Hospital vs home birth?

[lozzy21]

Ladies-- when someone says "having a healthy baby is what matters", there's no need to fight that-- they aren't saying YOU are doing something wrong by preferring to control your birthing experience. They are saying no matter what method you choose, if we all end up with healthy babies in the end, then we did it right. Meaning... your choice is your choice and that's ok. Meaning... we all want healthy babies. Meaning... in the end our main goal is to have LO here safe and sound.
Why do we need to fight a comment that simply says we want healthy babies? Of course we do. Homebirthers do, hospital birthers do, elective c-sectioners do, elective inductioners do, haven't made up their minders do....
Let's not nitpick. No one was using the healthy baby statement to somehow shoot down homebirthers.

It is what matters, but its not all that matters.

 

[JackiePed]

In CosmicGirl's defense, she may have specified 'assisted hb' because someone on an earlier page who was defending hb made a distinction between assisted and unassisted and implied that when most of the people in defense of hb are speaking on this thread, they are referring to 'assisted' (though I see there are a few later in the thread who are preferring unassisted as well).... she may have just been trying to get her terms 'correct', since this thread is getting quite particular about terminology and such.
... backfired anyways....

 

[cosmicgirlxxx]

It does creep up on you, I still get really emotional about it now, suffer panic attacks and anxiety, it's not nice

 

[JackiePed]

Ladies-- when someone says "having a healthy baby is what matters", there's no need to fight that-- they aren't saying YOU are doing something wrong by preferring to control your birthing experience. They are saying no matter what method you choose, if we all end up with healthy babies in the end, then we did it right. Meaning... your choice is your choice and that's ok. Meaning... we all want healthy babies. Meaning... in the end our main goal is to have LO here safe and sound.
Why do we need to fight a comment that simply says we want healthy babies? Of course we do. Homebirthers do, hospital birthers do, elective c-sectioners do, elective inductioners do, haven't made up their minders do....
Let's not nitpick. No one was using the healthy baby statement to somehow shoot down homebirthers.

It is what matters, but its not all that matters.

Lozzy...that's fine. But can you see why she didn't need to be jumped on? And truly, to take it one step further... for some of us, that IS all that matters. So let us feel that way...and don't take it as a personal affront.

When I got married, I could have cared less about the details of the wedding. I wished someone would have just planned it all for me and all I had to do was show up and marry the man I loved... because all that mattered to me was that I was going to be his wife by the end of the night. Flowers, cake, timing, dresses... it was all very unimportant to me. I didn't really care about how I got there-- I just wanted to celebrate with my family and walk away married for eternity.
For some of us, with birth, we aren't as concerned with the experience...and for some of us, we ARE concerned with experience... but what we all have in common is wanting a healthy LO. why is it bad that she said that? I really do think we are getting picky here. Even when someone tries to diffuse it and make a peaceful statement, it turns into a throwdown.

 

[aliss]

I'll be blunt - to say a healthy baby is all that matters, simply invalidates the pain that some women go through. It's why many women don't seek help, because the first thing someone says to them is "oh, a healthy baby is all that matters". Well, it doesn't. And I would have said the same thing to a woman before I went through what I did. I've been robbed at knifepoint and I've been sexually assaulted. Neither experience was as traumatizing or violating as the labour of my son. And I hope none of you never have to experience why some of us say that a healthy baby isn't all that matters. It's outright insulting.

Anyways, I should probably leave this thread, I'm near on tears right now, yet another validation of why I don't seek further help for my PTSD after labour because as they always say... "a healthy baby is all that matters...", I think it's best for me to just leave BnB, I've heard it enough that it's just a knife in me.

 

[JackiePed]

Hun, no one is invalidating your experience or the effects of it. And I don't think most people on here can possibly see the connection between trying to make a peaceful statement about wanting healthy babies. The posters who said that were trying to weave a common thread, so that we all knew that regardless of our choices for birth, we are doing it for our babies. Isn't that right? Aren't you choosing homebirth because you believe with all your heart that it is the best thing for your baby? The posters who commented on everyone wanting healthy babies were simply trying to say "We all have something in common. We are all loving mommies who want healthy babies."

I can see that the aftereffects of your birth with your son are lingering. Therefore, I would not challenge you on why you choose a homebirth. But nobody is saying that you shouldn't feel badly from a bad experience, or that you shouldn't have experienced the emotional trauma.
I feel like you're getting the sense that by people saying "A healthy baby is what matters in the end", that they are telling you to 'get over it'... which nobody on here is saying.
Try and remember that we actually don't know your story aside from a brief description, so though it may hit a nerve for you, nobody could possibly have been directing it at your PTSD or anything else.

I don't think anyone on here would be that insensitive, or would feel that harshly toward a woman who went through what you did.

