Home Birthers & Hopefuls!

[MandaAnda]

Depending on what you're midwives are like, maybe you should anticipate that being brought up. I really don't think it's a good enough "reason" for them to discourage a HB. If positioning gets brought up, you could say, "Of course I would seriously consider transferring to hospital if the baby was found to be breech or transverse. However, as I've had a good delivery with a baby known to be in a posterior presentation, I'm more than happy to do so again if he is in that position. I'm also aware that, as in my last labour, he could turn anterior during labour, as posterior babies often do." Or something like that! x

 

[HayleyJA]

My MW said "unstable" was basically a fidgety baby... perhaps liable to be engaged one minute and then maybe popped back up and slightly transverse the next etc. She didn't mention anything about back to back being a problem for a HB... I think it might just be more of a problem for Mummy!

 

[Stella Blue]

I LOVE THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again, BnBers never fail to amaze and impress!

In the states (or should I say the midwestern states), they make it very difficult to do a home-birth, and most of the local NP's and OBGYN's want NOTHING to with it--and if the family insists, oftentimes the OBGYN will want to drop them or threaten to "report" them to the state for 'negligence'. (goes on about the importance of immediate post-natal chech-up/ testing on infant.) They apparently don't realize that most of us having kids also have CARS and can get to a pediatrician w/in a few days of birth or that midwives are TRAINED to look for any issues surrounding the health of the baby!! A bunch of hooey BS!!

BUT...a friend of mine who lives down the road recently HB'd her third child. (first 2 at hosp.) Another friend of ours has fought an uphill battle for the past 6 years to become a midwife, and has finally been licensed and cert. in IL (BUT NOT AS A FULL-FLEDGED MW, YET).

My friend's HB went so well that she regrets ever using the hospital and being treated like she had an illness or something worse. She also did a water birth and just used a new, sterile Kiddie pool!!

Even though I am still ttc, I think about this often--by the time I have my baby (hopefully in OCT), it will be 11 years since I've given birth

SO MY QUESTION IS: From your knowledge or experience---does delaying the time between births make home birth more difficult, or rather, can it increase the chance of complications?? I would positively love to do a home birth w Jen (the MW that isn't allowed to be a MW...)

anyway--best of wishes ladies on your desires for a beautiful, natural (I was going to say "comfortable" but that's probably pushin it!!) home birth!!

(man, all of my posts are sooooo long...i will work on my brevity in the future!)

 

[Celesse]

I have spent sometime on labour ward a number of years ago as a student nurse (I am not a nurse any more...long story). I helped look after a lady who's baby was in an unstable lie. She was monitored throughout the labour and at 5cm dilated the babies heart rate went down to 60 and stayed down. She was rushed around to theatre and had a c-section under general anaesthetic. The baby was lucky to make it out ok. They were not sure sure exactly what caused baby's heart rate to go down, but it was thought that the cord got caught somewhere because of the unstable lie.

If my baby was unstable lie I wouldn't risk it at home.

 

[MandaAnda]

I wish you the best, Stella. I rang my mother before she headed into work today and updated her about my midwife appointment. I was saying how grateful I am to have my baby here. Luckily, she thought I meant at home. What I really meant was here in the UK (I'm American and am the only person in my family living abroad). I really don't think I'd be able to put up with the obstetricians and the way everything is so medicalised in the US. It also concerns me about the possibility of ever moving back there and working (I'm a nurse), as I think we enjoy so much more autonomy here.

I really admire those that go for a HB in the US though, as I know you do have to sometimes put up a hard fight for it, and not just with the healthcare professionals but loved ones and friends, too.

This also just reminded me, when I rang my parents, my dad asked, "So, is a midwife like a MA then?" (For non-Americans, a MA is a medical assistant and is sort of halfway between a healthcare assistant and an enrolled nurse with under one year of training.) I couldn't help myself and went, "Oh, my god, no!!! Our midwives are trained just as long as us nurses here are (3 years) at university and are responsible and accountable professionals with degrees." It made me think again how difficult it would be to have a home birth there, with uninformed people like him thinking all midwives are lay-people. I wonder what he must've thought these past 8 months - that I wasn't seeing an obstetrician (as the baby and I are fine, I'll probably never see one) but rather just some random that wasn't even as trained as I am?! Worrying. (But then a recent survey showed that a lot of the public here in the UK think that us nurses are only trained to NVQ level. *sigh*)

 

[Mervs Mum]

SO MY QUESTION IS: From your knowledge or experience---does delaying the time between births make home birth more difficult, or rather, can it increase the chance of complications?? I would positively love to do a home birth w Jen (the MW that isn't allowed to be a MW...)

