Home schooling

[feeble]

What about the other kids who were in the class with 'the rotten lots' is their fate sealed because they are a bit slower in Maths?

Does no one else see a flaw with this system

 

[Pearls18]

What about the other kids who were in the class with 'the rotten lots' is their fate sealed because they are a bit slower in Maths?

Does no one else see a flaw with this system

I did mention that if you look at my reply where I state it was better once we were setted. I will be aiming to get Elliot in the higher sets in school, if he is behind in primary school he will have a tutor, unless he develops educational special needs he will not be leaving school with GCSEs (or whatever they have in the future!) less than a C, may be strong words but I mean every last syllable.

 

[feeble]

Better for who? The kids in the top sets who didn't have to worry about the inconvenience of the 'rotton' kids, but what about the kids who just take things a bit slower? They are in the bottom sets with the 'rotten' kids...

I know you are saying your kid will Definitely be in a top set but life doesnt work like that, what if he just doesnt get on with Maths? Regardless, I think that children should be able to learn in an environment comfortable to them regardless of their ability. Separating it out so the 'naughty kids' don't interfere with those likely to get high gcse marks is far more about the schools league scores, than the well being of the children.

 

[Pearls18]

Better for who? The kids in the top sets who didn't have to worry about the inconvenience of the 'rotton' kids, but what about the kids who just take things a bit slower? They are in the bottom sets with the 'rotten' kids...

I know you are saying your kid will Definitely be in a top set but life doesnt work like that, what if he just doesnt get on with Maths? Regardless, I think that children should be able to learn in an environment comfortable to them regardless of their ability. Separating it out so the 'naughty kids' don't interfere with those likely to get high gcse marks is far more about the schools league scores, than the well being of the children.

The 'rotten' kids as you keep quoting me for, were the little shits who didn't give a damn about school, always played up and probably had little to no encouragement from home. I don't care where they ended up or what the kids who ended up with them did quite frankly, that is the teachers and parents problem. My parents raised me to understand the importance of education and respect my teachers, therefore I was a good student, top set working along others who were similar, we of course had the odd class clown but not to the detriment of my education, and certainly not worth pulling me out of school for. I don't care about league scores I care about my son's education just as you care about your child's, I believe the setting system works and will be happy for my son to go under the same system, if it fails I will sort it out one way or another. He will get on with maths because he will be encouraged, GCSEs are incredibly simple, there is no reason to leave school without them IF you have the right encouragement. I don't understand the argument here?? I wasn't even in an argument...I was happy with my schooling, I am happy for DS to have the same, home schooling is NOT for us but it is for others, I don't see the issue with state schooling with the right encouragement from home, but if something goes wrong I won't let him stay doing what he is doing, he WILL leave school with qualifications he needs END OF.

 

[feeble]

umm... the only person being aggressive here is you, the rest of us are just having a conversation about homeschooling

I sincerely hope things go as perfectly for you as you so wish, I am not going to force my child to do something they do not want to do, nor am i blind to the idea that sometimes, with the best intentions in the world, some kids just struggle a bit with certain subjects.

I am also not comfortable with a situation where kids are just forgotten about if they are in the bottom classes, i think that shows a real disregard for people in this world who are good at practical things.

We need mechanics, carpenters, builders etc just as much as we need scientists and architects, why force a child into a life they are not comfortable with when actually all children are naturally good at different things?

i would say those 'rotten kids' as you HAVE labelled them, are actually just better at things that school doesnt cater for, or would be better off with a more hands on style of education.

Which they deserve (in my eyes)

I dont know why you are so agressive about it to be honest, but please do not allow this agressive pride to impact on your child, they have to be children and be forgiven too, even if they are a bit different from the norm x

 

[Pearls18]

umm... the only person being aggressive here is you, the rest of us are just having a conversation about homeschooling

I sincerely hope things go as perfectly for you as you so wish, I am not going to force my child to do something they do not want to do, nor am i blind to the idea that sometimes, with the best intentions in the world, some kids just struggle a bit with certain subjects.

I am also not comfortable with a situation where kids are just forgotten about if they are in the bottom classes, i think that shows a real disregard for people in this world who are good at practical things.

