Hitting/spanking your kids..

[Blah11]

Im afraid it is more of an awful place nowdays, you only have to speak to people that were around then and it was alot different to what today is

People tend to see their childhoods with rose-tinted glasses. We do it too. My gran does it and she was a kid whilst WW2 was going on... Now you can't tell me getting bombed and evacuated was a barrel of laughs. Nostalgia does funny things to our memory.

 

[Shri]

I just want to say that I don't think the rise in violence and crime among youngsters today is anything to do with the 'no-smacking' trend. I think it is to do with lack of discipline in general, quick fixes in terms of both discipline and rewards and the increasing emphasis on instant gratification and materialism. There are kids who live near my mum who I have seen get smacked and yelled at, but they still continue with extremely anti-social and destructive aggressive behavior.

I hear people 'discipline' their kids by shouting 'stop that now you little sh*t!' etc. and from what I have seen, it does no good. Perhaps they temporarily stop until the parent loses attention again, and then they go back to whatever it was they were doing. It is as if they are acclimatized to that sort of (negative and demeaning) communication so it makes little difference to them and does nothing to instill any emotions of understanding or respect or even regret for harmful actions, but just goads them into being more daring with what they can get away with.

I could ramble about this for ages.

For me, what it comes down to is generating an environment where discipline is something the kids learn from, it increases their understanding and self-development in a positive way and whether smacking is part of it or not, this can only be achieved when the parents are themselves, considerate, respectful and motivated by love. I think a lot of people have just gotten terribly disorientated and lazy. A lot of blame is put on not having enough money, and that is indeed very very difficult, but we expect more now. All the wanting of material STUFF has taken over from more real sources of happiness. Those kids that are out stabbing people have completely lost touch with what happiness really is, and that is very very sad.

 

[heather91]

My mom and dad used to smack my bum if I was really naughty. It never really hurt that I can remember, it just humiliated me big time and did stop me doing naughty things!

 

[oOKayOo]

People tend to see their childhoods with rose-tinted glasses. We do it too. My gran does it and she was a kid whilst WW2 was going on... Now you can't tell me getting bombed and evacuated was a barrel of laughs. Nostalgia does funny things to our memory.

I didnt tell you from my experience i said other people have to me. I dont know what it was like so cant comment. This is totally of subject though i just pointed out this as my family had a debate about 'the nowadays' and back in 'the day' wasnt as bad. This is what all of them said that was all

WW2 was something major that happned didnt happen every single day in her life? Nor did it my nan and grandfather. Im speaking in general everyday life there seems to be something going on be it shooting or stabbing , but like i stated before it all depends where you live. I dont think smacking as everything to do with corrupt kids nowdays just a part imo.

smacking a childs bum does not make children thugs.. BEATING a child will most likely have that effect.

IM just going to agree to disagree there IS no right as every parent is different with the upbringing of there children.

 

[mBLACK]

IM just going to agree to disagree there IS no right as every parent is different with the upbringing of there children.

I second that.

 

[PeanutBean]

This is all so interesting! Loads of quotes so long post! Sorry!

Then why is it wrong for me to go out and smack somebody who does something wrong to me? I should be allowed to slap every individual who I believe is being disrespectful towards me and/or my beliefs, because all in all what some parents view as disrespectful and something that deserves a slap other parents don't. It's their decision as an individual to slap their child/ren, not that the child has any say in the matter, therefore it should be my decision to slap anybody I please who doesn't abide by my morals.
Look at the example I gave, how do you explain that?

I would explain it by saying that as an adult you are aware of right and wrong and have your own set of moral guidelines, and also as an adult you could seriously hurt someone by resorting to physical violence. We're verbally, emotionally and morally developed enough to know that this is neither the most productive nor sensible way of dealing with things (at least I assume we are! lol)

As parents we are taking on the responsibility of telling our children what is right, wrong, acceptable or not etc because that's what's parenting is. No parent is perfect and some make serious mistakes that sadly affect their relationship with their child in the future, but we do the best we can and unless society deems our behaviour so unacceptable that we're not fit to be with our children then our ideals and morals will get transferred to our children through our behaviour. No-one said parenting was easy!

