Gender segregation, inside the little boxes.

[hot tea]

Let's face it, gender segregation is the most commonly accepted form of segregation, and it is my personal belief that it is a very big problem in our society. Very few people question WHY pink is for girls, why long hair is for girls, and how this message effects their children. Be it with rough housing is boys play, dolls are girls play, and so on. It is commonly accepted that girls are supposedly softer, more thoughtful. But is this really true? We create a mold and our children are expected by the world to fit into these molds.

The psychologicsl effects are simple. We create insecure people who are not able to express themselves appropriately because they have been censored. If you are taught something you want naturally is "not okay", what feeling do you think is instlled in the child?

In adulthood men and women can "get away with" different things. Men are horny, women are moody. We are told to accept this, we scoff and say, "men!" How much is real? No one knows, because it is entirely cultural.

What lines do you draw for your children?
Do you believe lines are necessary, when it comes to gender stereotyping?
Thoughts!

 

[Ozzieshunni]

I, personally, have never had an issue with gender stereotyping growing up in the liberal SF Bay Area. I shot rifles, camped, hiked, danced, acted, and everything else. I don't see it as a major problem because it doesn't affect me or my son. We are happy for him to grow up how ever he wants to be. In fact, I have DH's blessing to take him to dance classes when he's a toddler.

I never treated my preschoolers any differently either. In fact, in early childhood education, we learn that it's acceptable for boys and girls to explore all different kinds of play. We had a boy pretend to give birth. Was it wrong? Nope, he was just exploring different gender roles.

As for pink and blue, the reason behind that is Queen Victoria's granddaughter was having a baby. In those days, they dressed boys in pink and girls in blue. She thought it was a boy so she bought all pink and the baby was a girl. Lo and behold, everyone started dressing boys in blue and girls in pink. It's not really that complication.

I know tons of women that don't dress their little girls in pink. I find pink a vile color and will have as little of it as humanly possible if I have a daughter. As for my son, I love his outfits. I don't see the need to get him gender neutral colors because I would dress a girl in browns, greens, purples and blues. I don't wear pink at all, but does that make me less of a girl?

It's about not taking the troubles of the world on your back. Change happens one person at a time. If I teach my son not to be ashamed, he will teach his children hopefully and so on and so on. Rome wasn't built in a day, after all!

 

[marley2580]

I do believe that it is a balance between nature and nurture. We should accept that men and women are different, they have biological and hormonal differences that have an influence on their behaviour. That said, I think that prior to puberty there is much less of a difference and that many of the differences that we perceive are actually cultural. I find it really interesting that people are often quite happy to dress their girls in 'boys' clothes and let them play with 'boys' toys, but less happy to do the reverse. Even me, I don't know what sex I'm having and I was sorting out the baby clothes the other day and realised that I was quite happy to put 'boys' clothes in the drawer for the baby, but less happy to put 'girls' clothes in the drawer. But I don't know why I feel less comfortable with dressing a boy in 'girls' clothes.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Just put a kilt in the drawer, Marley. Then he can have a skirt



You know I'm kidding

 

[TriChick]

I, personally, have never had an issue with gender stereotyping growing up in the liberal SF Bay Area. I shot rifles, camped, hiked, danced, acted, and everything else. I don't see it as a major problem because it doesn't affect me or my son. We are happy for him to grow up how ever he wants to be. In fact, I have DH's blessing to take him to dance classes when he's a toddler.

I never treated my preschoolers any differently either. In fact, in early childhood education, we learn that it's acceptable for boys and girls to explore all different kinds of play. We had a boy pretend to give birth. Was it wrong? Nope, he was just exploring different gender roles.

As for pink and blue, the reason behind that is Queen Victoria's granddaughter was having a baby. In those days, they dressed boys in pink and girls in blue. She thought it was a boy so she bought all pink and the baby was a girl. Lo and behold, everyone started dressing boys in blue and girls in pink. It's not really that complication.