We need mechanics, carpenters, builders etc just as much as we need scientists and architects, why force a child into a life they are not comfortable with when actually all children are naturally good at different things?

i would say those 'rotten kids' as you HAVE labelled them, are actually just better at things that school doesnt cater for, or would be better off with a more hands on style of education.

Which they deserve (in my eyes)

I dont know why you are so agressive about it to be honest, but please do not allow this agressive pride to impact on your child, they have to be children and be forgiven too, even if they are a bit different from the norm x

Sorry I didn't mean to sound aggressive, I was being defensive, if you read my previous posts I was diplomatic and admitted my views on home schooling had altered on reading this thread.

Please don't put me down as a parent, I don't need you to tell me how to parent my child, I know every child is different and I absolutely do not think everyone is academic, I don't believe A levels are for everyone, I don't believe uni is for everyone (far fewer than those who go actually) and I believe there needs to be more emphasis on vocational studies and apprenticeships. BUT I think GCSEs are for everyone capeable, they are what are used to compare people to get an idea of their academic status- wrongly or rightly, this is a basic educational need cumlinating your achievements from the age of 5 so would absolutely do all I could to ensure Elliot leaves school with them, for his benefit not mine, it isn't about my pride but his job prospects. Hopefully, like all of mine and DH's family he'll be natural in an academic environment, I am just saying that if he isn't, like some aren't, I will not just let this go and say 'that's just Elliot' I will give him all the tutoring he needs to get out of secondary school.

I'm sorry for my disregard but my worries are directed towards Elliot, just as home schoolers are worried about their own children- they're not trying to change the schooling system? It is the teachers' job to control the disruptive children, and encourage every child whatever their acamic capability, it is the parents' job to instill in them the importance of education and respect. So long as teachers do their job, I can do mine, and for the children left behind it is their teachers and parents that need to question things, not me- the only time that is my job is if Elliot is being the disruptive one. Maybe that sounds harsh but I don't quite know what you want me to do? Show a bit more compassion? Absolutely, it is a shit world and I really wish parents would only have children if they have all the good intentions in the world, but I need to look inwardly. I was actually close to training to be a teacher, then it would be a whole different story in terms of my role.

Anyway sorry for the waffle. I really am not being aggressive, I think I can come across that way when I type but it's not what is intended. I was enjoying the conversation and was involved until you kept picking me up on my comments about a system that has never failed me (which you are obviously entitled to do!!) I just hope I have explained myself without looking too much like an opinionated pushy- mum....probably not lol.

 

[feeble]

thanks for explaining yourself Marine x

I appreciate you want the best for your son and you know what, thats brilliant, he is lucky to have a mama who gives a toss, lots of kiddies dont x

When i was at school i found myself treated like 'a naughty kid' when actually i was just alot more intelligent than a lot of the kids in my class and it was hell for me. I wasn't pushed or allowed to excel at anything and it was very, very difficult.

So its not just the kids who are not academic who struggle, its also the kids who are extra academic. Your right though, with the right care and support from my family I could have been much, much happier (in many respects actually but that is a different thread)

But it has taught me, that not all kids are suited to school.

Also i want to give you a couple of examples of friends of mine,

I have a friend called Martin who did terribly at school, he was told he was stupid and crap and that he would never amount to anything, you could practically see the teachers thinking if they should just teach him how to sign a dole card and send him on his way

he dropped out at 14, his ability to even so much as write an essay, or keep up with maths was so small and it just made him feel terrible about himself.

Anyway, i saw him a few years later (i think we were both 17) and he got all excited and told me that he had been working on something and took me into his back garden and showed me this amazing engine that he had built from bits of scrap he had got when he went with his dad to the scrap heap/tip or from the side of the road.

He now runs his own business fixing and building cars, he is AWESOME and just has this 'way' with engines. He is doing so so so so well... really fantastic

earns about 50k a year, supports his family, has a very good relationship with his accountant (lol)

Not only is he happy, comfortable and settled, he is also a completely vital part of the local community.