Hi Stella! I had 14 yrs between my first and second babies. I can honestly say I could have had that 2nd baby at home no problem. She was posterior but apart from that (which isnt really a 'problem') my whole pregnancy went perfectly. I was better informed, I knew what I wanted and didnt want in labour and I was confident that my body would do what it was designed to do. My second birth was a breeze compared to my first and I think being older and wiser helped with that.

I have spent sometime on labour ward a number of years ago as a student nurse (I am not a nurse any more...long story). I helped look after a lady who's baby was in an unstable lie.

Can you tell me your understanding of the term 'unstable lie' - I'm still unsure

I wish you the best, Stella. I rang my mother before she headed into work today and updated her about my midwife appointment. I was saying how grateful I am to have my baby here. Luckily, she thought I meant at home. What I really meant was here in the UK (I'm American and am the only person in my family living abroad). I really don't think I'd be able to put up with the obstetricians and the way everything is so medicalised in the US. It also concerns me about the possibility of ever moving back there and working (I'm a nurse), as I think we enjoy so much more autonomy here.

I really admire those that go for a HB in the US though, as I know you do have to sometimes put up a hard fight for it, and not just with the healthcare professionals but loved ones and friends, too.

This also just reminded me, when I rang my parents, my dad asked, "So, is a midwife like a MA then?" (For non-Americans, a MA is a medical assistant and is sort of halfway between a healthcare assistant and an enrolled nurse with under one year of training.) I couldn't help myself and went, "Oh, my god, no!!! Our midwives are trained just as long as us nurses here are (3 years) at university and are responsible and accountable professionals with degrees." It made me think again how difficult it would be to have a home birth there, with uninformed people like him thinking all midwives are lay-people. I wonder what he must've thought these past 8 months - that I wasn't seeing an obstetrician (as the baby and I are fine, I'll probably never see one) but rather just some random that wasn't even as trained as I am?! Worrying. (But then a recent survey showed that a lot of the public here in the UK think that us nurses are only trained to NVQ level. *sigh*)

I think part of the problem in the US is because health care is 'business' people want 'the best' and believe that a Dr is the best - even though they are better trained in complicated or high risk births and MWs are better placed to attend 'normal' births. Like you said Manda, in the US there seems to be a notion that a MW is some untrained old crone or hippy/crunchy woman who's mother delivered babies in their village and passed the secrets down to her! There was a smear campaign against MWs back when OBGYNs came to prevalence in the 50's to put people off using MWs and unfortunately it worked!

I'm bet you are glad you're here to birth Manda - I wouldnt say it generally because I wouldnt want to offend but I am so glad I am here and not in the US birth system too.

 

[Celesse]

https://www.health.sa.gov.au/PPG/Default.aspx?PageContentMode=1&tabid=76
" Unstable lie refers to the frequent changing of fetal lie and presentation in late pregnancy (usually refers to pregnancies > 37 weeks) (MacKenzie, 2006)
Lie refers to the relationship between the longitudinal axis of the fetus and that of its mother, which may be longitudinal, transverse or oblique"

So baby changes from head down, to transverse, to breach, to oblique frequently after 37 weeks. It sounds like quite an innocent condition to have, but have a read of the link above as it's actually pretty dangerous.

 

[Mervs Mum]

Thanks Celesse I think I'd be concerned about that too.

 

[Stella Blue]

Merv'sMum & Manda, I couldn't agree more with everything you both said!!

I also completely agree with and understand that there is a likelihood of complication for any birth--and that these complicatons can be extremely dangerous and even fatal to mom and/or baby....that is why, ideally, midwives and obgyns should not compete but COOPERATE and communicate. To me, that would represent the best possible physiological care for mom, and the best possible outcome for baby. (in the States, in baby's first moments, they are taken from mom, put under a bright light, cleaned, examined etc etc...when they ideally should be warm in moms arms (unless there is a clear indication otherwise...)