 

[indy and lara]

Aliss I am so sorry that you have had an experience that has impacted on you so negatively. Please do seek out help as your experiences are clearly impacting on your life. You shouldn't have to live with this pain.

All I was trying to do was explain why I feel like I do. Having to arrange my son's funeral after a textbook birth means that the notion of a 'perfect' birth is not one I can see as being so important. Taking a healthy baby home is the only thing that does matter to me.

EDIT- just read the thread above and agree with all JackiePed is saying.

 

[lozzy21]

Ladies-- when someone says "having a healthy baby is what matters", there's no need to fight that-- they aren't saying YOU are doing something wrong by preferring to control your birthing experience. They are saying no matter what method you choose, if we all end up with healthy babies in the end, then we did it right. Meaning... your choice is your choice and that's ok. Meaning... we all want healthy babies. Meaning... in the end our main goal is to have LO here safe and sound.
Why do we need to fight a comment that simply says we want healthy babies? Of course we do. Homebirthers do, hospital birthers do, elective c-sectioners do, elective inductioners do, haven't made up their minders do....
Let's not nitpick. No one was using the healthy baby statement to somehow shoot down homebirthers.

It is what matters, but its not all that matters.

Lozzy...that's fine. But can you see why she didn't need to be jumped on? And truly, to take it one step further... for some of us, that IS all that matters. So let us feel that way...and don't take it as a personal affront.

When I got married, I could have cared less about the details of the wedding. I wished someone would have just planned it all for me and all I had to do was show up and marry the man I loved... because all that mattered to me was that I was going to be his wife by the end of the night. Flowers, cake, timing, dresses... it was all very unimportant to me. I didn't really care about how I got there-- I just wanted to celebrate with my family and walk away married for eternity.
For some of us, with birth, we aren't as concerned with the experience...and for some of us, we ARE concerned with experience... but what we all have in common is wanting a healthy LO. why is it bad that she said that? I really do think we are getting picky here. Even when someone tries to diffuse it and make a peaceful statement, it turns into a throwdown.

I dont see where i jumped on any one. You would never say to some one in the armed forces who developed PTSD after 6 months in Iraq or Afghanistan "oh well at least you came home alive" You just wouldn't say it, so why is it ok to say to a woman who has developed PTSD after basicly being assaulted and her baby nearly dying because some doctor or midwife decided to intervene unnecissarly. I dident think i was concerned with the experience untill i was told i had 5 mins to get her out or i would be taken for a crash section and then had 3 people pinning me into the most uncomfortable position ever and a doctor practicly pulling her out as she had got her shoulder stuck. Having her rushed over to the resusitare were a team of doctors and nurses waiting and not knowing if she was ok for what seemed like a eternity, i dident even know if she was a girl or a boy for 11 mins.

If your not bothered by your experience then fine but dont expect every one to be like that when we already know it does matter.

Saying that baby getting hear safely is ALL that matters is basicly saying we are ungrateful for having our babys here, which we are so greatfull for since we know we nearly lost them.

 

[Sherileigh]

I'd like to state again if all of this is about me what I actually said was 'if women are HAPPY WITH THEIR CHOICE and have a healthy baby'.

 

[Nikki_d72]

I think this blog explains the "healthy baby line" and why it can have such a negative effect on those of us who have had traumatic birth experiences. It is about c-section, but most of it applies to any woman who feels this way about her birth : https://birthingbeautifulideas.com/?p=142

Have a read and you may see where Aliss and others are coming from. it was a line that I even said to myself a lot, but in the end made me feel worse. It's a pretty complex issue. Some women will be traumatised by things others will not, too - it's all about the perception of the mother - something Peanutbean spoke about in a post way back. I know it's something that is said with kindly meaning, not in a "get over it" sense, but it really does still sting. Anyway, the blog says it better than I can, it's not too long, go have a quick read if you've got a minute and you may realise why those wee few words can cut.

Cheers!

P.S when is this thread ever going to stop? I've not done any housework for about three days now, it's taken over my life!

 

[cosmicgirlxxx]

I really hope all this "healthy baby" debating is not about my comments! My point was that hb or hospital we all share a unity in which we make choices to aim for a safe and healthy delivery. A point that seems to be lost within all of the bickering. It's a shame, because I believe that as women that is the one thing that we all share the same opinion about and thought my point could take this thread in a nicer direction, never mind. As someone who has experienced from one of the most horrific and life threatening deliveries I really don't need to be told about the impact of a traumatic delivery - I suffer that impact daily!

 

[cosmicgirlxxx]

Apologies if not aimed at me btw

 

[JackiePed]

CosmicGirl/Sherileigh, I've tried, too, to point out that your remark about healthy LOs was meant as a unifying comment, and not a way of telling people they should just be grateful for their healthy babies... But it's not working. This isn't going anywhere.... Let's all just trust that everyone's coming from a very personal place and never intended any hurt feelings.

