Get your own personal BnB BF Champion and one-on-one BF support here!

[~Mummy~]

Thanks for your reply, I will ask my GP about zoloft.

I feed her on demand so sometimes it can be 2h or even 5h in between. Sorry, what I wrote was a bit confusing... She has never been a crying type baby, she will complain or just do a quiet moany cry, if that makes sense, when she wants feeding. But as soon as I start laying her down and getting my boob out she will start screaming and gasping. It's a bit hard to explain...

I have tried different positions, laying down seem to be the best at the moment but still hard.

I also forgot to mention that I'm pretty sure it is not a supply issue because I check each time and when I try to express a bit it always comes squirting out so there is still plenty there.

I've also tried feeding her while I'm led down with her on top of me, because I figured the milk was coming to fast for her, but she acts the same after a couple of minutes.

 

[vaileasmama]

VM:
A couple of things...

Get her checked by a different doctor about reflux and GERD. Do it asap. It is entirely possible she has it, but you need to figure that out for sure. The advice to put her on rice is RUBBISH!! Just like you thought. However, there are meds that she can have that will make a huge difference to her. You need to see a doc that is open to figuring out if she really does have reflux but wants to treat it with medicine and not cereal!

As for "speaking firmly" to a 3 month old advice you got from the nruse.... I could happily shake that nurse! That is advice you give to someone with a much much older baby. Not such a young one. Your girl is too young to understand dicipline. She doesn't have any clue what you are saying. She only know that you are angry at her but she doesn't understand why. And she doesn't have the ability to make the connection between her biting and your anger. She only knows she was feeding and you got angry.

Don't be upset with yourself for following the advice. It makes sense you would. However, I would offer much different advice for that. A super young baby biting like that is a tough one to solve. And you might have to put up with bit if biting before you get it stopped. But the good news is she doesn't have teeth yet so it won't do damage to you. LOL

If she clamps down and doesn't let go, shove her face into your boob so her nose is covered. Keep it there until she lets go. She will eventually unclamp in order to breathe. It sounds cruel, it is actually the best way to get a biting baby to let go.

If she bites, get her off your boob and stop feeding her. Don't let her feed again for about a minute or so. If she does it a second time, end the feeding session for at least several minute. This is tricky with one so young and EBF, esp if they are crying to be fed. Just do the best you can with it.

Once she is closer to 6-8 months, you can do the same routine with an added, firm "NO" when she bites. And end the session for longer on the second bite (I did about 30 or more minutes). At that age, they are more able to make the connection that biting means no more boob.

I don't know whether getting your hair done is related or not. I would think not, but I suppose it is possible. Either way, nothing you can do about that one now.

To be completely honest, I really think discomfort while feeding (i.e. reflux issues) is your main culprit here. She probably wants to eat, but can't because it hurts. For whatever reason it might be worse at some points in the day than others. So, get her to a good doc. In the meantime, you can put yourself on a very bland diet and that might help a little.

Most of all, don't feel guilty for any past mistakes you made. You are working your way through this and it isn't easy. Moms make mistakes. That's just part of it. Forgive yourself for making them.... then don't make them again. That's the best you can do. Don't carry guilt or shame around for trying to make her feed... you were only doing what you thought best for her at the time. Afterall, she needs to eat! But now you know it doesn't work, so just don't try it again.

You are probably in for some rough days until you can get to the doc and see about the reflux and/or she gets over her hang ups. In the meantime, try the bland diet and try making nursing a positive experience for her. Play some soft music, have some quiet co-sleeping naps/nursing sessions, try nursing in a warm bath, etc.

Hang in there!!

tigerlady, thank you so much!
im sitting here crying, your response was so wonderful and lovely.
im going to do everything you suggest, and will take her to the doctor on monday - my normal doctor, not the idiotic one!
in the mean time im gonna start a very strict diet - everythng u said makes sense, and i cant wait to see if it works!
you've given me hope again, and i cant thank u enough

 

[TigerLady]

I'm glad you have hope again!

Come back and let me know how things are going.

 

[StonesWife]

TL- Things are going much better! I've even managed to get some output with my pup again! Woohoo!! Thanks for your advice, I think I just needed some encouragement. What do you do for work?

 

[TigerLady]

Glad to hear that SW!

I work for the local gov't in an office setting. My boss in an elected official and very understanding and nice about my kids. So, it has worked out very well for me. I'm lucky.

 

[JudeMc]

Hello ladies... Mom to be and VM hope things are getting better for you!!

I finally managed to get my post birth check up and the MW told me that although there was no visible sign of thrush on my nipples or in Cosmos mouth that the jagged tatooing sensation could be just that..thrush. She has recommended a gel to try before feeding and if the symptoms go away.. then it was thrush.!!

I didn't rush out and but it coz to me I would rather try the positioning tips first.