Also, omg, yes...it is all such a business...SCHEDULED c-sections (not emergency or even nec. high risk)and labor inductions have skyrocketed as DR.'s want to schedule a women's birth exp. around their own schedules of golf or holiday!

I remember being told that if my son wasn't born w'in 5 days of due date I would need to come in to be induced! 5 days?? C'mon! that's not even a week! sometimes a woman ovulates LATE, hello!--those frickin due dates are never precise--so please give my baby time to finish up and let my body decide when it's time!!!!!!!!!!! I decided right then (tho silently) that I would just not show up at hosp. for an induction unless it went over by maybe 10 days. luckily, he came on his own 4 days after due date!

(and I did demand the epideral, after declaring throughout my entire pregnancy that I would refuse it! No epiderals at home tho--so not even an option! I regretted that bc my first moments w him were really foggy...)

thank you so much guys. I would certainly be more than hesitant to deliver at home if there were any danger of putting baby or me at risk....(and I do live only minutes from the hospital!)

 

[Celesse]

What's all your plans for clean up and protecting the birth area?

I have:
6 Ikea shower curtains (70p each)
4 Ikea cheapie throws (£1.70 each) to go over the shower curtains.

I am also thinking of getting Incontinence bed pads! https://www.allaboutincontinence.co.uk/catalogue/detail.php?product_ID=333

 

[Mervs Mum]

I'm going to ask the MW what they bring. I've mostly read that home birth is no where near as messy as you'd think. I'm going to ask people to donate their old towels and get a couple of shower curtains. I like the cheap throw idea too

The top tip I read recently is when you start in labour, strip your bed and make it with fresh linen. Then put plastic sheets or shower curtains on it and make it again ie - put more fresh but old linen on top. Then when you're done if you've used your bed during labour or birth, you can get someone to strip the top layers and protective sheets off and 'ta-darr' the bed is ready to get straight into with your bubs

 

[HayleyJA]

That's a fab top tip about making the bed twice! In fact, I was told similar for when/if children wet the bed; put fresh linen on under the plastic sheet so if they do have an accident in the night you only have to strip down the wet bits before they jump straight back in. (Then you sort it out properly again in the morning!)

And top tip about the Ikea throws too.... just don't know if I'll have a chance to get to an Ikea before she arrives. I think I'm sorted though....

I have:
- A HUGE pile of old towels from my Mum (she was glad to clear some space in her blanket box!)
- A pack of heavy duty dust sheets from B&Q
- The floor liner for the birthpool is huge too - and stretches much further than you really need.
- A disposable tablecloth
- Dishclothes/Flannels for quick wiping up
- 2 buckets (£1 each from B&Q)
- Bin bags for dirty/wet towels/sheets
- Pack of 5 Maternity Mats from Boots (one on my bed already in case waters go and others will be used if I'm 'leaky' during labour!)

And other than that it's more practical items like cereal bars, water spray, straws etc....
Please don't anyone come up with too many great ideas as I may have to go out shopping over the next couple of days 'just in case'!

 

[Celesse]

My Gas and Air has arrived
Plus one tank of Oxygen for the baby!!

 

[MandaAnda]

DH's nan has just posted me a brand new cotton/polythene mattress protector she'd unearthed (she'd had it for when grandkids were little, in case they wet the bed, but never used it). I'm going to put it under my current fitted sheet, as you never know if my waters may go in the night.

I'm getting some old towels from my MIL on Saturday. I think that'll be my last visit down there before baby comes. Even though it's just an hour's drive away, I want to be in my home vicinity from around the time I'm due.

I've got the dust sheets from B&Q as well. I only got the medium size, as they're quite big anyway. They came in a pack of 3 for about £5.

I've not bought any "inco pads," as I had thought of this. But I'd asked my midwife, and she said they bring a big stack of them. I think I may also use an old duvet cover that I'm sick of.

