Home Birthers & Hopefuls!

[Bournefree]

The risk of infection is exactly the same.
However, when weighing up the whole situation for the baby in a nut shell is;
a preterm baby is "safer" in mum than out regardless of the infection risk (of course it needs monitoring), as there is a developmental risk. Where as term or post term developmental risk isn't there, but there is an increase in a risk of the placenta not maintaining functionality along side a risk of infection.
So that is the general reasoning.

Maybe I didn't word it right (or maybe your comment had nothing to do with mine), but I wasn't implying that the risk of infection for either gestation was different at all. I was saying that: with the risk of infection vs the risk of pre-term delivery with the 27 weeker, the pre-term delivery was the greater risk; whereas with the risk of infection vs the risk of an induced term delivery (even though, as we know, they may not be ready as we see it), the risk of infection is the greater risk.

No, no!! I think we must have posted at the same time - didn't even see yours, as we are saying the same thing, Hahahaha!

 

[MandaAnda]

Wondered as much!

 

[PeanutBean]

There seem to be some things around fore and hind waters which I confess to ignorance. When mine went they went big and my bump was small within about an hour. This was TV gushing! But I've read about others having their waters go then later getting their hind waters broken and I don't really understand...

I agree with you ladies, the risks to a very pre-term baby being delivered are many and outweigh those of internal infection. I would've thought the risk of infection to the baby would also be higher outside in the open air anyway than the smaller number and less variable types of bacteria internally occupying mum (give or take the lovely GBS).

 

[MandaAnda]

When my waters went at home (and were super green), it was apparently my hindwaters. And when they broke my forewaters (the only intervention I allowed them), it was proper gushy (and always way green) with contractions, as I merrily bounced away on my ball.

 

[PeanutBean]

I think everything of mine went. There was just so much and I had this stupid piece of membrane hanging down, tough as old boots! Once I was in the MW had to use some serious brute force to pull it away! There were no other gushes after the first lot was gone and they didn't break anything else. I wonder how these 'compartments' actually appear, physiologically...

 

[Bournefree]

Ummm - I don't know this either!
I thought there wasn't any compartments - just one big sac of amino with a baby in it. So when people were talking about fore and hind waters, I just thought, it was fluid that had managed to escape around babies head before the head plugs the cervix.. So to speak, and hind came out with baby?? I have no idea if this was right or not, it just seemed logical.

Bet we are all searching it out now!
XxX

 

[Jenniflower]

I found some interesting stuff: https://www.birthingnaturally.net/birth/challenges/prom.html

Some caregivers also have a time limit (the 24 hour rule) for how long they are comfortable for your waters to be broken without having active labor contractions. This isn't usually a problem since 70% of women with PROM will give birth within 24 hours. In fact, 90% of the women with PROM will have given birth within 48 hours. Only 2-5% will not have given birth after 72 hours, and that number remains the same even after 7 days. In those cases it is possible the PROM was misdiagnosed or the lead sealed over (however the leak sealing is the exception, not the rule).

The second challenge with PROM is that the fore waters (part of the bag of waters trapped between the baby's head and the cervix when the baby engages in the pelvis) may be broke. Clinically, there is no difference between the breaking of the firewaters or the hind waters. However, it is this fore waters that equalize the pressure on the baby's head to mold and on the cervix to open uniformly. If the fore waters are broken, you may be at a higher risk of developing a cervical lip (meaning that part of your cervix is not as dilated as the rest), and your baby may have marked molding of the head. Babies whose water has broken are more likely to respond to contractions with a dipping heart rate during active labor, possibly because of the greater pressure on their heads.

Things to discuss with your caregiver:

*

Different caregivers have different protocols for treating PROM. Some will recommend that you go to the hospital right away while others will suggest that you stay home for a while. Some caregivers feel it is important to give antibiotics within 12 hours of the waters breaking, others are comfortable waiting up to 48 hours. Be sure you understand how your caregiver expects to handle this possibility.
*

Because of the link between vaginal exams, internal monitors and cervical ripening agents to increased risk of infection, your caregiver will probably recommend as few vaginal exams as possible. You may also be limited in options for inducing or augmenting labor and for monitoring if that should become necessary.

