Inside Death Row-Did you watch? -Opinions.

[Scottish mum]

I have to add that I agree that offenders do need support to get back in society I just think what we have at the moment is not working.

 

[fantastica]

I don't think the current support works either because it isn't adequate, and there isn't enough out there working on prevention.

We have so many disaffected people in society, people growing up in poverty, people with no education and little desire to get any. This all needs changing. Of course poverty etc. isn't the only cause of crime, but i'm sure if more work was gone into those areas then crime would fall. If mental health care was more effective, and if prisoners were not only given a couple of (half the time useless) courses, but things relevant for when they come out, help finding a new life - maybe even away from where they are from - and a job, then i'm sure re-offending would lessen. The more you alienate people from the society, the more they will fight it. Saying that, half of this is irrelevant when talking about the death penalty because that obviously concerns crimes where you are away for life.

But some of these people have nothing when they go in and even less when they come out.

 

[Scottish mum]

your right fantastica we have went off track! Oops that's what a good old debate is about!

 

[Tasha]

Ok ladies did you know that alot of these stats are miniplated so that the public can feel slight confidence with our justice system.

I see it day in day out and I'm relaying back to you what these offenders tell me and my colleagues and what I see on a daily basis not what a study note said as your aware stats change on a daily basis! I'm telling you from experiences not from stats that may or may not be up to date or 100% correct! Again all I'm saying is I think support doesn't work for most offenders! Please remember reading about a topic and actually living it is completely different!!

But the statistics say what we are doing is not working and the countries that are, are the ones that are less harsh and focus on rehablitation, so no it doesnt give confidence in our system.

You are not living it, you are working so therefore seeing it, living it would be you being a prison inmate.

I know your user name suggests you live in the UK, but do you actually work in the US or any where with the death penalty, and worked with those on death row or have you ever done? Because otherwise you, just like we, are just reading.

 

[Scottish mum]

No if you read my posts I'm from the uk and only speak about my experiences here other countries will be different so I can't comment on that or stats that have nothing to do with the uk

 

[Scottish mum]

Another thing is you don't know my back ground so you can't say I have not lived it!

 

[Tasha]

No if you read my posts I'm from the uk and only speak about my experiences here other countries will be different so I can't comment on that or stats that have nothing to do with the uk

That is the stats Nats has been talking about, if you compare the UK to other countries that are less harsh and offer better rehablitation then there is a lower amount of crimes commited after leaving prison, in the less harsh countries than the UK.

 

[Scottish mum]

I'm only talking about my experiences here in the uk sorry if I have read the thread wrong I cannot comment on other countries! I was talking about the uks justice system!

 

[Tasha]

Another thing is you don't know my back ground so you can't say I have not lived it!

Okay well I apologise for that, through out this thread you talk in a work capacity only and therefore I didnt know you had been a prisoner nor that you had been on death row. So for the mix up I apologise.

I just think the line about reading it and living it are fair enough if you had been sharing your pespective as an ex-offender but as you only shared the professional capcity it seemed to say that other peoples opinions were not as valid purely because they dont work with offenders or what ever.

I would be very interested to see any data you have that shows that rehabilitation doesnt work for *most* offenders.

 

[Scottish mum]

Can I ask what you have read and why you feel so strongly about rehabilitation!

Rehabilitation is something that should not be taken lightly and only works for thoes who really want to help themselves!

It doesn't work for everybody! Especially people who have committed serious crimes such as murder! Why should they even be offerded this!! ( going back to the topic) I think alot of what is being said is naive. Unless you have experience about what we are discussing?

 

[Tasha]

Can I ask what you have read and why you feel so strongly about rehabilitation!

Rehabilitation is something that should not be taken lightly and only works for thoes who really want to help themselves!

It doesn't work for everybody! Especially people who have committed serious crimes such as murder! Why should they even be offerded this!! ( going back to the topic) I think alot of what is being said is naive. Unless you have experience about what we are discussing?

Firstly do you have any data to support your claims that rehabilitation doesnt work for *most* offenders? Most is quite a sweeping statement to make IMO, and therefore data would be good.

Rehabilitation in the UK isnt up to scratch in the prisons and also the support outside of prison can be awful. All my friends that have been to prison have been left homeless after prison, they come out and have very little support, they of course have their probation officer but they are more often than not over worked and dont have time to offer real support.