I have another friend called Alex, he is extremely intelligent but finds it very hard to focus on things, he can write essays til he is blue in the face and got great GCSE results, ended up doing a engineering course at Qinetiq to build plans, but got kicked off because he was a bit too eccentric and mental.

He cannot even get a driving license, not because he is not clever enough to, but because he is unable to do the theory test... its just laid out in a way that his brain cannot understand or work with

its not that he is 'stupid' or anything like that, he is incredibly intelligent but in such a way that its incompatible with the rest of the world. He has struggled to find a career, is not able to set his mind to any job and finds life really difficult... Yet he has GCSES and Martin has none.

So i suppose i just want you to see that though some people find it better to work with their hands, and despite the best intentions of themselves, their parents or the school cannot fit into the 'school mould' they can still be happy and content and get by in life

I hope everything goes beautifully for you and your son i really do, i am sure he will be magnificent and you will love him whatever he does, but if he wants to be a mechanic or a painter decorator, dont forget that we need people like that in the world too hey, and they dont necessarily need to be great academically, they just need love and support for being them x

 

[Pearls18]

Absolutely totally agree with you. I'm not from a family of graduates, only my brother and I went to university, my mum left school with barely any O levels but is a bank manager, my dad was the same (also not encouraged told he was stupid etc) and he has been a postman for nearly 30 years and loves his job, my DH left school after GCSEs did some vocational stuff but ended up in the military where he is excelling. I guess because I came from a family that wasn't pushed academically...but then they pushed me that way, I want the same for Elliot if you get me?? (not university but to do well in school, because if you do well you're more likely to enjoy it and your school years can be fantastic if you enjoy them) I absolutely do not care what he does when he's older in terms of snobbery, I think something more vocational will be safer in these days! I just want him to work to his potential in school and leave with qualifications so life isn't too hard if you get me?? And be happy most of all of course lol!!!!!

I'm really glad your friends are doing well, every child needs to be taught differently as well which is where schooling can be a problem (and where home school can be a huge help I guess because parents will know how to get the best out of their children) I guess I have come from a very sheletered existance and because everything worked well for me I am ignorant to the flaws. I really admire parents who dedicate themselves to teach their children, it's such a huge undertaking and I have to admit I would doubt my ability and would be scared of doing it wrong!! I volunteer at a youth club and there's 2 kids who go who are home schooled and then girl is the most mature, relaxed teenager I have met and has no issues talking to anyone so I absolutely understand there are huge benefits.

 

[OnErth&InHvn]

I stink at math. I cant do double digit addition, let alone much else. I cant subtract unless i use my fingers and dont ask me what 8x6 is. I have been this way since gradeschool. My parents at first tried tutors, "special ed" math classes, even pulling me back in math. I just wasnt getting it. No my parents didnt sit down with me at the table and work with me and no they didnt help with homework. Thats NOT why i stink at math though. I stink at math because i wasnt taught in a way that benefited me. I am VERY VERY VERY visual and hands on for math. Public Schools/Teachers dont have time to work with me to learn when the other 29 students get the same math problems in 1/2 the time and they can move on.

Thats not to argue with you marineWAG, thats an example of how encouragement from parents/teachers did not make a difference. I stink at math no matter what. I did have encouragement from the tutors and Special teachers but they didnt use the right methods so i still wasnt getting it.

Now i am using that same thing for DD1. She is very visual as well and at first i tried a workbook Math curriculum for her and she REALLY struggled. Now we use a visual/hands on math curriculum and we are both happy!

 

[Pearls18]

I stink at math. I cant do double digit addition, let alone much else. I cant subtract unless i use my fingers and dont ask me what 8x6 is. I have been this way since gradeschool. My parents at first tried tutors, "special ed" math classes, even pulling me back in math. I just wasnt getting it. No my parents didnt sit down with me at the table and work with me and no they didnt help with homework. Thats NOT why i stink at math though. I stink at math because i wasnt taught in a way that benefited me. I am VERY VERY VERY visual and hands on for math. Public Schools/Teachers dont have time to work with me to learn when the other 29 students get the same math problems in 1/2 the time and they can move on.

