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[thelilbump]

Firstly big I'll be honest i am in the middle of work right now and don't have time to read your story the whole way through properly but i didn't want to read and run either.

I can't belive the mw told you to just formula feed! Surely you can measure his fluids by giving EBM? I haven't been through this personally though so I don't have much advice just

I'm sure there's a few ladies that may be able to help, i'll go and see if i can raise their attention for you hunny

Edit; I've dropped a couple a quick pm so hopefully they'll drop in when they have some time.

 

[TigerLady]

First, big

You are doing an amazing job. I am sure lilbump will be able to hook you up with someone that has gone through what you have. I never had those problems, so can only help minimally.

It sounds like you are doing everything right so far. I think the BFing consultant is a fab idea. Hopefully she will have good insight for you.

Personally, I agree with you about getting him as much bm as possbile for as long as possible. Esp as he was early. It will help him so much.

If you can hang in there for just a few more days, then the consultant should have good advice. I know you must be completely shattered and overwhelmed. Anyone would be in your situation.

If you really do want to eventually get to full time BFing, pumping frequently like you have been is the best way forward. At least until you get him latching and eating good from the boob. Can you tell if he is swallowing when he sucks? Are you sure it is pure comfort sucking?

Also, do you have good bottles for BFed babies? Many bottles have flows that are much easier than nursing, which makes the baby reluctant to do the work at the boob. There are bottles that mimic the work that baby needs to do at the boob and might help get him used to sucking better.

 

[New2Bumps]

Thanks ladies xxx
I can't really tell if he's feeding or just sucking - can't hear him swallow.
We have the closer to nature slow flow bottles.
At hospital he was on the fast flow old fashioned teats and someone told us he'd never take to the slow flow but he did, straight away.

 

[mummy3]

new2bumps
Firstly, congrats on your lo! I know exactly what you are going through, my first 2 were 35/36 weekers who spend a week in and out of the nicu and I recently had a 33 weeker who spend 10 days there. My babies all had some formula whilst in the NICU to keep their blood sugars up but I went on to exclusively breastfeed all of them!
Its not going to be easy, you are going to be exhausted and probably wont have the energy to do anything but see to your baby, but you can swap to fully breastfeeding and it WILL be worth it!
As her birth is most recent i'll focus on my daughter Anja, when she was born she went straight to nicu and I tried to express but it just wasnt enough and I was an hour away from the hospital. I was desperate to breastfeed and would try at least once a day while she fussed and came on and off, if she went on at all!
After I got her home we holed up, I had no formula in the house so this was it! I put her on every couple of hours and persevered no matter how many times she came off or fussed, It was very frustrating and I think my dh got a lot of rants But the milk came within a couple of days, and she started putting on weight
That first couple of days when you are building up supply are hardest so be prepared but it gets a lot easier as you and your baby get used to it! Your body can produce enough milk, it may seem impossible as you cant measure exactly what your baby is getting but ethan will surprise you!
Good luck and if you need anyone to talk to you can pm me

 

[mummy3]

Also I still cant tell the differences between my babies sucking, I never hear her swallow can you feel the letdown? Alot is comfort sucking at this age but that does lessen after a couple of months. It is totally normal! x

 

[New2Bumps]

Hi and thanks!
No I can't feel the letdown
I really would prefer just to go for the bfing but am on docs orders to continue with the 60ml feeds every 3 hours...

 

[TigerLady]

That is good progress then (switching flows)!

TBH, I have never been able to "hear" my LO swallow either. Maybe when your LO is latched on, give your bb a gentle compression to make sure a bit of milk gets in his mouth and see what happens - -whether he swallows or it comes out his mouth. Maybe that will also encourage him to want to get more milk from the bb??

Soo glad Mummy3 came along!!!! It's great to hear from someone how has been there.

 

[TennisGal]

New2Bumps first of all.

I think you are doing a wonderful, wonderful job - and feeding your DS BM really will give him a great start.

Definitely get the BF consultant involved, and I'd also give the NCT a call - they have lots and lots of people on hand to both offer advice, come round and actually lend practical advice or just talk a few things through. Your MW should also be able to recommend a Snr MW with specific BF experience...who can spend some quality time with you. If she's being unhelpful, ask to see someone else. One MW who came to see me was really not so great, we had a bit of a moan - and I got a much better Snr MW.

If I am unsure whether DD is swallowing, I sometimes rest my index finger gently on her throat, and I can feel it.

BF is not easy at first, it's a learning thing for both us as Mummys and LOs and babies - but it does get easier.