Ha, you say that like there's never been 'corrupt kids and teens' in past generations. There's ALWAYS been gangs and teens robbing etc etc they're just much more publicised these days b/c the media is changed. Don't delude yourself into thinking the world is much more of an awful place than it was 50 or 60 years ago.

Here here. I get so bored with the media and the constant spewing forth of isolated incidents giving the impression that it's common. It's scaremongering and irresponsible. Since the dawn of time humans have been b*stards to one another and slowly (we hope) we improve through more regulation and a better organized society. One person's experience of the world is rarely sufficient to get a full idea of how everyone lives, people from different classes, backgrounds etc have very different experiences of life. Just reading these responses in this thread shows us how different just our backgrounds have been. There have always been kids and adults who will be monsters.

There are kids who live near my mum who I have seen get smacked and yelled at, but they still continue with extremely anti-social and destructive aggressive behavior. I hear people 'discipline' their kids by shouting 'stop that now you little sh*t!' etc. and from what I have seen, it does no good...
It is as if they are acclimatized to that sort of (negative and demeaning) communication so it makes little difference to them and does nothing to instill any emotions of understanding or respect or even regret for harmful actions, but just goads them into being more daring with what they can get away with.

What you describe here though is exactly what you say, acclimatisation. This is not good discipline but is not a reflection on the efficacy or morality of smacking children. Kids will acclimatise to all sorts of discipline if it is carried out routinely and without any alteration to reflect the seriousness of their misbehaviour, is you see what I mean. The form and extent of discipline, IMO, should always be appropriate to the behaviour.

For me, what it comes down to is generating an environment where discipline is something the kids learn from, it increases their understanding and self-development in a positive way and whether smacking is part of it or not, this can only be achieved when the parents are themselves, considerate, respectful and motivated by love. I think a lot of people have just gotten terribly disorientated and lazy. A lot of blame is put on not having enough money, and that is indeed very very difficult, but we expect more now. All the wanting of material STUFF has taken over from more real sources of happiness. Those kids that are out stabbing people have completely lost touch with what happiness really is, and that is very very sad.

I couldn't agree more!

 

[Blah11]

I didnt tell you from my experience i said other people have to me. I dont know what it was like so cant comment. This is totally of subject though i just pointed out this as my family had a debate about 'the nowadays' and back in 'the day' wasnt as bad. This is what all of them said that was all

WW2 was something major that happned didnt happen every single day in her life? Nor did it my nan and grandfather. Im speaking in general everyday life there seems to be something going on be it shooting or stabbing , but like i stated before it all depends where you live. I dont think smacking as everything to do with corrupt kids nowdays just a part imo.

smacking a childs bum does not make children thugs.. BEATING a child will most likely have that effect.

IM just going to agree to disagree there IS no right as every parent is different with the upbringing of there children.

No, ww2 didn't happen everyday. It was an example at how it doesn't really matter how awful it really was, people will still say their days were the best. That generation was not as fabulous as people make it out to be AT ALL. What about all the race hate crimes that went on?

+ Fair enough, I probably have the same views as you but Mello was trying to say that THIS generation has a lot more crime b/c parents are too soft which IMO, is BS.

 

[Mamafy]

ok these questions go to the people who do/will smack:

If you see a mum/dad in say a supermarket lift her hand and smack a child on its bum so hard that the child is lifted of the ground, Is this still a reasonable smack?

If your child smacks back would you smack harder to reinforce why you smacked?

How can the weight of a mum/dad compare to that of say a toddler and how do you know what would indeed cause injury?


Ok my thoughts are very anti-smacking; I dont see normal smacking as abuse but I do see it as the parents having lost control not taking control.
Parenting is hard and toddlers children do test the boundaries all the time but I really dont see how smacking works. My nephews are smacked and it isnt working, they still are angry, naughty, hitting their mum/dad/friends at school.

So what happens when your children go to school and start using this way to discipline their friends.

Discipline doesnt have to involve smacking. There is always another way.

I have brought 5 children into this world and I havent smacked any of them, and they arent corrupt. They are the best natured, best mannered and most loving kids I know

 

[leeanne]

https://www.legal-info-legale.nb.ca/showpub.asp?id=147

In this article pertaining to Canadian law "mild spanking" is permissable.

Is spanking children against the law?



