Is it wrong for people who work with children to smoke?

[Liesje]

Wow there's such a thing as 3rd hand smoke now?
Are people this careful with dry cleaning, plastics, gas stoves, environmental pollution, hand sanitizers, shampoos, driving in cars with the windows up, etc?

 

[freckleonear]

Wow there's such a thing as 3rd hand smoke now?
Are people this careful with dry cleaning, plastics, gas stoves, environmental pollution, hand sanitizers, shampoos, driving in cars with the windows up, etc?

Yes actually I am. I avoid plastics as much as possible and only use natural, non-toxic cleaning products and toiletries. I agree that there are a lot of things that can cause health problems in our modern environment, but that doesn't mean we should just give up trying to avoid them and accept the inevitable.

 

[summer rain]

Wow there's such a thing as 3rd hand smoke now?
Are people this careful with dry cleaning, plastics, gas stoves, environmental pollution, hand sanitizers, shampoos, driving in cars with the windows up, etc?

Yes actually I am. I avoid plastics as much as possible and only use natural, non-toxic cleaning products and toiletries. I agree that there are a lot of things that can cause health problems in our modern environment, but that doesn't mean we should just give up trying to avoid them and accept the inevitable.

Same here. I've actually relaxed a bit when it comes to only using completely natural toiletries and cleaning products because I live in an extremely hard water area and none of the natural products quite cut it. Also natural based laundry products and shampoos make me itch whereas bizzarely the 'regular' ones do not. However I don't use harsh acid or bleach-based cleaners and the only bleach containing product I have is a powder so I can very carefully control where it goes and I use it maybe once every three months. I also don't use air fresheners, scented candles and I don't wear perfume myself because they are really the worst of the worst both for straight up pollution and also for having neurotoxic ingredients. The gas we have here, when properly ventilated is completely harmless. I never get anything dry cleaned and I don't buy anything that needs it. Don't use hand sanitiser. Toiletries I use the bare minimum amount of product possible. Also avoid plastics as much as possible. Avoiding 3rd hand smoke is just another step in trying to avoid pollutants that could harm the kids xx

 

[xsadiex]

Wow there's such a thing as 3rd hand smoke now?
Are people this careful with dry cleaning, plastics, gas stoves, environmental pollution, hand sanitizers, shampoos, driving in cars with the windows up, etc?

I use natural, organic products. I'd rather lessen the amount of crap I come in contact with.

 

[steph.]

I hate smoking with a passion and think it should be banned full-stop as its something that affects everyone around you. Its like peeing in a pool! I wouldnt like for anyone whos in close contact with my daughter to be a smoker, so yes its wrong. To think when i was a kid in italy, our school bus driver would chain smoke while driving with a bus load of kids!

 

[AP]

When i had my last LO, my room over looked the car park. I watched one of the paedatricians (that does the baby checks, sees the babies in scbu etc) go AND SIT IN HIS CAR AT REGULAR INTERVALS AND SMOKE. tHATS WRONG IMO.

See I agree, I seen one or two neonatal nurses go out for cig breaks and I really did think this was wrong.

 

[Sarahkka]

frecklonear kind of summed it up for me.
And yes, of course there is such a thing as "thirdhand smoke". It's been a documented health risk for years. So much so that I also feel rather shocked that anyone working near at risk children and patients would not be under fairly strict protocols about it, actually.
As for all the other harmful substances, I look at the scientific evidence and make a general risk assessment about each one. As I educate myself and make my choices about how I feel about each risk, I adjust my behaviour accordingly. This is reflected in everything from my consumer habits to who I vote for to political advocacy movements I might get involved in to address my particular concern with a harmful substance.
It doesn't take a huge amount of effort to be aware and educated. And that doesn't mean I am paranoid and trying to raise my kids in a bubble, either.

 

[PepsiChic]

I dont agree with it at all. Its totally unprofessional and puts children at risk.

I dont smoke, my husband doesnt, and we wont allow the in-laws near him till they have throughly washed their hands and changed their clothes after a cigarette.

so why would i want any kind of person handling the most precious thing to me if they are going to put my child at risk? If i dont allow family, then theres no way in hell id let a stranger do so regardless of their profession.

And if I suspected someone had smoked and was about to deal with my child I would make it very clear I want someone else to see to him.

 

[_simo_]

I am a smoker, a teacher and an exclusive breastfeeder...and although not something I am proud of, I was told by several doctors and la leche league that smoking and breastfeeding is much preferable to formula feeding. Just a thought...

 

[freckleonear]

I am a smoker, a teacher and an exclusive breastfeeder...and although not something I am proud of, I was told by several doctors and la leche league that smoking and breastfeeding is much preferable to formula feeding. Just a thought...

