you what happened with me.
I work with adults with learning disabilities of all varying kinds including downs syndrome. For me (and this is a personal decision for everyone so would never judge anyone elses decision) but for me I would keep the baby anyway if I were to find out he/she had DS. However, another PP has pointed out that it also shows other issues that can be more serious and could lead to a painful short life for a child. Even so, with my daughter I decided I didnt want the test, much like the OP has suggested, because I wouldnt want the amniocentisis (sp??) as it risks MC so why bother with the first test which is very inconclusive.
Fast forward to the day after my baby is born and a MW tries to tell me she looks jaundiced (she didnt) and that she needs to be taken away to the nursery to be looked at. I didnt think anything of this and she was back in 10 mins. All fine. Later some doctors came in and did a load of things with Emilia that I hadnt seen them do with any other baby, lots of looking at her feet and palms, reactions to certain stimuli etc.
They said nothing and went. I decided to look in mine and her notes as I was suspicious and notice a lot of mention of DS and how I had chose not to test for it during pregnancy. I then noticed more writings about this issue and it turned out that the MW had taken her to the nursery to be checked for signs of DS and she hadnt told me as she hadnt wanted to worry me. The doctors also didnt mention it to me. First of all I was so worried, because although I wouldnt have loved or wanted my daughter any less had she had DS, but its something that is lifechanging for all and a bit of a shock! Add in my tired and incredibly emotional state and I had an awful night worrying until I queried the doctors about it the next day. It turned out they had considered she might have DS due to her flat nasal ridge and widely spaced eyes, but one look at her father and you can see where she got that. She showed no other signs of DS and was considered low risk, but noone had told me this without me asking!! All in all I felt that I wished I had had the NT test so that I was prepared for such an event and it wasnt thrust upon me (by way of secrets and suspicion!). I did make a complaint to my community MW after all of this that I wasnt informed of a test being carried out on my daughter without actually telling me!

So, now I am pregnant again, I am considering the NT test simply so I may be slightly more aware, and more prepared if my baby does have DS.

Sorry that was so long and rambling but I hope it helps a little. I know the NT test may not be conclusive, but its a choice between wanting that extra worry of something possibly being a problem with baby, or wanting to be prepared for that event I think.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I believe everyone is entitled to their own choice.

I would never judge someone for their choice, I'm disgusted that I have been judged for mine.

And amino is the only 100% accurate test available to us in the UK. The others we have aren't 100% accurate.

The Panorama test is 99,9 and is offered in the Uk , at least in London my friend had it done, i know is not free for everyone and not everywhere at the moment but is a good amnio replacement if one really needs to do it and doesnt want the risk.

There's people from all over the world on this forum and most couldnt afford such tests even if they were available so kind of pointless really .

 

[ShanandBoc]

I don't think the use of the word selfish was perhaps the best choice but I can actually see where MrsBroodyPant is coming from.

I don't think I would choose to end the pregnancy if there was some sort of issue, however I still want to have the initial screening, non invasive and risk free tests done because I would want to know what was to come. Like a PP mentioned it's not just about downs syndrome there are other issues that are also looked at.

It doesn't make me want or love my baby any less (which I feel like has been suggested), it just makes me want to be prepared from an emotional point of view or to have the right care or support network in place for when they arrive.

This is obviously a very emotional subject; the thread has descended from a yes/no response to people declaring their opinions and beliefs on termination and abortion (which I believe is against forum rules).

Mrsbroodypant introduced terminations to this discussion. No one else.

She stated that you were selfish if u kept a child or refused testing for a child that had an abnormality that was "incompatible with life"

It was pretty obvious what she meant.

 

[Eternal]

Eternal, you're right to say that there isn't a right or wrong answer here. We all have to make decisions for ourselves.

However, there were comments passed after the 'selfish' comment - something like 'killing a baby' which is a comment i think would be horrific for anybody who had chosen to terminate to read. That particular comment is loaded with judgement. I agree with a pp who said the word selfish was probably the wrong word, but that's not the only language that's been problematic in this thread, and it's why I do think that the thread is going in the direction of pro life/pro choice

Well it's probably be that wrote that, but being called selfish for keeping my child despite any issues really does invoke anger, and hormones don't help. the point is none of us what our children to suffer, and frankly this child I'm carrying is my baby, it's not a featus or an embryo, it's my baby and termination would be killing to me, ok yes I admit I probably shouldn't have used that term, so I am sorry, but it's really that black and white for me.

I would not judge and do not judge others for their decisions, but to me it's as cut and dry as I wouldn't end my 3 year olds life because he has been diagnosed with autism, nor would I end my un borns life because "it" has Down syndrome. I realise and respect it's not as cut and dry for everyone, for a lot of reasons, and that's fine, I respect that. But I'm entitled to express how I feel even if I know a lot will disagree, and the fact someone railed me up perhaps had me express it a but more shockingly that I otherwise would have, however that is still how I feel.