I know tons of women that don't dress their little girls in pink. I find pink a vile color and will have as little of it as humanly possible if I have a daughter. As for my son, I love his outfits. I don't see the need to get him gender neutral colors because I would dress a girl in browns, greens, purples and blues. I don't wear pink at all, but does that make me less of a girl?

It's about not taking the troubles of the world on your back. Change happens one person at a time. If I teach my son not to be ashamed, he will teach his children hopefully and so on and so on. Rome wasn't built in a day, after all!

Where in the Bay Area?? I was born and raised in Santa Cruz, lol about as liberal of a city as they come! With the interesting attire the locals wear there (and sometimes none at all!), not too many people seemed concerned with the pink-is-for-girls/blue-is-for-boys issue. Then again, the whole city is definitely...progressive...

 

[Ozzieshunni]

San Mateo County. Loved every minute of it!

 

[smelly07]

I have two daughters and i let my children choose what they play with and dont do the whole, 'thats for girls' and 'thats for boys' thing. I encourage their interests and do not exclude toys/activities because they are apparently suited for the opposite sex.

Currently my 2.5 year old is wearing a boys blue katsuma tshirt (moshi monsters) her favourite colours are blue and orange she insists on watching power rangers and ben 10 but she also loves her baby dolls and stroller and her cuddly toys.
My eldest daughters favourite colour is red and green, she isnt a 'girly girl' she is into lego, clouring and riding her bike. I havent encouraged anything but neither excluded anything, i have just given them all opportunities i can regardless.

They also see that myself and my husband both work, we both do housework and we both make dinner, they see me (attempt) DIY etc etc
I dont think either of them would even think that certain roles/colours/toys were classed as male or female actually.


I totally agree with marley:

We should accept that men and women are different, they have biological and hormonal differences that have an influence on their behaviour

We can not understand men they are different to us and vice versa. I agree its a balance between nature and nurture x

 

[JASMAK]

I let my boys and girls play with what they want to play with. The have playdates with the same sex, opposite sex, 'girl' toys, 'boy' toys and games. My son loved Dora, wore Dora clothes and had a Dora party when he was 3. I don't really see an issue with gender segregation tbh. I think most people I know anyways let their kids be who they are. My son is very much against anything girly right now, and that is him and I let him be that way. My oldest and youngest daughter love girly things, pink, dresses, etc...and we have not swayed them in the slightest, infact my eldest daughter, being 20mths younger than her brother, basically had only boy toys (except his vast Dora stuff) to play with...trucks, cars, Bob the Builder, etc. I just don't think it's a big deal...but I am not going to go out of my way to make them 'neutral' either. If my girls want to wear pretty dresses, join ballet, and play with Barbie (which my eldest does) then I will let her. I think sometimes this 'gender segregation' is a little overthought, tbh.

That all being said, as far as roles at home..my husband is home with the kids during the day, we both work full-time, my hubby takes my baby to baby groups etc (often the only man present) and arranges playdates. I have a neighbour who is the same and is the SAHD. I think it is common now for either parent to be at home or have shared roles at least. I really don't see alot of gender segregation anymore.

 

[Lightworker]

I don't like gender stereotypes, and although I've not had any real issues to test my belief with my own children, I would like to think that I would be open to them acting in an individualistic way, and I am very much for children being unique and not conforming to social expectations.

As a parent though it can be hard to prevent this from impacting your child's life though. They may pick it up from TV, mainstream education and other social institutions which may not outrightly pigeon-hole people, but will do things in such a way that might have the same effect.

There are some exceptions to my rule though (yes it is hypocritical), but when I have a son, he will

- open doors for ladies, always
- allow ladies first

I do tell my daughter wherever possible to be mindful of people, and let people go ahead if they are elderly etc. But for me I think I will make a point more for my son x

 

[buddyIV]

I'm really interested in the idea of gender differences, and whether they are natural/biological or socialised. There are concrete biological differences between the sex of men and women (obviously!), but this doesn't directly entail that there are gender differences.