Thats not to argue with you marineWAG, thats an example of how encouragement from parents/teachers did not make a difference. I stink at math no matter what. I did have encouragement from the tutors and Special teachers but they didnt use the right methods so i still wasnt getting it.

Now i am using that same thing for DD1. She is very visual as well and at first i tried a workbook Math curriculum for her and she REALLY struggled. Now we use a visual/hands on math curriculum and we are both happy!

I'm glad you found something that works for you both. I totally understand every child learns differently, what I mean by encouragement is that I will do what I need to do to get him through his exams and if that means looking at alterior methods to get him through like how you say so be it. School is our default but if it doesn't work for us I am open minded to other options but admit home schooling would be a last resort for personal reasons. There is a way for every child to learn, it's just finding it!

It's just a shame not all parents are so concerned about their child's education like we all are on this thread, home schooling or not it shows we have all thought about their education.

 

[feeble]

The point i was making Marine, was that my friend with GCSES is struggling massively with life and achievement, whilst my friend without is doing really well...

So its important that we understand that those who work with their hands or are talented at one thing (like Martin is with engines) are just as valuable and need those skills to be honed etc so they make the best of themselves (rather than the best of what someone else wants them to be)

Also, there are actual issues with brain function (like dyspraxia, dyslexia etc) that will prevent a child from being able to complete 'a GCSE' but they might be good in other ways.

So I think (personally) its best to find out about our kids and what THEY need rather than instantly trying to fit them into a box. If J is good with exams and study then of course he can do GCSES, but I am not blind to the idea that getting GCSES are not the only important thing in life (or childhood)

 

[Pearls18]

The point i was making Marine, was that my friend with GCSES is struggling massively with life and achievement, whilst my friend without is doing really well...

So its important that we understand that those who work with their hands or are talented at one thing (like Martin is with engines) are just as valuable and need those skills to be honed etc so they make the best of themselves (rather than the best of what someone else wants them to be)

Also, there are actual issues with brain function (like dyspraxia, dyslexia etc) that will prevent a child from being able to complete 'a GCSE' but they might be good in other ways.

So I think (personally) its best to find out about our kids and what THEY need rather than instantly trying to fit them into a box. If J is good with exams and study then of course he can do GCSES, but I am not blind to the idea that getting GCSES are not the only important thing in life (or childhood)

No I do get that, having learning difficulties are a different matter as I have said that would have to be approached in a whole different matter, my point is if he is mentally capable he will not leave school without GCSEs I'm not niave to the fact that these are not the be all and end all, but as a parent it is the least I can do, once he has left school it is down to him to choose his own path and motivate himself (with some motherly encouragement still of course!) But also I think the majority of kids will do well in mainstream school (I'm sure they could do better at home but it isn't an option for a lot of families, I need to work) the curriculum is designed to fit the majority so I will assume he will be fine in school UNTIL we experience otherwise, then I am open minded. That is my point. Why assume something will go wrong until it does? We don't have learning difficulties in our family so I am not expecting them, so will deal with it IF it comes up.

 

[EllaAndLyla]

I'd love to home educate for many reasons, I'd also like her to go to school for many reasons. As someone who was severely bullied at both primary and secondary school I definately worry a lot whether my innocent baby will be a target. I also believe that children at school need stimulation in the classroom and have a variety, which I felt ( I left school 3 years ago ) there wasn't enough of. But I think a child needs to socialise with others and gain 'independance skills' from being away from home. I believe the schooling system ruined me. I was never listened to, I was 11 and in maths was in the top group (we got placed due to our sats grades in primary school) I didn't know anything like what these teachers were teaching. I told the teacher over a number of weeks how I was struggling and needed a little push, I even wrote notes in my books begging her to understand. Instead of speaking to me about it she automatically moved me to the lowest group in maths (there was 5 groups altogether). This killed my confidence, I thought that the teachers didn't think I could work, from then on I lost confidence in most subjects, found myself going down to lower groups in lots of subjects and eventually started acting out, getting in trouble, skipping school. I truly believe if someone had just listened to me and explained the work to me in a way I could understand I would have gotten the A* I was predicted rather than the D. It wasn't until I was nearly 16 that I found my confidence again, there was 5 teachers (4 taught me, 1 was more of a 'shoulder to cry on') and they brought me back up, but by then it was too late for me to re-learn everything.

