Infant feeding questions

[Dopeyjopey]

Here are my thoughts:

We can all discuss things openly, maybe a little too much sometimes and tact can fall by the wayside.

I don't feel like there is a 'them and us' culture. On the threads were it appears that way I find it has gone like this... one person makes a statement that is maybe a little offhand or slightly tactless. One person will challenge the statement and others will then back them up. Other people then defend the first person and the camp is split in two. It is not always the same people on the same 'team', however there may be a few people that feel there are. Queue the 'high horse' type comments and then eventually everyone calms down and starts talking about kittens

I don't think BFers do try and change other peoples' minds. Most of the time it is simply someone giving advice based on their own personal experience. Sometimes it can sound 'preachy' but I think that is more because of the NHS ramming it down everyone's throats instead of it being viewed as the norm.

FFers I think often jump on the defensive because they feel judged, whether they are or not. It can be upsetting for someone who couldn't BF but people should be encouraged to feel good about FFing as it is keeping their child alive, FF kids are no different to BF ones in the majority of cases and it was the best thing in their circumstances.

I do feel a lot of questions are asked in the wrong section and there are just too many differing opinions for it to go smoothly. I know you may get less responses in one of the specific sections but generally the few answers you do get are much more productive

 

[happigail]

You know what ... before i came onto this forum i never even knew this arguement existed, and i can hand on heart say that ive never seen this arguement IRL!! Funny that?

I couldnt care less how anyone feeds their baby as long as they are fed, ive got my own family to worry about nevermind anyone elses

The more I read your posts the more I like (and relate) to you!

 

[RainbowDrop_x]

1/Why is it that when it comes to the way we feed our babies we can't all talk happily?
Because no-one likes to be told that their choice/way of parenting is not the "right" way (for want of better wording)

2/WHy is it always a 'them' and 'us' situation?
I don't feel it is a them an us situation..I think 9 times out of 10 a BFer/FFer will say something and then a BFer/FFer will respond with an unneeded arrogance/manor and then what could be a potentially good thread becomes divided.

3/Why do you think some BF mums try and change peoples minds?
I'm a FFer..But regardless of that I (personally) KNOW "breast is best".. I tried BFing but sadly it didn't work out for me. I (again personally) would always encourage people to BF but I wouldn't try to change someone's mind as such..BFing isn't for everyone, the same with FFing..But what's best for mum is best for baby.. When I couldn't BF I didn't want to FF but having said that I had to feed my LO..It was formula or nothing and it took a while but I learned to accept that... It would be the same if law was to BF and someone didn't want to though

4/Why do you think some FF mums find this offensive?
I suppose some take the view that BFing mums make the insinuation that FF is inferior. IMO there is a difference between advising someone and ramming it down their throat..I'll probably get shot down for that but that's just how it goes.
No one likes to be told that their not doing what is "best" for their child

 

[annawrigley]

1/Why is it that when it comes to the way we feed our babies we can't all talk happily?
Because no-one likes to be told that their choice/way of parenting is not the "right" way (for want of better wording)

2/WHy is it always a 'them' and 'us' situation?
I don't feel it is a them an us situation..I think 9 times out of 10 a BFer/FFer will say something and then a BFer/FFer will respond with an unneeded arrogance/manor and then what could be a potentially good thread becomes divided.

3/Why do you think some BF mums try and change peoples minds?
I'm a FFer..But regardless of that I (personally) KNOW "breast is best".. I tried BFing but sadly it didn't work out for me. I (again personally) would always encourage people to BF but I wouldn't try to change someone's mind as such..BFing isn't for everyone, the same with FFing..But what's best for mum is best for baby.. When I couldn't BF I didn't want to FF but having said that I had to feed my LO..It was formula or nothing and it took a while but I learned to accept that... It would be the same if law was to BF and someone didn't want to though

4/Why do you think some FF mums find this offensive?
I suppose some take the view that BFing mums make the insinuation that FF is inferior. IMO there is a difference between advising someone and ramming it down their throat..I'll probably get shot down for that but that's just how it goes.
No one likes to be told that their not doing what is "best" for their child

I thought your sig said "the way she says I love you mummy" then... I thought wow advanced 7 month old!

 

[jojo_b]

1/Why is it that when it comes to the way we feed our babies we can't all talk happily?
Because no-one likes to be told that their choice/way of parenting is not the "right" way (for want of better wording)

2/WHy is it always a 'them' and 'us' situation?
I don't feel it is a them an us situation..I think 9 times out of 10 a BFer/FFer will say something and then a BFer/FFer will respond with an unneeded arrogance/manor and then what could be a potentially good thread becomes divided.