After that we went to his first check up with the doc and he is down 500g in 2 weeks, they want to check him next week to see if he is still losing. So yes.. you know that this then made me paranoid.. so for the rest of friday I fed him whenever he seemed unsettled with the football position and it was ok

But now!!! Both nipples are Sore... he is feeding and still falling asleep and i mean ASLEEEEEEP then waking up 10 mins to 1 hour later for more... then falling asleep again within a few minutes of being on and just fluttering there with the odd suck and swallow.

I am thinking about just expressing and feeding him bottles of EBM for the next 24 hours as I am also worried that my supply isn't quite what it was my boobs aren't feeling as full or dripping like they were. And expressing isn't as sore.

???

 

[TigerLady]

Use the treatment for thrush regardless. I can't hurt and might help.

I would be cautious of expressing for that long unless you really feel it is necessary. My reasons for this are: What you get from pumping is not a good indication of what your supply is or how much baby takes. For example, many women can't get nearly as much pumping as baby is able to get. Also, there is the opposite end of the spectrum... I can pump up to 15 oz in one go! and I KNOW my baby doesn't take that much at one feed. So, pumping and direct feeding are two very different games when it comes to judging supply.

Also, if you are having troubles and do that for a full day it could just cause more trouble. If your LO decides he likes the bottle better, then you are in for an even bigger fight to get him on the boob. And switching to exclusively expressing is a BAD idea unless you have no other choice.

I usually recommend exclusive pumping (for any length) only if there is a reason that mom CAN'T feed baby. And I never suggest it when there is problems until all possible solutions have failed.

But, ultimately, it is up to you.

Honestly, start with the thrush meds. It may solve more of your problems than you think. Thrush makes nursing painful for BOTH mom and baby. So, it is possible that Cosmo isn't nursing well because it is painful for him, too.

 

[~Mummy~]

Just wondered if anyone had any more advice?

I still haven't been able to talk to my HV or anyone else about it...

 

[OpheliaX]

She could be having reflux or maybe something you are eating is making her mad. Lucian went on a small strike a few times and would scream bloody murder once when I ate a lot of tomato sauce and a few times when I ate garlic. He did not like it at all.

This might seem strange but what about trying to nurse while in the tub. It is relaxing for both of you. Put some music on, burn a candle see if it helps?

 

[Heulyn]

Hi :wave:

I'm Leah, a first-time mum-to-be, and I'd quite like a BF Champion to chat with.

I'm planning on combination feeding using formula and EBM, not straight on the breast, but I've not really got much idea on how to go about it, so would love to chat with someone who's done similar, if possible?

Thank youuu x

 

[TigerLady]

Hi :wave:

I'm Leah, a first-time mum-to-be, and I'd quite like a BF Champion to chat with.

I'm planning on combination feeding using formula and EBM, not straight on the breast, but I've not really got much idea on how to go about it, so would love to chat with someone who's done similar, if possible?

Thank youuu x

Hi, hon! Congrats on the baby.

Can you be a little more specific about your plans? Maybe explain why you plan to do a combo of expressing and nursing? How much do you want/intend to do of each?

I ask only because it will help with whatever advice might work best for you. And that expressing in the earliest days (first few weeks) can make things harder instead of easier, so is generally only a good idea if there is a big reason for doing it.

I've used EBM for both my kids, but not until they were each a few weeks old. They've both gotten EBM once I went back to work, though (at 13 weeks for DS and 9 weeks for DD). So, it is doable.

 

[Heulyn]

Hi, hon! Congrats on the baby.

Can you be a little more specific about your plans? Maybe explain why you plan to do a combo of expressing and nursing? How much do you want/intend to do of each?

I ask only because it will help with whatever advice might work best for you. And that expressing in the earliest days (first few weeks) can make things harder instead of easier, so is generally only a good idea if there is a big reason for doing it.

I've used EBM for both my kids, but not until they were each a few weeks old. They've both gotten EBM once I went back to work, though (at 13 weeks for DS and 9 weeks for DD). So, it is doable.

Thankyou

To be honest, it's because I really don't like the idea of having baby on the boob - sounds terrible, I know! - but I love the idea of providing breastmilk as EBM.
I know the first few days will probably have to be on the boob, but to be honest I don't really understand it all and how it all works

We had been planning to exclusively FF, as this would be a lot easier on me and the OH, but we've talked about it, and want to at least try to get some boobie-juice into our baby.

There's not really a hugely big reason for expressing instead of feeding on the boob, other than I like to see how much exactly is getting into baby, that I'm not so keen on nursing, and that OH can give baby EBM as well as just me.
We're combining with formula because I don't want to be expressing forever, and it was going to be our first choice anyway.

That all sounds a bit selfish, I know, but I think it's what might work best for us.