I don't think this is a common thing to happen in public schools, I was a one off and the bullying didn't help either. I'm very 50/50 about what to do with my children xx

 

[EllaAndLyla]

Better for who? The kids in the top sets who didn't have to worry about the inconvenience of the 'rotton' kids, but what about the kids who just take things a bit slower? They are in the bottom sets with the 'rotten' kids...

I know you are saying your kid will Definitely be in a top set but life doesnt work like that, what if he just doesnt get on with Maths? Regardless, I think that children should be able to learn in an environment comfortable to them regardless of their ability. Separating it out so the 'naughty kids' don't interfere with those likely to get high gcse marks is far more about the schools league scores, than the well being of the children.

The 'rotten' kids as you keep quoting me for, were the little shits who didn't give a damn about school, always played up and probably had little to no encouragement from home. I don't care where they ended up or what the kids who ended up with them did quite frankly, that is the teachers and parents problem. My parents raised me to understand the importance of education and respect my teachers, therefore I was a good student, top set working along others who were similar, we of course had the odd class clown but not to the detriment of my education, and certainly not worth pulling me out of school for. I don't care about league scores I care about my son's education just as you care about your child's, I believe the setting system works and will be happy for my son to go under the same system, if it fails I will sort it out one way or another. He will get on with maths because he will be encouraged, GCSEs are incredibly simple, there is no reason to leave school without them IF you have the right encouragement. I don't understand the argument here?? I wasn't even in an argument...I was happy with my schooling, I am happy for DS to have the same, home schooling is NOT for us but it is for others, I don't see the issue with state schooling with the right encouragement from home, but if something goes wrong I won't let him stay doing what he is doing, he WILL leave school with qualifications he needs END OF.

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree. I was a 'little shit' but I loved school, I loved learning and I had lots of encouragement from home!! The reason I was a 'little shit' was because of the lack in confidence my school had given me! I was moved down from the top groups to the bottom because I was struggling and was having no help from any teachers! I was chucked into a classroom with the 'rotten kids' (most of the feeling the same as me). Because I had been neglected and teachers ignored my cries for help via notes, after school chats etc, my whole personality changed. I thought no one liked me, people thought I was an idiot and didn't want to teach me - If they didn't want to teach me then why should I stay in the class and listen, so I acted out. It was a cry for help but because my reputation got worse I was branded as a little shit and treated like one. I know its my own fault but because of everything that affected me at school (bullying, lack of confidence, no self esteem) its just what happened.

I'm not having a go, just saying that not all 'the little shits' were once like that, or even wanted to be but when your 12 years old and you feel that low then sometimes it just happens To sum that up, it doesn't always matter what your home life and encouragement from parents was like, for me and many others it was the schooling system.

 

[indy and lara]

Anyone who works in education and thinks of children as 'little shits' has no place in the job. I love working with challenging kids, whether that is academically or behaviourally challenged kids. You should never give up on a child.

 

[OnErth&InHvn]

I'd love to home educate for many reasons, I'd also like her to go to school for many reasons. As someone who was severely bullied at both primary and secondary school I definately worry a lot whether my innocent baby will be a target. I also believe that children at school need stimulation in the classroom and have a variety, which I felt ( I left school 3 years ago ) there wasn't enough of. But I think a child needs to socialise with others and gain 'independance skills' from being away from home. I believe the schooling system ruined me. I was never listened to, I was 11 and in maths was in the top group (we got placed due to our sats grades in primary school) I didn't know anything like what these teachers were teaching. I told the teacher over a number of weeks how I was struggling and needed a little push, I even wrote notes in my books begging her to understand. Instead of speaking to me about it she automatically moved me to the lowest group in maths (there was 5 groups altogether). This killed my confidence, I thought that the teachers didn't think I could work, from then on I lost confidence in most subjects, found myself going down to lower groups in lots of subjects and eventually started acting out, getting in trouble, skipping school. I truly believe if someone had just listened to me and explained the work to me in a way I could understand I would have gotten the A* I was predicted rather than the D. It wasn't until I was nearly 16 that I found my confidence again, there was 5 teachers (4 taught me, 1 was more of a 'shoulder to cry on') and they brought me back up, but by then it was too late for me to re-learn everything.