3/Why do you think some BF mums try and change peoples minds?
I'm a FFer..But regardless of that I (personally) KNOW "breast is best".. I tried BFing but sadly it didn't work out for me. I (again personally) would always encourage people to BF but I wouldn't try to change someone's mind as such..BFing isn't for everyone, the same with FFing..But what's best for mum is best for baby.. When I couldn't BF I didn't want to FF but having said that I had to feed my LO..It was formula or nothing and it took a while but I learned to accept that... It would be the same if law was to BF and someone didn't want to though

4/Why do you think some FF mums find this offensive?
I suppose some take the view that BFing mums make the insinuation that FF is inferior. IMO there is a difference between advising someone and ramming it down their throat..I'll probably get shot down for that but that's just how it goes.
No one likes to be told that their not doing what is "best" for their child

I thought your sig said "the way she says I love you mummy" then... I thought wow advanced 7 month old!

now THAT ^^ would be a good advert for formula feeding!

 

[Laura2919]

I suppose because some people are passionate about BF and FF. People have different reasons for doing either BF or FF.
I dont personally care what you choose to give your child as long as said child is happy. Breast is best only if mother and baby are happy so for some women BF doesnt work and they arent happy with it or baby isnt happy so they switch.
As for someone saying they dont get the whole BF and FF together I did this for my girls. They were born at 29 weeks and I was in intensive care at one hospital and they were in a neonatal unit at another hospital over 70 miles away from me.. They had breastmilk but I found it really hard to produce the milk because I didnt have a baby to look at whilst doing it because my babies didnt meet me until they were 5 days old, I found it hard and had very little help from anyone at the hospital even asking for it more than once. So I wouldnt judge a book by its cover. My girls were FF and given expressed milk for 8 days, I had managed (My girls were fed 1ml every hr) to get myself a build up of expressed milk for my girls in the freezer and when they were transferred to a hospital near me the idiot nurse that brought Chloe up forgot my milk and put me under extreme pressure to get more so I made the decision to switch them to formula. They took to this really well and they were on it until 12 months. I was happy, they were happy and to me thats all that matters. If women want to BF thats great, its their choice. But women who want to FF shouldnt be looked down on or shouldnt be pressured into doing it because breast is best because in my opinion breast is best isnt always the case...

 

[TattiesMum]

p.s. i don't understand this "guilt" or "insecurity" when it comes to FF.. THAT'S why FF get defensive.. it's implied that we SHOULD feel guilty or insecure about the way we feed our children.. you know, for alot of us, it is choice!

Ditto


I never felt guilty or insecure although I couldnt BF as I didnt have milk.

I feel offensive with comments like FF babies with become obese, more pron to sickness, etc.

My personal thoughts on this is that, when a bfvff debate comes up the people that formula feed and get very defensive/angry/upset/sarcastic are the ones that are obviously not happy and secure in their decision. If they were, they wouldn't get so upset. Same for every aspect of parenting. It shouldn't offend you if you if you are content with what you are doing.

I actually don't agree with this ..... I think that what upsets people, from either 'side' of the feeding coin is the implication that they are not doing their best for their baby and are therefore, by definition either selfish, inadequate or both Add into the equation that hormones make us extra sensitive to criticism and things get heated and personal all too easily

The funny thing is that I would have leapt into the fray willingly 20 odd years ago ... a BF 'warrier queen' - all engorged breasts and exuding milky self satisfaction .... and I mean no criticism to others with that description - it really IS how awfully militant I was about BF back then

I'm older now - and wiser (well hopefully ) and no longer driven by hormones .... less given to black and white thinking too - which tends to come with age in my experience. Now I honestly could not care less how anyone feeds their children as long as they are fed and I can discuss it without rancour or strong opinion until the cows come home (pun intended )

My kids are grown now - along with their peers - and it's easy to see that whether BF or FF, TW or BLW, Weaned early or late they've all come through it just fine and with absolutely no differences to each other at all ..... Although when your children are tiny it all seems so dreadfully important and arouses strong feelings and opinions, in the end it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever long term

 

[Lightworker]

With regards to question number 3, I BF but dont impose my views on others however, I understand why other BFers feel the need to try and convert FFers. To me it's like you are giving your LO the best nutrition and you just want every other LO to have the same, moreso when BFing is not popular.

 

[Lightworker]

With regards to question number 3, I BF but dont impose my views on others however, I understand why other BFers feel the need to try and convert FFers. To me it's like you are giving your LO the best nutrition and you just want every other LO to have the same, moreso when BFing is not popular.