How about snacks? What's everyone going to have in the house? The only thing I'm sure of at the moment is Lucozade (I found they've just brought out a cherry flavour!) and some straws to make drinking it easy. I'll also, hopefully, still have some raspberry leaf tea, which I've heard is good to continue drinking through labour (I don't think I'd be able to handle a hot drink in active labour, though). Obviously, I'll have some tea/coffee and biscuits on hand for the husband and midwives. So, what's everyone else having in for them and partner/midwives?

 

[Celesse]

Snack wise we have a bag of stuff ready for home or hospital which OH isn't allowed to touch until D-day as he is on Atkins diet (but is gonna break it for labour). We have energy drinks for OH and bottles of flavoured water for me. We have things like biscuits, go ahead flap jacks and some kettle chips.

I am also considering allowing OH to get a not to smelly takeaway very early on in the labour. Probably pizza. His suggestion was curry.... err no, the smells of curry are not gonna go nicely with labour! But pizza will be ok as he can go snack on it cold if things go on a while.

 

[purple_socks]

oh handy tip on the snacks front...apparently dark choc is a good thing and honey...if ur not in the mood for eating but really need some energy then honey is great to have a little bit of- i also found bananas really good.

and get a sports bottle/cup with a lid and bendy straw so u can drink at pretty much any angle. i had a kids mr man cup with lid and built in bendy straw (really cheap from tesco) the G&A made me really thirsty and if my cup didn't have a lid on i would have chucked it everywhere coz i was swaying around drinking

oh and coffee! really strong coffee 4 OH!

my OH nipped to the shop a couple of times 4 extra snacks mid labour....we had plenty of time! lol

 

[Mervs Mum]

Well it was a mixed bag at the MW today....

He is still breech. If he's still the same at my next appointment (34 wks) they will send me for a scan. If he's still breech they will offer me Moxibustion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moxibustion) which does have a good success rate. If that doesnt work I can have ECV which I really dont want at all If that doesnt work I can elect for a section or have a hospital / consultant vaginal birth.

He is measuring big.....5lb 8oz already.....if that's the same next appointment they will send me for a growth scan.....if he's going to be a big 'un they may suggest that the hospital is a better place for him to be born.....but that will be my call.....

If the worst case scenario happens and he stays breech and the scan confirms he's big, then it looks like a section for me

The good news is that my home birth is booked and my Mw is optimistic that he will turn and I'll get to deliver at home. They will bring a birth stool with them for me to use and the only other thing she said would be useful is a torch and plenty of towels.

She said the more babies you have the more likely breech presentation is and she said she thinks he will turn. Even if he doesnt I dont have to make a decision until 38 weeks about c sections etc.

She took directions to my house and will send my details to all the community MWs. She said that I should plan for this baby to be born at home and worry about the growth and breech presentation as we get to each hurdle. So I'm a little deflated but still a home birth hopeful.....

 

[MandaAnda]

I hope that he turns. At least your midwife is very supportive, and I think her saying to take each thing as it comes is great advice. Maybe try to read the Spinning Babies site and read about your positioning that could help turn him, and keep planning for your home birth. That way, you'll know that you've actively done what you can do to help the situation. Sending you loads of *turn, baby, turn!* dust! x

(And, OMG, I'm on the last box in my ticker!)

 

[Shifter]

Lisa - Loads of time for baby to turn yet, it's quite common for multips to stay free and in funny positions sometimes even until the onset of labour. Hypnobirthing has been shown to have good results in turning breech babies.

Also - did you know that late scans have been show to be less effective in estimating size and weight than maternal intuition? At full term (37 weeks) scans have a ~20% margin for error, which is huge considering the small weights we are talking about. If they estimate 8lb then it could be 2lbs out in EITHER direction (6-10lbs).

 

[Mervs Mum]

I dont actually mind how big or small he is I just wonder how it will affect things should he stay breech. If he does and they estimate him to be 'big' they will probably advise against a vaginal delivery. I know he's big. I know I'm bigger than I was with Hebe yet I havent put as much weight on. Another mum waiting to see the MW before me asked how long I had to go and when I told her she was I got the usual 'are you sure there's only one in there..'......yes....quite sure ta.

I am generally VERY optimistic. I cant help but feel disappointed that the appointment to book my home birth also had talk of ECV and c sections......a MILLION miles from where I want to be.