 

[TigerLady]

So you are aiming for a combi FF and EBM. Got it.

There a many things to consider in your situation. So, please bear with me if this gets a bit long.

First -- there are LOADS of women that start off in your situation. The thought of putting a baby on their boob and letting them suck away just freaks them out. Personally, I think this is a result of our society over sexualizing a women's breasts. By the time most women have babies they have seen breasts as nothing but sexual objects there for the pleasure of men and to fill out a top so they can look sexy. So, the thought of allowing a baby... YOUR baby... to use these sexual objects is a bit off putting to say the least.

Try to wrap your head around the idea that your breasts were NOT designed to be sexual objects. They are designed, first and foremost, to be utilities that feed a child. Have you ever seen "primitive" cultures that dress little? They usually cover their lower bits, but not women's boobs. Because those are there for a purpose other than a sexual one.

Anyway, most (not all, but the vast majority) get over those hang ups very early on. They latch that baby on and suddenly find it completely natural and not strange at all. Then you even have ladies like me... I've been BFing for nearly 19 months straight now, almost 6 months of BFing two at once... I have to remind myself my boobs can be sexual!

So, don't assume just because you find it weird now that you will always find it weird.

I think it would be in your best interest to suss out exactly what kind of goal you have. Otherwise you won't know if you are coming or going. Do you only want to BFed the colostrum? Or for the first week? Or the first month? If you want to BFed at all, I would highly recommend not starting with FF until after you are done BFing. You will likely just make more problems for yourself than you want. Nipple confusion would be likely, too. It would most likely end up in giving up the BFing end of it before you intended, which might lead to guilt issues.

As for expressing, keep in mind expressing isn't as easy as it sounds. Especially exclusively expressing. That is the HARDEST route to go. By far. It combines all the problems of FFing with BFing and piles on the difficulty.

I think if you are truly interested in giving any kind of BFing a go (which I HIGHLY suggest), you should commit yourself to trying it for at least a few days until your milk comes in. If you get into it and find it completely impossible, then you can express as much as you can as often as you can until you dry up or don't want to express anymore. Supplement with formula and switch to pure FF after you stop expressing.

As for not knowing how BFing works, it really is quite natural for most babies and moms. Not all, but most. There will be some pain in the early days while you adjust, and it may take a little work to figure out to get baby to latch really well, but they have an amazing instinct for it. My DS was better at judging his latch from the moment he was born than I was! DD, on the other hand, was a bit lazier, but I never had to work too hard to get it sorted.

If you are interested, I can go into details about when you nurse the first time, how you do it, what a good latch is, etc etc. But that is another long post, so I won't go on about it here unless you want.

So, why should you consider giving BFing a go? Because I think you are more open to it than you think. You came on here afterall!! And it might not be as bad as you think it will be. You might even find that you like the special bond it creates. I always wanted to BFed my children because I knew it was best for their health and well being... I never had any clue it would come to mean so much to me, too. You can always stop BFing and start FFing if you find it isn't for you. However, once you move to FFing it is nearly impossible to go back to BFing. So, if you want to give it a go, you need to try BFing first.

Not to mention the health benefits. BFed babies tend to be healthier and smarter. More than one study has shown that.

So, I can give specific advice about how to do just about anything you want... but I think you should decide on definite goals first. Then, let me know what those goals are and we will work from there!

 

[Heulyn]

I think if you are truly interested in giving any kind of BFing a go (which I HIGHLY suggest), you should commit yourself to trying it for at least a few days until your milk comes in. If you get into it and find it completely impossible, then you can express as much as you can as often as you can until you dry up or don't want to express anymore. Supplement with formula and switch to pure FF after you stop expressing.

I think what you've said there pretty much hits the nail on the head to be honest!

And thank you, that's really useful for me
I've been a bit lost and indecisive about the whole thing really, umm-ing and ahh-ing....
I've got all the bits I need for whatever type of feeding I go with anyway, so I guess it's a case of waiting to see how I get on with nursing from the boob before I make any decisions about expressing/FF.
Like you said, I might start BFing and then just not want to stop!
Thanks so much! I'll keep you informed

 

[TigerLady]

Anytime!

If you'd like more details about what to expect and what to do during those first few days, feel free to ask! The more you know, the more likely you will be to make it work and actually like it.

 

[JudeMc]

Use the treatment for thrush regardless. I can't hurt and might help.

I would be cautious of expressing for that long unless you really feel it is necessary. My reasons for this are: What you get from pumping is not a good indication of what your supply is or how much baby takes. For example, many women can't get nearly as much pumping as baby is able to get. Also, there is the opposite end of the spectrum... I can pump up to 15 oz in one go! and I KNOW my baby doesn't take that much at one feed. So, pumping and direct feeding are two very different games when it comes to judging supply.