It doesnt work for everyone, and I am not for a minute suggesting that all (or possibly any) murderers should be rehablitated but as people were talking about rehabilitation in general terms, I discussed that.

I have read data on how low reoffending is compared to ours. Norway for isntance is known to be really gentle, gentle approach in prison and focus on rehabilitation and yet they have the lowest reoffending rates in the whole of Europe. 20% reoffend within TWO years in Norway, compared to our 27% within ONE year.

Dont get me wrong there will always be people that rehabilation isnt suitable for, there will always be the need for high security prisons but I do believe that we need to rethink our focus for prisons in the UK. Making people better citizens can only benefit the country IMO.

Any way that was again more general but it fits in with the subject because the death penalty is as harsh as punishment comes and yet it doesnt act as a deterent.

 

[Natsku]

My parents both work in prisons (in the UK) and my lecturer did actually live it, he went into prison (over here) as a (voluntary) inmate and lived it for his research.

Here they do a lot to help inmates after they are released, to find them housing, jobs etc. While they are prison they do their best to make sure that prisoners aren't isolated from society as that is one of the biggest hinderences to rehabilitation (they say that keeping a constant connection to someone on the outside, through phone calls and visits etc and weekend leaves when they are eligible, is one of the most important things in helping a prisoner rehabilitate)

I think some murderers can be rehabilitated, say if it was a crime of passion or committed heavily under the influence, but I am doubtful if those that commit premeditated murder can be rehabilitated and if they can't they should remain in prison indefinitely which is possible here.

 

[Scottish mum]

Again I feel our justice system is crap however I do agree there should be some support for them if you read my previous posts you will see that! Our country doesn't have the facilities to be able to offer the support most need your right with that statement and I will admit I am synical I work in 4 areas where I deal with the same people day in day out and support/ jail time has not changed them and they are reoffending! There are people for eg like you mentioned who commit crimes of passion and they maybe have not been in any trouble it may work for them but that's few and far between!

I agree most countries run much better than the uk but my point is I'm feel that you need to get yourselves out there and speak to your local forces and officers /court officers they will tell you how much support works for thoes offending and
reoffending at the moment!

Yes we do need to change our ways but like I said in one of my last posts it probably won't happen in my life time!!

 

[Scottish mum]

If you have a look at www.justice.gov.uk it shows there has been an increase in reoffending! However stats are manipulated! Forces do this because they want to show they have a grip on things!

As for your parents who both work in the prison service they will be able to tell you how much support these people get whilst in jail and I'm sure they will tell you the privileges these people get too!

 

[Natsku]

Looking at the reoffending statistics there and they have fallen since 2000, something good is happening at least.

 

[Scottish mum]

Yes your right but reoffending is up 2011! I was suspect that in this case the writing is not on the wall and stats can be manipulated. You and I both know that there are issues with our justice system otherwise we wouldn't be answering to this thread!

 

[Natsku]

They have gone up a small amount in the last year but we can't tell yet if its a trend going up or not, thats why you look at longer time periods that one year.
There are definitely issues with the criminal justice system in the UK but we seem to have opposite issues - you think the system is not harsh enough and I think the system is too harsh but I base my opinion on statistics comparing harsher systems to less harsh systems and also to the experience of the country I live in that changed from an extremely harsh system to an extremely gentle system with very positive results. The system CAN be changed but the general public needs to support that change for it to happen and sadly it seems that the general public are more of the opinion that the criminal justice system needs to be harsher so I agree with you that it probably won't change in our lifetimes but we can hope that maybe it will change in our childrens' lifetimes.

 

[Scottish mum]

Yes I agree with this! I think we have come to the same conclusion. Just we have different views getting there!

 

[lhancock90]

Scottishmum i'm confused, do you work in prisons or have you been in one?

 

[Tasha]

IF we are starting to see an upward trend of reoffending (we dont know yet because once is not enough to be sure if it continue the pattern) it will be because funding has been cut in prisons so the focus on rehabilitation will lessen, and also funding for support outside of prison will of reduced plus funding for measures that will prevent young people falling into crime wont be there. So if anything the statistics that were provided are proving that prevention, rehabilitation and support are absolutely what is needed, not harsher times in prison.

It could also be there is no pattern, and it is simply the riots across the country pushed up the numbers of reoffending.

I would be interested to see any data, any one has about rehabilitation not working for most people.