 

[mummy3]

tigerlady! Ive been lurking around for over a year now just very shy thankyou for your warm welcome! Feeding my lo as we speak
new2bumps,Im not sure why the docs are making you keep up the formula, I was allowed to breastfeed exclusively straight away, there are lots of different opinions even among docs, maybe you can ask another one? Also is your baby jaundiced? Some formula is sometimes recommended if baby has breastfeeding jaundice. As for the letdown it can be very vague in some women, do your breasts go softer after a feed? My letdown feels like a tickly feeling in my nipple.
One other thing, With my preemies I found they fed more often than full term newborns and this went on a bit longer, but they did eventually sleep through at about 10 weeks/ 3 months. x

 

[wishingonastar]

New2Bumps...

ok...firstly, well done on battling on it would have been so easy to give up already especially given the lack of help and support you've had from medical staff in establishing and succeeding with breastfeeding.

also, don't beat yourself up about what you could have done (e.g. skin to skin in hospital) - hindsight is a wonderful thing but it also sucks! you can't change it, you didn't know better so don't feel you've let yourself down

i'll admit i don't have personal experience in your situation, but from what i've read and from my own experience i'd suggest the following...

if LO is latching well and drawing milk i think you should feed him from breast only for now, to give him the chance to establish himself there and to get used to working for the milk instead of relying on the fast, easy flow of drinking from a bottle and also to give your boobs a chance to produce enough milk for him as breastfeeding works on a supply and demand basis. your LO can get far more milk by latching on and drinking than you can by expressing so by getting him over to this it will be more efficient for both of you

i think you should try offering him your breast (for now if he's getting cross with milk not coming out instantly you could stimulate your nipples to trigger letdown then latch him on so the initial work is done for him) and make sure he's drinking the fore and hind milk (fore milk comes first and is like a drink, hind milk comes after about 5-10 mins sucking and is like a meal and more fatty)

if he is giving hunger cues less than an hour and a half after feeding, put him to the same breast again as last time to give him a chance to draw the hind milk at the next sitting, but if its been more than an hour and a half put him to the second breast instead

if you feel he has drained a breast (you can't see milk round his chops when he pulls away, or milk doesn't come out fairly easily when you squeeze breast) then swap him to other side during that feed

the aim is for him to be contented and happy between feeds, alert when awake and to be gaining weight at weigh ins... if he appears content between feeds (and its normal as a newborn for him to want feeds approx every 2 hours so don't worry he's not got enough) then i'd try to only BF him, using formula as an emergency back up and then get him weighed after a week. his weight gain may decrease slightly but so long as he's still putting it on and not losing from his last weigh in then BFing is working

the reason i'm saying to try the big jump from half and half to solely BFing is you'll give him a chance to build your supply to what it needs to be and you'll drastically cut the demands on you by not expressing so much so you'll feel more rested and able to concentrate on him and you

if you're worried your supply isn't enough at the mo you can also boost it by pumping off what's left on the side he's just fed on once he's finished a sitting. your body takes 2-3 days to adjust your supply to meet your baby's demands and it's virtually unheard of for a body to not produce enough milk so give it a chance and i'm sure you'll be fine...have faith in your body

also, as your LO was premature he may find it extra tiring to BF at the mo as it is hard, tiring work for LO's so he may initially feed more often than every 2 hours (as well as cluster feeding once a day to build up his stocks). Put him to the breast every time he's crying for hunger and allow him to comfort suck as this alone increases supply due to the body response

I hope what i've written makes sense and is of use to you...feel free to PM me if you need any more input/support
x

 

[avabear73]

I'm a bit late but wanted to give you huge - you are doing amazingly well considering everything. The others have given you great advice - I'd say try compression when he's on the boob as well as continuing to stimulate letdown before you latch him on. Also, put him on the boob as much as you possibly can. Even if it means you practically live in your bed with him for a couple of days just feeding, expressing, cuddling and persevering with latching - it will really pay off in terms of his latch, your supply and maybe most importantly of all, your confidence.

Try not to look back - hindsight will kill you! If I look back to my experience I'd change loads, but I didn't know any better then, I did my best at the time, that's all I can expect of myself. What you are doing now is wonderful, your LO is very fortunate to have a Mum who is doing so much to give him the best start possible.

Remember that even if he had been full term, he'd STILL be learning how to BF and so would you ... it takes babies a good while for things to kick in. But they are quick learners so try not to worry

Sending you lots of hugs - keep us posted and let us know if there's anything you need

 

[New2Bumps]

Tenninsgal - I'll try feeling the swallow with the finger, good idea. My MW seems to be a bit take it or leave it with BF and she's saying the right things but gives the impression she thinks I've missed the boat but she's trying I think. She's actually not my normal MW - my normal one has been on holiday but I'm seeing her on Friday so maybe she'll have some fresh ideas. I did ask the MW about a bf consultant and she said she knows of a bf support group near me and she's going to call the organiser and ask her to get in touch. I've also arranged with a friend who bf's her 4mth old to come with me to a children's centre who does a baby group that has a bf group within.