The law assumes that spanking a child to ‘correct’ the child’s behavior is not against the law as long as the force used is reasonable. Section 43 of the Criminal Code of Canada provides a defence for parents, parent substitutes and teachers who used corporal punishment to discipline a child in their care and who have been charged with physically assaulting that child. This section of the Criminal Code is often referred to as “the spanking provision”.



43. Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing in the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances.

Criminal Code of Canada



Does that mean it’s all right to use physical discipline with children?



Not necessarily. There is often a fine line between spanking a child and physical abuse of a child. If the force used slips into abusive, harmful or degrading conduct, it could result in a criminal charge or trigger a child protection investigation. There have been cases when parents or teachers have been charged with assault for spanking a child or using other forms of physical punishment. Over the past several years, many provinces have enacted legislation to prohibit the use of corporal punishment of students by teachers.

However, note this:

What limits did the Court set on reasonable force?



The Court determined that the following is not reasonable:



· Hitting a child under two years of age. It is wrong and harmful because spanking has no value with very young children and can destroy a child's sense of security and self-esteem. Children under two do not have the cognitive ability to understand why someone is spanking them.

· Corporal punishment of teenagers. It is not helpful and is potentially harmful to use force on teenagers because it achieves only short-term obedience and may alienate the youth and promote aggressive or other anti-social behaviour.

· Using objects to discipline a child such as belts, rulers, etc. This is potentially harmful both physically and emotionally.

· Slaps or blows to the head.

· Degrading or inhumane treatment.

· Corporal punishment which causes injury – (causing harm is child abuse).

Now, there is a bill that the government is trying to pass which is an anti-spanking law, which means, no spanking whatsoever.

It is true that there is a fine line between spanking and physical abuse of the child. I agree.

Another thing one has to watch is that a child may in fact start a whole can of worms by telling teachers etc. that they are being beaten when in fact they have been spanked mildly.

I find that spanking is a parent's frustration being taken out on a child because they don't take the time to think and consider other methods of punishment. However, unfortunately, if a parent spanks often it leads to more as well.

Oh, I have been tempted, let me tell you, with my kids. But if I did do it, that would be my own weakness and that's something I don't want to teach my kids.

 

[Sarah88]

It's interesting that it is ok for teachers to spank... And the age limit is interesting too, so between 2 and 13 is ok, lol. Whats the point?

 

[leeanne]

It's interesting that it is ok for teachers to spank... And the age limit is interesting too, so between 2 and 13 is ok, lol. Whats the point?

But the funny thing is, I've heard here that teachers cannot touch a child and will not and never do you hear that a teacher has spanked a child anymore. I thought it was absolute law that they could not but I think it is forthcoming very soon.

But what I think the teachers are trying to avoid are sexual harrassment and/or physical abuse charges so they will not lay a hand on a child here.

 

[leeanne]

Ah, here it is about different provinces:

Over the past several years, many provinces have enacted legislation to prohibit the use of corporal punishment of students by teachers.

Teachers that work in a province that have prohibited spanking through provincial legislation cannot touch a child.

I knew it was law, and it is here in British Columbia.

 

[Sarah88]

But the funny thing is, I've heard here that teachers cannot touch a child and will not and never do you hear that a teacher has spanked a child anymore. I thought it was absolute law that they could not but I think it is forthcoming very soon.

But what I think the teachers are trying to avoid are sexual harrassment and/or physical abuse charges so they will not lay a hand on a child here.

I think I would be so absolutely angry if I ever heard that my child was spanked by a teacher. I am pretty sure in Aus we have a law about it, I just thought it was interesting reading that about Canada

 

[leeanne]

Here's a true example of something that happened with my stepdaughter.

Her mother sometimes slaps her. The stepdaughter then went to her principal and told him that she was being abused. Yes, she is a drama queen at times, even if I don't agree with spanking or hitting.

Do you know what happened? If the principal hears of anything as such, he/she is required to contact the proper authorities.

Child welfare services was then brought in, her mother was investigated and had to also take parenting courses.

 

[Sarah88]

Here's a true example of something that happened with my stepdaughter.

Her mother sometimes slaps her. The stepdaughter then went to her principal and told him that she was being abused. Yes, she is a drama queen at times, even if I don't agree with spanking or hitting.