Also, if you are having troubles and do that for a full day it could just cause more trouble. If your LO decides he likes the bottle better, then you are in for an even bigger fight to get him on the boob. And switching to exclusively expressing is a BAD idea unless you have no other choice.

I usually recommend exclusive pumping (for any length) only if there is a reason that mom CAN'T feed baby. And I never suggest it when there is problems until all possible solutions have failed.

But, ultimately, it is up to you.

Honestly, start with the thrush meds. It may solve more of your problems than you think. Thrush makes nursing painful for BOTH mom and baby. So, it is possible that Cosmo isn't nursing well because it is painful for him, too.

Thanks again chuck.. I didn't express in the end, but will buy the gel tomorrow. My OH is getting a little worried about wee mans weight and also I think how tired I am getting. He wants to look into formula supplement so we can do both... will let you know how it goes xx

 

[aob1013]

thelilbump can you reply to my PM's please?

 

[xnmd1]

tigerlady, i see you've been giving lots of great advice.
i see you're on the list under expressing so maybe you can offer me some help

i've been exclusively expressing for 10 weeks now, but i can't get enough milk to feed LO 100% breast milk. do you have any tips for increasing my supply?

I pump every 2/3 hours now plus once through the night, eat loads of oatmeal, and take fenugreek.
what else can i be doing?

 

[TigerLady]

Hi, hon! :wave:

I'm impressed that you've been able to EE for so long! Good job. I know that is very hard going.

It sounds like you have a good start with the oatmeal and fenugreek. How much fenugreek are you taking? You should take enough so that you smell like maple syrup. Sounds strange, but that is when it becomes most effective. You can actually smell it yourself.

Other things to try:
-- up your protein intake. Lots of protein can help build milk supply.
-- try Mother's Milk Tea (if you can stomach it). It has fenugreek, but also some other herbs, like alfalfa that might help, too.
-- make sure you are overloaded on healthy fluids (water, juice, milk... water being best of course). Avoid caffiene. If you do drink anything with caffiene in it, replace it with more water. The caffiene acts as a diuretic, so for every 8 oz of fluid you drink with caffiene in it, you need 8 oz of water just to "break even."
--What kind of pump are you using? I hope a good one. If it is, have you tried varying suction and/or cycle speed to see if different combinations work better than others?
-- Keep pumping for at least 5 minutes after you have gone "dry." The increased stimuation should help increase your supply.
-- If your LO is in a growth spurt and eating more than usual, pump more than usual to keep up with him. When my LOs are in spurts they feed anywhere from 12-24 times per day. Sometimes only 5 minutes at a time, but it seems like they are always wanting boob. That increased stimulation is what increases my supply to keep up with their needs.
-- Worst to worst, ask for a script of domperidone. It is usually really good at upping milk supply. But does have side effects and small risks, so read up on those first.

Does any of that sound like place to start? Let me know what you think.

HTH

 

[xnmd1]

Hi, hon! :wave:

I'm impressed that you've been able to EE for so long! Good job. I know that is very hard going.

It sounds like you have a good start with the oatmeal and fenugreek. How much fenugreek are you taking? You should take enough so that you smell like maple syrup. Sounds strange, but that is when it becomes most effective. You can actually smell it yourself.

Other things to try:
-- up your protein intake. Lots of protein can help build milk supply.
-- try Mother's Milk Tea (if you can stomach it). It has fenugreek, but also some other herbs, like alfalfa that might help, too.
-- make sure you are overloaded on healthy fluids (water, juice, milk... water being best of course). Avoid caffiene. If you do drink anything with caffiene in it, replace it with more water. The caffiene acts as a diuretic, so for every 8 oz of fluid you drink with caffiene in it, you need 8 oz of water just to "break even."
--What kind of pump are you using? I hope a good one. If it is, have you tried varying suction and/or cycle speed to see if different combinations work better than others?
-- Keep pumping for at least 5 minutes after you have gone "dry." The increased stimuation should help increase your supply.
-- If your LO is in a growth spurt and eating more than usual, pump more than usual to keep up with him. When my LOs are in spurts they feed anywhere from 12-24 times per day. Sometimes only 5 minutes at a time, but it seems like they are always wanting boob. That increased stimulation is what increases my supply to keep up with their needs.
-- Worst to worst, ask for a script of domperidone. It is usually really good at upping milk supply. But does have side effects and small risks, so read up on those first.

Does any of that sound like place to start? Let me know what you think.

HTH

thank you.
i've been taking fenugreek for about 2 weeks now, 3 pills 3 times a day and its honestly done crap all
i'm using a first years dual electric pump.

besides the mothers milk tea i've done everything on your list except ask for domperidone.

its possible i hanv't been getting enough fluids but i've been trying to take in more lately

do you know anything about cluster pumping or power pumping .. do you think this could be useful?