 

[PeanutBean]

Thanks Jenni that's all really interesting. Applying it to my last labour, I had active labour contractions start right away but didn't deliver within the hospital's 18 hours. Has anyone seen anything talking about that? Everything seems to talk about if labour doesn't start. Also, interestingly, Byron's heart rate never ever dipped, not even during contractions. He was totally peaceful throughout. Obviously I wouldn't generalise based on my own experience but an interesting thought. His head is also beautiful, not even the ventouse pulled it out of shape! lol

Thanks for clarifying about the waters. I'd always thought it was one big bag too which is why I didn't understand the fore/hind stuff. How do they get to release the hind waters I wonder then...?

 

[snagglepat]

My understanding of it (as always, happy to be proven wrong/contradicted) is that the fore waters are the bit between the baby's head and the cervix, which acts like a cushion. When they go that cushion is gone and the head usually moves down to plug the gap so the waters go more as a trickle from then on. The hind waters are the rest of the waters - so that's what would have gone with you Peanut. That's the gush, cos there's lots of that.

Gina. x

ETA: Sorry, it took me a while to post that and much better explanations have gone before. Just ignore me.

However I've just read back up and realised that Peanut, you and I had the same experience, just totally different approaches. My labour started with one big contraction that broke my waters and I was getting contractions every five minutes or less immediately. Ember was born 27 hours later, at home, over the sofa with no mention of a prolonged rupture or need to transfer (until I started yelling for an epidural during transition, but that was short-lived). I have very happy memories of her birth. What a difference a simple time limit can make. I'm now even more angry on your behalf. *hugs*

 

[Bournefree]

Thanks Jenni that's all really interesting. Applying it to my last labour, I had active labour contractions start right away but didn't deliver within the hospital's 18 hours. Has anyone seen anything talking about that? Everything seems to talk about if labour doesn't start. Also, interestingly, Byron's heart rate never ever dipped, not even during contractions. He was totally peaceful throughout.

I also can't think of any reasons why you shouldn't have been advised to just keep going really, if you were contracting? I agree with Gina, as I can only see that it was some silly time restraints put on you.. (that i've never come across) Esp if there was no signs of distress (both you and Byron), and you were feeling fit and well (considering the exertion after 18 hours), so yes I'm also angered on your behalf
Did you say your current MW doesn't hold the same policy or opinon, as she's pretty supportive.
XxX

 

[PeanutBean]

Yes the contractions started right away, there was no evidence of carrying GBS (which is the only thing that relates to the 18 hours), I'd had no internals when they informed me I'd have to go in (8 hours after my waters broke). No sign of infection, nothing. By 18 hours the only issues I had were with going in. I'd been managing fine and things had appeared to be picking up about 3pm which is when the crap MW came and did the internal she shouldn't have done and everything petered off again, probably because I was only 3cm. My MW now is the same as then but I went early and she was on holiday so wasn't involved with the birth. But yes she said she can't see why it was done that way and as she think the policy is still 96 hours it certainly must've be 2 years ago.

As this story unravels I feel myself moving from a debrief to considering an actual claim against the hospital.

Sorry to keep going on and if I'm repeating myself. I'm so angry about this whole thing and more and more keeps coming to light that fuels that anger! Thank you all for your support.

 

[Bournefree]

(until I started yelling for an epidural during transition, but that was short-lived).

I was just talking to my OH about this just now!
It is brutally visceral isn't it - that is the part I'm least looking forward to!.. and it is so silly as it really only lasted about 3 mins! Get me to the good letting go, zoning out, pushing bit.. and I'd happily skip that part, any day!
I honestly believe if I didn't have the OH there, or if we didn't know what we were aiming for, I could have been packed off in the car in a flash!
And what is really bizzare, is that it had nothing to do with being in pain or discomfort.. it was a total animal need for escape. I guess if I was like that camel on human planet.. I would have moved away from everybody and found myself a quiet nest to give birth in.