 

[Nibblenic]

I have to say that also I have found this 'argument' soley on the internet. I have 6 close 'mummy friends' we all had babies at roughly same time. Some FF from the begining and some BF'd for 6-12 weeks I tried and made the decision to FF and one BF'd for over 12 months. So I think a really good selection. Non of us have ever judged eachother or even debated right or wrong nothing. It was just a matter of dicussiong convience of where we should have lunch and what our individual needs were for feeding our child.

As non of us cared how we fed our child jus that they were fed! Which really is all that should matter

I have to say one thing though. The Bffing mummies had far less sleep than the FF ones and were much more stressed as a direct result. One of my friends regrets BFing because she didnt enjoy te first 3 months of los life and found the pressure to continue emense even though she wasnt coping

1/Why is it that when it comes to the way we feed our babies we can't all talk happily? In real life we can. In RL no one really has conversations like they do on here where you can hide behind a screen and a user name.
there isnt a 'debate' section of real life. Judging peoples parenting has real term consquenses

2/WHy is it always a 'them' and 'us' situation?
Because some people are extreamly passionate about how the parent and have made very firn decsions and have deffinate views and beliefs they they want to jusify and defend or maybe even enlighten someone

3/Why do you think some BF mums try and change peoples minds?
I think they struggle to see the benifits of FF and because the NHS sells it as the FF is the second best option. As BFing is best and has a list of really good things they cant see that FFing can have positives aswell.

4/Why do you think some FF mums find this offensive?
I think some women especially initially after birth can feel overly emotional and like they are failing. When you are pregnant you have the 'this is how its going to be picture' But reality can be extreamly difficult. I think some people struggle to adjust to the difference between the plan they had and the reality they are faced with. And then when someone comes along as pokes a finger in a sore spot people are going to react. Add into that lack of sleep horones and no having and real life consquences of what ou say. Well it can get a little out of hand cant it

 

[aob1013]

p.s. i don't understand this "guilt" or "insecurity" when it comes to FF.. THAT'S why FF get defensive.. it's implied that we SHOULD feel guilty or insecure about the way we feed our children.. you know, for alot of us, it is choice!

Ditto


I never felt guilty or insecure although I couldnt BF as I didnt have milk.

I feel offensive with comments like FF babies with become obese, more pron to sickness, etc.

My personal thoughts on this is that, when a bfvff debate comes up the people that formula feed and get very defensive/angry/upset/sarcastic are the ones that are obviously not happy and secure in their decision. If they were, they wouldn't get so upset. Same for every aspect of parenting. It shouldn't offend you if you if you are content with what you are doing.

I actually don't agree with this ..... I think that what upsets people, from either 'side' of the feeding coin is the implication that they are not doing their best for their baby and are therefore, by definition either selfish, inadequate or both Add into the equation that hormones make us extra sensitive to criticism and things get heated and personal all too easily

The funny thing is that I would have leapt into the fray willingly 20 odd years ago ... a BF 'warrier queen' - all engorged breasts and exuding milky self satisfaction .... and I mean no criticism to others with that description - it really IS how awfully militant I was about BF back then

I'm older now - and wiser (well hopefully ) and no longer driven by hormones .... less given to black and white thinking too - which tends to come with age in my experience. Now I honestly could not care less how anyone feeds their children as long as they are fed and I can discuss it without rancour or strong opinion until the cows come home (pun intended )

My kids are grown now - along with their peers - and it's easy to see that whether BF or FF, TW or BLW, Weaned early or late they've all come through it just fine and with absolutely no differences to each other at all ..... Although when your children are tiny it all seems so dreadfully important and arouses strong feelings and opinions, in the end it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever long term

I did state they were my personal thoughts, and i still stand by them.

 

[Laura2919]

I formula fed Chloe and Jaycee and I am happy I did so.

 

[KrisKitten]