There was a recent study on the male and female brain, and a difference was discovered between the thickness of the corpus callosum (a bundle of nerves that connects the right and left hemispheres of the brain) in men and women, and it was concluded that this difference in thickness may offer an explanation for "women's instinct" and certain aspects of why some men have better spatial awareness. However, there are no differences in thickness of the corpus callosum of male and female infants, which might imply that it alters as a result of differential treatment i.e. girls are encouraged to develop and rely on their emotional states, whereas boys are encouraged to play outside, and play with technical "construction" style toys. Furthermore, a woman whose map-reading skills are poor can be taught to improve this skill, suggesting that even if there is this biological difference, it does not predetermine the disposition and ability of the women. In addition, they found that the thickness was not constant across a range of men and women (some men's were thicker than some women's).

Generalisations about male and female "traits" are always wrong, and perhaps that indicates that much of gender difference is societal. For example, logic and rational thought are regarded as "male", but as a female philosopher I have to utilise formal logic methods. One logical women means that logic is not a male trait after all!

Personally I think much of gender difference comes from society; if our expectations were altered, then I think male/female behaviour would alter accordingly. Furthermore, if we accepted that individuals can be different (as a result of their individuality, not their sex or gender), we could perhaps encourage the idea that those differences do not make them inferior. Until we treat people equally, educate them as equals, and allow them to express themselves as individuals we'll never have even the chance of answering the nature/nurture question of gender difference.

I have no expectations of my son's likes and dislikes, and let him choose whatever the heck he likes to play with. I've dressed him in a-sexual colours, and try to communicate with him in ways that don't oppress his natural tendencies e.g. I'd never tell him not to cry.

 

[Desi's_lost]

I think im a bit of a weirdo, as i prefer people who are more androgynous. I've never been keen on super girly things nor have i been keen on super manly things.

So i suppose i've never much been bothered by gender roles, nor would i ever push them on my child. sure she has cute girly outfits but she also wears a lot of brown, blue, blacks and until her hair got so long people would often think she was a boy xD I think i find myself purposely exposing her to 'boyish' things as well because most clothes/toys she gets from family are always more 'girly'.

I'm really excited to see what she'll be like as she gets older.

 

[lesleyann]

I dont have a problem with any of it really I would love for my son to be a manly man and my daughter to be a girly girl however, he will play with her toys if he wishes and she will be able to play with his.. However I will never let my son grow his hair long so that he infact looks like a girl, like that poor little boy in the sun the other day

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Men used to have long hair and they looked far from girly.

 

[hot tea]

I dont have a problem with any of it really I would love for my son to be a manly man and my daughter to be a girly girl however, he will play with her toys if he wishes and she will be able to play with his.. However I will never let my son grow his hair long so that he infact looks like a girl, like that poor little boy in the sun the other day

Why? Who determines what is girly andwhat is manly, anyways?

 

[hot tea]

Pink used to be a "manly" color. Women would never wear it.

 

[Lightworker]

Hot-tea what's that sling on your back called?

 

[hot tea]

It is a 4.6 meter Ellaroo woven gauze wrap.

 

[Lightworker]

cool..its looks absolutely fab! x

 

[lesleyann]

Oh I dont disagree my oh had longish hair when we got together my thing about the hair was that little boy in the sun newspaper who did look like a little girl everyone who I showed just a picture to without the headline thought it was going to be a story about a school girl.

My oh has pink shirts and so does kyle they look good in them. I guess in a sence I want my son to grow up into the traditional man, he will protect his family, he will be the breadwinner, he will look like he can protect his family etc Obv I want him to have a caring side.

I guess I like women and men in the traditional roles, my Oh goes out to work to earn the money, I look after the house and kids.

 

[hot tea]

You like it, but why do you think you like it? Is it because by your nature as an animal? Or is it societal influence? What is you, what has been imprinted? Is it fair to imprint the same on your children, tell them what is right and wrong based solely on something preconcieved and doesn't actually exist on a natural level?