 

[Pixie2320]

CosmicGirl/Sherileigh, I've tried, too, to point out that your remark about healthy LOs was meant as a unifying comment, and not a way of telling people they should just be grateful for their healthy babies... But it's not working. This isn't going anywhere.... Let's all just trust that everyone's coming from a very personal place and never intended any hurt feelings.

Some people can make anything a personal attack I think its been made clear so many times what the orig comment was meant about at this point its just about attention

 

[Blah11]

I don't think she's made anything out to be a personal attack. I'm sure she wouldn't have been sat in tears over nothing I think the comment wasn't that nice or well thought out. Its not like she wanted a girl but got a boy. She's been left with obvious PTSD from a terrible birth when that should be the one moment in her life she cherishes forever

 

[PeanutBean]

Sorry not to have replied. I inadvertently unsubscribed.

My apologies to prolonging this particular aspect of the debate but I need to make some points.

Whether the intention of the "all that matters" comment was meant to diffuse or unify or whatever doesn't really change the fact that this is a comment thrown repeatedly at women who have bad a traumatic birth. As aliss has explained it is hugely undermining and I'm sorry but it's thoughtless and insensitive however it was meant. The negative feelings inside a woman feeling after such a birth can be so deep seated and immense. No not every woman feels the same but it would help if this blanket thoughtless response never left anyone's lips ever again as a matter of course! Yes of course we want healthy babies but it's not all that matters and I said in my first response to this a mother who has been through such a birth may not be able to bond, breastfeed, even care for the baby for a variety of reasons. It's not just an immediate physical trauma, it has a long-lasting impact on both mother and baby. (And no not everyone cares but many many do.)

I didn't say that (I also have suffered pnd 3 times and have been on anti depressants for 4 years), what I said was if intervention is needed and we perhaps don't get the delivery we would have liked can we not find comfort in the fact that we did everything in our powers and made the choices that we thought were right to ensure a safe or safe as possible delivery? What I'm saying is hb or hospital birth, we make our choices and all we want is a safe delivery.

I've quoted you here for the point about making choices. This takes us right back to the original issue about being informed and the reasons women choose homebirth. In a great many cases we don't make our choices, the medics make them for us and don't always make the right ones because they think all that matters is a healthy baby. So what if they baby could've come vaginally rather than by section? So what if the labour would naturally progress if we left her alone to get on with it? We can better control the situation doing it the medical way...

Big to indy, aliss and the others who have had loss and difficulty in birth.

 

[JackiePed]

I know this is a very, very dead horse, but I feel like in these arguments, whoever brings up the biggest emotional bomb suddenly 'wins' because nobody wants to be called insensitive. That's not fair, especially in this situation when nobody was being insensitive, not even accidentally.

Peanut, I think the point that you made is one that anyone following this thread does understand, and does agree with. The context in which someone says "All that matters is a healthy baby" is the difference here. Nobody said that to a poster who was upset about a traumatic birth. Nobody told any of the women on here, "Sorry you had a traumatic birth but all that matters is you got a healthy baby out of it."
Nobody said that, or implied it. At all.

It was said in a completely different context... saying "If you choose homebirth, and I choose hospital birth, that's ok for each of us because we all have the same goal in mind."
And if someone is insensitive for saying we ALL have something in common because we are loving mothers who want healthy babies... then honestly what can we say...? If it causes someone that much upset simply because the phrase "all that matters is a healthy baby" is used, then perhaps a forum isn't the place for them to be spending their time until they are ready, as that phrase can be used in SO many different contexts.

I would completely understand the upset if someone had been insensitive enough to say or imply that women who are upset about their birth experience should just suck it up since they got healthy babies. I would totally get it. But nobody did.

 

[t33cup]

home birth for me, water birth to be exact. avoiding any argument here I want a peaceful calm and controlled environment with the best and more skilled mw's = home birth in my area.

 

[PeanutBean]

So forums shouldn't be for women who need support? I'm sure that can't be what you mean...

As far as I am concerned, and I think I said this above, it is a phrase that should be wiped out of conversation altogether. Doesn't matter how it was meant. On here and in life people interpret things in their own way. There are far better ways of putting it, if unity is the aim, as you yourself have so eloquently demonstrated. Some things are not acceptable in polite society and I think that phrase should be one of them.

 

[JackiePed]

Clearly that's not what I meant, but I'm pretty sure you already know that.
I meant forums may not be the best place for people who get upset easily about specific phrases, regardless of context, despite it being explained and any misunderstanding apologized for-- as within an internet forum the same phrase or word can be used with many, many different meanings.

In this case, it was meant in a very positive way and people are twisting it and making the posters who were just trying to be cheery feel like obtuse jerks.