I have never known this argument in real life either, but only because people wouldnt dare be so rude to each other face to face. And that does work both ways imo.
I love breastfeeding, however I fully appreciate many women saw no appeal in it or tried but couldnt continue for what ever reason. I have no problem with that and it would be ridiculous to say I did, i have never look at a FF mother and baby and judged them badly for that but I do feel that many people IRL look at me and judge me badlyfor BFing. And not for the typical 'disgusting' argument but quite the opposite. The idea that because I BF i must look down on others and be a pompous git.
IRL people usually react to this by either steering clear or immediatley defending their own decision to FF, before I have even said a word. And online I feel that a lot of the time FF mums look for the judgement in a BFers post, because they expect it to be there.
And then on the flip side of the coin there are of course BF mums who are judgmental and overbearing.
What frustrates the hell out of me is why on earth does it matter? It is just more proof of people's ever lasting need to argue. Why can't a FF mum read a list of proven facts about the benefits of breastfeeding without declaring them offensive and judgmental just for being so? And why can't a BFing mum read a FFers reasoning for there process of thinking or the problems they faced without going 'oh well i faced that too and i managed' or 'i used to think that but i still did the right thing in the end ' (obviously these aren't universal but just steriotypes)
Half of the argument comes from people expecting there to be one and so looking for the offense. It mad. It just doesnt matter what other people decide to do.
And the irritating thing is it SHOULD be discussed and compared and experiences should be shared, its a big part of parenting in the beginning and so it is good to discuss it. But people can't do it without fear of offending. In general on this topic it seems there is NO single view point that someone won't be offended/annoyed by.
Breast is Best! - How dare you say i'm giving my child second best?
FF makes no difference - How dare you undermine the hardwork women put in and the scientific research done?
I don't mind either way - But you must have an opinion it's an important subject, don't sit on the fence!



/rant

 

[bathbabe]

1/Why is it that when it comes to the way we feed our babies we can't all talk happily?

because it isnt face to face people are more willing to insult people for not doing it 'their' way

2/WHy is it always a 'them' and 'us' situation?

same as above

3/Why do you think some BF mums try and change peoples minds?

because they believe they are doing the best by their child

4/Why do you think some FF mums find this offensive?

because they also believe they are doing best by their child

 

[jojo_b]

I have never known this argument in real life either, but only because people wouldnt dare be so rude to each other face to face. And that does work both ways imo.
I love breastfeeding, however I fully appreciate many women saw no appeal in it or tried but couldnt continue for what ever reason. I have no problem with that and it would be ridiculous to say I did, i have never look at a FF mother and baby and judged them badly for that but I do feel that many people IRL look at me and judge me badlyfor BFing. And not for the typical 'disgusting' argument but quite the opposite. The idea that because I BF i must look down on others

oh my god - i didn't realise this is how i felt, but you're right! i'm ashamed to admit but that IS how i feel! i went to a mum's and babies group and pretty much all of our LOs needed feeding at one time or another. i got Fin's bottle out and fed him and felt ashamed, like everyone was judging me, even though nobody was even looking. the girl next to me, who i'd been chatting to happily up to then, whipped her boob out and started feeding. immediately i thought that she wouldn't want to be friends with me because she was a "proper mum"...god how ridiculous this thought process was! i wish i wasn't so silly about it all

 

[KrisKitten]

I have never known this argument in real life either, but only because people wouldnt dare be so rude to each other face to face. And that does work both ways imo.
I love breastfeeding, however I fully appreciate many women saw no appeal in it or tried but couldnt continue for what ever reason. I have no problem with that and it would be ridiculous to say I did, i have never look at a FF mother and baby and judged them badly for that but I do feel that many people IRL look at me and judge me badlyfor BFing. And not for the typical 'disgusting' argument but quite the opposite. The idea that because I BF i must look down on others

oh my god - i didn't realise this is how i felt, but you're right! i'm ashamed to admit but that IS how i feel! i went to a mum's and babies group and pretty much all of our LOs needed feeding at one time or another. i got Fin's bottle out and fed him and felt ashamed, like everyone was judging me, even though nobody was even looking. the girl next to me, who i'd been chatting to happily up to then, whipped her boob out and started feeding. immediately i thought that she wouldn't want to be friends with me because she was a "proper mum"...god how ridiculous this thought process was! i wish i wasn't so silly about it all

It's not your fault hun
It's a POV people don't seem to realise, that BOTH sides can suffer from guilt. Just as BFers can make FFers feel guilty for stopping, FFers can make BFers feel bad for carrying on. I have felt ashamed admitting I BF to a FFer before, not because of the 'oh disgusting' thing but because I felt like i was a know-it-all just because of how i feed. Thats not right, noone should be ashamed either way for whatever reason
Noone wants to be judged for there parenting, whether it be as careless or as pompous. I stopped going to the young mums group because i was the only BFer there and all the other girls would do is defend thier decisions to FF with me. Tommy used to feed a lot back then so it was obvious i was BFing and they could not handle the idea that yeh i did it and yes i was proud of it (in so much as i'm not going to hide it) and felt it must be a direct insult to them.
IRL and on this forum I struggle to have an opinion on any feeding issue for fear of offending just because i BF. If a mum tried but couldn't she can post saying 'i know BFing has x,y & z benefits' but a mum who has managed to continue often gets shot down in flames for the same statement.
But yeah, i'm by no means having a go at FF mums here. Sometimes its good to see the other side of the coin though? xxx