Mummy3 - it's not the doctor really that was my mistake, just he was in neonatal and when we left they said to keep up the routine and measured amounts for at least a week and the mw apps since have backed that up - I asked today if I could try bf the 'normal' method but they said not a good idea - it's prob cuz of the probs he had in neonatal inc. the jaundice he had and he did have probs feeding (lazy feeding really) plus he hasn't gained weight yet... Also about the letdown... I do at times get a tingly feeling in the nipple but thought that was the milk coming in?! lol

Wishingonastar - thanks for some good advice especially the timings. Unfortunately I can't switch to soely trying to bf - I asked the mw and she said not at the moment - cuz of the probs he had etc...

 

[wishingonastar]

obviously i'm not a medical person and don't understand the full circumstances, but what i would suggest is to seek second opinions if you feel your opinions differ at any point from your medical provider. Reason I say this, is the amount of times i see cases where midwives and/or doctors are against or unhelpful in supporting the mother to BF and push for inclusion of formula when they could actually BF if given proper support and help

if you feel he needs a combination still then thats fair enough (its ultimately your decision!) but when (if) you ever feel he's ready to transition then seek second opinions if your health advisers remain against it but without apparent good reason

hope i make sense!

 

[New2Bumps]

Thanks avabear... I'll def try that bed day! We've put this Wednesday aside for that!

Great ideas ladies and lots of support - I feel a bit more positive

Can't wait to get someone who can be my one to one too as well as all of you wonderfully exprienced ladied offering advice xxx

 

[TigerLady]

Your milk should only have one big "come in" time. That is when it switches from colustrum to milk. If you are getting milk, you are past that time. When mine came in, it was the middle of the night on the third day and my body about had a melt down. I don't think most women go through that, but most have engorged breasts and/or some leaking at the least.

My let down feeling varies a bit - sometimes it is very obvious and feels like a rush of hot, thick liquid starting at my chest wall and moving toward my nipples. Sometimes it is tingly through my whole boob. Sometimes it is just tingle nipples. Sometimes is it is a barely noticable warm sensation in my breasts. The only consistent thing is that the milk starts flowing better after it. When I pump I don't feel it at all.

After BFing is established and both you and LO know what to do, it is likely he will suck fast at first until he gets the let down going... then the sucks start becoming slower and stronger. Like longer pulls. But don't expect that until LO starts to feed longer and figures out what is going on.

I really hope the BFing consultant and/or group offers good advice and support for you!

 

[wishingonastar]

also i notice you've said your midwife seems to think you've missed the boat with BFing...your baby is still young and you're not completely relactating, just increasing your supply and transitioning hopefully one day...you have not missed the boat at all! she can poke that unhelpful attitude up her bum!

 

[TigerLady]

haha! Wishing you are too funny! But I agree.

N2B -- you can also have a look at the thread lilbump is working on -- under the spoiler there are specializations. If you see a name there under a specialization that you think might help you (like combi feeding, NICU or preemies) you can PM that person. Also, if you think any particular lady is connecting with you and your needs well, then just PM them, even if they don't have a lot of experience with what you are going through.

Here's the thread:

https://www.babyandbump.com/breastfeeding/233153-bfing-champions-old-new.html

 

[New2Bumps]

Yes Wishingonastar I'll bear that in mind - my time in hospital did show me that opinions differed a lot and weren't necessarily 'medical' opinions but personal ones.
At the moment LO won't latch on for more than a minute or so. Once he is on for 5 mins or more then I think I could be reasonably sure that he's feeding?

 

[TigerLady]

It's hard to say -- my LO has been known to purely comfort suck for up to an hour at a time.

Eventually you will learn the difference between comfort sucking and feeding -- comfort sucking is like these short, little pulses where mostly their lips move. Feeding is more pulls where their jaw and cheeks moves, too.

Can you squeeze a bit of milk out by hand? If you can, do that, then put LO on, then squeeze again when LO is on so you know milk comes out. See what LO does -- swallows, chokes, gags, dribbles milk out the side, are all possibilities. Either way, it will tell you a lot about where he is.

Can you try that a few times in succession and let us know how it goes? Maybe we can help more then.

Also, at this point with your situation, it is not possible to offer the boob too often, IMO. Offer it constantly. You never know when you will get a breakthrough!

 

[New2Bumps]

Tigerlady - My milk def looks more like milk and not colostrum and I'm expressing about 15ml in just over 10 mins so it must've come in. Have got some of those Fenugreek tablets that I've heard increase the supply and will start taking them tomorrow.

Thanks for your detailed advice! I do try to hand express a little onto the nipple but it's only drips - think I need practice at that. I'll try it a few times and let you know. Also, I might use the pump to get the let down over with and then offer LO the boob and see if he seems happier to suck then.