Sorry - I keep coming back to that moment.. and thinking, that bit, just that bit I really don't ever want to do again! But at least OH will be there, and I will know (really know) that it is such a good birth omen.
XxX

 

[PeanutBean]

However I've just read back up and realised that Peanut, you and I had the same experience, just totally different approaches. My labour started with one big contraction that broke my waters and I was getting contractions every five minutes or less immediately. Ember was born 27 hours later, at home, over the sofa with no mention of a prolonged rupture or need to transfer (until I started yelling for an epidural during transition, but that was short-lived). I have very happy memories of her birth. What a difference a simple time limit can make. I'm now even more angry on your behalf. *hugs*

Nearly missed this. Thank you for sharing your story and I'm so glad you had a better experience. God I am just so angry it makes me cry!! Over and over! I know how I felt when they informed me of my deadline. Jeez, anyone ever tried to have a poo to schedule?! I am sure that even the awareness of that deadline contributed to my lack of progression. I was crushed to have to go in.

 

[Bournefree]

It makes total sense why you are angry. I'd ask for copies of your obstetric notes under data protection, (pay your admin fee) and be tempted to delve even deeper.
Perhaps after your beautiful baby is born?

 

[Bournefree]

My dearest darling has just made me laugh
He said guys at work have been asking where we are having our baby and he just says...

"at the homepital!"

God love him!!!
XxX

 

[PeanutBean]

It makes total sense why you are angry. I'd ask for copies of your obstetric notes under data protection, (pay your admin fee) and be tempted to delve even deeper.
Perhaps after your beautiful baby is born?

Well the notes will be coming with the consultant MW when I sort that out. I want to try and broach this issue before the birth if I can so that those ghosts are finally chased away and I get let go of it all. I have 6 weeks between finishing work and my EDD so that will be baby time. Will probably try and sort things out then. It might be a idea to get hold of my notes first but I'm sort of afraid to read them. I couldn't even look at my birth story on here for months.

 

[Bournefree]

Do you think you will be able to copy/scan them? Are you having this meeting at home?
Sorry for all the questions!
My first reaction would be to let it lay till after you have your baby - you don't know what you might feel - but I also think that your like me, and wouldn't be able to do that.. as if it was there, I'd be reading, even if it was against my better judgement, as you can't unread them.

My computer notes in Bournemouth have been deleted.. even though I was under their care untill 36 weeks.. my hand written notes stayed with me untill right after birth (which happened in Hampshire), and then I had a brief opportunity (at my own request) to read through my birth, as one of my MWs commented "so you don't sue us, we have to take them!" (it was a personal quip, as they were a little wary I would at some points during our relationship! ;-)- So my Bournemouth MW has requested my full notes come from Hampshire. As they have nothing but my word and my mw's amazing memory, on my obstetic history - so that will be an interesting read again!

So that's an aside.. but from reading it after birth; it was full detail of my obs every 10 and then 5 mins through labour to birth
The detail of your birth should be similar in your notes I imagine and I hope holds the key you are looking for, although, I suspect (just being honest), will lead you to more questions.
Xx

 

[PeanutBean]

I did go through all my notes at the time, unless there are other records kept solely at the hospital. I'm quite confident in my memory of the event too, though obviously that can't include the point of view of the health pros. I wrote my both story on here quite promptly too so that fixed a number of timings etc. It's just seeing it written really upsets me but it's totally something I need to face and I think to help me prepare for this birth.

I've not rung the consultant MW yet, been super busy today. I really don't know how the debrief works but I'm hoping it will be at home. I got the impression I can request that really. I wanted DH with me but that will be tricky and I don't think he feels confidence in his memory of everything. I'm thinking of seeing if my mum can be as she was with me for most of it, not between the epi and the birth so probably about 4-5 hours she was gone. She has always held strong opinions about the care i received from the last community MW and from those at the hospital. I had to stop her talking about it in the early days as it was too upsetting for me.

 

[Bournefree]

Inspiration..
please listen to the words..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HTGWR-ldYo&feature=related
XxX

 

[Jenniflower]

My dearest darling has just made me laugh
He said guys at work have been asking where we are having our baby and he just says...

"at the homepital!"

God love him!!!
XxX

That's too cute, hahaha. I should give that to Hubby to say. He came home the other day and asked me if it was ok he doesn't tell anyone we're having one at home. He says it's not lying because it's not like they ask where I'm giving birth they all just talk to him about what the hospital will be like and he just smile and nods. Where as I tell anyone who'll listen! haha.

You girls are making me think about my birth notes now. I would really like to have a copy of them for when I give birth again which will be in the States as we're moving this June and don't think they'll transfer very well. Do I just ask for a copy of them? Do I have a right to them?