 

[indy and lara]

1/Why is it that when it comes to the way we feed our babies we can't all talk happily?No idea

2/WHy is it always a 'them' and 'us' situation?Because people naturally follow into groups with people who are likeminded

3/Why do you think some BF mums try and change peoples minds?Because despite BF being the original way to feed your baby, many people still don't fully understand how it works or the benefits. I think it is a case of trying to raise awareness and encourage people to give it a go. Also, there are many myths around what happens when things go 'wrong' which could easily be addressed if people were properly knowledgeable of how it all works.

4/Why do you think some FF mums find this offensive?No one likes being told they are wrong and sometimes some BFers go at it like a bull in a china shop, rather than gently/ tactfully. Also, if someone has had to give up BFing and they wish that they still were than it naturally touches a raw nerve.

 

[caz81]

1/Why is it that when it comes to the way we feed our babies we can't all talk happily? I really dont think it is at all. I have never ever seen any upset about this irl, tbh amongst my friends no one really cares how each other feeds their baby. I also think that the vast majority of people on this forum also can discuss this sensibly, it is just 2 or 3 people that wind things up.

2/WHy is it always a 'them' and 'us' situation? Again, I have never seen this, and if I was not part of this forum then I would never have had any idea that such a situation existed. I think that some people are just rude and do not think before they type and this causes issues. Among my friends on this forum some of us have bf and some of us have ff and never once has it caused and issue or comment, both groups are equally supportive of the other. Again I just think it is a very very small minority of this forum that causes this.

3/Why do you think some BF mums try and change peoples minds? I have only ever seen 2 or 3 people do this, the majority of people respect the choices that people have made. Im all for giving the information if people ask for it but when someone says 'I have chosen to ff' challenging their decisions is just rude. I really dont get why people feel the need to comment on how other people bring their children up. to me its really no one elses business but the parents.

4/Why do you think some FF mums find this offensive? Because its really noone elses business how you bring your child up. I think that there are certain people on here who word things purposefully in a way that will annoy people and then say 'you are annoyed because you are not confident in your choices' which then annoys people even more! I am completley happy in my choices to ff as it was the only option for us as bf didnt work, im still going to find it offensive if someone says im feeding my baby rat poison though!

 

[AppleBlossom]

I BF'ed for 2 weeks, expressed for a further 2 weeks. I then switched to formula. I don't feel guilty about it. Why should I? I tried, I couldn't do it and it was either give her formula or leave her to starve. I still fed her. BM might be best but formula certainly isn't bad. G has got a fantastic immune system. Even better than mine and I have a pretty good immune system. And for her age, she is very advanced. She is 2.5 and she can count to 20, do the whole alphabet, knows the words to full nursery rhymes... her speech is far advanced for her age. She has been around children her age and a little older who are nowhere near as intelligent as she is. I refuse to believe that the way they are fed when they're young bears any reference to how clever they will be. I do understand why BFers try to get people to BF but what I hate is when some take it too far and push people, tell them that formula is such a terrible thing and that they are selfish for not BFing. I think the only thing, in this instance, that would make the parent selfish is if they chose not to feed their child at all

 

[Nic1107]

I'm only going to answer the last question, because I'm not going to try and pretend I know what someone in a different situation is thinking or feeling.

FFers often get annoyed- and occasionally irate- at the implication that they're less passionate about the health and well-being of their children, or they're ignorant, or they're poor naive souls whose big scary doctors cowed them and they weren't big enough to stand up for themselves. The implications may not be meant, but of course someone is going to take it that way when their commitment to their children is possibly being questioned.

And about that bit about 'being confident in your choice'- it's a narrow section people are looking at here and standing by it stubbornly may well be missing the chance to understand and reach out to the woman you're purportedly trying to 'bridge the gap' with.

If you'll notice, the newcomers getting really entrenched in the arguments and feeling really defensive are the ones who did chose to BF and weren't able to. ffs think about it- if FF wasn't their choice, why would anyone suggest they should be comfortable with it?! If they feel they're not doing the best they'd like to for their child, why on earth would "Well if you are doing what you feel is best, why get defensive?" a reasonable argument?!

And FFers and BFers really can talk about the issues surrounding feeding- including the politics- together, with nothing but love, support and understanding; you just have to dig a little deeper. There's a great group of ladies here in one the the parenting groups who does just that all the time.