I don't think this is a common thing to happen in public schools, I was a one off and the bullying didn't help either. I'm very 50/50 about what to do with my children xx

Kids can learn to socialize and have independent skills if they are homeschooled too. We arent hermit crabs.

 

[Pearls18]

The 'little shits' I am referring to were the vile boys who were in my form group that I knew from primary school, know their background and know what they are up to now (which says a lot about them)....I am not talking about anybody else, a select few who I was glad to be seperated from- the ones half of this thread seem happy to seperate their children from doing home schooling. If you are having a dig at me Indy and Lara because I mentioned I wanted to be a teacher you can keep your opinions to yourself, I volunteer in a Youth Club weekly and deal with troubled teenagers who I care deeply for and do all I can in the little time I see them in the week, voluntarily (after working full time in a completely different sector I will add)- so if you want to keep people like me from environments like this who keep youth services alive in small communities with small budgets you would see a stark difference in the behaviour of some children in school I can assure you.

I am leaving this thread now, unsubscribing and won't look again. I don't quite know why I am being attacked, I feel like because I didn't say 'Oh yeah wow home schooling what an amazing idea I wish I could do it- omg maybe I will' nothing I say matters. Especially when Feeble you eventually understood what I was saying even if you didn't agree? But whatever, you do what you will with your children, I'll do what I need to for mine- just because I am not home schooling does not mean I love them less. It is not appropriate for us, it would be a last resort.

 

[feeble]

Marine, NOBODY is attacking you...

I dont know why you feel that way, we have made it clear we have no intention of 'forcing' you to homeschool and we dont mind that you dont want to do that...

I think you are mistaking peoples difference of opinion regarding school as some sort of personal attack and thats not what it is at all!

 

[indy and lara]

The 'little shits' I am referring to were the vile boys who were in my form group that I knew from primary school, know their background and know what they are up to now (which says a lot about them)....I am not talking about anybody else, a select few who I was glad to be seperated from- the ones half of this thread seem happy to seperate their children from doing home schooling. If you are having a dig at me Indy and Lara because I mentioned I wanted to be a teacher you can keep your opinions to yourself, I volunteer in a Youth Club weekly and deal with troubled teenagers who I care deeply for and do all I can in the little time I see them in the week, voluntarily (after working full time in a completely different sector I will add)- so if you want to keep people like me from environments like this who keep youth services alive in small communities with small budgets you would see a stark difference in the behaviour of some children in school I can assure you.

I am leaving this thread now, unsubscribing and won't look again. I don't quite know why I am being attacked, I feel like because I didn't say 'Oh yeah wow home schooling what an amazing idea I wish I could do it- omg maybe I will' nothing I say matters. Especially when Feeble you eventually understood what I was saying even if you didn't agree? But whatever, you do what you will with your children, I'll do what I need to for mine- just because I am not home schooling does not mean I love them less. It is not appropriate for us, it would be a last resort.

Oh my giddy aunt, this is a bit of an overreaction. Actually a pretty huge one. Firstly I am a teacher and was talking about the fact that I believe that anyone in education who calls kids 'little shits' or rights them off has no place in the system. I have heard it all in the many years I have been teaching- little shits, thickos, bad lads, the bad kids, you name it and these sort of labels make my blood boil. A common thread in all education threads is the fact that there are naughty kids who cause all the problems for everyone else but they are as entitled to an education too.

That is my opinion and I will not keep it to myself. I have not been stalking your posts and quite frankly have no idea what you do or wish to do with your life. Had I been attacking you I would have said it outright, not resorted to some kind of disguised sly dig.

 

[feeble]

Indy! It's 'writes them off' not 'rights them off'

Tutt tutt!!


*disclaimer* this is meant in jest, I feel this slight slip has no bearing on Indys opinions and I would not have corrected her had she not been a teacher I realise my own grammar leaves much to be desired and I am simply being a naughty pedant *disclaimer*