You know what, I think it's totally normal to feel angry on this topic. So there's no need to apologise (I hadn't realised that it was your comment, I just remembered it had been written in the midst of a lot of posts). I totally get where you're coming from. And I also thank you for not judging others who might have made a difficult decision in the past.

I think the bottom line, as you put it, is that nobody wants their child to suffer. We just all weigh things up differently and we do what we feel is best for our kids, born and unborn.

I think we'll all make fab mamas!

I agree, I've seen women agonise of the decision to terminate, some who have and some who haven't, each decision whatever the outcome was right for them and I'd support them either way, yes i do have strong feelings, but the are my feelings and what I place upon myself.

Plus we never know I what we will truly do until we are in the given situation with all the facts laid in front of us.

 

[redlemonade]

Unfortunately these types of threads always seem to go this way. It looks like it's descending into a pro life/pro choice type of debate. I don't think this is the forum for this but suffice to say we all have different beliefs, opinions, religions (or lack thereof) and experiences. We should respect each others beliefs and choices (and yes, we do have choices). There's lots of judgement in the last few posts, and a lot of strong and hurtful language. It's quite sad to see it.

Theres no one else to blame other than the poster who turned the thread this way by labelling people selfish. What a hurtful and judgemental thing to say in such a discussion! !

The post that u agreed with btw.

Wow...There's no need to blame anyone...?!

And I'm well aware of what I agreed with. I don't think there's any need to go into it further, though it really appears that you're spoiling for an argument on this one.

 

[ShanandBoc]

Unfortunately these types of threads always seem to go this way. It looks like it's descending into a pro life/pro choice type of debate. I don't think this is the forum for this but suffice to say we all have different beliefs, opinions, religions (or lack thereof) and experiences. We should respect each others beliefs and choices (and yes, we do have choices). There's lots of judgement in the last few posts, and a lot of strong and hurtful language. It's quite sad to see it.

Theres no one else to blame other than the poster who turned the thread this way by labelling people selfish. What a hurtful and judgemental thing to say in such a discussion! !

The post that u agreed with btw.

Wow...There's no need to blame anyone...?!

And I'm well aware of what I agreed with. I don't think there's any need to go into it further, though it really appears that you're spoiling for an argument on this one.

Actually im just stating the obvious that this thread was going along fine with none of what u stated above until people were called selfish - how on earth is that respecting peoples beliefs and choices? No arguments. Just facts.

 

[redlemonade]

Baileybubs, thank you for sharing your story. That must have been so scary but I'm glad everything worked out well!

 

[Eternal]

Anyway, can't remember if I answered the original question lol.

My first I didn't test, it didn't matter to me at all. My second I asked hubby and he said no, but lost that baby at 12 weeks anyway, my third pregnancy I couldn't as it was twins and the test doesn't work for twins.

This time I said yes, hubby said he doesn't see the need, but said it's up to me, they won't do my blood here for that until 16 weeks, so I've got time to decide, I did really want it to just be prepared but I wouldn't have the amino, but actually I think now I'm less likely to have it at all, any major issues like trisomy 13 or other scary things would get picked up on ultra sounds, and the blood work only indicates risk so it's not conclusive.

So I can see why people do and don't because I've swayed various ways over the past 5 years, I think generally my opinion for me would be no though.

 

[ShanandBoc]

So u cant get the test for twins Eternal? I had no idea?

Do they still check NT measurements etc?

 

[Eternal]

So u cant get the test for twins Eternal? I had no idea?

Do they still check NT measurements etc?

Nope, because I guess it's about your blood levels and it cannot work when there is more than one baby present.

They still do all the other check and I think I could have had amino if I wanted, not sure how that works for Identical twins though, is it fluid they take?

Twin pregnancies get a huge amount more scans anyway though, so much more to go wrong, I ended up with 2 weekly scans from 16 weeks to 37 when I delivered.

 

[ShanandBoc]

So u cant get the test for twins Eternal? I had no idea?

Do they still check NT measurements etc?

Nope, because I guess it's about your blood levels and it cannot work when there is more than one baby present.

They still do all the other check and I think I could have had amino if I wanted, not sure how that works for Identical twins though, is it fluid they take?

Twin pregnancies get a huge amount more scans anyway though, so much more to go wrong, I ended up with 2 weekly scans from 16 weeks to 37 when I delivered.

Yeah its fluid they take I believe.

You learn something new everyday

 

[redlemonade]

ShanandBoc, I think it's already been acknowledged that there were several things said that were potentially hurtful to others, but I'm not going to go into it any more. Time to let it go maybe?