That's correct, and it's your decision to make for your child. It's when smoking affects other children and their parents have no control over it that I object.

 

[vaniilla]

I do think it's wrong, it is also incomparable to other things, smoking is a lifestyle choice with no benefits and only negatives, if people chose that road it's their choice but it should not be allowed to affect the health of those that are unable to have a say, i.e children in their care, when someone looks after your child you want their carer and environment to be the best possible one for your child and second hand smoke is not.


I really hate how taboo smoking is, smokers get so defensive when it's the biggest killer and cause of disease in the UK yet anyone would think we're discussing what colour shoes people should wear, there seems to be this attitude of it wont happen to me yet half of all smokers will die as a result of it, why on earth would I want to risk any of it getting on my child??

 

[Liesje]

I am a smoker, a teacher and an exclusive breastfeeder...and although not something I am proud of, I was told by several doctors and la leche league that smoking and breastfeeding is much preferable to formula feeding. Just a thought...

That's true. I'm from a family full of doctors and when I asked them about this, they all said that even this 3rd, 4th, 5th hand smoking stuff is ridiculous, there is almost no way for these "evil particles" to become airborne (again), let alone enter the lungs, and if they did, in such quanitites to cause harm to other people. It's just that people LOVE to hate smokers because it's a politically correct way to be able to despise an entire group of people they dont know and make smoking out to be way worse than it is. Smoking isn't HEALTHY, but even being bi-polar doubles the risk of lung cancer than that of smoking.

 

[vaniilla]

I am a smoker, a teacher and an exclusive breastfeeder...and although not something I am proud of, I was told by several doctors and la leche league that smoking and breastfeeding is much preferable to formula feeding. Just a thought...

That's true. I'm from a family full of doctors and when I asked them about this, they all said that even this 3rd, 4th, 5th hand smoking stuff is ridiculous, there is almost no way for these "evil particles" to become airborne (again), let alone enter the lungs, and if they did, in such quanitites to cause harm to other people. It's just that people LOVE to hate smokers because it's a politically correct way to be able to despise an entire group of people they dont know and make smoking out to be way worse than it is. Smoking isn't HEALTHY, but even being bi-polar doubles the risk of lung cancer than that of smoking.

sorry but the bolded bit makes no sense, I don't see how you could make smoking any better or worse than it is - its a drug that kills, why should people have to sugar coat it? secondly bi polar is not something that people have through choice so it's not the same thing.

 

[Sarahkka]

I am a smoker, a teacher and an exclusive breastfeeder...and although not something I am proud of, I was told by several doctors and la leche league that smoking and breastfeeding is much preferable to formula feeding. Just a thought...

That's true. I'm from a family full of doctors and when I asked them about this, they all said that even this 3rd, 4th, 5th hand smoking stuff is ridiculous, there is almost no way for these "evil particles" to become airborne (again), let alone enter the lungs, and if they did, in such quanitites to cause harm to other people. It's just that people LOVE to hate smokers because it's a politically correct way to be able to despise an entire group of people they dont know and make smoking out to be way worse than it is. Smoking isn't HEALTHY, but even being bi-polar doubles the risk of lung cancer than that of smoking.

Liesje, I'm surprised that your family full of doctors is not more aware of this. It's a well-researched, documented health risk and is a particular concern for babies and toddlers. From the Canadian Lung Association"s site:

What is third-hand smoke?
Third-hand smoke is a new name for an old problem – the toxic chemicals in smoke that stick around even after the smoker has put out the cigarette, cigar, or pipe. Third-hand smoke gets trapped in hair, skin, fabric, carpet, furniture, and toys. It builds up over time. Each time someone smokes, more smoke gets trapped in the fabric, furniture, walls, and other things around them. The chemicals from the trapped smoke pollute the air and get into people's lungs and bodies.

If you are in a room or car where people usually smoke, even if they aren't smoking right then, you are exposed to third-hand smoke. This means you are exposed to toxic chemicals like lead and arsenic.

Third-hand smoke also gets into household dust, which babies swallow when they put their hands in their mouths.1 Babies take in more third-hand smoke chemicals because they breathe more quickly and because they spend more time on the floor. Babies can take in 20 times more third-hand smoke than adults.2

And an even more in-depth article on the study that helped coin the term:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2009/01/06/smoking-third.html

As for smoking not being as serious a risk to lung cancer as "being bi-polar" (???), um, well, to start with - smoking is a choice you make that massively increases your risk of all sorts of serious diseases, including lung cancer. You don't choose to be bi-polar. Still trying to figure out how a mental illness would increase your risk of lung cancer?

 

[Liesje]

I am a smoker, a teacher and an exclusive breastfeeder...and although not something I am proud of, I was told by several doctors and la leche league that smoking and breastfeeding is much preferable to formula feeding. Just a thought...