Do you know what happened? If the principal hears of anything as such, he/she is required to contact the proper authorities.

Child welfare services was then brought in, her mother was investigated and had to also take parenting courses.

This is something that we, as parents, definately need to be careful about too.

 

[leeanne]

This is something that we, as parents, definately need to be careful about too.

Exactly. That's why I'd rather not ever take the risk. Kids are looking for more attention too in addition to being more verbal.

The sad thing is is what is minor spanking to one person is different to another.

 

[Sarah88]

Exactly. That's why I'd rather not ever take the risk. Kids are looking for more attention too in addition to being more verbal.

The sad thing is is what is minor spanking to one person is different to another.

Definately, but I also think that the child needs to be properly educated and knows the consequences of such drama queen actions. I think that once every blue moon it is necessary to spank your kids, and if they know why and all then they are less likely to make up lies to other adults.

And your last statement is also true. You just need to walk through the shopping centres, if you see a parent spanking a child, even a small one you get many people looking at them with disgust.

 

[akamummy]

Let me tell you I aggree with kiwimama...I think a spank (what they call it in America) on the bottom or hand is not going to do any harm...TRY TEACHING A TODDLER WHO DOESNT UNDERSTAND RESONING HOW SOING SUCH AND SUCH IS NAUGHTY! Those of you without children yet (pregy with #1) will understand when you get to that stage...I dont think smaking (spanking) a baby is very good...but, when they get to the age where they understand no...well a little tap on the bottom or hand is going to help them understand that whenI do this, mummy will smack (spank) me...when they get older I think explaining and timeout helps both you (to keep your temper and frustration) and the child to understand why he/she should/nt do something etc....you know? Here in Ausie its like NZ, its illigal to smack (spank) your child in public. But i havent found anyone who would complain to police about spanking (on the bottom or hand) a child who is squealing their head off or having a tantrum. You know the ones I mean???
This is a VERY CONTRAVERCIAL subject...so well done for asking about it! But if you have some real concerns about disipline...do some reading...go to the library or something like that, reading and research is always a great way to find out about things for yourself! Not just listenening to what others say about it if you know what I mean!

 

[Sarah88]

Here in Ausie its like NZ, its illigal to smack (spank) your child in public. But i havent found anyone who would complain to police about spanking (on the bottom or hand) a child who is squealing their head off or having a tantrum. You know the ones I mean???

I didn't know that they've actually made a rule about smacking in public. The stupid government think they can control everything!

 

[leeanne]

ok these questions go to the people who do/will smack:

If you see a mum/dad in say a supermarket lift her hand and smack a child on its bum so hard that the child is lifted of the ground, Is this still a reasonable smack?

If your child smacks back would you smack harder to reinforce why you smacked?

How can the weight of a mum/dad compare to that of say a toddler and how do you know what would indeed cause injury?


Ok my thoughts are very anti-smacking; I dont see normal smacking as abuse but I do see it as the parents having lost control not taking control.
Parenting is hard and toddlers children do test the boundaries all the time but I really dont see how smacking works. My nephews are smacked and it isnt working, they still are angry, naughty, hitting their mum/dad/friends at school.

So what happens when your children go to school and start using this way to discipline their friends.

Discipline doesnt have to involve smacking. There is always another way.

I have brought 5 children into this world and I havent smacked any of them, and they arent corrupt. They are the best natured, best mannered and most loving kids I know

I agree with you hon.

And funny, you learn as they get older. I've implemented a new reward system this week and I have to say, I wish I had done it sooner. I've noticed a big difference in them the past few days.

Which is just it.

What reward does a child gain from spanking? Pain and fear? A misinterpretation of how to handle stress and frustration? And the unfortunate thing about spanking is usually no communication is given by the parent - just the wack on the bum, or what-not.

What reward does a child learn from being talked to about what he did wrong? The reward is perhaps an understanding as to why it was wrong so that he/she may not do it again.

Too often parents are quick to judge and give a child hell for what he did wrong, but are not quick to praise their child for what they did right. Thus the reward system works out greatly in punishment and praise.

Incorporating a reward system actually accomplishes many things.

BTW, my kids have not been spanked and they are pretty darn good kids. They have their moments, but we are working on them.