That's true. I'm from a family full of doctors and when I asked them about this, they all said that even this 3rd, 4th, 5th hand smoking stuff is ridiculous, there is almost no way for these "evil particles" to become airborne (again), let alone enter the lungs, and if they did, in such quanitites to cause harm to other people. It's just that people LOVE to hate smokers because it's a politically correct way to be able to despise an entire group of people they dont know and make smoking out to be way worse than it is. Smoking isn't HEALTHY, but even being bi-polar doubles the risk of lung cancer than that of smoking.

sorry but the bolded bit makes no sense, I don't see how you could make smoking any better or worse than it is - its a drug that kills, why should people have to sugar coat it? secondly bi polar is not something that people have through choice so it's not the same thing.

Exactly. Bi-polar disorder is a genetic predisposition, smoking is a choice. If someone can be physiologically predisposed to be twice as likely to get lung cancer anyway, how bad could smoking possibly be?
No one looks at people who make the choice to live in older houses out to be garbage human beings even though the exact same carcinogens are present in older homes (and the same likelihood of ingestion or transportation as 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th hand smoking) so why do people despise smokers so much? If it's so bad, don't do it (I don't) but why hate others or insinuate that they have no business being around children just because people choose to be sheep and buy into all of the scaremongering?

 

[Sarahkka]

I am still not getting that you have made any point at all. Smoking is 100% a lifestyle choice that is proven to cause enormous health risks to both the individual indulging in it and to the non-smoking people exposed to the smoke. This isn't scaremongering, this is science.
Smoker hate happens because the smoker is imposing their chosen risk onto others. But I have yet to see any sort of law against smoking that I would consider to be unreasonable, considering that we find more serious risks from this behaviour as our scientific research and understanding of it deepens.
I agree with you that there are many things in our daily lives that pose health risks, but as we become more aware of those things, we are trying to limit our exposure there, as well. I am afraid that I do not agree with your analogy of living in an older home as being a lifestyle choice that offers the same (or anywhere near the same) toxic exposure risk that smoking does.
I would also suggest that many people have a very limited choice about where they live due to financial constraints, whereas every single smoker has a choice about lighting up.

 

[Liesje]

I'm talking about scaremongering of "3rd hand smoking". They've already banned smoking in public places indoors and out, in your own car, under "two umbrellas touching" (how insane is that one?), etc. when will the obsession stop? We've gone way beyond "don't like it, don't do it". We've gone from one "lifestyle choice" imposing their beliefs on others (smokers) to the other extreme, non-smokers imposing THEIR lifestyle on smokers. Not everyone cres how long they live, some people just want to enjoy the time they are here.

 

[Sarahkka]

I'm not an extreme anti-smoker.
I have never heard of the umbrella one, but none of the other bans seem even remotely unreasonable to me. Smoking harms. It does no good, just harm. So no, a smoker should not be able to enjoy their right to smoke over my right not to.
I have no problem with people who chew tobacco (as long as they aren't spitting all over the place). Feel free to indulge in that activity as it doesn't impose an immediate risk of exposure to me or my family.
I don't think this is anywhere near an "obsession". I think this is public safety legislation based on scientific research and risk assessment.

 

[PepsiChic]

I'm talking about scaremongering of "3rd hand smoking". They've already banned smoking in public places indoors and out, in your own car, under "two umbrellas touching" (how insane is that one?), etc. when will the obsession stop? We've gone way beyond "don't like it, don't do it". We've gone from one "lifestyle choice" imposing their beliefs on others (smokers) to the other extreme, non-smokers imposing THEIR lifestyle on smokers. Not everyone cres how long they live, some people just want to enjoy the time they are here.

And whiles its great and dandy for them not to care about THEIR lifes and how long THEY live for and the affects smoking does to THEM...this thread is about what it does to OTHERS. People who choose NOT to put that risk in their lifes but yet are suppose to put up with other people forcing it on them.

I dont want smoke, 2nd or 3rd hand around my son, he should have a choice.

 

[Baby France]

Liesje I don't get your point?

Its a proven fact that people die from smoking and from 2nd hand smoke. Our NHS spends millions every year trying to cure these people. Some of whom may have never smoked in their entire life, but due to whatever reasons are now suffering.

Why are people wrong for not wanting their child to be subjected to someone who has been smoking? How is it scaremongering?

I work with young people and I no longer smoke. We're not allowed to smoke during breaks either. Neither are we allowed to smoke on the stations.

What people do in their own time, in their own homes is fine by me. If they are happy to smoke, then let them smoke.

But please don't make out I am being a sheep or falling for scaremongering, purely because I do not want smokers breath or clothes all over my child. Someone who I pay to work with my child?